The new cold war with China

Today Jimmy Lai, the publisher of pro democracy paper The Apple Daily, was arrested in Hong Kong under the new security law while spoiled leftists in the US are fighting to destroy democracy and usher in some type of Clowntocracy. But those who are actually facing real life oppression in adult land in Hong Kong are risking literally everything to hold on to democracy.

I know the the RVF skews away from globalism but to me supporting democratic principles abroad in the face of real oppression (some of these guys were marching with signs asking Trump to liberate HK) is among the most honorable things we can try to do.
 

Elipe

Woodpecker
I know the the RVF skews away from globalism but to me supporting democratic principles abroad in the face of real oppression (some of these guys were marching with signs asking Trump to liberate HK) is among the most honorable things we can try to do.
Great, then you go and support democracy in those places. We'll be over here cleaning up our own backyards. But the days of getting other people to fight your bloody, stupid "wars for democracy" are now long over. No more spilling American blood on foreign soil.
 
This is a forum on the new cold war with China....and like the last cold war with Russia we'll be losing our freedoms if we lose the cold war. Like it or not the winners write the rules. I agree we have a lot of work to do in our own backyard. Prior to WW II we were in a similar position. But to think we can bury our heads in the sand forever is naive. If our nascent political movement doesn't stand for something we will lose - like we lost previously conservative institutions like academia, parts of business in part due to inactivity. The US is going to have a foreign policy and it is in part our choice whether we want to influence how it is wielded. I for one do not want Alexandria OC and Nancy Pelosi running it....

War is not the only way to support democracy -its continuation of politics by other means - so there are ways of strengthening our position without shedding blood. There is a difference between globalism that promotes values we here are opposed to and globalism that promotes values that strengthen our position.

Christianity was spread by Crusades, Jesuit missions and other means.
 

Dr Mantis Toboggan

Kingfisher
Gold Member
Great, then you go and support democracy in those places. We'll be over here cleaning up our own backyards. But the days of getting other people to fight your bloody, stupid "wars for democracy" are now long over. No more spilling American blood on foreign soil.
There's lots of middle ground between giving the CCP a free pass by ignoring the entire situation and sending in the Marines to kick them out of the city.

For all the talk of being a Christian forum, lots of guys on here seem to have a soft spot for a regime that is as actively anti-Christian as just about any in the world.
 

Leonard D Neubache

Owl
Gold Member
Today Jimmy Lai, the publisher of pro democracy paper The Apple Daily, was arrested in Hong Kong under the new security law while spoiled leftists in the US are fighting to destroy democracy and usher in some type of Clowntocracy. But those who are actually facing real life oppression in adult land in Hong Kong are risking literally everything to hold on to democracy.

I know the the RVF skews away from globalism but to me supporting democratic principles abroad in the face of real oppression (some of these guys were marching with signs asking Trump to liberate HK) is among the most honorable things we can try to do.
What's the problem?

The people of HK voted and put in politicians who are now creating legislation and voting on it.

That's democracy at work.

Why are you complaining about the outcome?

Are you willing to go into AIPAC and discuss foreign meddling with democracy?
 

Elipe

Woodpecker
There's lots of middle ground between giving the CCP a free pass by ignoring the entire situation and sending in the Marines to kick them out of the city.

For all the talk of being a Christian forum, lots of guys on here seem to have a soft spot for a regime that is as actively anti-Christian as just about any in the world.
Nobody here is stopping you or telling you to not do something to oppose China. In fact, many of us are refusing outright to do business with China, be it refusing to buy Made In China stuff or refusing to use TikTok and other Chinese-run systems like Reddit.

