The Nagorno-Karabakh conflict thread (Armenia vs Azerbaijan)

La Águila Negra

Ostrich
Protestant
The shenanigans have started already. You see you can't really expect these people to keep their promises unless there is some heavy handed form of punishment down the line

Biggest issue might become Shushi, which according to the Agreement will be administered by the Russians. Yet the Azeris are still in the city and don't seem to have any plans to leave


That was fast


Strange story. A mine explosion that kills and wounds both Russians, Armenians and Azeris at the same time?


Interesting revelation about the drone warfare that has been going on Artsakh. It corroborates with the personal stories from the front line were the Armenians were saying that for about ~ 1 week the drone attacks seemed to have stopped - only to return with a vigor during the last 3 days of the war.


More proof that the Armenians were dominated from every angle. Azeri/ Turkish electronic warfare messing up OSA1 anti drone rocket launchers. Azeris had heavy ECM support. They used ground based jammer and satellite hammers on their Su-25 planes. Probably Turkish Koral systems on the ground too

From another website.

'New video footage from the fields of the recent Karabakh war that has appeared on the network reveals a whole series of unsuccessful attempts by the Armenian military to shoot down an Azerbaijani unmanned aerial vehicle from the Osa air defense system, which is carrying out reconnaissance of the area. The first rocket launched was able to fly only 300-400 meters from the object and plummeted into the ground. A few minutes later, another rocket was fired, flying only a little closer and also falling near the launcher. According to the journalists of the avia.pro portal, this may indicate the complete suppression of air defense systems by an unknown electronic warfare system.

Earlier it was reported that the Azerbaijani army is mainly armed with the Belarusian "Groza" complexes (pictured) and their various modifications. "At present, Azerbaijan operates several types of electronic warfare systems, however, Belarusian equipment is considered the most effective. It has a high rate of mobility, but the main feature is the ability to quickly find targets," the glas.ru edition notes.



One Soros c*cksucker out. Close ally of Pasinyan. 'education reforms that were considered anti-Armenian traditions'

 
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The shenanigans have started already. You see you can't really expect these people to keep their promises unless there is some heavy handed form of punishment down the line

Biggest issue might become Shushi, which according to the Agreement will be administered by the Russians. Yet the Azeris are still in the city and don't seem to have any plans to leave


That was fast


Strange story. A mine explosion that kills and wounds both Russians, Armenians and Azeris at the same time?


Interesting revelation about the drone warfare that has been going on Artsakh. It corroborates with the personal stories from the front line were the Armenians were saying that for about ~ 1 week the drone attacks seemed to have stopped - only to return with a vigor during the last 3 days of the war.


More proof that the Armenians were dominated from every angle. Azeri/ Turkish electronic warfare messing up OSA1 anti drone rocket launchers. Azeris had heavy ECM support. They used ground based jammer and satellite hammers on their Su-25 planes. Probably Turkish Koral systems on the ground too

From another website.

'New video footage from the fields of the recent Karabakh war that has appeared on the network reveals a whole series of unsuccessful attempts by the Armenian military to shoot down an Azerbaijani unmanned aerial vehicle from the Osa air defense system, which is carrying out reconnaissance of the area. The first rocket launched was able to fly only 300-400 meters from the object and plummeted into the ground. A few minutes later, another rocket was fired, flying only a little closer and also falling near the launcher. According to the journalists of the avia.pro portal, this may indicate the complete suppression of air defense systems by an unknown electronic warfare system.

Earlier it was reported that the Azerbaijani army is mainly armed with the Belarusian "Groza" complexes (pictured) and their various modifications. "At present, Azerbaijan operates several types of electronic warfare systems, however, Belarusian equipment is considered the most effective. It has a high rate of mobility, but the main feature is the ability to quickly find targets," the glas.ru edition notes.



One Soros c*cksucker out. Close ally of Pasinyan. 'education reforms that were considered anti-Armenian traditions'

As always thanks again for your incredibly insightful coverage. This is a truly frightening case study in drone warfare and the helplessness associated with simply not having the right technology.

Separate note, the Armenians really screwed themselves when they decided to elect this PM.
 

Handsome Creepy Eel

Owl
Catholic
Gold Member
What significance does this have for drone warfare in general? Does this imply that a better anti-drone system would be able to deal with drones despite the electronic countermeasures, or does it imply the general superiority of electronic countermeasures over air defenses, to the point that it turns drones into invulnerable flying fortresses?

What is the way forward if the latter is true - lasers and railguns?
 
Hostilities have broken out in the Nagorno-Karabakh region.

The region is, due to the inheritance of Soviet administrational units, officially Azerbaijani territory. However, it has a nearly 100 percent Armenian population and has been a beacon of Christian Armenian cultural for centuries. Since the 1994 Nagorno-Karabakh War (Armenian victory) it is a self-governing break away republic called the Arthsak Republic. In reality it is 100 percent controlled and dependant of Armenia

Ever since the 1994 War Azerbaijan launches regular incursions and probing attacks. This time it looks more serious though. Therefore I am creating this thread

Both Armenia and Azerbaijan seem to be gearing up for serious conflict. If Azerbaijan presses on with its current offensive it will involve several regional keyplayers, most notably Iran, Russia, Turkey and Israel
Same story. Israel gave the weaponized drones received by the usa to the muslims who defeated the armenian christians v
 
About a week ago Voxday wrote an article on the situation in Armenia.


His article was based on an article from The Saker (Russian analyst). I have included the article here so that people can read it for themselves

I thoroughly encourage everyone to read the article mentioned below. It's a long read, but well worth your time. It touches on everything that has been mentioned here, yet in much greater detail and with much more knowledge.


--

However, there are a couple of things in both Voxday's and the The Saker's article that are debatable. Especially the assumption that Russia is a winner in this conflict

I can't agree with that premise.

Also, let's keep in mind that Russian nationalists and Western alt-right/ trad-right types have the habit of exaggerating Russia's performance in the geopolitical arena.

In short, Russia is looking weak and its defensive posturing is leaving a lot of room for its enemies to manoeuvre.

Before going to the why's it's necessary to understand what Russia is trying to accomplish. The most important strategic object of Russia's foreign policy is keeping NATO as far away as possible from its borders (the so called Iron Fence)

A second strategic objective is mitigating the risk of renewed widespread Islamic insurgency in its Southern Region (Chechnya, Dagestan, Ingushetia)

1. Russian military hardware is not nearly as capable as many think it is

This obviously relates to drone warfare. Russian airdefenses were no match for Turkish/ Israeli drones. TOR2, BUK1 & 2, S300s, they all got smoked without being able to pick up ELINT signals/ radar signals

After no more than two weeks the Azeris+Turks had established complete air control. From there on the Armenians were only delaying the inevitable

The same thing has happened in Syria bytheway, where Syrian (Russian made+ trained crews) ADs were easily taken out by Israeli fighter jets

This is bad news for countries relying on Russian made ADs.

* Even worse, it's also bad news for Russia itself. There is a big glaring hole in its defenses and rest assured that its enemies are aware of this. Russia, as it now seems, is not anticipating to future drone warfare. Instead it relies on outdated weapon systems

NATO is designing attack strategies where one long range bomber can release up to a hundred attack drones. A hundred attack drones, you read it right. A hundred attack drones swarming Russian airbases, air defenses and military positions. If Syria and NK have proven anything it is that the S300+ S400 are not up for the task. Electronic Warfare was showing great potential in Syria but will likely fall short against a much more technological advanced enemy. The S500 is at this point still a mystery

Russia needs to go back to the drawing table ASAP. Possible anti drone measures could be laser rail guns, high energy weapons like mobile laser cannons, electro magnetic anti- air artillery. New radar systems on top of that

2. The ceasefire could hurt Russia

The ceasefire is heralded as a master piece on Putin's side. Why? Because it keeps Armenia in the Russian orbit and blocks any future NATO- Azerbaijan rapprochement (part of its territory is occupied by a foreign force and on that condition alone it cannot enter NATO)

Russia has been trying to get its troops into NK since 1994. Now they got what they wanted. 2000 peacekeepers with a lot of heavy materiel

However this is a shortsighted take. Reality is that this conflict doesn't stop here. Its just a much needed break for both sides to replenish their armour, retrain their special forces (Azerbaijan) and restock their drone arsenal.

