The Jordan Peterson thread

Leonard D Neubache

Owl
Gold Member
How did anyone, and I mean anyone, ever listen to Peterson and take him seriously?
...
Whoa...

well...

that's a huge thing...

to listen...

I mean...

there's an immense spectrum there...

you know...

to listen...

someone might say...

I listened...

you know...

to the, uhhh...

lecture...

and someone else might take that...

to... mean...

they were paying attention...

and that they...

understood...

the, uhh, content...

And because of that...

umm... assumption...

the dialogue is...

as you could imagine...

fundamentally... uhh...

broken.


---

Ge
well soon, Jordan.
 

monsquid

Kingfisher
I don't hate him or blame him. He is not perfect and I don't think he ever claimed to be.

The public embraced him and made him what he is. We are all guilty of participating in his dramatic rise to status beyond just a sleepy college professor. With that said, once he became famous he started believing in his own myth. Living in the spot light and having to produce to maintain the image that was so profitable and attention grabbing was inconsistent with his true self. When you try to maintain two lives you inevitably break down.

He is nothing more than an elite professor who lives in theoretical mental masturbation. We, on the other hand, have bills to pay, real world to contend with, and the complexities of day to day interactions that don't fit neatly into his academic descriptions.
 

911

Peacock
Gold Member
Drs don't prescribe propofol to help normal people sleep either. Rich, famous people don't get the same treatment we do. If he told his Dr he was going on a speaking tour and wasn't sure when he could get back for another appointment and would be in countries where even filling the script may be an issue, then he easily could've been overprescribed with the assumption that he'd only take what was needed to get by until he could refill. And when they're right in front of you...

Benzos can be weird. Often the first dose knocks you back but redosing much higher after doesn't give the same feeling. Someone can be staggering and slurring and not even notice how gone they are. Easy to overdo without noticing even if you know the risks, and that dose becomes the new baseline soon enough.


Not a psychiatrist, psychologist. Doesn't prescribe drugs.
Psychology has been pharma-driven for several decades now, "take your pills!" is one of Jordan Peterson's mantras, right up there with "wash your penis!". Any practicing psychologist has had a large proportion of regular patients on all sorts of drugs, they have a professional grounding on the pharma conrnicopia that gets very liberally prescribed.
 

Handsome Creepy Eel

Owl
Gold Member
Not sure what to say about Jordan Peterson's public appearances and everything that he's done and been through the last few years, but I've just read the 12 Rules for Life and I can say that it's a really great book. Very supportive of our civilization and heritage, practical, balanced, insightful, and heartwarming without straying into feel-good bullshit. If you just read this book and nothing else, you'd never call Jordan Peterson anti-Christian or gatekeeping in any way.
 

NoMoreTO

Pelican
Not sure what to say about Jordan Peterson's public appearances and everything that he's done and been through the last few years, but I've just read the 12 Rules for Life and I can say that it's a really great book. Very supportive of our civilization and heritage, practical, balanced, insightful, and heartwarming without straying into feel-good bullshit. If you just read this book and nothing else, you'd never call Jordan Peterson anti-Christian or gatekeeping in any way.
I've read this book. The book doesn't have to be anti-Christian to be against God. Simple lack of belief puts it into the body of the antichrist. He does not invoke God or put God as your support in life.

Since you are fresh on it, I would check out Vox Days critique of the book as a counterbalnce.

The book is a decent read, I can agree to that. The chapter on childcare was particularly good. He is very open in the book about some of the difficult moments in his life. I listened to the audio book almost 2 years ago now when it first came up, and JBP cried in a couple of places.
 

Handsome Creepy Eel

Owl
Gold Member
I appreciate that thought, since it didn't occur to me that something can still be that subtly subversive (will reread the book with fresh eyes). However, as far as critiques go, I could never take an egomaniacal satanist's opinion on anything seriously, let alone on what was pro or anti-Christian.
 

NoMoreTO

Pelican
I appreciate that thought, since it didn't occur to me that something can still be that subtly subversive (will reread the book with fresh eyes). However, as far as critiques go, I could never take an egomaniacal satanist's opinion on anything seriously, let alone on what was pro or anti-Christian.
Freemasonry is said to be heretical, does it deny the existence of God? - No. What it does is offer something other than Christianity as a solution in life, whether that is work ethic, the group itself, charity, family etc. It can acknowledge Christianity as part of our roots, talk about the stories, but if it is offering something else up, just be aware of that. Vox days critique is good, if a little harsh.

