The Nephilim

Palestrina

 
Banned
Trad Catholic
Much is spoken on the topic of angels, but little in the way of true doctrine is understood. Many who call themselves Christians have drunk deeply from the well of New Age paganism. Since the Great Apostasy, people get their ideas from all the wrong places. New Agers teach that angels reside within us and are waiting for us to use them to tap our human potential, enhance creativity, provide psychological fulfillment, and spiritual self-enlightenment. Promoters of "angel contact" offer people what they want and need in troubled times: assurance, love, and guidance. It is a warped view of Guardian Angels. A few years ago, a gentleman at my Church told me about a time when he saw large bones he claimed belonged to beings conceived of angels and human females called the "Nephilim." There are some Protestant sects that actually believe this to be the case. It is based on a misunderstanding of Genesis 6:4. I didn't have time to discuss the issue with the gentleman that day (and I haven't seen him since). This post will give the Church's teaching on angels, and explain the so-called Nephilim.


1. In the beginning of time God created spiritual essences out of nothing. It is a dogma declared by the Fourth Lateran Council and the First Vatican Council that "simultaneously at the beginning of time He created from nothing both spiritual and corporeal creation, angelic and mundane." The creation of the angels is directly attested to in Colossians 1:16, "For in him were all things created in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominations, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him and in him." (Four of the angelic choirs are mentioned).

2. The number and hierarchy of the angels. There is no definitive teaching on how many angels exist, although it is certain they are very numerous. Apocalypse 5: 11, "I heard the voice of many angels...and the number of them was thousands of thousands." The so-called "orders" or "choirs" of angels are not an article of faith, but the theologians hold it to be a theologically certain truth. The theological schools have put them into three hierarchies with three choirs in each hierarchy. The supreme hierarchy has the Seraphim, Cherubim, and Thrones. The intermediate hierarchy is composed of the Dominations, Virtues, and Powers. The lowest hierarchy is made of the Principalities, Archangels, and Angels. It is speculated that the difference in rank is due to the supreme hierarchy assisting at the Throne of God and getting their orders directly from Almighty God Himself. They then hand these orders down to the intermediate hierarchy which, in turn, hands them down to the lowest hierarchy, and the angels bring messages (when necessary) to men. The name angel means "messenger."

3. The angels have an intellect superior to men and are endowed with free will. The angels were given a test, like humans, to earn the Beatific Vision. They were subjected to a probation which a number failed and became demons in Hell. The angels are vastly superior to humans, but cannot produce a true miracle which is something only God can do. The leader of the rebellious angels became known as "Satan" or "adversary" and it is conjectured that approximately one third of the angels followed his rebellion against God, Who created and condemned them to Hell. What was the test? We don't know for certain. Most theologians agree it was a sin of pride. Some theologians speculate that they did not want to serve God. Other theologians, most notably the great Suarez, teach that the sin of pride was in refusing to obey and worship God the Son when it was made known He would take on a human nature (Hypostatic Union).

4. Every human being has a Guardian Angel who should be venerated and invoked. There are four points on this:
  • Angels have a general guardianship over the human race. It is good and salutary to pray to them and venerate them. All humans, not just members of the One True Church are given a Guardian Angel upon conception. Theologians agree that even the Antichrist will have a Guardian Angel, but all his efforts to turn him from utter wickedness will be in vain because of the sheer perversity of his will.It is to be rejected that every person also has a demon to tempt him. It is impious to even think God, Who wills the salvation of all, would permit it.​
  • Guardian Angels ward off dangers of body and soul consonant with the Will of God.​
  • They inspire good and salutary thoughts and covey our prayers to the Throne of God.​
  • They assist us at the hour of death and bear the souls of the elect to Heaven.​
Genesis 6: 2-4 reads, "The sons of God seeing the daughters of men, that they were fair, took to themselves wives of all which they chose. And God said: My spirit shall not remain in man for ever, because he is flesh, and his days shall be a hundred and twenty years. Now giants were upon the earth in those days. For after the sons of God went in to the daughters of men, and they brought forth children, these are the mighty men of old, men of renown."

