The Jordan Peterson thread

Lawrence87

Kingfisher
Orthodox
A lot of word salad games to hide the fact that he has nothing interesting to say? Sounds about right.
Well it depends on what exactly you mean by right. No, I mean really. Because it's not exactly clear to me what right is, or if it is even possible to be right about something. And then you have right as in left and right, and what happens if you keep going right? Well eventually you end up back where you started which is the same thing as going left.
 

Letsgokazakhstan

 
Banned
Orthodox
I can't listen to these intellectuals talking about how the reaction to the pandemic was a 'mistake'...

Really? You're so intelligent, see all the inconsistencies and BS.... but it was all down to over-reaction and incompetence??

Riiight....

I think half these guys are just afraid of being labelled 'conspiracy theorists'...

They can't connect the dots but not see the truth.
 

Guriko

Kingfisher
Orthodox Inquirer
Gold Member
I can't listen to these intellectuals talking about how the reaction to the pandemic was a 'mistake'...

Really? You're so intelligent, see all the inconsistencies and BS.... but it was all down to over-reaction and incompetence??

Riiight....

I think half these guys are just afraid of being labelled 'conspiracy theorists'...

They can't connect the dots but not see the truth.

They are neither scientists nor intellectuals.

Paid technicians to produce studies that will satisfy their masters wishes.

Glorified eggheads who at one time in their careers decided to start purposefully avoiding having original thoughts of their own in fear of losing earthly riches/power/fame/glory.

After you read a couple of biographies of scientists/philosophers you come to realise that 'science' was never an upward 'democracy-what-is-good-for-all' slope as much as it had to be dragged forward, screaming and crawling. Many a times necessary by force.

Remember, physicians used to heal with skull trepanations, leeches, cocaine addictions with heroine and etc..

Real science was always done on the fringes, far away from the glossy ivory 'academia'.
 

C-Note

Hummingbird
Other Christian
Gold Member
I know a lot of Christians were celebrating Jordan Peterson defending the Bible on Joe Rogan's podcast, but I'll be honest, his whole talk about Christianity sounded like mambo jumbo to me.
I thought it was interesting his explanation about how the Crucifixion mirrored the time under Moses when he placed the serpent on the pole and the Israelites were ordered to file past and look at it. According to Peterson, it is a well-known psychological technique to help people conquer a fear or phobia by having them confront the object of their fear in some way like that, in this case (crucifixion) the fear of death and mortality. I had never heard it explained like that.

Anyway, from what I understand a common subject with biblical scholars is extrapolating and explaining the events in the Old Testament that are seen as foreshadowing and metaphors for what would occur in the New Testament. Abraham being ordered to sacrifice his son is one of the most famous, but just as with the serpent on a pole, it's not the only one, by far.
 

TooFineAPoint

Ostrich
Protestant
Word salad is too often improperly used here.

What that term really skewers is when someone who is not a thinker uses vague and impenetrable words (or a mix of words that when mixed become so) in order to appear intelligent.

What Jordan does is called thinking out loud. I mean, I'm not saying you have to like the guy or claiming that everything he says is gold, but if you can't tell that it's earnest then I don't know what to say.

Some of us like more complexity than others. I can't watch mainstream Hollywood (not because it is Satanic) but because it aims for the absolute lowest common denominator. While many men are mad that Hollywood "ruined" their superhero or fantasy or sci-fi movies, I wonder why grown men would ever want to watch such infantile crap in the first place. And on the flip side most of the films and books I like would put you guys to sleep.

But again, there is a big difference between a faker spouting nonsense and a guy attempting to coalesce a complex idea into a rapid communication.
 

Barefaced

Sparrow
Other Christian
Word salad is too often improperly used here.

What that term really skewers is when someone who is not a thinker uses vague and impenetrable words (or a mix of words that when mixed become so) in order to appear intelligent.

What Jordan does is called thinking out loud. I mean, I'm not saying you have to like the guy or claiming that everything he says is gold, but if you can't tell that it's earnest then I don't know what to say.

Some of us like more complexity than others. I can't watch mainstream Hollywood (not because it is Satanic) but because it aims for the absolute lowest common denominator. While many men are mad that Hollywood "ruined" their superhero or fantasy or sci-fi movies, I wonder why grown men would ever want to watch such infantile crap in the first place. And on the flip side most of the films and books I like would put you guys to sleep.