When all that is done they'll have another go. Aliyev has said it himself already. NK is Azerbaijan and they will take it, one way or another. In fact, both Aliyev and Erdo are eyeing a direct connection (through Armenian territory)

When that happens Russia will find itself in the middle of a war zone, and opposite to what it did this time, they will be forced to act

As the mediator and the guarantor Russia will also be looked at in case the conditions of the November 10 Agreement get broken. Already there is talk of Turkish soldiers in NK, whereas the agreement clearly states that should not happen

The Russian response so far? 'It's not against international law'. Alright then.

3. Russia is under constant attack yet Putin is always on the defensive

I believe the NATO strategy to weaken Russia is through death by a thousand cuts. Russia is under constant attack by proxy. It's getting sucked into conflict zones by design. It's allies are being targeted because they are friendly to Russia. Turkey is a rogue NATO member at this stage (2016 CIA funded Fethullah Gulen coup pissed Erdo off big time) yet as long as it barks at Russia they will give it the OK nod

Russia is always on the defensive. It has lost many friends during the last decades, and has seen NATO encroach constantly. NATO can create conflict zones at will. Now it is the Armenia--Azerbaijan rivalry. Before there was a color revolution in Belarus. Kyrgyzstan is unstable as well. Syria is a powder keg (watch what happens if Biden wins). Ukraine idem dito (again watch what happens if Potato Joe wins) Georgia and Moldova have Russian peacekeepers and are mortal enemies of the Russians now. NATO bases have popped up in the Baltics

Central Asia could be the next hotspot. Especially Kazakhstan (which is friendly towards Russia) is ripe for a color revolution (with Turkic/Islamic undertones). Nazarbayev is an authoritarian ruler who lives like a farao whilst his people suffer from the oil crises+ Covid1984 crisis. The southern half has turned to Islamism and Turkey (+NATO) is already making inroads.

If Kazakhstan gets color revolutioned Putin will be close to getting checkmated

4. Russia is proving to be itself a poor, unreliable ally

By now it should be clear that Russia doesn't stand by its allies. Yes, Pasinyan messed things up and has been a horrible statesman on average..

But that doesn't exclude Russia from any wrongdoing. Russia abandoned Khaddafi in 2011 in the UNSC and subsequently saw him dragged through the streets by NATO mercenaries. Slobodan Milosevic and Saddam Hussein before that. Russia waited for 4 years until it finally stood by Assad (mortars were falling on the Presidential Palace in Mount Qassioen at that time) and Russia let colour revolution after color revolution happen in former USSR states

Russia also sold Azerbaijan, a major enemy of its ally Armenia all sorts of heavy weaponry (2010 weapon deal). Russia didn't lift a (military) finger when the Azeris attacked Artsakh in 2016. Russia didn't military intervene when Armenian mainland was attacked by the Azeris in April 2020. Russia didn't honor its part of the military agreement during this round of fighting (10+ occasions of Azerbaijan targeting Mainland Armenia)

Any ally that is watching this is probably not feeling secure.

5. Russia is looking weak

Azerbaijan downed a Mi-24 helicopter and there was no response. Let that sink in. A small third world shithole country attacked the Russian military and there was no response

There once was a time were people told each other: 'if you touch a Russian soldier you'll regret it for the rest of your life.'

These days people shoot Russian choppers out of the air and nothing happens - deep into Armenia proper's territory too, mind you. No punishment for the person that pulled the trigger, no punishment for the country that encouraged this behaviour.

Briefly mentioning the thousands of Syrian jihadis here too. In what world does a military superpower let a dwarf nation + backer get away with this type of antics? Right on its southern border were jihadists have caused so much trouble in the last 30 years.. I find it unbelievable

Conclusion. This conflict will reignite. Conflicts around and in Russia's sphere of influence will keep igniting as well. Master Yoda Putin is trying to mitigate the impact of each and every blow dealt but can't keep running away from that what is bound to come

Russia had the chance to make a stand in Artsakh. It chose not to make that stand. They will have to do it eventually, either in Artsakh or somewhere else.
I can tell with a matter of fact that the points raised above are absolute rubbish.

1. This is a matter of complete speculation. Russia has currently been working on anti-drone technology for a while now in secret. It is possible they have upgraded their domestic systems whilst other countries still have to wait for an upgrade of their own.

2. The ceasefire won't hurt Russia at all. They have got their troops in Nagorno-Karabakh which is what they wanted for a long time. Also the Azeris don't hold any antagonism towards Russia. On the contrary Azeris are rather friendly towards Russian people and many of their citizens live & work in Moscow. Their leader Aliev is a son of an ex-KGB man. He was actually one of the mediatoirs behind Erdogan and Putin repairing relations in 2016 after the SU-24 incident a year earlier. As a matter of fact in recent years anti-Russian sentiment has been on the rise in Armenia of all places. Especially during the "revolution" which put Pasinyan into power which featured many anti-Russian slogans and flag burning. I know that a lot of Anti-Russian sentiment in Armenia in recent years was due to an incident around 8 years ago when a Russian soldier went AWOL outside his base and killed 8 Armenian citizens but still this is no excuse to turn on your one and only possible saviour.

3. Russia was not attacked but Armenia's proxy region of Artsakh. Russia has no obligation to militarily intervene in places in which they do not deem to be an existential threat to the interests and sovereignty of the Russian Federation.

4. Yeah more like Armenia proved itself to be the poor and unreliable ally. Despite the fact that Russia saved their bacon many times and is basically the founder of the current Armenian state (which comes from the borders drawn up by Russias predecessor the Soviet Union) the Armenians constantly felt that they were somehow "too good" for Russia and that they could create some sort of mythical alliance with the West - most notably France and the United States. I know it may be rough to just blame the Armenian people for this as their somewhat Retarded Diaspora was a major influence in Pasinyan coming into power and influencing a type of thinking which resulted in the replacement of their Russian patron with a Globalhomo patron. Well look how that worked for them. I shifted through videos of Russian bloggers talking about the karabakh conflict and most videos were basically Russian experts and regular citizens basically saying that the Armenians were not grateful enough for Russian support in the past and in a way got what was coming to them. I even read some Armenian reddit threads and most of the users conceded that the reason why Armenians lost the war is because they had come into it with an arrogant attitude and basically burned bridges with any possible friend in the region they could have. This is no way to run a country in such a tough region.

5. No Russia does not look weak. The chopper incident resulted in them sending thousands of troops into Nagorno Karabakh. Only people who look weak are Armenian government & Diaspora. The future of Armenia is to be a Russian client state much like South Ossetia and Abkhazia if they want to survive. Like Robb Stark before the red wedding the Armenians massively overstretched their hand. Instead of realising that they are no superpower and just a small state that relies on Russian military protection to protect their interests they thought Armenia could ditch Russia for US, France and the rest of EU and somehow be better of for it. The Armenian diaspora in Paris & LA do not understand the geopolitical realities in the South Caucasus. Diaspora pushed for Pashinyan because they think Armenia is too good for Russia. They are better of staying put and fundraising for liberal politicians in the west (which they always seem to do) and leaving the people in Yerevan to run their own country.
 
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La Águila Negra

Ostrich
Protestant
It seems like the RUSSIA STRONKK!! crew has arrived.

I can tell with a matter of fact that the points raised above are absolute rubbish.

1. This is a matter of complete speculation. Russia has currently been working on anti-drone technology for a while now in secret. It is possible they have upgraded their domestic systems whilst other countries still have to wait for an upgrade of their own.
1. Just highlighted the phrases above to show how contrarian your statements are

Here's what we know.
* During the first 4 weeks of the war Russian air defenses (S300, TOR1, BUK1, BUK2) got attacked regularly without being able to detect/take out incoming drones.