From this verse, comes the idea of a "race of supermen" half-angelic, and half-human. According to theologian Tanquerey, there are many errors concerning angels. Their very existence is denied by atheists, and some Protestants who claim that the angels in the Bible are either good inspirations sent by God, or men sent by God to enlighten others. On the other hand, Some of the Fathers and early theologians were in error regarding the nature of angels, thinking they were united to special bodies. They were led astray by either Platonic philosophy or the verse at hand which they misinterpreted. It is certain that angels are entirely spiritual. (Tanquerey, Dogmatic Theology (1:372)). Thus the angel Raphael says to Tobias, "I seemed indeed to eat and to drink with you: but I use an invisible meat and drink, which cannot be seen by men." From this we may infer that angels do not have a body but only an apparent body.

Since angels do not have bodies, how does the Church interpret the passage? According to theologian Haydock, "sons of God" refers to the godly line of Seth (from whom the Redeemer would come; see Genesis 4:26) who intermarried with the godless line of Cain. At that time, people were preserved by God for long lives; some more than 900 years. God would now shorten their lives to 120 years for them to repent before He would send the great deluge. As far as size is concerned, is it possible that men who lived so much longer, could also have been much bigger in stature? Think of Goliath. It is pagan, and illogical, to think spiritual substances can have carnal relations with humans producing "heroes" much like the pagan Greeks believed about Hercules. Christ said, "For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven." (St. Matthew 22:30).

As with all things theological, we must always consult the teaching of the Church. Those who do not seek out the true doctrine as taught by the Church's theologians on any given issue will fall in error (at best) or into heresy (at worst). The danger becomes apparent in the case of angels. Modernists and atheists outright deny their existence. New Agers turn them into self-help gurus from within, and promote "contact" with them in what will become contact with demons. Others distort the Bible believing in pagan-like "demi-gods" (Nephilim) derived from the alleged union between angels and humans. Pray to your Guardian Angel and ask him to help you learn, and love, authentic Church teaching on any given subject.
 
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OrthoMexicano

 
Banned
Orthodox Inquirer
Much is spoken on the topic of angels, but little in the way of true doctrine is understood. Many who call themselves Christians have drunk deeply from the well of New Age paganism. Since the Great Apostasy, people get their ideas from all the wrong places. New Agers teach that angels reside within us and are waiting for us to use them to tap our human potential, enhance creativity, provide psychological fulfillment, and spiritual self-enlightenment. Promoters of "angel contact" offer people what they want and need in troubled times: assurance, love, and guidance. It is a warped view of Guardian Angels. A few years ago, a gentleman at my Church told me about a time when he saw large bones he claimed belonged to beings conceived of angels and human females called the "Nephilim." There are some Protestant sects that actually believe this to be the case. It is based on a misunderstanding of Genesis 6:4. I didn't have time to discuss the issue with the gentleman that day (and I haven't seen him since). This post will give the Church's teaching on angels, and explain the so-called Nephilim.


1. In the beginning of time God created spiritual essences out of nothing.

It is a dogma declared by the Fourth Lateran Council and the First Vatican Council that "simultaneously at the beginning of time He created from nothing both spiritual and corporeal creation, angelic and mundane." The creation of the angels is directly attested to in Colossians 1:16, "For in him were all things created in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominations, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him and in him." (Four of the angelic choirs are mentioned).

2. The number and hierarchy of the angels. There is no definitive teaching on how many angels exist, although it is certain they are very numerous. Apocalypse 5: 11, "I heard the voice of many angels...and the number of them was thousands of thousands." The so-called "orders" or "choirs" of angels are not an article of faith, but the theologians hold it to be a theologically certain truth. The theological schools have put them into three hierarchies with three choirs in each hierarchy. The supreme hierarchy has the Seraphim, Cherubim, and Thrones. The intermediate hierarchy is composed of the Dominations, Virtues, and Powers. The lowest hierarchy is made of the Principalities, Archangels, and Angels. It is speculated that the difference in rank is due to the supreme hierarchy assisting at the Throne of God and getting their orders directly from Almighty God Himself. They then hand these orders down to the intermediate hierarchy which, in turn, hands them down to the lowest hierarchy, and the angels bring messages (when necessary) to men. The name angel means "messenger."

3. The angels have an intellect superior to men and are endowed with free will. The angels were given a test, like humans, to earn the Beatific Vision. They were subjected to a probation which a number failed and became demons in Hell. The angels are vastly superior to humans, but cannot produce a true miracle which is something only God can do. The leader of the rebellious angels became known as "Satan" or "adversary" and it is conjectured that approximately one third of the angels followed his rebellion against God, Who created and condemned them to Hell. What was the test? We don't know for certain. Most theologians agree it was a sin of pride. Some theologians speculate that they did not want to serve God. Other theologians, most notably the great Suarez, teach that the sin of pride was in refusing to obey and worship God the Son when it was made known He would take on a human nature (Hypostatic Union).