But we just think that America's foreign policy over the past half-century have clearly demonstrated that America is not fit for getting involved in foreign entanglements. Every time we do it, the noose draws tighter around our neck. We haven't won a single war since WW2. We've been fostering a lot of anti-American sentiments in parts of the world that hitherto had nothing to do with America. And in fact, recent events have brought to light that America is actually exporting a lot of pretty nasty, Satanic stuff. When America fights for democracy, what it is really fighting for is the freedom to murder your unborn babies, the freedom for men to have butt sex with other men, the freedom for corporations to come in and utterly screw up the local economy for the benefit of the global corporate conglomerate, the freedom to eat terrible slop and get morbidly obese, the freedom to masturbate to porn all day instead of dealing with real problems or coming together as community, the freedom to let Jews steal your land and dispossess your people (Pakistan), the freedom to rape and pillage as you please because America killed the local warlord keeping you at bay (Kony 2012), the freedom to have an Islamic dictatorship take over because America stupidly meddled in the political affairs of your nation (Iran and Iraq), the freedom to kill and maim white people in their own countries...

I mean, with a track record like that, it might actually be better for the spiritual health of the Hong Kong and Taiwan people if they first undergo Chinese occupation. Remember that it is the former Soviet countries that are now seeing a resurgence in Orthodox membership and resisting the poz. The hardships will toughen them up, and they'll build stronger cultures than if America came in and exported all the freedoms to be a total, isolated and atomized degenerate.
 

uncledick

Woodpecker
There's lots of middle ground between giving the CCP a free pass by ignoring the entire situation and sending in the Marines to kick them out of the city.

For all the talk of being a Christian forum, lots of guys on here seem to have a soft spot for a regime that is as actively anti-Christian as just about any in the world.
Are they any worse then the anti-christian powers, laws and elites in the west though? Looking around my country (Canada) christianity has been dead a long time.. and to practice it in a traditional bible based sense is to open oneself to hate laws/speech, amongst a variety of other social shaming and isolation procedures the elites can inflict. Sure Trudeau et al. aren't busing fundamentalist christians to camps in canada yet, but all the levers are in place for it to happen someday.

Our western governments are a soft form of the current CCP, the difference is the morality policies of the CCP ironically instills some traditional values that are against LGBT, radical feminism and other such devancies.

In essence, the CCP wants to eradicate religion or make it so it can only be practiced in the shadows and nooks of China, sorta like early christianity in the roman empire, where as in the western globohomo world, they want to radically change it so we bow down to the altar of trannie jesus. Whats worse really?
 
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Foolsgo1d

Peacock
Today Jimmy Lai, the publisher of pro democracy paper The Apple Daily, was arrested in Hong Kong under the new security law while spoiled leftists in the US are fighting to destroy democracy and usher in some type of Clowntocracy. But those who are actually facing real life oppression in adult land in Hong Kong are risking literally everything to hold on to democracy.

I know the the RVF skews away from globalism but to me supporting democratic principles abroad in the face of real oppression (some of these guys were marching with signs asking Trump to liberate HK) is among the most honorable things we can try to do.
Anyone who thought China would allow HK to be anything but under their thumb needs to get a reality check. Its right on their doorstep and China has broadcasted their intentions for years with their attitude in the South China Sea, Africa and elsewhere.

My only gripe is they haven't told the financial institutions to get out otherwise they will be sanctioned but they wont because HSBC falling over like a fat cat banker would probably cause major problems in the US and they dont want that right now. The money printers control the policies.
 

It_is_my_time

Hummingbird
What's the problem?

The people of HK voted and put in politicians who are now creating legislation and voting on it.

That's democracy at work.

Why are you complaining about the outcome?

Are you willing to go into AIPAC and discuss foreign meddling with democracy?
Not to mention, thanks to democracy the USA will be a 3rd world country in 10 to 15 years, and looking at Chicago last night, probably sooner.

Why would I want to spread this inferior form of government to other countries? It has destroyed the once great USA. The founding fathers of the USA hated democracy, so I see no historical or present time reason for supporting it much less trying to force it on others.

I don't care about China one way or another right now. I am more worried about the USA and the fact this country is collapsing at an alarming rate and no one in DC gives a damn and more likely almost everyone in DC is being paid under the table to make it happen.
 
Here are other things I found out concerning the South China Sea issue:

1. There are six claimants to parts of the South China Sea, including the Philippines and Taiwan, and they are against each other. Even Taiwan rejects Philippine claims, and both are allies of the U.S. This is probably the main reason why the U.S. has not been interfering.