But again, there is a big difference between a faker spouting nonsense and a guy attempting to coalesce a complex idea into a rapid communication.
Somehow he does both. More trouble than he’s worth, in my opinion.
 

Purgatorian

 
Banned
Trad Catholic
They are neither scientists nor intellectuals.

Paid technicians to produce studies that will satisfy their masters wishes.

Glorified eggheads who at one time in their careers decided to start purposefully avoiding having original thoughts of their own in fear of losing earthly riches/power/fame/glory.

After you read a couple of biographies of scientists/philosophers you come to realise that 'science' was never an upward 'democracy-what-is-good-for-all' slope as much as it had to be dragged forward, screaming and crawling. Many a times necessary by force.

Remember, physicians used to heal with skull trepanations, leeches, cocaine addictions with heroine and etc..

Real science was always done on the fringes, far away from the glossy ivory 'academia'.
We should note that, for the most part, modern scientists are men of gross unintelligence. Scientific "marvels" are not necessarily the achievements of great intellects. They are the results of experimentation, of hundreds and thousands and millions of tests and re-tests. A brilliant mind is not what is required to produce them, but dogged persistence; plus the ability to observe carefully, to measure, to count, to note what causes produce what effects, and to link one usable discovery to another until gradually, finally, the "thing" is arrived at.

The indomitable Hilaire Belloc has written: “The conquests of physical science were due to minute and extensive observation conducted by vast numbers of men and, therefore, for the most part, by the unintelligent. Science attracted some few men of high culture and some even (much fewer) of strong reasoning power; but in themselves, mere observation and comparison, the framing of hypotheses and the testing of them by experiment, need no intellectual qualities above the lowest and are therefore an obvious occupation for those who despise or do not grasp the use of reason. It has even been maintained that the ceaseless practice of exact measurement dulls the brain.”
 

Caramasão

Woodpecker
Orthodox Inquirer
I thought it was interesting his explanation about how the Crucifixion mirrored the time under Moses when he placed the serpent on the pole and the Israelites were ordered to file past and look at it. According to Peterson, it is a well-known psychological technique to help people conquer a fear or phobia by having them confront the object of their fear in some way like that, in this case (crucifixion) the fear of death and mortality. I had never heard it explained like that.

Anyway, from what I understand a common subject with biblical scholars is extrapolating and explaining the events in the Old Testament that are seen as foreshadowing and metaphors for what would occur in the New Testament. Abraham being ordered to sacrifice his son is one of the most famous, but just as with the serpent on a pole, it's not the only one, by far.
I dont know, man. The association between the bronze serpent and confronting your phobias is too much psychologization for me.
 

Lawrence87

Kingfisher
Orthodox
I dont know, man. The association between the bronze serpent and confronting your phobias is too much psychologization for me.
Agreed. Peterson views the Bible as a psychological allegory rather than Truth. Christians would do a lot better to listen to the Holy Fathers and Saints rather than someone who won't say that they believe in Christ as God and Saviour (or even that they believe in God).
 

EgoDeath

Robin
Other Christian
Watch out bucko.

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Lawrence87

Kingfisher
Orthodox
Peterson should just become Orthodox or shut up.

He acts like he has this unique key to understanding Christ, and that he is above and beyond all the other means of understanding Him. It's pure pride. Like when he says 'I've thought about the crucifixion for 28 years' or whatever, it's like he has to do that because he has to add something to it, or figure out the thing that everyone else is blind to.

The Truth is simple. Christ is God, our Lord and Saviour, repent and be saved in His body the Church. There's nothing to add that hasn't already been expressed in the Fathers of the Church. I hope he repents and becomes an actual Christian
 

Viktor Zeegelaar

Crow
Orthodox Inquirer
Prime example of JP gatekeeping:


Gatekeeping is always an interesting concept, in which I find it important to distinguish two types. First, the calculated gatekeeping, keeping people from a certain understanding or truth by explicitly and purposefully detracting people from that understanding or truth. Second, the gatekeeping out of not understanding a situation very well, without bad intentions, but because of an inability to grasp the full truth of a situation guiding people away from the truth, without intention. Would you say JP is the first or the last? Personally I think he has good intentions, but also weights his words as a public figure and is on a journey himself.
Peterson should just become Orthodox or shut up.