4. Every human being has a Guardian Angel who should be venerated and invoked. There are four points on this:
  • Angels have a general guardianship over the human race. It is good and salutary to pray to them and venerate them. All humans, not just members of the One True Church are given a Guardian Angel upon conception. Theologians agree that even the Antichrist will have a Guardian Angel, but all his efforts to turn him from utter wickedness will be in vain because of the sheer perversity of his will.It is to be rejected that every person also has a demon to tempt him. It is impious to even think God, Who wills the salvation of all, would permit it.​
  • Guardian Angels ward off dangers of body and soul consonant with the Will of God.​
  • They inspire good and salutary thoughts and covey our prayers to the Throne of God.​
  • They assist us at the hour of death and bear the souls of the elect to Heaven.​
Genesis 6: 2-4 reads, "The sons of God seeing the daughters of men, that they were fair, took to themselves wives of all which they chose. And God said: My spirit shall not remain in man for ever, because he is flesh, and his days shall be a hundred and twenty years. Now giants were upon the earth in those days. For after the sons of God went in to the daughters of men, and they brought forth children, these are the mighty men of old, men of renown."

From this verse, comes the idea of a "race of supermen" half-angelic, and half-human. According to theologian Tanquerey, there are many errors concerning angels. Their very existence is denied by atheists, and some Protestants who claim that the angels in the Bible are either good inspirations sent by God, or men sent by God to enlighten others. On the other hand, Some of the Fathers and early theologians were in error regarding the nature of angels, thinking they were united to special bodies. They were led astray by either Platonic philosophy or the verse at hand which they misinterpreted. It is certain that angels are entirely spiritual. (Tanquerey, Dogmatic Theology (1:372)). Thus the angel Raphael says to Tobias, "I seemed indeed to eat and to drink with you: but I use an invisible meat and drink, which cannot be seen by men." From this we may infer that angels do not have a body but only an apparent body.

Since angels do not have bodies, how does the Church interpret the passage? According to theologian Haydock, "sons of God" refers to the godly line of Seth (from whom the Redeemer would come; see Genesis 4:26) who intermarried with the godless line of Cain. At that time, people were preserved by God for long lives; some more than 900 years. God would now shorten their lives to 120 years for them to repent before He would send the great deluge. As far as size is concerned, is it possible that men who lived so much longer, could also have been much bigger in stature? Think of Goliath. It is pagan, and illogical, to think spiritual substances can have carnal relations with humans producing "heroes" much like the pagan Greeks believed about Hercules. Christ said, "For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven." (St. Matthew 22:30).

As with all things theological, we must always consult the teaching of the Church. Those who do not seek out the true doctrine as taught by the Church's theologians on any given issue will fall in error (at best) or into heresy (at worst). The danger becomes apparent in the case of angels. Modernists and atheists outright deny their existence. New Agers turn them into self-help gurus from within, and promote "contact" with them in what will become contact with demons. Others distort the Bible believing in pagan-like "demi-gods" (Nephilim) derived from the alleged union between angels and humans. Pray to your Guardian Angel and ask him to help you learn, and love, authentic Church teaching on any given subject.

First Ortho teaching firm on subject. First angel only 1 of 9 bodiless invisible power in the universe. There are other not very known and have angel,archangel, thrones, cherubim, seraphim, dominions, and other. They have different function some just praise God other interact with human.

Second angel very numerous, way more than we even believe. See father spyridon here.

Art angel only imagine they true bodiless spirit being who travel visible invisible.

 

OrthoMexicano

 
Banned
Orthodox Inquirer
O Holy Angel, who stand by my wretched soul and my passionate life: do not abandon me, a sinner, neither depart from me because of my lack of self-control. Leave no room for the evil demon to gain control of me through the violence of this mortal body. Strengthen my weak and feeble hand, and instruct me in the path of salvation. O holy Angel of God, the guardian and protector of my wretched soul and body: forgive all the sorrows I have caused you, every day of my life. If I have sinned in this past night, protect me during this day. Keep me from every adverse temptation, that I may not anger God by any sin. Pray to the Lord for me, that He may establish me in His fear and make me, His servant, worthy of His goodness. Amen.
 

