The new cold war with China

M

MovingForward2050

Pelican
I am starting a thread for the China/America cold war situation.

The number one external problem for America, is certainly China. Americans are waking up to the fact that China is using a combination of a strong growing economy, expert espionage/technology theft, cyber-warfare, huge investment in tech research and development, economic soft power, expert propaganda, bullying of our allies and neutral powers, and a massive military build-up, to attempt to take the place of the United States, as the greatest and most influential nation state in the world. As their economy grows and their technological abilities advance, we must not underestimate them. They are building an impressive military, to eventually rival ours, with much of the tech stolen from us. They are hellbent on taking back Taiwan, and plan to do so within the next decade or two.

In many ways, we have sold them the very rope, that they want to hang us with... And as they plan and move forward in their schemes, America is deeply conflicted and confused.

I thought this was a short but well written article about the current state of affairs...

thefederalist.com

We’re In A New Cold War, This Time With China

In our exultation, we forgot to finish the job. Communism lived on in mainland China, and is once again challenging the free world for dominance.
thefederalist.com thefederalist.com
 
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Looking at the first Cold War its laughable how many advantages the US had over the Soviet Union.

-Soviet Union had limited economic clout and zero clout with US companies

-Soviet Union had just come off a devastating war with Germany

-American had a ton of goodwill coming off WWII

-America produced the most attractive pop culture

-Hollywood was lefty but still was compelled by public demand to produce movies that had the Soviet Union as the main enemy

-A core of white citizens that were strongly patriotic along with non-whites who either were also patriotic or just fell into line

All those advantages are gone now.
 
I've always figured one of our biggest national security problems is that we hand out security clearances to Chinese people as long as they have US citizenship. Seems like more often than not when I read of an espionage case the culprit is a fake American from China who was trusted with classified information simply because he has papers. One of the many evils of civic nationalism and the melting pot lie.
 
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Pretty big

I don't believe the Deep State narrative on the Uyghur question. Yes, there are camps where subversive elements (ie. bearded guys that dream of establishing a caliphate and murdering/subduing the unbelievers) are held. No, it's not nearly on the scale the propaganda wants you to believe. I also don't believe that people are being held simply for being Uyghur or Muslim in general. The fog of war surrounding it leaves a lot up for speculation though

There is an insane amount of propaganda being pushed. The Uyghur question has been weaponised to stir up civil unrest in China, be it religious or nationalistic in nature. It directly undermines China's 56 nations one country policy. It also serves to whip up anti-Chinese fervor abroad and at home in the US.

The US policy in Xinjiang stands in a long tradition of green-on-red policy (weaponizing Islamists versus communists). They did it in Afghanistan, Chechnya, Bosnia and until a couple of years ago in Syria too.

The best example is US subversion in Central Asia. When Gorbatsjov launched glasnost and perestroika the Deep State reacted immediately by fueling nationalist and radical Islamic ideologies. The Sovjets, like the Chinese, had achieved a remarkable level of ethnogenesis. Based on stalinist principles they had erased previous identities and established the Soviet identity

My former Iranian professor once told me a story about an encounter with a group of Central Asian students. He'd ask for their nationality. 'Soviet', they said. He said, 'yes but where are you are you from?'. 'We are from the Soviet Union' they answered. 'Yes, but I mean, what's your nationality, your race? ', he asked again. 'WE ARE SOVJETS! ' was their final answer

The erasing of cultural identities and languages, and the adjusting of the Islamic (and Christian) religion to bring them in line with Socialist Principles, is the Party's goal

The Deep State is trying to prohibit that by fomenting internal unrest and spreading foreign and anti-communist ideologies. They want to divide China, make it burn from within.

I am not sure whether their plan is working. Uyghurs in general are a rogue element in Chinese society. Most of them operate kebab and flatbread stalls, and many of them will overcharge you when they have the chance. In Shanghai nightclubs you can find them outside dealing drugs. In the upscale Shanghai district Xintiandi they operate pickpocketing rings. The local Han Chinese are scared of them. The police turns a blind eye because they don't want to disturb societal harmony. If they do get caught they are out the same day.

