The Knees Over Toes Guy

It_is_my_time

Crow
Protestant

I want to preface this with the fact that I do not have any medical training or education. I am just a guy who has been lifting weights for almost 30 years and I have tried many different programs.

I want to also add that Ben is selling a service. I think it is around $50 a month. I have not purchased the program and I am not sure if I will do so any time soon, simply because I need to work on so many things to build up to make it worth my while.

I have been watching his videos and changing my training routine the last three weeks. I have very long legs per my height and I have always struggled with traditional leg exercises and flexibility. I have stretched at least once a day for years on end and it seemed like I had just plateaued on my flexibility. After doing some of his exercises I have far less joint pain and I have been able to stretch further. Things that used to bother my lower back no longer cause me any issues.

After watching his videos, I have worked in a few sets of...

- One leg ATG split squats
- One leg sissy squats
- My best attempt at doing nordics (very difficult exercise)
- Seated hyperextensions

I bring this to your attention both due to the good results I have seen but to also possibly change your thoughts on training.
 

It_is_my_time

Crow
Protestant
I just want to give a one week update. I was going to wait for a one month update, but I wanted to share this information quicker.

I have not subscribed, mostly due to the fact my schedule is too off to pay for the coaching service and at my age (mid 40's) I am not sure if I could keep up with a plan that is probably designed more for guys in their teens and 20's. Recovery time at my age will hinder what I can do each week v. a 20 year old.

I want to add that I am an extremely long limbed person. If you are long limbed I think this is the golden workout program you have been searching for. If you are average build or shorter limb, I cannot say if you will get more good out of this v. what you are already doing, but I suspect it will still be a good idea to work some of his exercises into your program.

1 time a week I do full ATG back squats with a bar on my back. I have never done them before the last few weeks. In fact that is how I found this guy on Youtube was searching for videos on ATG squats v. power squats. I started ATG squats 4 weeks ago, and I could only do 95 lbs. 2 times. This week I did 95 lbs. 10 times. I have done power squats (lower bar back squats that qualify for power lifting competitions) for decades. So I expected my ATG to get stronger, but not this quickly.

Then the other 2 times a week I run sprints (6 or 7 up hill about 50 yards) in front of my house and do some max jumps off all 4 plants.

Then three times a week (the two workouts mentioned above) I do the following...

One Leg ATG split squats x 2 sets to failure
Nordics x 1 set to failure
Slant board elevated (heel elevated at 45 degrees) ATG squats x 1 set to failure. This really puts the pressure on the knee and lower quad (PMO).
45 degree elevated (front of foot elevated) stiff leg deadlifts x 1 to failure
Seated hyperextensions x 1 to failure
Hip Flexor Raises x 1 to failure
One leg Calve Raises x 1 to failure
Tibialis Raises x 1 to failure

So far the results are that I am more flexible. I have always stretched at least once a day. Doing this program has made me more flexible by lifting though the full range and lifting a stretch.

Less join pain, my knees and ankles feel stronger.

Lower back pain is less. My lower back has been a mess since I injured it dead lifting about 15 years ago. My legs are too long to correctly deadlift and I did not realize this until after I hurt my back one day doing the exercise. My lower back pain has disappeared.

I am excited to see if I get more gains out of this program over the next few weeks.
 

Timbuktube

 
Banned
I saw that guy too. His main thing is working the shin muscle. By strengthening that you take the load off the knee joint. This reduces pain at impact. It’s good for injury recovery. May help vertical leap too.

Since that muscle isn’t part of a bodybuilders physique I don’t have much interest. It’s worthwhile for those with pain or wanting performance.

The training routines seem silly to pay for. He tells you what to do in his promo videos. Do you really need to pay $50/month for motivation?

Just start slow and increase the load with his exercises. The T-Bar seems like a good purchase instead of $50. Maybe the slant platform too.
 