The Beast1

Peacock
Orthodox Inquirer
Gold Member
Much is spoken on the topic of angels, but little in the way of true doctrine is understood. Many who call themselves Christians have drunk deeply from the well of New Age paganism. Since the Great Apostasy, people get their ideas from all the wrong places. New Agers teach that angels reside within us and are waiting for us to use them to tap our human potential, enhance creativity, provide psychological fulfillment, and spiritual self-enlightenment. Promoters of "angel contact" offer people what they want and need in troubled times: assurance, love, and guidance. It is a warped view of Guardian Angels. A few years ago, a gentleman at my Church told me about a time when he saw large bones he claimed belonged to beings conceived of angels and human females called the "Nephilim." There are some Protestant sects that actually believe this to be the case. It is based on a misunderstanding of Genesis 6:4. I didn't have time to discuss the issue with the gentleman that day (and I haven't seen him since). This post will give the Church's teaching on angels, and explain the so-called Nephilim.


1. In the beginning of time God created spiritual essences out of nothing. It is a dogma declared by the Fourth Lateran Council and the First Vatican Council that "simultaneously at the beginning of time He created from nothing both spiritual and corporeal creation, angelic and mundane." The creation of the angels is directly attested to in Colossians 1:16, "For in him were all things created in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominations, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him and in him." (Four of the angelic choirs are mentioned).

2. The number and hierarchy of the angels. There is no definitive teaching on how many angels exist, although it is certain they are very numerous. Apocalypse 5: 11, "I heard the voice of many angels...and the number of them was thousands of thousands." The so-called "orders" or "choirs" of angels are not an article of faith, but the theologians hold it to be a theologically certain truth. The theological schools have put them into three hierarchies with three choirs in each hierarchy. The supreme hierarchy has the Seraphim, Cherubim, and Thrones. The intermediate hierarchy is composed of the Dominations, Virtues, and Powers. The lowest hierarchy is made of the Principalities, Archangels, and Angels. It is speculated that the difference in rank is due to the supreme hierarchy assisting at the Throne of God and getting their orders directly from Almighty God Himself. They then hand these orders down to the intermediate hierarchy which, in turn, hands them down to the lowest hierarchy, and the angels bring messages (when necessary) to men. The name angel means "messenger."

3. The angels have an intellect superior to men and are endowed with free will. The angels were given a test, like humans, to earn the Beatific Vision. They were subjected to a probation which a number failed and became demons in Hell. The angels are vastly superior to humans, but cannot produce a true miracle which is something only God can do. The leader of the rebellious angels became known as "Satan" or "adversary" and it is conjectured that approximately one third of the angels followed his rebellion against God, Who created and condemned them to Hell. What was the test? We don't know for certain. Most theologians agree it was a sin of pride. Some theologians speculate that they did not want to serve God. Other theologians, most notably the great Suarez, teach that the sin of pride was in refusing to obey and worship God the Son when it was made known He would take on a human nature (Hypostatic Union).

4. Every human being has a Guardian Angel who should be venerated and invoked. There are four points on this:
  • Angels have a general guardianship over the human race. It is good and salutary to pray to them and venerate them. All humans, not just members of the One True Church are given a Guardian Angel upon conception. Theologians agree that even the Antichrist will have a Guardian Angel, but all his efforts to turn him from utter wickedness will be in vain because of the sheer perversity of his will.It is to be rejected that every person also has a demon to tempt him. It is impious to even think God, Who wills the salvation of all, would permit it.​
  • Guardian Angels ward off dangers of body and soul consonant with the Will of God.​
  • They inspire good and salutary thoughts and covey our prayers to the Throne of God.​
  • They assist us at the hour of death and bear the souls of the elect to Heaven.​
Genesis 6: 2-4 reads, "The sons of God seeing the daughters of men, that they were fair, took to themselves wives of all which they chose. And God said: My spirit shall not remain in man for ever, because he is flesh, and his days shall be a hundred and twenty years. Now giants were upon the earth in those days. For after the sons of God went in to the daughters of men, and they brought forth children, these are the mighty men of old, men of renown."

From this verse, comes the idea of a "race of supermen" half-angelic, and half-human. According to theologian Tanquerey, there are many errors concerning angels. Their very existence is denied by atheists, and some Protestants who claim that the angels in the Bible are either good inspirations sent by God, or men sent by God to enlighten others. On the other hand, Some of the Fathers and early theologians were in error regarding the nature of angels, thinking they were united to special bodies. They were led astray by either Platonic philosophy or the verse at hand which they misinterpreted. It is certain that angels are entirely spiritual. (Tanquerey, Dogmatic Theology (1:372)). Thus the angel Raphael says to Tobias, "I seemed indeed to eat and to drink with you: but I use an invisible meat and drink, which cannot be seen by men." From this we may infer that angels do not have a body but only an apparent body.