In addition: ever since the Turk/Azeri war simulation in March 2020 they have been blanketing Artsakh with AWACS radar signals without the Russian made weapon systems+ radars being able to pick up on it

* Armenians assigned mobile OSA1 air defense units to military units. Turk/Azeris used their ELINT signals to simply ping the positions of the OSA1 units thereby giving away Armenian positions instantly

* During the last ~10 days of the war Russia either 1. activated their Pole-21 electronic warfare weapon system in Goris (Russian outpost) or 2. Transferred the Pole-21 weapon system to the Armenian forces in Artsakh

After 4 days this high-tech jammer weapon system got circumnavigated by the Turks/Azeris enabling SATCOMM and the drones basically had field day on Armenian positions (again)

* NATO is developing both new drone attack strategies (the long range bombers releasing up to 100 kamikaze drones) and defensive drone air defenses (electro magnetic rail guns).

Russia is probably doing the same, but as things stand now they are trailing by quite a bit.

* Russian air defenses are easily circumnavigated and taken out in Syria. How many direct hits on Israeli jets have those weapon systems scored? And how many successful bombing raids have the Israelis done in Syria?

The whole claim that Russia is secretly anticipating this whole drone warfare thing and is actually ahead of its enemies is the kind of baseless chestbeating that we've been hearing for 10+ years. Good luck waiting for the Russian Wunderwaffe that will give it the edge of NATO+ it's attack dog Erdo in the age of drone warfare

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for it if I were you

*Additional note: unless you are personally involved with highly classified Russian military R&E programs you are doing noone a service spreading false rumours.

2. The ceasefire won't hurt Russia at all. They have got their troops in Nagorno-Karabakh which is what they wanted for a long time. Also the Azeris don't hold any antagonism towards Russia. On the contrary Azeris are rather friendly towards Russian people and many of their citizens live & work in Moscow. Their leader Aliev is a son of an ex-KGB man.He was actually one of the mediatoirs behind Erdogan and Putin repairing relations in 2016 after the SU-24 incident a year earlier. As a matter of fact in recent years anti-Russian sentiment has been on the rise in Armenia of all places.
The ceasefire doesn't hurt Russia, what comes after the ceasefire will hurt Russia

The statement that Azeris don't hold a grudge against Russia is fantasy. Russia is now occupying part of Azeri territory and has been the de facto protector of Artsakh/ Armenian ally for over 30 years. Add to that the Turkish alliance +post USSR/Warschau pact butthurt that seems to be a thing everywhere and you'll understand how things are
3. Russia was not attacked but Armenia's proxy region of Artsakh. Russia has no obligation to militarily intervene in places in which they do not deem to be an existential threat to the interests and sovereignty of the Russian Federation.
This is historic revisionism and needs to be countered

1. The Armenians and Russians had an oral agreement on Russia maintaining the peace in Artsakh in return for two Russian bases in Armenia+ pro-Russian policies

One might argue that Pasinyan threw that out of the window but the official agreements (CSTO/Minsk etc.) were never cancelled

2. Azerbaijan has several times attacked Armenia Proper in the pre-Pasinyan era (2008, 2016). It has also attacked Armenian territory several times in 2020, and Russia never lifted a finger. Add to that the 2010 weapon deal (1+ billion) and you know how Armenians, even before Pasinyan, felt about their big brother and paper tiger protector

Putin values his enemies over his friends, it seems. He has managed to get Russian peacekeepers into Azerbaijan which was a strategic object ever since 1994. But it came at the cost of not honoring defense agreements and thousands of dead young Armenians

That's nothing short of a gangster move. It might deserve praise on a Machavellian level but that's as far as anyone can go. In this thread I have refrained from giving Putin credit for it, for this reason exactly.
4. Yeah more like Armenia proved itself to be the poor and unreliable ally. Despite the fact that Russia saved their bacon many times and is basically the founder of the current Armenian state (which comes from the borders drawn up by Russias predecessor the Soviet Union) the Armenians constantly felt that they were somehow "too good" for Russia and that they could create some sort of mythical alliance with the West - most notably France and the United States. I know it may be rough to just blame the Armenian people for this as their somewhat Retarded Diaspora was a major influence in Pasinyan coming into power and influencing a type of thinking which resulted in the replacement of their Russian patron with a Globalhomo patron. Well look how that worked for them. I shifted through videos of Russian bloggers talking about the karabakh conflict and most videos were basically Russian experts and regular citizens basically saying that the Armenians were not grateful enough for Russian support in the past and in a way got what was coming to them. I even read some Armenian reddit threads and most of the users conceded that the reason why Armenians lost the war is because they had come into it with an arrogant attitude and basically burned bridges with any possible friend in the region they could have. This is no way to run a country in such a tough region.
Russia is the current Armenia's founder because its borders were drawn by the Soviets.

In my head I roughly translated that statement to this:

'The Armenians have suffered for nearly a century under the Tsarists/Bolshewiks and therefor upon independance they should be thankful to Russia because the current borders - purposely splitting Armenian areas from Armenia - were drawn by the Soviets.'

Also take note that in historical sources 'Armenia' as a people and a state appear about 1200-1500 year before the 'Rus' appears.

This line of thinking is so out of touch with reality that I find it hard to wrap my ahead around it. I

Armenians constantly felt that they were somehow "too good" for Russia

I hope you are not indicative of the Russian Volksgeist here(assuming you are Russian) because I'd expect the average Russian to carry himself with a little more dignity

Please look up how subversion and social engineering/predictive programming work (the favorite tool of any Sorosite). Blaming the Armenians for Pasinyan is like blaming the Russians for Yeltsin. Doesn't make any sense, there are outside forces at work here.
5. No Russia does not look weak. The chopper incident resulted in them sending thousands of troops into Nagorno Karabakh. Only people who look weak are Armenian government & Diaspora. The future of Armenia is to be a Russian client state much like South Ossetia and Abkhazia if they want to survive. Like Robb Stark before the red wedding the Armenians massively overstretched their hand. Instead of realising that they are no superpower and just a small state that relies on Russian military protection to protect their interests they thought Armenia could ditch Russia for US, France and the rest of EU and somehow be better of for it. The Armenian diaspora in Paris & LA do not understand the geopolitical realities in the South Caucasus. Diaspora pushed for Pashinyan because they think Armenia is too good for Russia. They are better of staying put and fundraising for liberal politicians in the west (which they always seem to do) and leaving the people in Yerevan to run their own country.
5. This take lacks geopolitical consciousness.

This conflict wasn't about Armenia, it was about Russia.

It is Russia getting attacked, by proxy. The 'ancient rivalry' perspective is only valid from the Azeri-Armenian angle. The overarching players here are NATO and Russia - the former constantly encroaching on and creating trouble for the latter

NK is yet another bushfire Putin had to stamp out (which he didn't manage to, because the current ceasefire is not sustainable). It's the 5th or 6th hot conflict one Russia finds itself drawn into. Also notice how these conflicts and 'revolutions' seem to happen in ever faster succession to each other

Within 6 months (and probably before that) we will see another conflict zone flare up with, as usual, Russia on the defensive. Belarus, Georgia, Moldova, Libya, Ukraine, Syria, NK, Kazakhstan - they are all fair game for the globalists

If that happens the Russophiles will no doubt come out of the woodwork again (here and especially elsewhere) claiming how Russia is actually winning, how Master Yoda Putin is such a skilled statesman and how the Russian military is unbeatable.
 
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La Águila Negra

Ostrich
Protestant
LOL


The man is still not giving up


Shenanigans


Turkish bases in Artsakh/Azerbaijan, daily reports of infiltration attempts by the Azeris, choppers blown out of the sky

These people don't respect the mediator/referee of this Agreement at all



Indicative of the Armenian population's expectations. They don't think they'll be coming back anytime soon.