It_is_my_time

Crow
Protestant
I saw that guy too. His main thing is working the shin muscle. By strengthening that you take the load off the knee joint. This reduces pain at impact. It’s good for injury recovery. May help vertical leap too.

Since that muscle isn’t part of a bodybuilders physique I don’t have much interest. It’s worthwhile for those with pain or wanting performance.

The training routines seem silly to pay for. He tells you what to do in his promo videos. Do you really need to pay $50/month for motivation?

Just start slow and increase the load with his exercises. The T-Bar seems like a good purchase instead of $50. Maybe the slant platform too.
It is pretty involved. He works squats from a raised heel (30 degrees, pretty steep) and it loads the knee ligaments and the lower quad). He does nordics, which is probably the hardest/most intense hamstring workout you can do. His ATG split squat was what really got my attention and doing them has made me so much more flexible and stronger in my glutes.

I don't pay for his service, if I had more time and money I would do so in a heartbeat. Not for motivation, but for the actual workout routine (reps/sets/order) but also because they allow you to send in videos of yourself for them to critique your form on each exercise to make sure you are doing it correctly.

I am extremely long limbed and this is by far the best workout I have encountered for my body type. But I think anyone can get good use out of this routine due to the flexibility increases and how that really is more important than strength gains, especially as we age.

The inspiring thing is that I have now seen two physical therapists review the material and give it a thumbs up and better yet say he has even made them rethink some of the things they do. Not that they will change their professional process, but more so for their own personal training/benefit.
 
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It_is_my_time

Crow
Protestant
OK so a bit more involved. I only ever watched his Instagram videos.
Yea, I have not only watched all of his videos, and then videos by Physical Therapists giving their reviews, but also some of his customers videos.

He gives a ton of information for free, which is why I am such a big fan. I've been working out/lifting for almost 3 decades, so I think I can piece together what I need, but I would still love to sign up for a few months if I had the time.

The exercises I do work my legs better than anything I have done before and in a much more functional way. I have done cleans/snatches/squats/deadlifts all the big dog leg lifts for years and this is more intense. Granted that is likely because I am very long limbed and doing those lifts with a traditional bar doesn't work my legs at nearly as good of an angle as doing one leg at a time. I have read that many top level strength and conditioning coaches work their basketball players one leg at a time and one of the main reasons is how long their legs are.

But it isn't just the muscles, it is the joints as well. Ankle extension required just to do a one leg ATG split squat is pretty extreme. Knees going to full range of motion and hips targeted specifically as well in a full range.

I am excited because I feel as a middle aged long limbed man I have found my rest of my life lifting routine. Flexibility is more important than strength, especially as we age, and this program has done more for my flexibility than anything else I have done before.
 

It_is_my_time

Crow
Protestant
Good stuff. Are there similar exercise videos for other joints?
He mainly focuses on the knee, but his exercises also strengthen and stretch the ankle and hip. Stretching along with it (static stretches) will make these joints more flexible and in doing so will improve your posture and thus your back.

So the only joints left would be shoulder/elbow/wrist. Here is one he did on shoulders...

 

It_is_my_time

Crow
Protestant
What’s ATG stand for?
When Ben Patrick uses it for his business it is "Athletic Truth Group".

When I use it, it is an old acronym when referring to "ATG" squats, aka, Ass To Grass, meaning all the way down to where your hips stop your movement below parallel.

 
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It_is_my_time

Crow
Protestant
Two week update. I am getting more flexible and stronger in a deeper range in all my leg lifts.

I have been working out 3 times a week. I feel like I am overtraining so I am going to cut back to twice a week. I am sure younger guys can do 3 or even 4 times a week. I am still very impressed with my gains on this program.
 

It_is_my_time

Crow
Protestant
Update on this, this is the 5th week (completed) since first coming across the Youtube videos for the first time.

So far I have gained in flexibility, I can jump higher off all four plants (1 foot left, 1 foot right, 2 foot left first, 2 foot right first), and I have less pain in my joints and lower back. I wish I had known about this training decades ago. But this is all pretty new and he is just starting to get very popular.