Since angels do not have bodies, how does the Church interpret the passage? According to theologian Haydock, "sons of God" refers to the godly line of Seth (from whom the Redeemer would come; see Genesis 4:26) who intermarried with the godless line of Cain. At that time, people were preserved by God for long lives; some more than 900 years. God would now shorten their lives to 120 years for them to repent before He would send the great deluge. As far as size is concerned, is it possible that men who lived so much longer, could also have been much bigger in stature? Think of Goliath. It is pagan, and illogical, to think spiritual substances can have carnal relations with humans producing "heroes" much like the pagan Greeks believed about Hercules. Christ said, "For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven." (St. Matthew 22:30).

As with all things theological, we must always consult the teaching of the Church. Those who do not seek out the true doctrine as taught by the Church's theologians on any given issue will fall in error (at best) or into heresy (at worst). The danger becomes apparent in the case of angels. Modernists and atheists outright deny their existence. New Agers turn them into self-help gurus from within, and promote "contact" with them in what will become contact with demons. Others distort the Bible believing in pagan-like "demi-gods" (Nephilim) derived from the alleged union between angels and humans. Pray to your Guardian Angel and ask him to help you learn, and love, authentic Church teaching on any given subject.
This belief comes from those who read The Book of Enoch where Fallen Angels indeed did mate with human females. It's an old Jewish book considered non canonical that has a smattering of references throughout the NT. It is considered canon to Ethiopian Christians. Not arguing just stating historical details.
 
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NoMoreTO

Hummingbird
Catholic
I did listen to the book of Enoch the other day, ready by this fellow. It's quite the book, lots of content about the Angels, Nephilem etc.

 

tailoredcarnivore

Pigeon
Agnostic
I would like to suggest to that trying to understand all of the above in referencing earlier old testament texts and even some texts outside the Bible in order to get "the Church's stance on this" is akin to walking up to a very large Tree [of Life] and, in to order to do the same (get the Church's stance on said Tree), you end up taking a shovel and/or other tools to find a single partially above-ground root section to progressively dig it out of the ground, at least partially, and subsequently use the exposed root section (which is just a sliver of the *entire* root structure) to get a deeper & more complete picture of the substance of the above-ground Tree [of Life].

In my allegorical example, what I'm actually referring to is the Bible being the singular exposed root you've dug into up against the whole of Cabalah/Judaism as the above-ground Tree [of Life]. Most don't fully understand that the Torah is the whole picture of both the above-ground "Good" Sephirotic Tree of Life and its otherwise *unseen but still necessarily obviously there* in-ground root system i.e. an inversion of the Tree above the ground.
If you could visually flip the picture of the Tree upside down and portend to have the root system out of the ground fully exposed so you could examine both the Tree itself and the root system as a whole, there you'd be able to actually see the fullest substance of the Torah in order to be able to get an accurate answer to your respective actual question here on "The Church's stance".

Of course, to actually do this in practical reality, you'd need to leverage access to texts such the Talmud & Zohar which act as the necessary bulldozers required to have the power to effectively uproot the entire thing out of the ground so that you even could examine it in such a fashion.

It is only once you've done this where you can see the fullest nature of what all of those earlier texts in Genesis are really referencing since they're actually inverted veiled allegories to the substance of cabalah/Judaism's Good Sephirotic Tree of Life AND The Tree of Knowledge of Good & Evil as it's called in Genesis.

Pfew...hope that connects w/ out compelling rejection of my response here via broad cognitive dissonance. I digress...