 

La Águila Negra

Ostrich
Protestant

Azeri provocation in Davidank (near a famous monastery). The area is located in newly acquired Azeri territory yet there are Russian posts in and around the monastery

It's a minor provocation yet the non verbal behaviour is a clear indication of the Azeri/Turkish disrespect towards the Russian troops

From the article:

The video shows a demonstrative aggressive behavior of Azerbaijani troops. Two Russian negotiators talk with three Azerbaijani personnel (one with a flag on a stick). Behind the Azerbaijani negotiators, it is possible two see a large group of troops demonstratively holding weapons. Are they afraid that these two Russians will suddenly kill them?

Upset Azerbaijani Troops Try To Provoke Russian Peacekeepers In Dadivank

The officer representing the Azerbaijani side pretends that he does not speak Russian. There are two possible explanation: a) He’s a Turk b) This is a demonstrative move to show the position.

Upset Azerbaijani Troops Try To Provoke Russian Peacekeepers In Dadivank

After the end of the conversation, a Russian officer gives a salute, to which, in response, he receives a careless wave of hand by the translator. The Azerbaijani (Turkish?) officer ignores it.

Upset Azerbaijani Troops Try To Provoke Russian Peacekeepers In Dadivank

Upset Azerbaijani Troops Try To Provoke Russian Peacekeepers In Dadivank

Mighty Azerbaijani troops are scared by two Russians:

Upset Azerbaijani Troops Try To Provoke Russian Peacekeepers In Dadivank

It looks that Azerbaijan (Turkey) intentionally staged this local provocation for propaganda purposes to demonstrate the ‘military might and dominance’ over the Russians. Such moves could work well for the internal and event international media consumption. The important thing, when somebody acts this way, is to not forget the modern history. There already was a political regime that thought that it can attack Russian peacekeepers. Than, in 2008, the proud Georgian leader, Mikheil Saakashvili, eat his tie and lost the 8-day war. As a result of the war, Georgian forces were destroyed and Russia recognized South Ossetia and Abkhazia as independent states.

*
Update on today's Azeri aggression in Sotk (biggest goldmine in the region)



*
From the amazing guys of Wargonzo. 100 percent correct. Putin keeps running away from the inevitable.

*
More than 100 Armenians are still in Azeri captivity. Unfortunately it's very likely that many of them have been tortured and executed

New Isis style beheadings can be found on the Internet (while the captives are still alive)

*https://southfront.org/turkey-set-u...to-register-for-settling-in-nagorno-karabakh/

Yes, it is really happening. The families of the thousands of Syrian jihadists will be transferred to the newly occupied areas in NK.

I am pretty sure that was not a part of the November 10 Agreement.
 

La Águila Negra

Ostrich
Protestant
Very informational and interesting analyses about the conflict and Armenia's recent history. Some remarks are debatable. Made by an ethnic Armenian, 20 minutes well spent.

Some interesting takes
* 1.15. In the early days of the conflict Pasinyan ran to Brussels to discuss Turkey's involvement unaware that it was NATO itself which was egging Turkey on.
* 5:25. Pasinyan was involved in many lawsuits against big Russian companies (specially targeting them)
* 5:35. Armenia voted against Russia in a the Council of Europe by mistakenly pressing the wrong button (suuure)
* 6:35. Pasinyan abandoned Russia on the Crimean issue. Ukraine did not return the favour as they openly backed Azerbaijan.
* 7:50. Armenia did not even look into extending ties with Iran despite the enormous potential. Instead they opened an embassy in Israel which then armed their adversary to the teeth even when the conflict was already ongoing
9:00. Enormous economical/geopolitical in extending ties with the Gulf States, India and China. Armenia did capitalise.
*15:10. Pasinyan did not unify the Armenians, instead he purged any and everyone associated with the Old Soviet Guard out - calling them Mafiosi, traitors and enemies of the revolution
* 16:00. Pasinyan wanted to change the Constitution, legal system, electoral system. The October 2019 draft was written by a 28 year old lawyer and influenced by Western NGOs
*17:10. As Pasinyan became more entrenched he became more confident. Government department were closed and university departments defunded. Religious education was removed from school curriculums. There was a attempt to ban clergy from visiting schools. Instead the Istanbul Convention was ratified. Armenian Literature Studies were replaced with Gender Studies
*18:00. The national security agency (NSS) was under direct command of Pasinyan and used as a private army. It was used to politically persecute opponents and imprison them. Using the stick high ranking Old Guard military leaders were replaced with Sorosite lapdogs
*19:40. Pasinyan is scared to act against US and UK companies as he is under great pressure of said countries
*20.00. Nevertheless under Trump US military aid declined significantly whilst the US ranked up militarily aid for Azerbaijan (20 million versus
*22:00. Pasinyan has sacrificed Artsakh. Has repeatedly called it 'the land that belongs to others'

The video:



* Things are falling apart on the Armenian front.. Which is a good thing. Seems to be the Pro-Russian Old Soviet Guard vs the CIA sponsored Western NGO infiltrated Sorosites


* Seems like the Armenians themselves are slowly getting back to their senses and the geopolitical reality they are in.

 

La Águila Negra

Ostrich
Protestant
Does the US military have the means to stop these drones either?
A lot is unclear at this moment

One thing is clear though: we will not see a repeat of this conflict, where one side owns such a vital advantage over the other in terms of drone technology

All militaries+ state departments around the globe will now understand that they have to learn how to swim or they'll sink

Assymetrical warfare will be affected too. Isis and al Qaida both make extensive use of drones for both surveillance and attacks. I am personally very surprised that there haven't been any terror attacks by drone yet (in the West)

I think it is safe to say that the Turkish dronewarfare has been more successful than even the Turks could have imagined. The elite units of the SAA were routed within 2 weeks in Idlib, the LNA in Lybia got destroyed and the Armenians (who had the most advanced air defenses) were rendered completely defenseless

I do not have the answer to how military superpowers would respond to this type of drone warfare, it will have to be seen in the future. What I am getting though from more knowledgeable people is that Russia would be able to take out the TB2s fairly quickly yet they would be able to do significant harm in the meantime

It is not the current generation of drones deployed in Armenia right now that should worry Russia because it's fairly safe to say they are able to deal with those (although the Harop suicide drone remains difficult to counter). It's the next generation of NATO drones that could become problematic

Contrary events that have happened
* obsolete OSA1 airdefenses (60 years old) were able to shoot down 62 drones (including 2 TB2s) during the conflict
* much more modern Russian air defenses were taken out rather quickly
* the high tech Russian Pole-21 jamming proved very efficient until the Turks found a way around it
* Russia has been using the Krasukha 4 (?) with great success in Syria
* Russia has been able to effectively take down all modes of military communication in Ukraine

Possible ways to combat drone warfare
* fortified/ subterranean positions (bunkers etc)
* SLAT armour for tanks and other heavy materiel (drones are precise but lack a heavy punch and the tanks etc. are not made for impact coming from above)
* Assymetrical warfare
* aforementioned electro magnetic railguns (which show great potential)
* electronic warfare (also shows great potential)
* more climate/weather based tactics (drones are largely useless in foggy or cloudy weather+ sandstorms)

Below is a translation from a Russian article. It talks about the events in Armenia and how Russia (or any other actor) can possible tackle these issues in the future

Russian short-range air defense systems are reliable only if they are properly operated

According to the results of the six-week war between Armenia and Azerbaijan, military experts almost unanimously declare the decline of the era of armored vehicles. The tank has turned into a kind of relict dinosaur, which is mercilessly beaten by drones, "who have won dominance in the sky in the new century." There are links to spectacular video feeds depicting the defeat of tanks by high-precision missiles launched by the Turkish Bayraktar TB2 attack and reconnaissance UAVs. Moreover, the statistics are drawn from Turkish newspapers, which advertise their Bayraktars with all their might so that they displace the Kalashnikov brand from the first position in the world ranking.

