The Mexico Thread aka "Mexico Is Collapsing"

ElFlaco

Kingfisher
Gold Member
Spaniard88 said:
It's hard to see any candidate other than AMLO winning, they just don't have his charisma.

Watching the debate live. So far they've been accusing each other of being the most corrupt.

AMLO seems the most confident in his body language and voice. Makes sense, since he has the most experience as a speaker/politician and has a strong lead in the polls. But he goes off track when he starts citing statistics.

Anaya is the beta candidate, too intellectual and nerdy looking.

Meade looks presidential enough but is the establishment candidate, associated with the current government that is not at all popular.

El Bronco is a minor/independent candidate. He just suggested cutting off the hands of bad guys and claims he wasn't joking. That should get him some attention.

Zavala, wife of a ex president, is also a minor/independent candidate. She has a tough persona and I can see her being popular with women but she is low in the polls.

The moderators are decent, nothing like the clowns who moderated the 2016 US debates.

None of these candidates are 'master persuaders' in the Scott Adams sense. They're talking to the moderator and to each other rather than thinking about how their message and image will resonate with the voters watching at home.
 

whatday

Pelican
Gold Member
ElFlaco said:
Spaniard88 said:
It's hard to see any candidate other than AMLO winning, they just don't have his charisma.

Watching the debate live. So far they've been accusing each other of being the most corrupt.

AMLO seems the most confident in his body language and voice. Makes sense, since he has the most experience as a speaker/politician and has a strong lead in the polls. But he goes off track when he starts citing statistics.

Anaya is the beta candidate, too intellectual and nerdy looking.

Meade looks presidential enough but is the establishment candidate, associated with the current government that is not at all popular.

El Bronco is a minor/independent candidate. He just suggested cutting off the hands of bad guys and claims he wasn't joking. That should get him some attention.

Zavala, wife of a ex president, is also a minor/independent candidate. She has a tough persona and I can see her being popular with women but she is low in the polls.

The moderators are decent, nothing like the clowns who moderated the 2016 US debates.

None of these candidates are 'master persuaders' in the Scott Adams sense. They're talking to the moderator and to each other rather than thinking about how their message and image will resonate with the voters watching at home.

Anywhere we can watch this online?
 

ElFlaco

Kingfisher
Gold Member
Zelcorpion said:
All 3 look like globalist candidates to me - just with different levels on the left-right scale.

Based on what? That's a bizarre comment.

1. The candidates and the parties aren't really on a left-right scale, at least not in the sense that those terms are understood in US politics.

2. This debate didn't touch on the economy, economic issues. Presumably that's coming up in the future debates.
 
ElFlaco said:
Zelcorpion said:
All 3 look like globalist candidates to me - just with different levels on the left-right scale.

Based on what? That's a bizarre comment.

1. The candidates and the parties aren't really on a left-right scale, at least not in the sense that those terms are understood in US politics.

2. This debate didn't touch on the economy, economic issues. Presumably that's coming up in the future debates.

It's only bizarre if you don't know how the world runs.

The candidates:

1) Left-wing - easily controlled - will push through some leftist crap with irrelevant results for the majority

2) young grasshopper willing to do everything for globalist money - corporate candidate - maybe push through some more capitalist reforms.

3) status-quo candidate - nothing will change

If you want to know why and how things are run you would need to read the books of Carroll Quigley, Antony Sutton, Reece commission on Foundations in the 1950s (americandeception.com) - or check out Alan Watt's site cuttingthroughthematrix.com

I doubt that a true anti-establishment candidate like Andrew Jackson or Abe Lincoln could have a chance in Mexico - no way in hell. Much more advanced countries are finding out that it is close to impossible to launch a true anti-globalist reformer.
 

ElFlaco

Kingfisher
Gold Member
Zelcorpion said:
It's only bizarre if you don't know how the world runs.

You can't understand local/national politics by applying a universal template. You actually have to be knowledgeable about the country, the culture and the society to understand what's going on. Nothing you've written in this thread demonstrates an understanding of Mexico's internal situation. And the sources you quoted are not about Mexico, either.
 
ElFlaco said:
Zelcorpion said:
It's only bizarre if you don't know how the world runs.

You can't understand local/national politics by applying a universal template. You actually have to be knowledgeable about the country, the culture and the society to understand what's going on. Nothing you've written in this thread demonstrates an understanding of Mexico's internal situation. And the sources you quoted are not about Mexico, either.

Actually Carroll Quigley has a good portion on the real history of Mexico. But never mind - we can discuss the way how almost all countries in the world are controlled by a centralized group. If you would enter the higher strata of Mexico, then you would find it very similar to other countries in the world. The grassroots problems and general economy is different - and so are the local problems, because that is a strong mix created by the people of that country. Many factors go into that - also the ability and willingness/ability of that people to fight against corruption.

But we can talk in 2 years post election how things have dramatically changed in Mexico. Scotch is on me - you will need it, even if your dream candidate wins.
 