You just can't really get a complete picture of what those verses truly portend to reference in their allegorical meanings necessarily because, as it's presented in the Bible, you can't see that it's *THE* inverted root system of The Sephirotic Tree of Life. Even if you could see it, it would challenge the basic underpinnings of the very faith required to accept tenets of Christianity on its face.
Queue the inbound cognitive dissonance...I digress yet again

Those verses are basically referencing a deeper mythological mish mash of the actual substance of cabalah/judaism's dualistic nature in that the Tree of Life above ground is the true 'realm of holiness', or Sitra D'kedusha, where are everything truly good & holy comes from vs the inverted root system, or Sitra Achara/Tree of Knowledge of Good & Evil (these 2 "sitra" terms are the fullest substance of ancient mythological Cabalah/Judaism which portends to establish the entire foundation of Christianity & the Torah which the New Testament is a necessary fulfillment of).
You can research Sitra Kedushah v Sitra Achara w/ a simple google search but it won't exactly show you necessary interpretations of both in their fullest context to understand a combined picture of its historical v modern relevancy simply bc, akin to a stealth bombing attack where you feel the hit but can't see where it came from, you're not supposed to see it. You're not even supposed to understand that it is an attack. The very "stealth" nature of it as stealthy is a necessary requirement of it so that you don't really sense that a deadly attack is incoming. Otherwise, you'd understand that it's stealthy and begin to take cover against the mistakenly perceived conscious understanding by nearby fellows as no threat of attack actually existing. You'd look like a fool. Kinda like I do in my response....ONE MORE TIME, I digress...

To the bottom line: Those verses referencing Angels find the daughters of men fair and breeding with them portend the basis of giants called The Nephilim which are actually mythological allegorical references to what Cabalists view the subtext of the cross-universe/"other side"/Sitra Achara to be. Those "angels" are talking about Samael & Lillith, or, the "evil" inverted nature of Yahweh as guardians of the Tree of Knowledge of Good & Evil who descended down from the above ground Tree of Life on the back of a serpent to keep Adam & Eve from ascending up the Tree in order to acquire "the knowledge of Good & Evil". It's the entire subtext of the Fall of Man as interpreted from Sitra Kedushah which defines Sitra Achara. Also, terms such as "Kelipah Nogah" (Divine sparks) vs "Kelipot" (shells of impurity) are interchangeable w/ Sitra Kedusha vs Sitra Achara.
When John suggests that Jesus Christ was present *before creation* (John 1:1-18), this is what he's referencing: Jesus is Samael/Lillith/Guardian angel of the Evil cross-universe sitra Achara of the Gentiles. Again, you'd have to use the bulldozers of the Talmud & Zohar to understand that John 1:1-18 is indeed calling the "pre-creation Jesus Christ" the guardian angel of The Tree of Knowledge of Good & Evil. Indeed, it makes sense, tho, considering those verses are detailing a form of knowledge that is given to the Gentiles in the form of Christ when presenting him as Logos/Gnosis, or, The Word.
Jesus riding into Jerusalem on the back of donkey is a type of allegory to the very same interpretation of Samael/Lillith riding down the Tree on the back of a serpent, if you'll even consider it in that context.
Please follow along if you can. This is not my belief, necessarily, but a regurgitation of *theirs*.

So, in summary, the Church's stance on the Nephilim could never be fully understood w/ out these necessary keys to unlock it from the perspective of Cabalah/Judaism whereby the fullest subtext of "the Faith" emanates from.

If you've made it this far in my response w/ out being compelled to cognitive dissonance, I'd recommend researching it further but good luck with that in the age of a curated internet where you'd naturally attempt to find such answers. You won't find them easily.
Instead, you'll likely see reactions to my response which castigate me as a heretic/divider/FOOL who is suggesting that there's an inbound stealth attack while you & any nearby detractors are necessarily unable to sense the attack, well, because it's STEALTH and you've been duped by it as such.
 

Palestrina

 
Banned
Trad Catholic
Nephilim were simply large people. Just as people no longer live 900 years, people don't become that large. It seems to have been the children of Seth who intermarried with the godless line of Cain.

According to theologian Haydock, "It is likely the generality of men before the flood were of a gigantic stature, in comparison with what men are now. But theses here spoken of, are called GIANTS, as being tall in stature, but violent and savage in disposition and mere monsters of cruelty and lust...There have been giants of unusual size, all historians testify." So, not all were massive, only some. Not all giants were against God, but these hybrids from the godly and ungodly lines, seem to have given themselves over to evil.

As for the Book of Enoch, it’s not part of the Canon of Scripture. It really adds nothing to the discussion as it is not inspired and contains many errors. I wouldn't pay heed to Enoch, but one must take seriously the inspired Book of Genesis!
 

Hypno

Crow
That's simply not correct. Genesis says that they were the offspring of something other than men. Genesis 6:4 states The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went in to the daughters of humans, who bore children to them. These were the heroes that were of old, warriors of renown.

The Bible refers to them as Nephilim. According to Numbers 13:33, they later inhabited Canaan at the time of the Israelite conquest of Canaan, and Goliath may have been Nephilim.