That is, it is argued that it was the drones that destroyed almost 130 Armenian tanks. Although on the Azerbaijani side, barrel artillery, and rocket artillery, and missile systems, and armored vehicles, and finally infantrymen with ATGMs took part in the war.

Arrow misses the target

Yes, Armenia's losses in this war are very significant. And if not for the truce with the introduction of peacekeepers, then the entire Nagorno-Karabakh could pass to Azerbaijan. But sometimes you can hear that the military equipment could have been preserved if Armenia had bought the Pantsir-S1 anti-aircraft missile-cannon systems (ZRPK). However, this is a delusion, since the "Shell" is a means related to the Air Defense Forces and is designed to protect stationary objects from air attacks. Tanks and other military equipment are defended by military anti-aircraft missile systems at their bases, on the march and during hostilities. Their distinctive feature lies in the use of tracked chassis for the ability to move over very rough terrain. And the air defense missile systems on wheeled chassis are adjusted to the guarded object, where they stand on alert.

Armenia has air defense systems capable of effectively fighting any drones, even with much more effective than the "middle peasant" "Bayraktar". They did not participate in the war. But first, about those air defense systems that fought and failed the defense, allowing Turkish and Israeli drones to smash Armenian military equipment. Although, unlike Azerbaijan, it is mostly Soviet, that is, it is far from new, and only slightly Russian.

The main burden of protecting the troops of Armenia and Nagorno-Karabakh was assigned to the air defense systems of the late 60s "Strela-10" and "Osa-AKM". And oddly enough, according to the results of the summer Armenian-Russian air defense exercises, Armenia was given a high readiness to repel air raids. The Osa-AKM air defense missile system was especially noted.

But in the very first week of the war, Turkish drones severely thinned the batteries of both of these complexes.

Because they were unable to fight the Bayraktar, whose ceiling is eight thousand meters, and the EPR (that is, radar signature) is in the area of 0.1 square meters or even lower. The maximum height for intercepting air targets for Strela-10 is only three thousand meters. At "Osa-AKM" this parameter reaches five thousand meters, but it is also unable to reach the Turkish drone.

True, when implementing the shock function, the drone, of course, has to sink below its ceiling. But even in this case, the chances of intercepting the drone from these two air defense systems are small. Because both of these complexes were created even before there were aircraft with reduced visibility. Such as drones, cruise missiles and airplanes built using stealth technology, which have an RCS of 0.1 square meter and below.

Having dealt with the military air defense systems without any problems, the drones proceeded to the unpunished destruction of tanks and other Armenian military equipment.

Armenians could stop Turkish drones

At the same time, Armenia possesses military complexes that would quickly put in place the Turks, who, in fact, ruled the Bayraktars from the territory of Azerbaijan. There was substantial assistance from Turkish territory, where an AWACS aircraft patrolled along the border with Armenia, transmitting the coordinates of the detected targets to the Azerbaijanis.

But the military air defense systems "Tor-M2KM" (short-range) and "Buk-M2E" (medium-range) were tightly tied to Yerevan and the Metsamor nuclear power plant. Of course, special attention should be paid to the protection of especially important facilities and territories. However, when planning the actions of the ground forces, deprived of effective means of repelling air attacks, it was possible to foresee the catastrophe of the fall of 2020.

Tor-M2KM is a modification of the air defense missile system, which was put into service in 2015. Equipped with eight missiles with a firing range of up to 15 kilometers and an interception height of up to 10 kilometers. Capable of detecting and shooting down targets with an RCS of 0.02–0.05 square meters. The missile maneuvers with an overload of 30 g, the maximum overload capacity of intercepted targets is 12 g. Speed - Mach 2.4. Radio command guidance. At the same time 48 targets are detected, followed by 10, fired at 4. As we can see, "Bayraktar" has no chance of surviving, having fallen into the range of this air defense system.

For the creation of the Buk-M2E air defense system to the developers of the complex from the Research Institute of Instrument Engineering named after V. V. Tikhomirov was awarded the prize of the Government of the Russian Federation in 2013. The maximum firing range is 45 kilometers. Interception is carried out at altitudes from 15 meters to 25 kilometers. It is capable of shooting down aerodynamic targets with speeds up to Mach 2.5, and ballistic targets up to Mach 4. Simultaneously fires up to 24 targets. EPR of intercepted targets - 0.05–0.07.

When these two complexes are removed away from the theater of operations, then talk begins that drones have opened a new era in the strategy and tactics of military operations.

Crawler-mounted MANPADS

Meanwhile, Russia continues not only to modify the existing military short-range and short-range air defense systems, but also to create new ones that would best solve both classical and new tasks of air and missile defense. In the summer of 2019, the Sosna short-range air defense missile system, developed at the Precision Engineering Design Bureau named after V.I. A.E. Nudelman. The complex was created to replace the Strela-10 air defense system, which was mentioned above. Strela has its merits. Its rocket is equipped with an infrared guidance head pre-cooled with liquid nitrogen. At the time the complex was created, it was, one might say, revolutionary. There was no need for radio command guidance of the missile at the target, everything worked according to the principle "fire - forget".

But the weakest point of Strela-10 is the primitive fire control system, that is, determining the coordinates of the target. The gunner looks out for the target through the sight eyepiece, directs the rangefinder beam at it, and the computing device determines its coordinates by the position of the sight axis and the target range. More precisely, the area of space in which the target is located is determined. And then the GOS does everything, capturing the target and directing the rocket at it. But this works at a small distance from the target, and when it is large, the "head" of the rocket may not detect the target. That is why Strela-10 has a very small interception radius, even in comparison with other short-range air defense systems: range - five kilometers, height - three kilometers. Even MANPADS, which work on the same principle, have better characteristics. For example, the "Verba" has a maximum firing range of 6 kilometers and a height of 3.5 kilometers. In this series, mention should be made of the American complex M1097 Avenger, created according to the "Cheap and Merry" principle. It is an armored army jeep with eight Stinger MANPADS missiles.

"Pine" to the ceiling

Sosna has significantly improved target detection and tracking mechanism. For this, an optoelectronic weapon control system is used, which has one television channel and two thermal imaging channels, differing in the operating wavelength. The rocket on the final leg of the route after separation of the main engine is guided by a laser beam. The probability of hitting a target increases due to the use of both a contact and a proximity fuse in the warhead. The complex is capable of operating both in automatic mode without the participation of the crew, and in semi-automatic mode, when some procedures are performed by the operator.

The guaranteed interception zone is 1.3–10 kilometers in range and 0.002–5 kilometers in height. The 9M340 rocket has excellent maneuverability, maintaining all its parameters at overloads up to 40 g.

The weapons control system, according to the developers, is equally capable of working not only at any time of the day, but in any weather. That is, negative atmospheric phenomena, of course, reduce her "vision", but to an insignificant extent.

Aircraft are detected at a distance of 30 kilometers, cruise missiles and drones - 12 kilometers. "Pine" can also hit ground targets, including tanks, for which among the various types of warheads there are also armor-piercing ones. The tank is detected at a distance of up to eight kilometers.

The rocket and instrument units are mounted on a tracked chassis - on a multi-purpose light armored tractor MT-LB. He is able not only to move over very rough terrain, but also to swim. This chassis variant is used to arm the Russian Ground Forces. When selling overseas, the buyer can choose the chassis he needs. The crew is two people. The combat vehicle is armed with 12 missiles in transport and launch containers.

"Sosna" compares favorably with those complexes in which the search for targets is carried out using radar. The radar unmasks the air defense missile system, which is fraught with the fact that an anti-radar missile will arrive from a distance unattainable for the air defense system. And not one, but several, which will be difficult to reflect. The optical locating system used in Pine does not send any waves into space. In this case, the complex can receive target designation from external sources.

The complex is equally capable of intercepting low-flying targets, going around the terrain, maneuvering and supersonic. As well as targets with a low ESR, its value does not matter for the optical location system. Due to the fact that the missile is guided by a laser beam, the enemy's electronic warfare means do not act on it. It also does not react to heat traps.