Sometimes it boils over. You won't read about it in the news, of course. Rural locals in Henan, Shaanxi or Anhui don't put up with that kind of behavior. Mob killings still happen. If it happens though the script is usually flipped a couple of days later in the Uyghur majority areas in the Tarim Basin. Tit for tat, these Uyghurs still have a very tribal mindset

Funny addition: if you are a White person with dark eyes and hair, like myself, some Chinese will assume that you are Uyghur. The Tocharian element in their DNA gives can give some of them a very European look. A blue/grey eyed Uyghur with lightbrown hair is rare, but they do exist

As for the infusion of radical Islamic thought by Islamic preachers through Deep State channels, I think it is having some success. A couple of months before the Covid19 scamdemic started I travelled to Xian, Lanzhou and Xining. Granted, that is Hui Muslim heartland but the amount of visible Muslims, and their mannerism and dresscode pointed to many adhering to the Salafist strain. The many mosques (usually founded between 1995 and 2015, China doesn't allow that anymore) tell a similar story. Arabic design, and built with money from the Gulf region
 
China is only in its current position because everything has been handed to them; industry, technology, etc. Clearly a move by the elite to make them the next superpower due to their genetic predisposition to conformity, compliance, and existing style of government. The only way they would actually become the next superpower is if the US was in such disarray internally that it could not effectively fight them. Well hot damn looks like that's happening now.

TLDR: Yes China will be the next superpower, and probably soon. However it's not so much them surpassing the US as it is the US being handicapped to allow it.
 
kamoz said:
China is only in its current position because everything has been handed to them; industry, technology, etc. Clearly a move by the elite to make them the next superpower due to their genetic predisposition to conformity, compliance, and existing style of government. The only way they would actually become the next superpower is if the US was in such disarray internally that it could not effectively fight them. Well hot damn looks like that's happening now.

TLDR: Yes China will be the next superpower, and probably soon. However it's not so much them surpassing the US as it is the US being handicapped to allow it.
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Big American corporations worship at the altar of huge new markets to sell their products. And China provided just that, and so when China told American companies to share their manufacturing/technology techniques/secrets to get permission to sell in China, deals with the Communist Devil were made. The rather astounding belief was that American technological progress could always stay a step or two ahead of China, despite us giving so much away, that we had spent fortunes to develop! And as China pours almost more money than we do into R & D, we see China rapidly catching up in commercial and military areas, where we thought we would forever have an impressive lead.
 
Tech takeovers feed into China Cold War fears

"But security experts caution the UK has been late to the issue.

It comes amid growing concern about the risk of China buying high-tech companies, especially in the economic turmoil resulting from the coronavirus pandemic.

At the height of the crisis, a boardroom manoeuvre nearly went unnoticed.

And it flared up into a row that goes to the heart of on an increasingly contentious issue - has the UK failed to stop high-tech industries passing into Chinese hands?"

www.bbc.com

Tech takeovers feed into China Cold War fears

The UK plans measures to restrict the sale of its technology companies - but is it acting too late?
www.bbc.com
 
MovingForward2050 said:
Big American corporations worship at the altar of huge new markets to sell their products. And China provided just that, and so when China told American companies to share their manufacturing/technology techniques/secrets to get permission to sell in China, deals with the Communist Devil were made. The rather astounding belief was that American technological progress could always stay a step or two ahead of China, despite us giving so much away, that we had spent fortunes to develop! And as China pours almost more money than we do into R & D, we see China rapidly catching up in commercial and military areas, where we thought we would forever have an impressive lead.
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That's more true of European companies, China has managed to leverage its market size to extract maximum technology transfer from them, across a range of high added-value industries like auto, rail, electronics etc. American companies are primarily driven by their cost-cutting to generate more profit for their shareholders.


kamoz said:
China is only in its current position because everything has been handed to them; industry, technology, etc. Clearly a move by the elite to make them the next superpower due to their genetic predisposition to conformity, compliance, and existing style of government. The only way they would actually become the next superpower is if the US was in such disarray internally that it could not effectively fight them. Well hot damn looks like that's happening now.

TLDR: Yes China will be the next superpower, and probably soon. However it's not so much them surpassing the US as it is the US being handicapped to allow it.
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This is mostly true, US oligarchs have enabled China's economic rise. They have created the conditions for its role as the world's manufacturer, with American big capital chasing more profits by outsourcing to China and Mexico.

But you must understand that the motive is not entirely financial, there was a deliberate deindustrialization and gutting of the American middle class, with the destruction of tens of millions of well-paying jobs for American and western males. A population of well-off middle class with strong families headed by fathers with good jobs is an "unruly" one, from their globalist perspective. This is a crucial aspect about the rise of China that most people don't get.

This is also when the left in the West shifted from a champion of labor to identity politics, This change started in the 1970s and what we see today is this policy fully unwinding. We have also had further deliberate destruction of the western economies and the entrepreneurial middle class through covid policies. More debt slavery in the form of huge bailouts to banksters, small businesses killed off.

