The new cold war with China

Troller

Woodpecker
Weird analogy.

Hitler never faced internal popular resistance, not even during his last days holed up in a bunker in Berlin

There was one attempt on his life by a disgruntled former nobleman named Von Stauffenberg but aside from that the German people, the Wehrmacht and his trusted inner circle never left his side

His position was taken over by Donitz AFTER he had committed suicide by cyanide

As for your other examples, what do they have to do with Xi Jinping and the CCP?

Do you even do history bro?

The position of Xi Jinping in both the Party and Chinese society is unparalleled. He has chased out the Marxist New Left clique, and is in the final process of bulldozing the leftovers of the Jiang Zemin clique. The coronavirus outbreak has given him plenty of ammunition to replace lower and higher government officials with more trusted cadres (most notably the Hubei governer)

He has cemented himself as one of the most imported men in Chinese history. His ideology is now on the same level as Mao's or Deng XiaoPing's

50 percent of the Chinese people venerate the man. It's borderline unhealthy. The other 50 percent is more levelheaded and indifferent but quick to acknowledge his standings, achievements and patriotism.

The only people you'll meet that don't like him are Tier 1 city sluts with a degree from a US/UK/Aussie University and a mild form of the globohomo virus

I suggest you don't hold your breath waiting for Xi's, or the CCP's downfall just because you've been reading about the it in just about every magazin, blog, newspaper and TV show

It's not going to happen. It's propaganda.
"Hitler never faced internal popular resistance, not even during his last days holed up in a bunker in Berlin"

"50 percent of the Chinese people venerate the man. It's borderline unhealthy."

My point was more unthinkable events can happen. Not so much comparing Hitler and Xiping. Even though there is similarities. Another one is Xiping using a rethoric saying west has shamed China. By selling opiods, etc. Which is a dangerous rethoric.

If I were to guess. The elite is playing iniminimanimo if it´s US or China getting nazi Germany treatment. But to be honest. Replicating west model will not be easy. Transferring US empire into China.

When elite decides a goal. Sometimes they don´t fully reach it. But the target has to pay a price. So If Xiping doesn´t want to be germanized he will have to pay a price. It might not even be directly China or Xiping paying it.

Beijing is China political center. China is divided by political, economical, etc. Can´t remember which cities now. Think Guangzhou is economical. Do you think the elite is happy? Being stuck at home during lockdown? They´re not.
 
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Enigma

Hummingbird
Gold Member
Lenin and Trotsky hated Russian and the Orthodox Church with a passion, they killed as many Christians as they could, killing roughly 150 times as many Christians as Hitler killed Jews.

Stalin fell back on nationalism lightly sprinkled with piety because Ivan and Sergei didn't want to be massacred on the frontlines for the glory of the Soviet Proliteriat, it's just lip service. If you went into a church in Soviet Russia and weren't an 80yo babushka, you were finished.

Tarkovsky was a Christian Russian dissident, he defected to Italy and was likely cancered by the KGB.
Tarkovsky filmed and released most of his films in the Soviet Union. The only two he released after his emigration are not nearly as popular.

Yes, Stalin fell back on nationalism with some religious elements, while still persecuting the church. That is exactly my point.

It’s the same thing we’re seeing in China.
 

La Águila Negra

Kingfisher
Hitler never faced internal popular resistance, not even during his last days holed up in a bunker in Berlin"

"50 percent of the Chinese people venerate the man. It's borderline unhealthy."
....

How does any of this prove your point, and disproves mine?

Or are you hinting at an armed foreign invasion and a lengthy two front war on Chinese territory?

LOL.


My point was more unthinkable events can happen. Not so much comparing Hitler and Xiping. Even though there is similarities. Another one is Xiping using a rethoric saying west has shamed China. By selling opiods, etc. Which is a dangerous rethoric.
90 percent of the warmongering comes from the West. 90 percent of wars too, bytheway. On International stage China ain't exactly a choir boy but it's peanuts compared to the sh*t that the US pulls off year in year out.