2. China started incursions in the region when it fought against another claimant, Vietnam, in 1988. After it won, China started entering the Kalayaan Island group, and the U.S. did not act as well. By 2005, the other claimants had started building installations in the area.

3. The U.S. had for decades been attempting to to surround both China and Russia with dozens of military bases and installations following a "grand chessboard" strategy, culminating in Obama's attempt to pivot to Asia and wrest control of the region from China. The U.S. failed and can now do little, specially when the claimants have effectively taken control of the seas, including two international trade routes which they feared the U.S. would attempt to choke given conflict.

4. Filipinos are pro-U.S. and critical of China, but for some reason can't remember that they've been screwed many times over by the U.S., starting with onerous trade deals in return for independence, then support for the Marcos dictatorship, and after that inability to help the Philippines concerning China because the defense treaty between the U.S. and its ally covers only land territories and support is pre-conditioned by approval from the U.S. Congress.

5. China, as part of BRICS (with Brazil, Russia, India, and South Africa) and with forty emerging markets (including the Philippines and the other claimants of parts of the South China Sea: Malaysia, Brunei, Taiwan, Vietnam, and the Philippines), have been increasing in economic strength across around two decades, to the point that some predict they will dominate not just Asia but the global economy, and might even switch to a basket of currencies rather than rely on the U.S. dollar.

It is based on these and other points that some believe that the U.S., in order to get back control of the global economy, may eventually attack China:

If China did not act so autistic, on a diplomatic level, the Philippines would be eating out of their hands right now. But instead, they regularly bully Filipino fishermen with their blue water Coast Guard and aquatic militia forces. These repeated acts of hostility, along with a "Devil's deal" loan offer that the Filipino senate smartly rejected, have driven Filipinos back into the arms of America. And so now Subic Bay will be rebuilt... Half of it will be a port for commerce, and the other half an American naval base, where we will actually have ship-building facilities, to teach the Filipinos how to build their own small but effective navy. Way to go, China!

The Philippines won their territorial claims against China, in a world court. But China simply said that they don't recognize the legal decision, and will do whatever they please. Might makes right!

"The U.S. failed and can now do little, specially when the claimants have effectively taken control of the seas, including two international trade routes which they feared the U.S. would attempt to choke given conflict."

The U.S. did not stop China from building those artificial islands, but to have done so, would have risked war. But those relatively small islands are very vulnerable to attack, and would quickly lose their capacity as air fields and resupply harbors, after a bombardment by allied forces. The U.S. can actually do a great deal, having the most experienced and generally advanced navy in the world. We routinely fly over or sail near the no fly zones of the artificial islands, with China gritting their teeth in anger.

China does have more ships now in there navy, but they lack blue water experience and are still behind technologically. But a lot could change over the next ten to thirty years. China is currently on the biggest shipbuilding spree the world has ever seen. Especially considering the powerful and very advanced American submarine force, if we want to choke those key Chinese trade routes, we will choke them.

A major goal of BRICS is to get the world away from the dominance of the American dollar. In time they may get their wish.
 
Today Jimmy Lai, the publisher of pro democracy paper The Apple Daily, was arrested in Hong Kong under the new security law while spoiled leftists in the US are fighting to destroy democracy and usher in some type of Clowntocracy. But those who are actually facing real life oppression in adult land in Hong Kong are risking literally everything to hold on to democracy.

I know the the RVF skews away from globalism but to me supporting democratic principles abroad in the face of real oppression (some of these guys were marching with signs asking Trump to liberate HK) is among the most honorable things we can try to do.
Amen! I completely agree! What is going on in Hong Kong is horrible... And the CCP is an evil and godless regime that threatens America and the world.
 

La Águila Negra

Kingfisher

China is continuing its crackdown on the LGTBblabla agenda (not the community!)

The small GayPride that has existed in its first tier cities since 2009 has been cancelled.