While it doesn't seem like JBP is anti Christian, and in some ways has lead many back to curiousity about Christian roots, to me he seems to be part of the Anti Christ. How does a man who can't say whether he believes in God, study the book of Genesis in from of 1,000s of people, and much more online, without being able to say he believes in God, or more specifically is a Christian? Similar situation regarding the debates with Sam Harris. Here we have a guy, debating an atheist on the existence of God, who doesn't believe in God, or can't say it in a simple clear way. These are the 2 things I find most anti Christian and subversive about JBP, when he steps inside the roles which only Christians should be filling.

When I wasn't practicing , and had only an intellectual interest, and a vague back of the mind faith, I would never enter into a debate in front of 1000s about the existence of God. To his credit, he just views them as 'conversations'.
 
I don't hate him or blame him. He is not perfect and I don't think he ever claimed to be.

The public embraced him and made him what he is. We are all guilty of participating in his dramatic rise to status beyond just a sleepy college professor. With that said, once he became famous he started believing in his own myth. Living in the spot light and having to produce to maintain the image that was so profitable and attention grabbing was inconsistent with his true self. When you try to maintain two lives you inevitably break down.

He is nothing more than an elite professor who lives in theoretical mental masturbation. We, on the other hand, have bills to pay, real world to contend with, and the complexities of day to day interactions that don't fit neatly into his academic descriptions.
He sort of accidentally stumbled onto fame when he spoke against pronoun dictatorship. A lot of people felt represented by this obscure professor who seemed to go against the academic tide and he became a celebrity and a "conservative icon". What do you do when suddenly people praise you as an icon? 1) You keep giving them more of what they're asking for 2) You look for a way to make a living out of it. Suddenly Jordan B Peterson was the go-to guy on everything from how to live your life to culture wars. Millions of "orphaned" young men around the world looked up to them as the father figure they felt they lacked, and he kept the gravy train coming.

It will be interesting to see if he can pull this one off (providing he makes a full recovery). It's hard to sell yourself as a lifestyle guru after you've had a total meltdown. The hitting rock bottom and rising from your ashes story arc is actually one of the musts for any self-respecting guru, but that must happen before "enlightment", not after. If you become a total mess after you've become a guru, it devaluates your advice. What authority do you have to tell others how to live their lives when your own lif is an absolute mess and you had to be put in an induced coma because you were too far gone?
 

monsquid

Kingfisher
He sort of accidentally stumbled onto fame when he spoke against pronoun dictatorship. A lot of people felt represented by this obscure professor who seemed to go against the academic tide and he became a celebrity and a "conservative icon". What do you do when suddenly people praise you as an icon? 1) You keep giving them more of what they're asking for 2) You look for a way to make a living out of it. Suddenly Jordan B Peterson was the go-to guy on everything from how to live your life to culture wars. Millions of "orphaned" young men around the world looked up to them as the father figure they felt they lacked, and he kept the gravy train coming.

It will be interesting to see if he can pull this one off (providing he makes a full recovery). It's hard to sell yourself as a lifestyle guru after you've had a total meltdown. The hitting rock bottom and rising from your ashes story arc is actually one of the musts for any self-respecting guru, but that must happen before "enlightment", not after. If you become a total mess after you've become a guru, it devaluates your advice. What authority do you have to tell others how to live their lives when your own lif is an absolute mess and you had to be put in an induced coma because you were too far gone?
It seems like he is honestly trying to address his demons. I would also say that he has not been publicizing his battle with mental illness for views, unlike his daughter.

What gets me is his weird obsessions with communism and soviet history/culture. I find it very strange that he went to Russia of all places for treatment. Russia? Really? With all the money and access he has to medicine he goes to Russia and shady EE countries for treatment?
 
It seems like he is honestly trying to address his demons. I would also say that he has not been publicizing his battle with mental illness for views, unlike his daughter.

What gets me is his weird obsessions with communism and soviet history/culture. I find it very strange that he went to Russia of all places for treatment. Russia? Really? With all the money and access he has to medicine he goes to Russia and shady EE countries for treatment?
Seems to me that Russia would be the only country to try some alternative treatment that the medical orthodoxy in typical western states wouldn't dare attempt
 

911

Peacock
Gold Member
It's also a kind of political and spiritual exile of sorts, going to a place that's the current antithesis to western atheistic materialism which has brought about his addiction and mental problems.
 
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