He acts like he has this unique key to understanding Christ, and that he is above and beyond all the other means of understanding Him. It's pure pride. Like when he says 'I've thought about the crucifixion for 28 years' or whatever, it's like he has to do that because he has to add something to it, or figure out the thing that everyone else is blind to.

The Truth is simple. Christ is God, our Lord and Saviour, repent and be saved in His body the Church. There's nothing to add that hasn't already been expressed in the Fathers of the Church. I hope he repents and becomes an actual Christian
While I agree with your overall take, we musn't forget that the man is a public figure, always in the spotlights, also when his views are changing. It may very well be that in a few years, or sooner, he will have joined at least a church, whether can push towards Orthodoxy straightaway or takes steps in between, or ends up at another Christian denomination we don't know, would also depend on his influences around him I'd suppose but for example Michael Pugeau is an influence on him and he's Orthodox so that's hopeful. What I mean to say is that we can't expect someone to communicate the entire truth straightaway, if I think back of myself and the journey I've been through I'd be shocked when all of that was filmed every day and I'd be embarrassed about all the things I did and thought, however it was necessary to get to a better point later in life.
 

911

Peacock
Catholic
Gold Member
Gatekeeping is always an interesting concept, in which I find it important to distinguish two types. First, the calculated gatekeeping, keeping people from a certain understanding or truth by explicitly and purposefully detracting people from that understanding or truth. Second, the gatekeeping out of not understanding a situation very well, without bad intentions, but because of an inability to grasp the full truth of a situation guiding people away from the truth, without intention. Would you say JP is the first or the last? Personally I think he has good intentions, but also weights his words as a public figure and is on a journey himself.

Peterson is arguably the clearest example I can think of of someone who fits your first category of gatekeeper, the calculated liar. He is a kind of lifetime actor, term coined by Joe Atwill, someone who is always playing a role in public and is always calculating when it comes to sensitive topics, always conscious of his role as pied piper to a very large purple pilled audience.

In the second category, you have a lot of well-meaning leftists, like say Abby Martin, or boomercons like Robert Barnes. People who get most of the gaslighting but don't have enough depth to their analysis to drill down to the very core of the onion, so they steer the conversation away when sensitive issues are brought up.
 

Lawrence87

Kingfisher
Orthodox
While I agree with your overall take, we musn't forget that the man is a public figure, always in the spotlights, also when his views are changing. It may very well be that in a few years, or sooner, he will have joined at least a church, whether can push towards Orthodoxy straightaway or takes steps in between, or ends up at another Christian denomination we don't know, would also depend on his influences around him I'd suppose but for example Michael Pugeau is an influence on him and he's Orthodox so that's hopeful. What I mean to say is that we can't expect someone to communicate the entire truth straightaway, if I think back of myself and the journey I've been through I'd be shocked when all of that was filmed every day and I'd be embarrassed about all the things I did and thought, however it was necessary to get to a better point later in life.
I certainly hope that he will join the church.

I think his pride in his own intellect is a huge stumbling block for him though.

He'd have to humble himself pretty hard, and it seems being in a coma and having mega harsh benzo withdrawal hasn't helped in that regard.

It's like he's built up this hyper complex psychoanalytical barrier that is preventing him from accepting Christ simply, like a child. He has to let all that go and say "you know what, it's genuinely true in its simplest form"

I hope he gets there but despite everything I don't really see any meaningful progress in that direction from him.
 

Parmesan

Kingfisher
Other Christian
I certainly hope that he will join the church.

I think his pride in his own intellect is a huge stumbling block for him though.

He'd have to humble himself pretty hard, and it seems being in a coma and having mega harsh benzo withdrawal hasn't helped in that regard.

It's like he's built up this hyper complex psychoanalytical barrier that is preventing him from accepting Christ simply, like a child. He has to let all that go and say "you know what, it's genuinely true in its simplest form"

I hope he gets there but despite everything I don't really see any meaningful progress in that direction from him.
I'd argue him maintaining a secular perspective (or appearance of such) is more beneficial. He's a gateway drug to the red pill, and for better or worse, many of those that began in the secular world (many on this forum if I'm not mistaken), need the stepping stone before going God pill. He's one of them. There are a lot of normies that respect what he says, even liberals. I highly doubt he would have gotten the same traction in pop culture if he was deemed "religious", and certainly Christian. Yea I know, good riddance says this forum, but he's a bridge for those firmly still in the blue pill, liberal mindset.
 
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