Promising complexes

Meanwhile, a promising air defense system "Ptitselov" is in line to infiltrate the military air defense structures. R&D work on its creation should be completed in 2022.

More precisely - there should be two "Birdies". The first is for the Airborne Forces, and it is being developed by airborne troops. It is created on the tracked chassis of the BMD-4M airborne combat vehicle. The second is for the Ground Forces. And it will be built on the BMP-3 tracked chassis.

And everything that is located on the chassis - the launcher, the fire control system, missiles, will be borrowed from the Sosna air defense system. That is, the principle of operation remains exactly the same. The precision engineering design bureau, engaged in these projects, is extremely sparingly giving out information about the appearance of both promising complexes. It is only known that the ammunition load will be supplemented with a new missile with a greater range and interception height. And we can only assume that in addition to this, some characteristics will be improved.

Another promising development should be completed soon. But not the air defense system, but the anti-aircraft artillery complex (ZAK) "Derivation-air defense" It was created on the basis of the BMP-3 tracked chassis with an uninhabited module, which houses a 57 mm cannon and a 7.62 mm machine gun paired with it. This caliber of tank guns of the Second World War in this century has become again in demand, gradually displacing the 30-mm cannon from circulation. It has significantly greater firepower and firing range, inaccessible to guns of traditional anti-aircraft and aviation calibers.

Moreover, this caliber was adapted to the creation of guided projectiles. For "Derivation-Air Defense" they were created by the Design Bureau of Precision Engineering, and the rapid-fire automatic cannon itself, together with the combat module, was developed at the Nizhny Novgorod Central Research Institute "Burevestnik". These projectiles are not controlled by the flight path, but by the moment of detonation. With remote detonation, flying fragments hit targets in a significant amount of space. Due to this, the result came close to that of anti-aircraft missiles. The probability of hitting a small target with two guided missiles with a sonic speed, like a cruise missile and a drone, is 0.8.

Gun ammunition - 148 rounds. Rate of fire - 120 rounds per minute. The firing range is 8-10 kilometers, the height is 4.5 kilometers.

In "Derivation-PVO", as in the "Sosna" air defense missile system, the fire control system is optical-electronic. That is, the complex does not unmask itself with any radiation. And this yes, in fact, and everything else, he differs from the closest "relative", more precisely - the "ancestor". In 1964, the ZAK "Shilka" was adopted, in which a radar was introduced into the sighting system to improve the accuracy of shooting. However, this was of little use. From four barrels "Shilka" releases 3400 shells of 23 mm caliber per minute. However, the firing range does not exceed 2.5 kilometers, the height is 1.5 kilometers. With such a range in modern conditions, "Shilka" is completely useless. However, she still continues to be in the army.

Everyone is waiting for the arrival of "Derivation-Air Defense", repeating, like a spell: here she will deal with the drones. However, the Russian army has enough different systems to deal with this pretty demonized aircraft now.

Vladimir Tuchkov

The newspaper "Military Industrial Courier", published in issue No. 45 (858) for November 24, 2020
 

Oberrheiner

 
Banned
Subjects I would like to be discussed (if somebody has any useful info of course) :
- tonoyan, drugs, azeri bribes, and him saying that drones are useless. As we saw ..
- the supposed 175 millions usd the diaspora sent to armenia for the war, which .. simply vanished ?
- france sending medics to azerbaidjian once the conflict ended. I thought macaron was on armenia's side ? in words at least.
- the armenia gov having promised (orally ? unclear) in 2016 to unconditionally return artsakh to azerbaidjian, so it was planned all along. Yet the elite let the people go there to die for nothing.
- do russians really have no drones because of supposedly missing components which only the west manufactures ? (and won't sell them).
- the ministry of defense buying missiles from serbia (date of manufacture 1955), which never exploded - apparently the azeris are still picking up hundreds of heads which did not detonate on impact. Price announced by the ministry 8 millions, price given by the serbs 4 millions. Of course ..
- georgia refusing to let russians weapons through to armenia.

I'm sure I'm forgetting some but that's already a good start I'd say.
 
It seems like the RUSSIA STRONKK!! crew has arrived.


1. Just highlighted the phrases above to show how contrarian your statements are


*Additional note: unless you are personally involved with highly classified Russian military R&E programs you are doing noone a service spreading false rumours.
It's not contrarian when it's well known fact that Russia has been working on anti-drone tech for decades and modernizes it's own domestic systems so that they are ahead of their export models.

lookey here for example: https://tass.com/defense/1193971

Why they did not sell this to Armenia is another matter. However had the previous pro-Russian Armenian administration been in charge I am pretty sure they would have been better equipped by Russia to deal with the Turkish drone threat.
The ceasefire doesn't hurt Russia, what comes after the ceasefire will hurt Russia

The statement that Azeris don't hold a grudge against Russia is fantasy. Russia is now occupying part of Azeri territory and has been the de facto protector of Artsakh/ Armenian ally for over 30 years. Add to that the Turkish alliance +post USSR/Warschau pact butthurt that seems to be a thing everywhere and you'll understand how things are

This is historic revisionism and needs to be countered

1. The Armenians and Russians had an oral agreement on Russia maintaining the peace in Artsakh in return for two Russian bases in Armenia+ pro-Russian policies

One might argue that Pasinyan threw that out of the window but the official agreements (CSTO/Minsk etc.) were never cancelled

Pasinyan destroyed any "oral agreement" by choosing to side with globalhomo West. Russia saved Armenia many times but he decided to go his own way and paid the price. Why should Russia do anything to help a Soros stooge especially after Russian weapon supplies and volunteers were so critical for Armenia winning the war in the 90s? What Pasinyan did was a Betrayal. Russia would look stupid if they supported him completely after backstabbing them.

There is a reason why Russia defended Assad but not Pasinyan. Assad actually knows his role very well on the world stage. Pasinyan did not.
'The Armenians have suffered for nearly a century under the Tsarists/Bolshewiks and therefor upon independance they should be thankful to Russia because the current borders - purposely splitting Armenian areas from Armenia - were drawn by the Soviets.'

Also take note that in historical sources 'Armenia' as a people and a state appear about 1200-1500 year before the 'Rus' appears.

This line of thinking is so out of touch with reality that I find it hard to wrap my ahead around it. I

Armenians constantly felt that they were somehow "too good" for Russia

I hope you are not indicative of the Russian Volksgeist here(assuming you are Russian) because I'd expect the average Russian to carry himself with a little more dignity

Your line of thinking is precisely why Russia did not see a need to defend Artsakh. Your claim about Armenia being older than Russia is hilarious as well. If you are talking about ancient Armenia then maybe. But Modern Armenia was essentially created through the efforts of Tsarist Russia which saved Armenians from Total Genocidal annihilation by the Ottoman Turks & then further consolidated by the Soviet Union which built up most of todays Armenian state institutions. This is a fact whether you like it or not. If It was not for Russia Yerevan right now would be a Turkish market for Armenian slave labour.

Meanwhile the current Russian Federation is a state with over a thousand years of continuity from Rurik to Putin.

Remember it's the Armenians who insult Russia by not displaying Russian flags during diplomatic meetings. Even the Azeris would not do such a thing... The pride and arrogance of the Armenians got to them and they were not able to see the reality of the situation. Even Armenian social media is full of people blaming the arrogance of Armenian politicians and Civic societies for the defeat against Azerbaijan by saying that they should have been more friendlier towards Russia and showed less hope towards the West which cannot help Armenia in any way shape or form.
Please look up how subversion and social engineering/predictive programming work (the favorite tool of any Sorosite). Blaming the Armenians for Pasinyan is like blaming the Russians for Yeltsin. Doesn't make any sense, there are outside forces at work here.

5. This take lacks geopolitical consciousness.

This conflict wasn't about Armenia, it was about Russia.