ElFlaco

Kingfisher
Gold Member
Zelcorpion said:
But we can talk in 2 years post election how things have dramatically changed in Mexico. Scotch is on me - you will need it, even if your dream candidate wins.

You've misread me, as you misread the political landscape in Mexico.

1. I don't have a dream candidate. I have no opinion about which candidate or party would be best for Mexico. That's a problem for Mexico.

2. I don't think things will dramatically change for the better in Mexico based on who or which party wins. It's possible but unlikely. It seems more probable that a bad candidate could make things worse.
 
Funny vid about an autonomous town of Mexico that booted out all police, criminals and politicians - and it's thriving since 7 years!



Of course it has an armed militia who is cooperating like shepherds. Crime is close to zero - and violent crime certainly is. They had to boot out the cops, because they were protecting the criminals who terrorized the town.

Shows you that the people of Mexico do have the ability to self-govern and have a peaceful prosperous society without crime.
 

Deepdiver

Crow
Gold Member
Thread Bump...

As the Cartels are parasites upon the Host (Nation of Mexico) last thing the cartels want to see is the Host economy drastically collapse... also I was not aware that the USA imports from Mexico are approx $360 Billion a year worth of goods agricultural and manufactured (Auto Parts and fully assembled Autos etc) from Mexico - Last I checked Mexico basically only imports WalMart stuff from the USA (Mostly Made in China with the occasional roboticized baby diaper and toilet paper factory in the southern USA). The irony is with just 5% tariffs on $360B equals $18 Billion a year and 10% = $36 Billion a year - and damn if El jeffe Don Trumpismo el Hermano Orange Grande esta mucho correcto - Mexico, in fact, will pay for the effing wall that Vicente Fox former corrupt Coca Cola Exec and former President of Mexico said they would not effing pay... This is actually more tariffs leverage over Mexico than the USA has over China or the EU. Who else will buy all this stuff from Mexico?

What's worse is the surge in illegal border crossers with help of the DNC, Soros Funded NGOs and UN Agency for Refugees is now at an all-time high up 34% from just April to May of this year... Central American radio stations broadcasting instructions how to apply for full ride welfare benefits (Housing, Medical, Food, EBT & WIC, Obamaphones, jobs training programs, schools for their kids etc etc) life in a US Ghetto is far better than life in a tin roof dirt floor shack in Honduras, Guatemala or El Salvador especially if you mule drugs and cash in and out of the USA to Mexico for the Cartels as a side hustle.

Wednesday’s announcement by Customs and Border Protection of a significant surge in border crossings was meant to put pressure on the Mexican government to meet Mr. Trump’s demands. More than 144,200 migrants were arrested and taken into custody along the southwestern border in May, a 32 percent increase from April and the highest monthly total in 13 years. Most crossed the border illegally, while about 10 percent arrived without the proper documentation at ports of entry along the border.

ap_9ca4e9c6aa1643208627a4c035468436-294x463.jpg
 

Handsome Creepy Eel

Peacock
Catholic
Gold Member
I'm glad this is working, but it's just a band-aid. You can't outsource your security to a foreign nation, whether it's by bribing it or threatening it by tariffs. If USA doesn't manage to build the wall/deport millions/remove incentives, it's finished no matter how much help Mexico provides.
 

CaptainChardonnay

Pelican
Gold Member








https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...on-critics-slam-security-policy-idUSKBN1WX1PL

MEXICO CITY (Reuters) - Mexican officials on Friday admitted they had bungled the arrest of kingpin Joaquin “El Chapo” Guzman’s son, who they let go during shootouts with drug gangs in the streets of a major city, but the president insisted his security strategy was working.

Cartel gunmen surrounded around 35 police and national guards in the northwestern city of Culiacan on Thursday and made them free Ovidio Guzman, one of the jailed drug lord’s dozen or so children, after his brief detention set off widespread gun battles and a jailbreak that stunned the country.

The chaos in Culiacan, a bastion of Guzman’s Sinaloa Cartel, turned up pressure on President Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador, who took office in December promising to pacify a country weary of more than a decade of gang violence and murders.

Lopez Obrador came under heavy criticism on social media and from security experts, who said that authorities risked encouraging copycat actions by caving in to the gang, and that the retreat from a major city created the impression that the cartel, not the state, was in control.

His own officials said the operation in Culiacan, the capital of Sinaloa state and home to nearly a million people, had not been planned as well as it should have been.

“It was done hastily, the consequences were not considered, the riskiest part wasn’t taken into account,” Defense Minister Luis Cresencio Sandoval told a news conference in Culiacan, alongside Security Minister Alfonso Durazo, who called the attempt to capture the younger Guzman a “failure.”

Durazo admitted he and the military top brass were not aware ahead of time of the mission to bring into custody the alleged trafficker, calling it a bureaucratic error.

But the president defended the government response.