I am contemplating taking out high bar back squats. I am going to keep trying them once a week, but this week I pulled the bar off the rack and I felt my lower back tighten up and a muscle pull. This happens time to time, but I am not sure if there is any use in doing the lift when you already have the 1 leg ATG squat and the seated hyperextension.

I'm excited to see where this goes. I never thought in my 40's I would make gains, being I started lifting when I was 15. But for the first time in a while I am seeing some real gains and a lot of it is simply flexibility.

I have settled on the following routine...

Tuesday:
Vertical Jumps and arm swings (5 lbs. in each hand and swing my arms up and down) x3
ATG Jump Squats x1
ATG Squats x1 (using 5/3/1 workout weight template)
One leg ATG Squats x1
Nordics x1
Sissy Squats x1
Hip Flexor Raises x1
Reverse Calve Raises x1 (Tibs)
Calve Raises x1

Friday:
Sprints x4
Max Jump off all 4 plants x5
Depth Jumps x2
One leg ATG Squats x1
Nordics x1
Sissy Squats x1
Hip Flexor Raises x1
Reverse Calve Raises x1 (Tibs)
Calve Raises x1

Sunday:
Sprints
Max Jumps

Tuesday I work in some lighter upper body. Friday is Chest press in the morning before the Friday leg workout that is at noon. Saturday is Back.
 

get2choppaaa

Hummingbird
Orthodox


I think for some the dude has been a benefit for some who are needing some improvement in mobility.

Here is my issue with this guy. He presents things that are at a level of HYPER MOBILITY as though they are norms for all people. In this video there is no discussion about bracing/breath control/inter-abdominal wall pressure ect...

There is no need to get this deep into lumbar flexion or extension is asking for injury among 99.9% of practitioners.

I am a huge fan of good mornings, seated/standing/ onto pins/onto chains suspended concentric only or any other variation there within.

I've found that the best thing for strengthening and rehabbing the lower back is a movement like a reverse hyper extension.

I mean HIS hypermobility is impressive... but I think it's focus without the nuance of breath control is a good recipe for clickbait and getting injuries as low info youtube people try and mimick the video.
 

It_is_my_time

Crow
Protestant


I think for some the dude has been a benefit for some who are needing some improvement in mobility.

Here is my issue with this guy. He presents things that are at a level of HYPER MOBILITY as though they are norms for all people. In this video there is no discussion about bracing/breath control/inter-abdominal wall pressure ect...

There is no need to get this deep into lumbar flexion or extension is asking for injury among 99.9% of practitioners.

I am a huge fan of good mornings, seated/standing/ onto pins/onto chains suspended concentric only or any other variation there within.

I've found that the best thing for strengthening and rehabbing the lower back is a movement like a reverse hyper extension.

I mean HIS hypermobility is impressive... but I think it's focus without the nuance of breath control is a good recipe for clickbait and getting injuries as low info youtube people try and mimick the video.


Yes, one of the criticisms of his information, from a P.T., was that anyone watching would just jump in and try to do what he does. He says to not do this, but he doesn't do a good job of actually showing what a beginner should expect v. him.

Good call on the breathing. I guess I have lifted for so long that it comes natural and I never even thought to question it.

I know I can't even come close to bending/flexing as much as he can, and I have stretched for a long time. I also know I may never be able to do so, but I just try to get better. But yes, good call, anyone reading this thread understand his ability is beyond what a beginner can do.

I can say I am sold on his exercises though. I have never felt as much coordination, strength and flexibility in my body and I have tried almost every program out there. Granted I am extremely long limbed so most things don't work for me, or don't work very well. I have even given up on back squats and never felt better. Replacing them with front squats, ATG split squats, and other leg exercises.
 

PUA_Rachacha

Woodpecker
Catholic


I think for some the dude has been a benefit for some who are needing some improvement in mobility.