When elite decides a goal. Sometimes they don´t fully reach it. But the target has to pay a price. So If Xiping doesn´t want to be germanized he will have to pay a price.
Could you elaborate please? I think everybody knows that there will be a clash, be it hot or cold, between the US and China.

There is a new global contender yet the current status quo favors the old sole superpower. It has to be reset, be it at least partially

Beijing is China political center. China is divided by political, economical, etc. Can´t remenber which cities now. Think Guangzhou is economical. Do you think the elite is happy? Being stuck at home during lockdown? They´re not.
What elite are you pointing at?

'Our' elite can go wherever they want. They make the rules, they dont abide by them. An old friend of mine lives right next to Schiphol airport and during the lockdown he was surprised at the amount of air traffic. Checked out flight radar and these were all private planes from the weirdest destinations, many from Tel Aviv too he said

As for the lockdown in China, it has been lifted months ago. Aside from international traffic everything is back to normal over there.
 

Troller

Woodpecker

 
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Goni

Robin
Lenin and Trotsky hated Russian and the Orthodox Church with a passion, they killed as many Christians as they could, killing roughly 150 times as many Christians as Hitler killed Jews.

Stalin fell back on nationalism lightly sprinkled with piety because Ivan and Sergei didn't want to be massacred on the frontlines for the glory of the Soviet Proliteriat, it's just lip service. If you went into a church in Soviet Russia and weren't an 80yo babushka, you were finished.

Tarkovsky was a Christian Russian dissident, he defected to Italy and was likely cancered by the KGB.
While all that is true, especially with the 150 times more People being killed by Soviets that Hitler ever killed.

However to specify somethings, Hitler was not in a detailed matter involved in killing jews. As you are probably aware, most jews died of Typhus and lack of food in 1945.

On the other hand, besides Lenin and Trotsky, Stalin was also involved in mass killings probably more than them. Lets not forget Holdomor, evan though Jews stand behind that event also.

As for the Orthodox Church of Russia, many times it was also a tool of Romanovs and panslavism.

Tsarist Russia invented pan slavism and many non slavic people in Balkans, Europe and Caucasus were badly affected by that such as Albanians, Circissians, Chechens, Abkhazians , Vlachs, Germans etc.
 
Yes, China puts out nationalistic Chinese media; so did the Soviet Union. They even used very religious Russian historical or literary figures as part of their propaganda, like Saint Alexander Nevsky or Nikolai Gogol. The most famous Soviet director, Tarkovsky, placed religious themes throughout all of his work, not to mention Andrei Rublev, a three-hour movie on an icon paint and Saint.

Meanwhile Soviet authorities were brutally persecuting the Russian Church.
Tarkovsky had to go through hell to get those movies made and those shots put in the movies. The Soviets were somewhat lax with his religious imagery because he was seen around the world as one of the best if not the best living director and the Soviet authorities wanted to prove more than anything how the glorious USSR made the best art.

Being relentlessly dogged by the authorities finally led to Tarkovsky defecting to the West, which broke his heart because he loved and missed Russia.

He is as much a hero as Solzhenitsyn as far as I am concerned. He insisted on making his art about Christianity during a time when even the Church was terrified of the commissars.

EDIT: I see 911 beat me to it.
 
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Enigma

Hummingbird
Gold Member
Tarkovsky had to go through hell to get those movies made and those shots put in the movies. The Soviets were somewhat lax with his religious imagery because he was seen around the world as one of the best if not the best living director and the Soviet authorities wanted to prove more than anything how the glorious USSR made the best art.

Being relentlessly dogged by the authorities finally led to Tarkovsky defecting to the West, which broke his heart because he loved and missed Russia.

He is as much a hero as Solzhenitsyn as far as I am concerned. He insisted on making his art about Christianity during a time when even the Church was terrified of the commissars.

EDIT: I see 911 beat me to it.
Like 911, you are completely missing the point of my post, and your details aren’t even correct.

“Andrei Rublev”, Tarkovsky’s most religious film, was only the second one he released. He did have some acclaim from his first film and the movie was cut, but it was still released.

