The Nagorno-Karabakh conflict thread (Armenia vs Azerbaijan)

RWIsrael

Woodpecker
I wouldn't be so hard on the troops getting hit.
It takes time for both soldiers and chain of command (giving the orders) to mentally transfer from "we are at a tense time but so far everything is normal" to "we are at all-out war".
You may have patrolled that same route for the last 5 years with nothing happening, but suddenly there is enemy activity.
Especially if you're just transiting reinforcements to the staging area (not at the front line yet) and generally not expecting to be attacked in that location.
Fog of war is a real thing.
 
This isn't going to be a popular reply to this thread but a few important things need to be said.
Some here may think it is a religious conflict (“Christian v Muslim”) The truth is, it is mainly a ethnic conflict (Armenian v Azeri). Most Armenian in the (post-Soviet) Armenia are not remotely religious …equally most Azeris in the (post-Soviet) Azerbaijan are not religious at all.

Hardly anyone seem to know that when the Karabakh first broke out on full-scale in 1991 it was actually mostly the Iranian government who supplied the Armenian rebels with weaponry and ammunition. (Their governemnt denied it, of course)Simply because the Iranian government was worried a strong Azerbaijan would mean an increase in the Azeri nationalist feeling amongst Iran’s ethnic Azeris (23% of Iran’s population).
Their worries were unfunded as ethnic Azeris in Iran remained loyal to Iran – there was no real armed separatist movement.

Just for you to say, the conflict is not as one-dimensional is straightforward as some here may see it.
 

wannable alpha

Woodpecker
This isn't going to be a popular reply to this thread but a few important things need to be said.
Some here may think it is a religious conflict (“Christian v Muslim”) The truth is, it is mainly a ethnic conflict (Armenian v Azeri).
Maybe there is some truth to what you say. But Erdoğan has certainly made it a religious one. To completely take over Nagorno-Karabakh would involve shedding a lot of Azeri blood which they are unlikely to do. Seems like Turkey's end game is to put "peace keepers" in the area. Sultan Erdoğan is certainly in empire-building mode.
 

La Águila Negra

Kingfisher
The Armenian defenses seem to be able to absorb the attacks quite well (although much is still unclear and the Azeris have made some minor progress)

Which leads me to believe that they had prior intel of the surprise attack (speculation). Could be the Armenian/Artsakh intelligence picking up on noise on the other side of the border, or more likely, the intel was provided by the Russians

Some serious armor losses for the Azeris in the first two days




First ATGM is a miss


Russian made TOS heavy flamethrower spotted. Would have been a great kill for the Armenians


28 deaths on the Armenian side today. Yesterday 32 deaths were reported
 
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Arado

Pelican
Gold Member
Maybe there is some truth to what you say. But Erdoğan has certainly made it a religious one. To completely take over Nagorno-Karabakh would involve shedding a lot of Azeri blood which they are unlikely to do. Seems like Turkey's end game is to put "peace keepers" in the area. Sultan Erdoğan is certainly in empire-building mode.
Also lots of Pakistanis on Twitter have come out strongly for Azerbaijan and Indians for Armenia. Weird.

One other point is that Azerbaijan is mainly Shia, not Sunni so there may introduce some potential rifts. Yet Turkey (mainly Sunni?) views them as compatriots, or at least favors them over the Armenians, who they tried to genocide back in WW1 and still don't have relations with. Interesting how most countries out there haven't apologized for their historical atrocities.

(Decent historical drama set during Armenian genocide period - The Promise).
 
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Elipe

Woodpecker
Also lots of Pakistanis on Twitter have come out strongly for Azerbaijan and Indians for Armenia. Weird.
Given the current tensions between India and Pakistan, I'm not surprised the Indians want to flip the Pakistani and their sand people brethren the bird.

But my prayers are also with Armenia. They are based, and I would like to see another one of Turkey's allies bite the dust. Turkey's continued existence, and on top of that, their status as a NATO member is an affront to all that is good. It would also be nice if we could retake Constantinople...
 
Given the current tensions between India and Pakistan, I'm not surprised the Indians want to flip the Pakistani and their sand people brethren the bird.

But my prayers are also with Armenia. They are based, and I would like to see another one of Turkey's allies bite the dust. Turkey's continued existence, and on top of that, their status as a NATO member is an affront to all that is good. It would also be nice if we could retake Constantinople...
The Russians almost did but the Brits got in the way.
 

Arado

Pelican
Gold Member
Given the current tensions between India and Pakistan, I'm not surprised the Indians want to flip the Pakistani and their sand people brethren the bird.