It is Russia getting attacked, by proxy. The 'ancient rivalry' perspective is only valid from the Azeri-Armenian angle. The overarching players here are NATO and Russia - the former constantly encroaching on and creating trouble for the latter

NK is yet another bushfire Putin had to stamp out (which he didn't manage to, because the current ceasefire is not sustainable). It's the 5th or 6th hot conflict one Russia finds itself drawn into. Also notice how these conflicts and 'revolutions' seem to happen in ever faster succession to each other

You don't understand the conflict that well. Russia historically has taken Armenias side but in reality would like to see a peaceful solution involving some sort of power sharing in the territory of Nagorno-Karabakh involving Russian troops. Russia has pretty much got what it wants and can use leverage to exert influence over both Armenia & Azerbaijan. Both States who should really be in the Russian sphere of global politics.
Within 6 months (and probably before that) we will see another conflict zone flare up with, as usual, Russia on the defensive. Belarus, Georgia, Moldova, Libya, Ukraine, Syria, NK, Kazakhstan - they are all fair game for the globalists

If that happens the Russophiles will no doubt come out of the woodwork again (here and especially elsewhere) claiming how Russia is actually winning, how Master Yoda Putin is such a skilled statesman and how the Russian military is unbeatable.

Yeah it's all Russia and Putins fault. If it was not for Putin the mighty Armenian army lead by Pasinyan & Macron & Soros would be eating Baklava in Istanbul right now. Get real Armenia is no superpower. It's a small state in a hostile region and needs to rely on Russia for it to win in any conflict because Turkey would always support Azerbaijan and Georgia is indifferent.

If Armenia accepted their role as another Russian protector state like Abkhazia and South Ossetia they would not have lost Arstakh. This is the harsh truth pill you refuse to swallow. Because of such political short sightedness that makes Rob Stark from Game of Thrones look like Machiavelli in comparison this is the reality on the ground right now:

 

La Águila Negra

Ostrich
Protestant
tonoyan, drugs, azeri bribes, and him saying that drones are useless. As we saw ..
Not sure what you're referring to here.

the supposed 175 millions usd the diaspora sent to armenia for the war, which .. simply vanished ?
These rumours are persistent. It's quite probable that these funds did indeed not reach the Artsakh IDPs or the Artsakh government

- france sending medics to azerbaidjian once the conflict ended. I thought macaron was on armenia's side ? in words at least
France has no right to sit at the big boys table. France was a part of the Minsk agreement and now somehow has deducted delusions of grandeur of it

Macron has been pretty pro-Armenia though. Not that it mattered cause the man is irrelevant - and he's probably the only not yet aware of it.

In recent days he's been accused of partisan behaviour by the Azeris.There is also the case being made (in the French Senate I believe?) of recognising Artsakh.

Any French gestures towards Azerbaijan are probably just that. Gestures to take the accusation of bias away.
- the armenia gov having promised (orally ? unclear) in 2016 to unconditionally return artsakh to azerbaidjian, so it was planned all along. Yet the elite let the people go there to die for nothing
Never heard of that before, you'll have to come with some sources

Note that this was also in the pre-Pasinyan era and the previous Armenian leadership has been quite vocal in their support for Artsakh.

Having said that, it's important to realize that not even Armenia contends the fact that NK is Azerbaijani territory. They have never acknowledged the Artsakh claim for independence nor have they claimed it as part of Armenia.
- do russians really have no drones because of supposedly missing components which only the west manufactures ? (and won't sell them).
The Russian weapon industry is one of the best and most advanced in the world. They are also heavily sanctioned, which makes Russia one of the most self-reliant states in the world (both in military and non-military aspects)

You are probably mixing Russia up with Turkey here. The Turkish 'drone industry' is basically an assembly line where foreign parts get screwed together

images (23).jpeg

Many countries and companies have embargoed the sale to Turkey of these parts. Turkey is now looking at Ukraine especially (because their quite advanced aviation industry) to fill up the gap.
the ministry of defense buying missiles from serbia (date of manufacture 1955), which never exploded - apparently the azeris are still picking up hundreds of heads which did not detonate on impact. Price announced by the ministry 8 millions, price given by the serbs 4 millions. Of course ..
Haven't heard of this before. The recent weapon deals are quite debatable though, most notably the purchase of a bunch of ancient OSA1 weapon systems from Jordania

Another mystery is the Russian Su-30s. Why did they not see any action, are they collectors items or what? Reaction from the Armenian Department of Defense : they had forgotten to buy the missiles for these jets..

georgia refusing to let russians weapons through to armenia.
This is true. The Georgians had closed their airspace for all military aircraft from all warring parties.

What they did, however, was allowing airplanes marked as carrying 'humanitarian goods' through their airspace. Both the Turks and the Israelis resupplied the Azerbaijan through Georgian airspace bringing in new loads of Syrian cannon fodder and new batches of drones

images (24).jpeg

It's also important to know that, opposite to what the poster above states, Georgia and Armenia have poor relations. On a political level Georgia is still butthurt over the 2008 Russo-Georgian war (with Armenia supporting the Russians) and on a public level there is some friction between the Armenians in Georgia (about 5 percent of the population) and ethnic Georgians.

It were, for example, the Armenian militias in Abkhazia that ethnically cleansed the Southern part of Abkhazia from the Georgians.

For the lulz: check out the Georgian proverb in the bottom right corner. Hilarious1601462683027m.jpg
 
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La Águila Negra

Ostrich
Protestant

It's not contrarian when it's well known fact that Russia has been working on anti-drone tech for decades and modernizes it's own domestic systems so that they are ahead of their export models.

lookey here for example: https://tass.com/defense/1193971

Why they did not sell this to Armenia is another matter. However had the previous pro-Russian Armenian administration been in charge I am pretty sure they would have been better equipped by Russia to deal 8with the Turkish drone threat.
Obviously the Russians are keeping the best stuff for themselves. Yet who doesn't? The TB2 is a second generation drone, from a technological viewpoint it's old already. The same applies to the Harop.

It's important not to start fantasing about the future whilst ignoring the now. Modern Russian air defenses just got smoked by what Russian analysts call peasant technology drones that were operated by second and third tier militaries. The Russian back up plan, Pole-21 EW was subsequently rendered useless by those same second and third tier militaries. It is also worth noting that the Russians ran a combat readiness test for the Armenians in 2019. Their assessment: high.

The Russians had ample time to study Turkish drone warfare in Syria and Libya, but it didn't seem as if they took note. Let's hope the message sticks this time.

It is unfortunate that Russia's R&D projects should be seen in this light, yet necessary. Aside from that the Pishchal-PRO that was mentioned in the article that you provided (+also the Sapsan-Bekas and Kupol-PRO) are at this point complete mysteries and in their developmental phases.

Having said that I'd be happy to see Russia buff up its anti-drone defenses and get itself back together. Make those TB2s drop out of the sky by the dozens. However at this point there is much more work to do than you are willing to admit.
Pasinyan destroyed any "oral agreement" by choosing to side with globalhomo West. Russia saved Armenia many times but he decided to go his own way and paid the price. Why should Russia do anything to help a Soros stooge especially after Russian weapon supplies and volunteers were so critical for Armenia winning the war in the 90s? What Pasinyan did was a Betrayal. Russia would look stupid if they supported him completely after backstabbing them.
Russia has never 'saved' Armenia. That's just nonsense.

During the early 90s Russia was in no position whatsoever to dictate anything. Russia was cut open like a pig in the slaughterhouse, the people were robbed of their pride, the country was looted inside out and the nation was turned into a nation of prostitutes, beggars and drunks. It was a playground for the oligarchs/globalists and for years it was the laughing stock of the world.

It was during these years that the Russian military had to concede an absolutely embarrassing defeat on its own territory against Chechen headchoppers and a wide variety of foreign bearded monkeys. That same Russian military (2 000 000 men personnel) was at that point, due to insane corruption, poor morale and administrative inefficiency, not able to put more than 150 000 men in the field.