Does China not censor their media? Does China not persecute religion?

Yes, they do.

You also ignored my other examples, like the film “Alexander Nevsky” or the great honor given to the highly religious writer Gogol near the end of Stalin’s life. Are you aware that Nevsky is one of Russia’s most popular saints? Do you realize how important Orthodoxy, traditional culture, and conservative political values were to Gogol’s life and works?

How about “And Quiet Flows the Don”, which was released as both a massive book and 6.5 hour film between 1928 and 1958 and is focused entirely on the lives of Cossacks. Are you aware of how much the Cossacks are historically associated with both staunch defense of Orthodoxy and loyalty to the tsar, the Romanovs in particular? They’re also heavily tied to Ukrainian nationalism, a group that was being starved to death at the time.

And yet it was released under the Soviets, and it’s said that Stalin even personally defended the author from persecution.

These are just notable examples. The point is that nationalist, culturally traditional, and sometimes religious media were put out in large numbers in the Soviet Union, even though there was great censorship.

And we see the same thing in China. Highly controlled media that also portrays nationalist and traditional Chinese themes, as long as it doesn’t stray too far from the party line.

This is really just a basic fact.
 
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Enigma

Hummingbird
Gold Member
Here we have a detailed example, in a 1955 essay on censorship of Chekhov, of how Soviet censorship:

https://www.jstor.org/stable/4204659?seq=1 (free to read with a free account)

1. Continued to publish 19th century Russian writers, including those who used religious themes (like Chekhov), even at the very beginning of the USSR.

2. How censorship changed over time, altering and changing (or deleting) already published works as the party line and leadership shifted.

3. How censorship was applied inconsistently even within the same text.

4. How the Soviets in the Stalinist period censored both negative comments Chekhov made about pre-revolutionary Russian culture and positive comments he made about the West. They even cut out derogatory comments he made about non-Soviet Slavs.

This is all just within the first few pages.

Again, we’ve seen a similar story in the history of modern China, where at time s Chinese culture and religion is violently persecuted, at other times it is allowed — but always it is strictly controlled.

As I said, these are really just basic facts.
 
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john3D

Newbie
I can't really imagine how the USA can stand up to China at this point. What are we going to fight them with, black lives matter?

Maybe I'm wrong but the idea that all this stuff is happening yet we have simultaneously have a bunch of competent strong men and strong military still in this country just laying low for now just doesn't sit right with me.

What kind of idiot would fight to defend the USA at this point? It's a completely evil corrupted country that doesn't even enforce the rule of law on communist socialist uprisings.

What kind of man puts up with this kind of shit? Much less lays his life on the line to defend it.

At this point your effort would be better placed fighting your own communist home country than China honestly.

I'm surprised we haven't been outright invaded already. It wouldn't be necessary though assuming China doesn't do all the basic common sense stupid things that we do, all they have to do is just let us destroy ourselves.
 
Like 911, you are completely missing the point of my post, and your details aren’t even correct.

“Andrei Rublev”, Tarkovsky’s most religious film, was only the second one he released. He did have some acclaim from his first film and the movie was cut, but it was still released.

Does China not censor their media? Does China not persecute religion?

Yes, they do.

You also ignored my other examples...
I'm pretty familiar with Soviet cinema, and very familiar with Tarkovsky's works. Including having poured over his diary, all his major interviews, and the book he wrote.

Rublev was made coming off of not just the acclaim of his first official film, but also from his student film The Steamroller And The Violin.

All his films are deeply religious. For which he wrote, over and over in his diary, that the bureaucrats gave him hell about, and stalled, and so on. They also gave him hell about dream sequences, not portraying enough workers, etc.

But of course they used his works as best they could.

I don't care about your points about China, which is why I didn't address them at all.

On the issue of control and persecution over imagery and so on, yes, we are in agreement -- it is not applied consistently. I was not contending that in my post. Was all religious imagery/tone banned from Soviet works? No. I did not claim that either.