I'm not an expert on the Book of Enoch or any of its supposed errors, but its description of the Nephillim is consistent with the account in Genesis, and it explains that they are the offspring of "watchers", probably fallen angels, who mated with female humans.

And it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied that in those days were born unto them beautiful and comely daughters. And the angels, the children of the heaven, saw and lusted after them, and said to one another: "Come, let us choose us wives from among the children of men and beget us children." And Semjaza, who was their leader, said unto them: "I fear ye will not indeed agree to do this deed, and I alone shall have to pay the penalty of a great sin." And they all answered him and said: "Let us all swear an oath, and all bind ourselves by mutual imprecations not to abandon this plan but to do this thing." Then sware they all together and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it. And they were in all two hundred; who descended in the days of Jared on the summit of Mount Hermon, and they called it Mount Hermon, because they had sworn and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it ...

In addition to Enoch, the Book of Jubilees (7:21–25) also states that ridding the Earth of these Nephilim was one of God's purposes for flooding the Earth in Noah's time. These works describe the Nephilim as being evil giants.
 

Palestrina

 
Banned
Trad Catholic
BOOK OF GENESIS, Chapter 6:

[1] And after that men began to be multiplied upon the earth, and daughters were born to them, [2] The sons of God seeing the daughters of men, that they were fair, took to themselves wives of all which they chose. [3] And God said: My spirit shall not remain in man for ever, because he is flesh, and his days shall be a hundred and twenty years. [4] Now giants were upon the earth in those days. For after the sons of God went in to the daughters of men, and they brought forth children, these are the mighty men of old, men of renown.

[2] "The sons of God": The descendants of Seth and Enos are here called sons of God from their religion and piety: whereas the ungodly race of Cain, who by their carnal affections lay grovelling upon the earth, are called the children of men. The unhappy consequence of the former marrying with the latter, ought to be a warning to Christians to be very circumspect in their marriages; and not to suffer themselves to be determined in their choice by their carnal passion, to the prejudice of virtue or religion.

[3] "His days shall be": The meaning is, that man's days, which before the flood were usually 900 years, should now be reduced to 120 years. Or rather, that God would allow men this term of 120 years, for their repentance and conversion, before he would send the deluge.

[4] "Giants": It is likely the generality of men before the flood were of a gigantic stature in comparison with what men now are. But these here spoken of are called giants, as being not only tall in stature, but violent and savage in their dispositions, and mere monsters of cruelty and lust.
 

The Beast1

Peacock
Orthodox Inquirer
Gold Member
I would like to suggest to that trying to understand all of the above in referencing earlier old testament texts and even some texts outside the Bible in order to get "the Church's stance on this" is akin to walking up to a very large Tree [of Life] and, in to order to do the same (get the Church's stance on said Tree), you end up taking a shovel and/or other tools to find a single partially above-ground root section to progressively dig it out of the ground, at least partially, and subsequently use the exposed root section (which is just a sliver of the *entire* root structure) to get a deeper & more complete picture of the substance of the above-ground Tree [of Life].

In my allegorical example, what I'm actually referring to is the Bible being the singular exposed root you've dug into up against the whole of Cabalah/Judaism as the above-ground Tree [of Life]. Most don't fully understand that the Torah is the whole picture of both the above-ground "Good" Sephirotic Tree of Life and its otherwise *unseen but still necessarily obviously there* in-ground root system i.e. an inversion of the Tree above the ground.
If you could visually flip the picture of the Tree upside down and portend to have the root system out of the ground fully exposed so you could examine both the Tree itself and the root system as a whole, there you'd be able to actually see the fullest substance of the Torah in order to be able to get an accurate answer to your respective actual question here on "The Church's stance".

Of course, to actually do this in practical reality, you'd need to leverage access to texts such the Talmud & Zohar which act as the necessary bulldozers required to have the power to effectively uproot the entire thing out of the ground so that you even could examine it in such a fashion.

It is only once you've done this where you can see the fullest nature of what all of those earlier texts in Genesis are really referencing since they're actually inverted veiled allegories to the substance of cabalah/Judaism's Good Sephirotic Tree of Life AND The Tree of Knowledge of Good & Evil as it's called in Genesis.

Pfew...hope that connects w/ out compelling rejection of my response here via broad cognitive dissonance. I digress...