In fact it was Russia, after it had managed to take its head out of the gutter for the first time in 4 years, that pressured the Armenians into signing a treaty with the Azeris. The Armenians had at that point taken all the surrounding areas of NK and had the opportunity to take Nakchechivan - an opportunity they will probably never have again. Armenian military leaders boasted of taking Baku to avenge the anti-Armenian pogroms of 1918 and especially 1990. That's what the situation was like.

There is a reason why Russia defended Assad but not Pasinyan.

Not really. The Iranians defended Assad with everything they got and the Russians sat on the sideline Putin-style for 4 years.

Four years. That's 1400+ days. If we count from today onwards that means Trump's second term will nearly be finished by that time.

When Putin finally decided it was time to support his 'ally' , Syria had been destroyed. 400 000 people were dead. 3 million people had fled abroad. 10 million people were internally displaced. Whole cities were reduced to rubble. The social fabric of society was completely gone. The economy was in shatters due to warfare and devastating sanctions.

By the time Putin decided to intervene in Syria, Iran had been keeping Syrian afloat by a razor thin margin - and the scale was starting to tip against them. Hezbollah shock troops were deployed all across the country, the IRGC had taken over the military planning/controlling vital infrastructure, thousands of IRGC members killed (including the IRGC's Nr. 2 Hossein Hamedani), tens of thousand proxy fighters were deployed, billions of USD grants, free oil shipments etc etc..

When Russia came in it took the spotlights and changed the course of the war with minimal effort. However that does not take away that it was Iran that did all the dirty work. It is for this reason that Syria has now become an Iranian satelite state, and not a Russian.

Assad actually knows his role very well on the world stage. Pasinyan did not.

From 2001 onwards Assad's Syria was part of the CIA Rendition Program which meant that the CIA had 'Black spots' (extra-judicial prisons) on Syrian territory. The CIA had made Syria one of its vital hubs for this program which meant that they were likely involved in other activities as well.

So was Assad a good ally? Not really. You need to stop looking at this from a 'morality prism'. There is no morality in geopolitics, only winning and losing. Russia went in not because Assad was a good boy but becauee they needed a port in the Mediterranean, a foothold in the Middle East and a Shia Crescent that could obstruct NATO.

Your line of thinking is precisely why Russia did not see a need to defend Artsakh. Your claim about Armenia being older than Russia is hilarious as well. If you are talking about ancient Armenia then maybe. But Modern Armenia was essentially created through the efforts of Tsarist Russia which saved Armenians from Total Genocidal annihilation by the Ottoman Turks & then further consolidated by the Soviet Union which built up most of todays Armenian state institutions. This is a fact whether you like it or not. If It was not for Russia Yerevan right now would be a Turkish market for Armenian slave labour.
Of course I am talking about ancient Armenia.

The Russian Empire sat on the sideline whilst one of the worst genocides in human history was ongoing. That's hardly a praiseworthy feat, especially when calling yourself 'Protector of all Orthodox Christendom'. It gets more embarrassing when one realises this title was especially aimed at the Christians in the Ottoman Empire.

The little slither of Armenian territory that was under Russian occupation was likewise subjected to anti-Armenian policies. When the communists* took over it escalated into purges, anti-Christian violence and famines. But somehow the Armenians, who never asked for his, should be thankful because..?

*Interesting that you claim the USSR as Russian. On here it's common to claim it is a Jewish invention (as claimed by Solzhenetsin and Dostoevsky)

Meanwhile the current Russian Federation is a state with over a thousand years of continuity from Rurik to Putin.
The Russian Federation was founded in 1991.

I don't mean to be pedantic but the Russian Federation is not the same as the USSR/ Russian Empire/Kiev Rus etc.

There have also been centuries of Turkic/Altaic rule over Russia, which left a significant genetic footprint. Should the Russians be thankful towards the Mongols/Golden Horde Turks too?
Remember it's the Armenians who insult Russia by not displaying Russian flags during diplomatic meetings. Even the Azeris would not do such a thing... The pride and arrogance of the Armenians got to them and they were not able to see the reality of the situation. Even Armenian social media is full of people blaming the arrogance of Armenian politicians and Civic societies for the defeat against Azerbaijan by saying that they should have been more friendlier towards Russia and showed less hope towards the West which cannot help Armenia in any way shape or form
Armenia doesn't display Russian flags, true. Not very smart. But Azerbaijan shoots Russian helicopters out of the sky, breaks treaties, cuddles up with main antogoniser Erdo and permits CIA, Mossad and MI-6 to operate from its soil. NATO/Turkish bases might come in the future

The rest is something I agree with

You don't understand the conflict that well. Russia historically has taken Armenias side but in reality would like to see a peaceful solution involving some sort of power sharing in the territory of Nagorno-Karabakh involving Russian troops. Russia has pretty much got what it wants and can use leverage to exert influence over both Armenia & Azerbaijan. Both States who should really be in the Russian sphere of global politics
Nato.

NATO.

NATO.

It is quite ironic that you accuse me of not understanding the conflict whilst completely ignoring the main player.

N-A-T-O

What Russia wants is irrelevant. It is not in a position to lay down the law anywhere. Not even in its own backyard as you can see.

NATO treats the Russian Federation as the direct successor of the USSR. Likewise it's raison d'etre is molded around doing to the Russian Federation what it did to the USSR in 1990-1992. It has now evolved into open warfare on Russia's borders yet Putin seems to hold back

NATO's strategy of expantionism is built around creating an Iron Fence. Russia needs to be surrounded by NATO bases. They incite civil unrest in Russia friendly states+ border nations. They stir up anti-Russian feelings, and demonise Russian culture /history/ people. They engage in economic warfare by sanctions.

NATO is doing a tremendous job. In my opinion this conflict was another net win. The ceasefire is unsustainable as NATO/Turkey were largely left out - there are daily violations already. It's only a matter of time before the Azeris chimp out - no doubt supported by Turkey/NATO. When that happens Putin will have to do what he's been trying to avoid these past weeks. The unfortunate thing is that till that day the Armenians will have to live in limbo
Yeah it's all Russia and Putins fault. If it was not for Putin the mighty Armenian army lead by Pasinyan & Macron & Soros would be eating Baklava in Istanbul right now. Get real Armenia is no superpower. It's a small state in a hostile region and needs to rely on Russia for it to win in any conflict because Turkey would always support Azerbaijan and Georgia is indifferent
Weird strawman. Don't know who you are arguing with but it's definitely not me. Where and when have I ever said anything remotely similar to that?
If Armenia accepted their role as another Russian protector state like Abkhazia and South Ossetia they would not have lost Arstakh. This is the harsh truth pill you refuse to swallow. Because of such political short sightedness that makes Rob Stark from Game of Thrones look like Machiavelli in comparison this is the reality on the ground right now:
No, they probably would have lost Artsakh anyway. The NATO angle proves that. However, the timeline would have been different as the attack would probably have been delayed by some years.

The more this conflict unfolds the more I am convinced that the Armenians had no winning strategy available- unless you count holding out against a vastly superior military +backer as one.

Also chuckled at you mentioning Abkhazia and South Ossetia, two break away statelets recognized by noone but Russia itself. Two blackholes with no investment, a huge population loss, a literally worthless passport and a hostile official 'owner'

That's not where anyone wants to be.
 
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Muscovite

Robin
Orthodox
"The military defeat inflicted on Armenia by Azerbaijan was not a fluke, but rather a manifestation of the perfection of the art of drone warfare by Baku’s major ally in the fighting, Turkey. Gressel’s conclusion – that “most of the [European Union’s] armies… would do as miserably as the Armenian Army” when faced by such a threat – is spot on."

 

La Águila Negra

Ostrich
Protestant
Shenanigans.


Armenians and Azeris about 10 meters apart from each other near the Sotk goldmine.


Turns out that the Russians will vacate the area around Davidank in a couple of days (in accordance with the 10 November Agreement).


Promovideo for Chinese kamikazedrones that approach in swarms. If the Armenians have some coins left it might be a good option together with Wing Loong


'.. After they ignored the warning signs'

 
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