But my prayers are also with Armenia. They are based, and I would like to see another one of Turkey's allies bite the dust. Turkey's continued existence, and on top of that, their status as a NATO member is an affront to all that is good. It would also be nice if we could retake Constantinople...
I understand the sectarianism, by weird I meant neither side has the power projection capabilities to impact the conflict but they are among the most vocal on twitter.

Other things of note


Interesting about Serbia. The dividing lines here are far from clear.

 
Who will the US support? Easy: whomever is the least Christian. Do you remember the Satanic Tom Lantos 'Holocaust survivor' - congressman who pushed the US into bombing Serbia because he thought it would show muslims that we are their friends and it would be good for Israel?
Remember 'our' foreign policy is not our foreign policy.
 
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La Águila Negra

Kingfisher

Compilation of Azerbaijani (read Turkish) drone strikes on Armenian positions

The technological edge the Azeri/Turkish side has over the Armenians is too big to counter with fervour or patriotism

Even if the Armenians knew the enemy was coming, once they moved their own heavy material out in the open they became sitting ducks

The only way the Armenians will be able to limit the territorial loss is through Moscow (and maybe Teheran)
 
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Unfortunately, Armenia too has been the victim of international Jewish manipulation, like most Christian states.

Some backstory:

Immediately after gaining independence, the first president was sworn in (Levon Ter-Petrosyan). This man had defied every ethnic and religious tradition of Armenians and married a Russian-Jewish woman. With his family now effectively Jewish, his loyalties were no longer aligned with the direction that the Holy See of Etchmiadzin would've wished to take.

The first round of the Nagorno-Karabakh war:

The autonomous republic was an enclave of Azerbaijan, yet still officially an autonomous republic. When it declared independence following the collapse of the USSR, Azerbaijan did not accept it, so separatist groups were formed to defend the area. This eventually led to the first war lasting between 1992 and 1994. Scores of Armenians from Armenia and abroad volunteered to fight in the war, succeeding to not only secure Nagorno-Karabakh itself, but also the regions around it, effectively connecting it to Armenia.

The then defence minister of Armenia (an ardent nationalist) - against the wishes of the president - introduced the slogan: "Next Stop, Baku" and also launched probing invasions against the Azeri exclave of Nakhcivan.

Facing mounting losses, the Azeri regime called for ceasefire negotiations through Tehran. So, the traitor president flew to Iran and agreed to return all surrounding territories in exchange for a ceasefire that may or may not have lead to the final determination of the status of Nagorno-Karabakh. Agreements were signed (Mid-1992) and orders were issued for withdrawal of Armenian troops from the surrounding territories. Once the orders reached the Armenian defence minister, they were torn and a counter-order issued to resume the fighting.

The president effectively landed in Yerevan, learning of the breach of the ceasefire while he was in the air.

Given no Azeri successes and major advances, an "as-is" ceasefire was eventually agreed to in 1994, but the president had already demonstrated his true colors and lost the trust of the politicians and the people.

Back to Politics

Ter-Petrosyan was pushed out of the office - through elections - by a former military commander of the Nagorno-Karabakh war (Robert Kocharyan), who became the second president of the Republic of Armenia and stabilized the situation, while not pursuing any criminal charges against Ter-Petrosyan. But, as we know, (((they))) do not forgive and do not forget.

This first president went to work behind the scenes to create political movements and media establishments to develop narratives for a push to retake control of the country. Thus, enter the current prime minister, Nikol Pashinyan, a protegé and former party comrade of the first president.

Only after his "velvet" (((revolution))) did it become known that this new leader of a Christian country had fathered 4 children with his partner, without either a legal or religious marriage (which was quickly addressed once people complained). As his first actions, his government financed an LGBT documentary, announced plans to introduce EU-based sexual assault laws, hinted at changes to the Constitution with the intent to redefine the definition of marriage between a man and a woman, and led the efforts to bring forth corruption charges against and imprisonment for the second president - charges that the courts have not been able to prove up to this day. Talmudic revenge is a thing, folks.

While he went on verbally attacking the Holy See of Etchmiadzin, he also damaged the ties with Russia and Iran, while announcing plans to open an Embassy in Israel.

And that brings us to the current state of affairs. A liberal/progressive government that has managed to weaken ties with the only regional states (Russia and Iran) who could render assistance, while playing into the hands of the US and Israel.

Finally, if you are wondering what happened to the original, nationalist defence minister: He was gunned down in parliament, with Ter-Petrosyan's progressive media channels trying to develop a conspiracy theory that it was the second president's doing to eliminate competition.

I pray for our Christian brothers and sisters in Armenia. I pray for the broader world to learn not to allow Jewish individuals or Jewish elements to infiltrate and weaken their governments.
 