Popular gay bars in Shanghai have closed doors (some say due to Covid19, others say because they were told to)

Literature promoting the LGBT lifestyle has been forbidden
 
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Easy_C

Crow
There's lots of middle ground between giving the CCP a free pass by ignoring the entire situation and sending in the Marines to kick them out of the city.

For all the talk of being a Christian forum, lots of guys on here seem to have a soft spot for a regime that is as actively anti-Christian as just about any in the world.
I’ve noticed that and it’s bizarre. They seem to think that because the US elites are bad then anyone against them must be good.

I guarantee the Chinese regime will do a lot worse to Christians than fining you for attend church or even turning a blind eye to arson
 

Dr Mantis Toboggan

Kingfisher
Gold Member
I’ve noticed that and it’s bizarre. They seem to think that because the US elites are bad then anyone against them must be good.

I guarantee the Chinese regime will do a lot worse to Christians than fining you for attend church or even turning a blind eye to arson
I don't think the CCP is even "against" the western elites, they have a common enemy (us).
 

It_is_my_time

Hummingbird
I’ve noticed that and it’s bizarre. They seem to think that because the US elites are bad then anyone against them must be good.

I guarantee the Chinese regime will do a lot worse to Christians than fining you for attend church or even turning a blind eye to arson
Things are not even kicking up here in the west yet. The bad days for Christians have not even started and what our elites will do, and their ancestors did in the past to Christians, is far far far worse than the Chinese will do or have historically done.

I don't want the CCP ruling over the west at all. I don't welcome them. But I sure as hell don't want to interfere with their life in their country when our country is crashing and burning and Christians are being persecuted and one safe neighborhoods are being turned into war zones as the poverty and violence spreads.
 

Dr Mantis Toboggan

Kingfisher
Gold Member
Things are not even kicking up here in the west yet. The bad days for Christians have not even started and what our elites will do, and their ancestors did in the past to Christians, is far far far worse than the Chinese will do or have historically done.

I don't want the CCP ruling over the west at all. I don't welcome them. But I sure as hell don't want to interfere with their life in their country when our country is crashing and burning and Christians are being persecuted and one safe neighborhoods are being turned into war zones as the poverty and violence spreads.
Chinese Christians are forced to register with the government and attend state-approved churches which unsurprisingly prioritize the teachings of Mao and Xi over those of Christ. Underground churches exist, and those caught attending them are subject to imprisonment, torture, and even organ harvesting while still conscious. Most of what the western elites would like to do to Christians who refuse to bend the knee, the Chinese government is already doing to its own Christians (who number between 50-100m).

Now unfortunately, there's little we can do about that right now. I certainly am not advocating invading China. But there is nothing wrong with using the economic and diplomatic leverage we do have to protect the religious and political rights of people in Hong Kong as much as we can.
 

It_is_my_time

Hummingbird
Chinese Christians are forced to register with the government and attend state-approved churches which unsurprisingly prioritize the teachings of Mao and Xi over those of Christ. Underground churches exist, and those caught attending them are subject to imprisonment, torture, and even organ harvesting while still conscious. Most of what the western elites would like to do to Christians who refuse to bend the knee, the Chinese government is already doing to its own Christians (who number between 50-100m).

Now unfortunately, there's little we can do about that right now. I certainly am not advocating invading China. But there is nothing wrong with using the economic and diplomatic leverage we do have to protect the religious and political rights of people in Hong Kong as much as we can.
Yea, the CCP isn't kind to Christians at all, I know that well, I have friends from China.

That pales in comparison to what the Bolsheviks did to the Christians, in fact to say it "pales" is down right a disrespectful understatement. They were targeted for genocide in the most violent and degrading means possible. And where did the children of those Bolsheviks end up?


Of course there is little we can do about how the CCP treats its citizens. We have failed leadership from both parties in DC to the point that the USA is quickly turning into a 3rd world shithole with wide spread crime, disease, violence and death. I don't care about China or the CCP, I care about having children in the USA and passing a country on to them that isn't a complete shithole.
 
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