You just can't really get a complete picture of what those verses truly portend to reference in their allegorical meanings necessarily because, as it's presented in the Bible, you can't see that it's *THE* inverted root system of The Sephirotic Tree of Life. Even if you could see it, it would challenge the basic underpinnings of the very faith required to accept tenets of Christianity on its face.
Queue the inbound cognitive dissonance...I digress yet again

Those verses are basically referencing a deeper mythological mish mash of the actual substance of cabalah/judaism's dualistic nature in that the Tree of Life above ground is the true 'realm of holiness', or Sitra D'kedusha, where are everything truly good & holy comes from vs the inverted root system, or Sitra Achara/Tree of Knowledge of Good & Evil (these 2 "sitra" terms are the fullest substance of ancient mythological Cabalah/Judaism which portends to establish the entire foundation of Christianity & the Torah which the New Testament is a necessary fulfillment of).
You can research Sitra Kedushah v Sitra Achara w/ a simple google search but it won't exactly show you necessary interpretations of both in their fullest context to understand a combined picture of its historical v modern relevancy simply bc, akin to a stealth bombing attack where you feel the hit but can't see where it came from, you're not supposed to see it. You're not even supposed to understand that it is an attack. The very "stealth" nature of it as stealthy is a necessary requirement of it so that you don't really sense that a deadly attack is incoming. Otherwise, you'd understand that it's stealthy and begin to take cover against the mistakenly perceived conscious understanding by nearby fellows as no threat of attack actually existing. You'd look like a fool. Kinda like I do in my response....ONE MORE TIME, I digress...

To the bottom line: Those verses referencing Angels find the daughters of men fair and breeding with them portend the basis of giants called The Nephilim which are actually mythological allegorical references to what Cabalists view the subtext of the cross-universe/"other side"/Sitra Achara to be. Those "angels" are talking about Samael & Lillith, or, the "evil" inverted nature of Yahweh as guardians of the Tree of Knowledge of Good & Evil who descended down from the above ground Tree of Life on the back of a serpent to keep Adam & Eve from ascending up the Tree in order to acquire "the knowledge of Good & Evil". It's the entire subtext of the Fall of Man as interpreted from Sitra Kedushah which defines Sitra Achara. Also, terms such as "Kelipah Nogah" (Divine sparks) vs "Kelipot" (shells of impurity) are interchangeable w/ Sitra Kedusha vs Sitra Achara.
When John suggests that Jesus Christ was present *before creation* (John 1:1-18), this is what he's referencing: Jesus is Samael/Lillith/Guardian angel of the Evil cross-universe sitra Achara of the Gentiles. Again, you'd have to use the bulldozers of the Talmud & Zohar to understand that John 1:1-18 is indeed calling the "pre-creation Jesus Christ" the guardian angel of The Tree of Knowledge of Good & Evil. Indeed, it makes sense, tho, considering those verses are detailing a form of knowledge that is given to the Gentiles in the form of Christ when presenting him as Logos/Gnosis, or, The Word.
Jesus riding into Jerusalem on the back of donkey is a type of allegory to the very same interpretation of Samael/Lillith riding down the Tree on the back of a serpent, if you'll even consider it in that context.
Please follow along if you can. This is not my belief, necessarily, but a regurgitation of *theirs*.

So, in summary, the Church's stance on the Nephilim could never be fully understood w/ out these necessary keys to unlock it from the perspective of Cabalah/Judaism whereby the fullest subtext of "the Faith" emanates from.

If you've made it this far in my response w/ out being compelled to cognitive dissonance, I'd recommend researching it further but good luck with that in the age of a curated internet where you'd naturally attempt to find such answers. You won't find them easily.
Instead, you'll likely see reactions to my response which castigate me as a heretic/divider/FOOL who is suggesting that there's an inbound stealth attack while you & any nearby detractors are necessarily unable to sense the attack, well, because it's STEALTH and you've been duped by it as such.
This was a startlingly good read and a succinct take on Jewish mysticism.

I sought out the book of Enoch because of new testament references to him. I don't recall his name ever being mentioned in my religious school studies or ever in a sermon. The book itself is complementary to Genesis and I found it interesting that Luther included it in his German bible and the Ethiopians actually hold it as canon.

I said it in another thread, but Ill say it here: there really isn't much to be gained from these other than a scholarly appreciation for the beginnings and past of our faith. It's easy to get lost by these "ancient heresies" if you aren't ready.

I just have a curiosity for the past and enjoy reading ancient texts.
 
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