China has played the cards it was dealt very well. It's not so much about "their genetic predisposition to conformity, compliance, and existing style of government", it's more about their Confucian values, nationalism and millennia-old mercantile culture pragmatically reemerging from their Maoist experiment. Their government seeks to foster wealth and stability for its citizens in order to buttress its own stability. In other words, the interests of the Chinese government and ruling class and those of its people are largely aligned, contrary to what has been the dynamic in the West.

That's the main reason we are headed to a cold war, the globalists LOVED China when it was a repressive communist country that destroyed its cultural heritage, blurred gender roles, had no technical innovation and culled its population by the tens of millions. Right now, they are a bit schizophrenic about China, while they LOVE the kind of unbridled technocracy China has, they are increasingly uneasy about its growing power, and about China reasserting its cultural roots and rebuilding its nation on a solid foundation. That part is definitely not what they wanted for China.
 
Globalists are worried because Xiping (Xi jiping) named himself ruler for life. Also probably because China is feeding Iran. And Iran is feeding Venezuela. China is a counterpower and the positive of chinese model is for some reason communists decided not to break family. Chinese are family oriented. But on the other hand chinese are the most superficial, materialistic people on earth. They´re god is money. They have no soul. Only mindless drones regurgitating chinese propaganda with predatory economical thinking. The success of China is engineered by western society. Uncontrolled theft of R&D. Don´t think China can create anything. Maybe develop technology until hitting a roadblock.

And now Xiping decided to standup to his masters. Maybe he was placed with his known traits for this to happen. Guess what? innocent people from western countries will be called upon to topple CCP. Just like what happened to Saddam and Gaddafi in recent times. Xiping is the next Gaddafi. But I don´t think they will destroy the country. Because their´s too much wealth in there. Weapons of mass destruction=Coronavirus. Probably just remove Xiping and place a puppet.
 
Troller said:
Globalists are worried because Xiping (Xi jiping) named himself ruler for life. Also probably because China is feeding Iran. And Iran is feeding Venezuela. China is a counterpower and the positive of chinese model is for some reason communists decided not to break family. Chinese are family oriented. But on the other hand chinese are the most superficial, materialistic people on earth. They´re god is money. They have no soul. Only mindless drones regurgitating chinese propaganda with predatory economical thinking. The success of China is engineered by western society. Uncontrolled theft of R&D. Don´t think China can create anything. Maybe develop technology until hitting a roadblock.

And now Xiping decided to standup to his masters. Maybe he was placed with his known traits for this to happen. Guess what? innocent people from western countries will be called upon to topple CCP. Just like what happened to Saddam and Gaddafi in recent times. Xiping is the next Gaddafi. But I don´t think they will destroy the country. Because their´s too much wealth in there. Weapons of mass destruction=Coronavirus. Probably just remove Xiping and place a puppet.
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Unfortunately, this Frankenstein Monster may be too powerful to stop! While I do not see the CCP being overthrown, I could envision Xiping being deposed by the half dozen or so men, directly behind him, in the power structure. At a certain point they may collectively decide that he has gone too far.
 
911 said:
That's the main reason we are headed to a cold war, the globalists LOVED China when it was a repressive communist country that destroyed its cultural heritage, blurred gender roles, had no technical innovation and culled its population by the tens of millions. Right now, they are a bit schizophrenic about China, while they LOVE the kind of unbridled technocracy China has, they are increasingly uneasy about its growing power, and about China reasserting its cultural roots and rebuilding its nation on a solid foundation. That part is definitely not what they wanted for China.
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How can you have a one world government without consolidating power? You can't.

Which is why the globalist-owned media claims China is a threat, while the globalist-owned corporations and governments continue business as usual with China.

Yes, China puts out nationalistic Chinese media; so did the Soviet Union. They even used very religious Russian historical or literary figures as part of their propaganda, like Saint Alexander Nevsky or Nikolai Gogol. The most famous Soviet director, Tarkovsky, placed religious themes throughout all of his work, not to mention Andrei Rublev, a three-hour movie on an icon paint and Saint.

Meanwhile Soviet authorities were brutally persecuting the Russian Church.
 
MovingForward2050 said:
Unfortunately, this Frankenstein Monster may be too powerful to stop! While I do not see the CCP being overthrown, I could envision Xiping being deposed by the half dozen or so men, directly behind him, in the power structure. At a certain point they may collectively decide that he has gone too far.
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Never going to happen. At this point Xi Jinping *is* China and the CCP, just like Putin is Russia

Everything else is just warmongering stoked by jarglassed think tank pundits and triggerhappy neocon policymakers

On a sidenote, with your own country in flames in might be best to focus on facing the traitors and enemies at home before you start looking at China

Troller said:
And now Xiping decided to standup to his masters. Maybe he was placed with his known traits for this to happen. Guess what? innocent people from western countries will be called upon to topple CCP. Just like what happened to Saddam and Gaddafi in recent times. Xiping is the next Gaddafi. But I don´t think they will destroy the country. Because their´s too much wealth in there. Weapons of mass destruction=Coronavirus. Probably just remove Xiping and place a puppet
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It's interesting to see how easily the right is instigated concerning China.