Are you contending that Tarkovsky did not have to struggle with the authorities to produce his work, of which a major point of contention was the religiosity? Because then YOUR details would be incorrect (unless you are also claiming that his diary was a work of fiction, or mistranslated into English).
 
One thing that many people in the west seem to miss is how fanatically Xi Jinping is following communist doctrine. He worships communism like a religion. For him communism is quasi-divine, and its philosophers quasi-messianic. Here he is two years ago worshipping Karl Marx:
maxresdefault.jpg

Xi Jinping's incompetence stems from his conviction that as long he follows communist philosophy, it will be good for China. He ignores all warnings about viruses, nuclear meltdowns, health hazards and natural disasters, and works only for advancing communist principles.

The Virus is just the beginning. There will be more bad stuff coming out of China.
 
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Enigma

Hummingbird
Gold Member
Are you contending that Tarkovsky did not have to struggle with the authorities to produce his work
My post: “He did have some acclaim from his first film and the movie was cut, but it was still released.”

You’re literally ignoring the point about China, in a thread about China, so that you can argue about something that I didn’t even say.

Everything in the Soviet Union went through the censors. Obviously. The Soviets brutally suppressed Christians. Obviously.

The other examples I gave were also censored and/or delayed, just as Tarkovsky’s works were. Everything was. Obviously.
 
My post: “He did have some acclaim from his first film and the movie was cut, but it was still released.”

You’re literally ignoring the point about China, in a thread about China, so that you can argue about something that I didn’t even say.

Everything in the Soviet Union went through the censors. Obviously. The Soviets brutally suppressed Christians. Obviously.

The other examples I gave were also censored and/or delayed, just as Tarkovsky’s works were. Everything was. Obviously.
We have no disagreement then.

I was just fleshing out details about Tarkovsky that the rest of the forum likely doesn't know.

And I hope (and I'm sure you would agree) that they look into and consume his works.
 

911

Peacock
Gold Member
They killed 900,000,000 Christians?
You're not going to get too far computing ratios based on the Holocaustianity stats provided by Wikipedia and Spielberg.

"Only" about 65,000,000 Christians were culled by the Cheka and NKVD tribal Bolshevik goons.
 

911

Peacock
Gold Member
I can't really imagine how the USA can stand up to China at this point. What are we going to fight them with, black lives matter?

Maybe I'm wrong but the idea that all this stuff is happening yet we have simultaneously have a bunch of competent strong men and strong military still in this country just laying low for now just doesn't sit right with me.

What kind of idiot would fight to defend the USA at this point? It's a completely evil corrupted country that doesn't even enforce the rule of law on communist socialist uprisings.

What kind of man puts up with this kind of shit? Much less lays his life on the line to defend it.

At this point your effort would be better placed fighting your own communist home country than China honestly.

I'm surprised we haven't been outright invaded already. It wouldn't be necessary though assuming China doesn't do all the basic common sense stupid things that we do, all they have to do is just let us destroy ourselves.
This is the basic template of the oligarchy which completely dominates the West today, everything you need to know about it in 8 minutes, courtesy of E. Michael Jones:


China is not with the program, neither is Putin's Russia.

That's the main reason for the budding cold war with China increasingly in the crosshairs.
 
This is a good thread about a topic we've not been giving much attention. I'll add another point - one factor adding to our (US/UK before clown world) victory over the USSR was our ability to innovate and compete in the tech marketplace. Think about the power the image of a man walking on the moon with an American flag had on so-called third world and the soft power benefit that won us (not to mention the tech developments the science and tech used to build the space program spawned). I am very worried about the clown world-led drag on innovation and progress particularly if professors and researchers in the US are afraid to speak their minds.
 
A lot of Zu, Yang, Zhang, Zhao, Li, etc. This is an Ivy League university. Why did Columbia allow so many Chinese to study at their university? That is sketchy.
Because they pay cash and at 2-3X the rate of resident students. Remember, student loans help only the banks; the university only gets the sticker price and whoever pays more (no matter if it's a bank, an chink or a Saudi prince) will be wooed for admission.
 
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