“Capturing a criminal can’t be worth more than people’s lives,” he said, adding that officials “did well” to free Ovidio Guzman. “We don’t want dead people, we don’t want war,” said Lopez Obrador, a veteran leftist who has advocated a less confrontational approach to tackling the gangs.

“We’re doing really well in our strategy,” he said.

The violent reaction to Guzman’s apprehension in a wealthy area of Culiacan was on a scale rarely seen during Mexico’s long drug wars.

Sandoval said he had reports of at least eight people killed, including five suspected gang members, in Culiacan, where schools were closed on Friday after the ordeal.
WHO’S IN CONTROL?

One Facebook user stumbled on two dead bodies in the street near an abandoned truck, suggesting the death toll may yet rise in the city, where the government said gunmen staged 14 attacks on the armed forces and 19 road blocks where vehicles burned.

Footage of Thursday’s chaos on social media showed panicked residents fleeing and high caliber gunfire ringing out across town. People cowered in shopping centers and supermarkets and black plumes of smoke rose across the skyline.

Chaos continued into the night after a large group of inmates also escaped from the city prison.

On Friday, cars navigated burnt out vehicles that partially blocked streets.

Gladys McCormick, a security analyst at Syracuse University in the United States, said the latest news from Mexico read like that of a country in “the throes of war.”

“What is incontrovertible is that the Sinaloa Cartel won yesterday’s battle,” she added. “Not only did they get the government to release Ovidio, they demonstrated to the citizens of Culiacan as well as the rest of Mexico who is in control.”

Durazo said the government’s decision to free Guzman “involved absolutely no negotiation.”

Still, questions about how the release was handled continued circulating after defense minister Sandoval said nine security personnel were “held and freed without injury.”

Meanwhile, Jose Luis Gonzalez Meza, a lawyer for the Guzman family, thanked Lopez Obrador for the government’s actions.

“We have a humane president, a Christian president who in the end decided not to hurt Ovidio,” he told a news conference.
BLAMING OTHERS

Lopez Obrador rejected the suggestion the government had showed weakness in releasing the younger Guzman, describing this view as “conjecture” put about by his adversaries to hurt him.

A trenchant critic of past administrations, Lopez Obrador said previous government strategies had turned Mexico into a “graveyard” and that his critics wanted him to continue with it.

He argues that authorities should focus more on the root causes of drug violence, such as poverty and a lack of jobs.

To boost security, Lopez Obrador has created a new National Guard - but thousands of that militarized police force’s members have instead been sent to contain illegal immigration through Mexico at the behest of U.S. President Donald Trump.

He has also sought to underline his command of law and order by chairing security cabinet meetings every weekday at 6 a.m.

Still, the murder tally in Mexico this year is on track to surpass last year’s record total of more than 29,000.

Thursday’s events followed the massacre of more than a dozen police in western Mexico earlier this week, and the killing of 14 suspected gangsters by the army a day later.

Lopez Obrador said security forces had swooped on the house in Culiacan to capture Ovidio Guzman after a judge issued a warrant for his arrest and extradition.

That contradicted the initial version put out on Thursday by the government, which was that the officers had come under fire from the house while passing, then found Guzman inside.

The elder Guzman escaped from prison in Mexico twice, in 2001 and 2015. Under the previous administration, security forces captured him two times in Sinaloa, in 2014 and 2016.

The previous government extradited him to the United States on the eve of Trump’s accession. He was found guilty in a U.S. court in February of smuggling tons of drugs and sentenced to life in prison.

The U.S. Department of Justice unveiled an indictment against Ovidio and one of his brothers in February, charging them with conspiracy to distribute cocaine, methamphetamine, and marijuana in the United States.
 

infowarrior1

Crow
Protestant
If only there was a way to make cartel money disappear and be cut off. Like how Russia in bombing oil convoys to Turkey from ISIS territory and oil rigs bankrupted ISIS.
 

MajorStyles

Kingfisher
Catholic
Mexico has a strong Indian spirit which is, from my experience, not conducive to the idea of a Western Übermensch. Most of these Mayan-type(s) are stoic people that only work to survive. They are not interested in building skyscrapers, creating modern technologies, etc. Instead, they look backwards for inspiration and seek an identity in their cultural roots.

These old videos show just how indigenous Mexico is/was:



In short, Mexico is not collapsing insofar as it was never really "rising" (in the modern sense of the word).
 

perros

 
Banned
MajorStyles said:
Mexico has a strong Indian spirit which is, from my experience, not conducive to the idea of a Western Übermensch. Most of these Mayan-type(s) are stoic people that only work to survive. They are not interested in building skyscrapers, creating modern technologies, etc. Instead, they look backwards for inspiration and seek an identity in their cultural roots.

These old videos show just how indigenous Mexico is/was:



In short, Mexico is not collapsing insofar as it was never really "rising" (in the modern sense of the word).



Its changed a lot. Feminism and Western culture has infiltrated. Now Mexican girls are just like American girls where they get trashed drunk and bang like 100 dudes each.

 
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