Alt right commentors and more traditionally right-wing conservatives are like 'our society has been polluted by the left, every state instution is infested by their long march through the institutions, all our freedoms are being eroded, end the foreign military escapades now, balkanisation of the US now, we need a complete and total reset' whenever domestic affairs are debated

All that goes out the window when either the CCP, China or Xi Jinping is mentioned. Then its suddenly 'we need to protect our Western values, the Chinese are threatening our way of life, beef up troop presence in the Pacific, etc etc.'
 
La Águila Negra said:
Never going to happen. At this point Xi Jinping *is* China and the CCP, just like Putin is Russia

Everything else is just warmongering stoked by jarglassed think tank pundits and triggerhappy neocon policymakers

On a sidenote, with your own country in flames in might be best to focus on facing the traitors and enemies at home before you start looking at China


It's interesting to see how easily the right is instigated concerning China.

Alt right commentors and more traditionally right-wing conservatives are like 'our society has been polluted by the left, every state instution is infested by their long march through the institutions, all our freedoms are being eroded, end the foreign military escapades now, balkanisation of the US now, we need a complete and total reset' whenever domestic affairs are debated

All that goes out the window when either the CCP, China or Xi Jinping is mentioned. Then its suddenly 'we need to protect our Western values, the Chinese are threatening our way of life, beef up troop presence in the Pacific, etc etc.'
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"Never going to happen. At this point Hitler *is* Germany and the Nazi party".

Nicholas, Louis XVI, etc.

History has disproven your claim numerous times.
 
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Troller said:
"Never going to happen. At this point Hitler *is* Germany and the Nazi party".

Nicholas, Louis XVI, etc.

History has disproven your claim numerous times.
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Weird analogy.

Hitler never faced internal popular resistance, not even during his last days holed up in a bunker in Berlin

There was one attempt on his life by a disgruntled former nobleman named Von Stauffenberg but aside from that the German people, the Wehrmacht and his trusted inner circle never left his side

His position was taken over by Donitz AFTER he had committed suicide by cyanide

As for your other examples, what do they have to do with Xi Jinping and the CCP?

Do you even do history bro?

The position of Xi Jinping in both the Party and Chinese society is unparalleled. He has chased out the Marxist New Left clique, and is in the final process of bulldozing the leftovers of the Jiang Zemin clique. The coronavirus outbreak has given him plenty of ammunition to replace lower and higher government officials with more trusted cadres (most notably the Hubei governer)

He has cemented himself as one of the most imported men in Chinese history. His ideology is now on the same level as Mao's or Deng XiaoPing's

50 percent of the Chinese people venerate the man. It's borderline unhealthy. The other 50 percent is more levelheaded and indifferent but quick to acknowledge his standings, achievements and patriotism.

The only people you'll meet that don't like him are Tier 1 city sluts with a degree from a US/UK/Aussie University and a mild form of the globohomo virus

I suggest you don't hold your breath waiting for Xi's, or the CCP's downfall just because you've been reading about the it in just about every magazin, blog, newspaper and TV show

It's not going to happen. It's propaganda.
 
Enigma said:
How can you have a one world government without consolidating power? You can't.

Which is why the globalist-owned media claims China is a threat, while the globalist-owned corporations and governments continue business as usual with China.

Yes, China puts out nationalistic Chinese media; so did the Soviet Union. They even used very religious Russian historical or literary figures as part of their propaganda, like Saint Alexander Nevsky or Nikolai Gogol. The most famous Soviet director, Tarkovsky, placed religious themes throughout all of his work, not to mention Andrei Rublev, a three-hour movie on an icon paint and Saint.

Meanwhile Soviet authorities were brutally persecuting the Russian Church.
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Lenin and Trotsky hated Russian and the Orthodox Church with a passion, they killed as many Christians as they could, killing roughly 150 times as many Christians as Hitler killed Jews.

Stalin fell back on nationalism lightly sprinkled with piety because Ivan and Sergei didn't want to be massacred on the frontlines for the glory of the Soviet Proliteriat, it's just lip service. If you went into a church in Soviet Russia and weren't an 80yo babushka, you were finished.

Tarkovsky was a Christian Russian dissident, he defected to Italy and was likely cancered by the KGB.
 
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