Elmore

Kingfisher
Turkey was a NATO member in 1974 when it made an unprovoked attack of Cyprus, commited atrocities against the Christian Cypiots and drove them from the north side of the island, which they've occupied ever since.

It shows you how cucked the West is to their apparently vital geo-political placing in the region that they continually get away with this crap.
 

La Águila Negra

Kingfisher




Live map of the region

Turkey was a NATO member in 1974 when it made an unprovoked attack of Cyprus, commited atrocities against the Christian Cypiots and drove them from the north side of the island, which they've occupied ever since.

It shows you how cucked the West is to their apparently vital geo-political placing in the region that they continually get away with this crap.
Turkey can get away with sh*t like this because of its geographical importance

The foreign policy of the US in the region is primarily aimed at containing, and encroaching on Russia. Through the Bosporus Turkey/NATO has the potential to hold Russia in a vital choke hold. What Turkey does on its own is of secondary importance, as long as they don't cosy up with Russia too much

Mad Dog Erdo has been playing the US and Russia against each other like a grandmaster. Combined Russian/Turkish patrols in Syria, buying the Russian S400 weapon system, holding secret trilateral meetings with Iran and Russia on the region's future, etc.

Every time he wants something from the USA he draws closer to the Russians in the months ahead. The Turkish invasion in Syria was succeeded by months of Turko-Russian cooperation. The moment Erdo launched his invasion the US ditched their favvs the PKK in no time. Erdo knows Turkey's worth

Mad Dog Erdo does the same with Russia. Putin wants to slowly move Turkey away from NATO by giving in to some of Erdo's demands. It isn't really working

He does the same to Germany/ the EU of course, by holding them ransom with 3 million rapefugees ready to storm the Southern EU border

Every time Erdo pulls off a new stunt I silently hope that this will be the one time he'll slip and fall flat on his face. It never happens. Germany/ the EU always cuck out. Assad was propped up by Russia/Iran but he got more territory in northern Syria anyway. The Iraqis turn a blind eye to Turkish incursions (and occupation) in their Kurdistan Region. The Egyptians/Emiratis cucked out when Erdo routed their strongman Haftar in Lybia .

Putin let him off the hook several times when he purposely attacked Russian positions in Syria. The same goes for the US

I believe what he is doing now in Armenia will go unpunished too, unfortunately. Turkey's relevance for Russia is just too high. They aren't going to militarily intervene directly. Maybe the Russians will send some weaponry, share some Intel and dispatch some special forces but will it be enough?

Maybe when he starts invading Greece's naval territory in the Aegean See(he has been stirring up sh*t there too) the US will step in. I won't even rule it out. He has said he will. Erdo is a simple man, he fulfills his promises (that's why he is so popular)

This man is a scourge for the region. I am afraid this is only the beginning
 
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Immediately after gaining independence, the first president was sworn in (Levon Ter-Petrosyan). This man had defied every ethnic and religious tradition of Armenians and married a Russian-Jewish woman. With his family now effectively Jewish, his loyalties were no longer aligned with the direction that the Holy See of Etchmiadzin would've wished to take.
It is truly astonishing how they seem to end up the 'court jews' no matter what the administration or government - Trump's nationalist populist platform created by Bannon becomes Kushner's platform to move the US embassy to Jerusalem, something not even George Bush's neocon administration would have to guts to do.

I believe it really boils down to IMF-Central International banking - power is centralized there so no matter what venu - Silicon valley, 'color' revolutions, MSM, hollywood, it ends up looking the same.
 

Saul Bellow

Pigeon
The Russians almost did but the Brits got in the way.
Russia deserved to lose the Crimean War in turn for the cruel and evil Tsarist pogroms against the Pale of Settlement. It was so inflicted upon the Allies who knew the the Ottomans were the deserving one to keep the peace around the Black Sea. So said Benjmain Disraeli — possibly the most adroit and righteous man ever to rule the British Empire — it was "a just but unnecessary war".
 
Russia deserved to lose the Crimean War in turn for the cruel and evil Tsarist pogroms against the Pale of Settlement. It was so inflicted upon the Allies who knew the the Ottomans were the deserving one to keep the peace around the Black Sea. So said Benjmain Disraeli — possibly the most adroit and righteous man ever to rule the British Empire — it was "a just but unnecessary war".
Consistently globalists have supported muslims against Christians. For all her faults, Russia has never done this.
 

fokker

Pelican
The Azeri government posted a meme mocking Armenia and calling Armenia-supporters "soyboys", to which the Armenian one responded by modifying Azerbaijan's meme to mock that country instead.

 
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