Here is my issue with this guy. He presents things that are at a level of HYPER MOBILITY as though they are norms for all people. In this video there is no discussion about bracing/breath control/inter-abdominal wall pressure ect...

There is no need to get this deep into lumbar flexion or extension is asking for injury among 99.9% of practitioners.

I am a huge fan of good mornings, seated/standing/ onto pins/onto chains suspended concentric only or any other variation there within.

I've found that the best thing for strengthening and rehabbing the lower back is a movement like a reverse hyper extension.

I mean HIS hypermobility is impressive... but I think it's focus without the nuance of breath control is a good recipe for clickbait and getting injuries as low info youtube people try and mimick the video.

Maybe his program has a beginner routine for old guys like me who have become stiff but still workout like crazy? I'll check, but $50/mo. is steep. But presumably you learn the routine, memorize it, and there's not too much new content, and eventually you sign off. Kind of like going to a physical therapist for rehab, you've got to go a bunch first until you get the exercises down, then you rehab the rest at home.
 

It_is_my_time

Crow
Protestant
Maybe his program has a beginner routine for old guys like me who have become stiff but still workout like crazy? I'll check, but $50/mo. is steep. But presumably you learn the routine, memorize it, and there's not too much new content, and eventually you sign off. Kind of like going to a physical therapist for rehab, you've got to go a bunch first until you get the exercises down, then you rehab the rest at home.
I think a lot of his exercises are his youtube videos. He explains each exercise needs to be done as a progression and he does demonstrate where a beginner would be. Such as with the ATG split squat he shows it would start with your front foot elevated and holding on to something stable to assist you.

So I don't think you have to buy the program, you can watch the videos, test things out and see what you like. I have never subscribed, mostly I don't have time to make it worthwhile, but from what I understand you get a more detailed program as you progress and you can video yourself doing the exercises and their staff will give you tips on what you are doing wrong.
 

PUA_Rachacha

Woodpecker
Catholic
Here's a description from his website. So, beginner routine would be body weight only, and progressing from there.

What programs do you offer?

There are 3 programs:
- Knee Ability Zero
- Dense Strength
- Standards

The route from Knee Ability Zero to Dense Strength to Standards is entirely SCALABLE so that everyone can do every movement, regardless of your current ability!

Watch this video to give you more understanding: WHY Knee Ability Zero to Dense Strength to Standards - YouTube

Best results have been seen by doing 12 weeks of each program in exact sequence from Zero to Dense to Standards, and each program does address your full body and mobility - not just your knees. In fact, many other parts of your body relate TO your knees and are strategically addressed and progressed as you go through.

Knee Ability Zero is the only “optional” step. Yes, I do 12 weeks of bodyweight-only training myself each year, but I understand if someone is in a sport requiring extreme muscle mass and strength and simply does not want to do the bodyweight phase.
 

PUA_Rachacha

Woodpecker
Catholic
I have settled on the following routine...

Tuesday:
Vertical Jumps and arm swings (5 lbs. in each hand and swing my arms up and down) x3
ATG Jump Squats x1
ATG Squats x1 (using 5/3/1 workout weight template)
One leg ATG Squats x1
Nordics x1
Sissy Squats x1
Hip Flexor Raises x1
Reverse Calve Raises x1 (Tibs)
Calve Raises x1

Friday:
Sprints x4
Max Jump off all 4 plants x5
Depth Jumps x2
One leg ATG Squats x1
Nordics x1
Sissy Squats x1
Hip Flexor Raises x1
Reverse Calve Raises x1 (Tibs)
Calve Raises x1

Sunday:
Sprints
Max Jumps

Tuesday I work in some lighter upper body. Friday is Chest press in the morning before the Friday leg workout that is at noon. Saturday is Back.

So, your workouts primarily consist of leg work, with some light upper body? Don't mean to question, everybody's workout needs to be tailored to their needs, but isn't your program too leg-heavy?
 
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