The NoPorn / NoFap Thread - For Those Who're Serious

No-Designation Man

Kingfisher
Other Christian
Personally I think that these kinds of measures will always prove ineffective if the mindset is not correct.

You can set up all kinds of filters, and means to try to stop yourself from looking at pornography, but you will fail unless you can alter the mindset that makes you want to do it in the first place.

Let's say you are addicted to crack. Having filters on your internet or otherwise trying to impose limitations on your pornography, is like having a safe with a load of crack in it, that you can put in a box with a padlock inside a safe with a combination, but as long as you want to smoke crack, you know the combo, you have the key to the padlock, you can get to it if you want it. You will inevitably fail if you do not conquer the mindset that makes you want to smoke crack.

You can have 15 different steps to take to get to your crack, but it is all for nought if you do not conquer your desire for crack. Otherwise you'll just bypass however many steps you put in your way, and you'll get to your crack supply.

It is imperative that you realise that you are a hopeless addict, that the drug does nothing, absolutely nothing whatsoever for you, and that your life will be better without being enslaved to it. Otherwise you'll just be trying to trick yourself by putting your beloved crack in a safe that you know the combo to, inside a box that you have the key to. It's just not going to do anything if you still want your crack.
Agree with everything said here.^
Making things 'more difficult' doesn't address what is causing one to gravitate towards the problem.

The above being said, there's nothing wrong with taking steps to assist yourself along the way. For example: Do you have pornographic images saved to your computer? - Delete all of them. 'Subscribed' to a place you shouldn't be? - Unsubscribe. 'Bookmarks' to questionable material? - Clear them all out. Have hardware-media in your home (Videhos. Playsoy magazine, etc)? - Gather them all up and DISPOSE of them. Not 'Re-sell'; LAND-FILL/DESTROY. (Compare Acts 19:19)

And, for families, always have the computer of the home in the common area where everyone can see it - do this regardless if anyone has had problems or not. (Also, no personal devices with Internet capabilities for any minor children - I'm sure this appears debatable/extreme, I know, but that is how I would run my household).
 

canuckj

Woodpecker
Other Christian
Has anyone else noticed that when you feel close to God but mess up with certain sins such as discussed in the forum that you then feel far from God and it takes a long time to regain that closeness? I think our sin separates us from God or that we feel too dirty/hypocritical to go to him. At times (pre-COVID) I would even deliberately skip church the next day if I had viewed offensive images the day before. Although I hope we all conquer this sin it is good to know others have suffered from the same temptations and can overcome.
 

Lawrence87

Kingfisher
Orthodox
Has anyone else noticed that when you feel close to God but mess up with certain sins such as discussed in the forum that you then feel far from God and it takes a long time to regain that closeness? I think our sin separates us from God or that we feel too dirty/hypocritical to go to him. At times (pre-COVID) I would even deliberately skip church the next day if I had viewed offensive images the day before. Although I hope we all conquer this sin it is good to know others have suffered from the same temptations and can overcome.
I understand the feeling. Like we have let ourselves and our Creator down not only by the fact that we have sinned, but also by the repetition of the sin. We feel like we have cut ourselves off from Him.

The important thing is that we are repentant and that we struggle. When we ask for God's mercy and we are sincere He runs to greet us like the father of the Prodigal. As Saint Paisios said to someone who was feeling similar to how you describe "so you think your sin is greater than God's mercy?" In a sense this feeling that we have surely alienated ourselves from God is a perverse kind of pride. Like we are uniquely so sinful that we have cut ourselves off from God's love and mercy.

The only worry is that we become unrepentant and cease to struggle. God knows our weaknesses. He sees our struggles. He certainly knows that men struggle with sexual lust.

Do not allow the devil to trick you into thinking the appropriate response to these sins is to stop going to church! Going to church is precisely the appropriate response to sinning!

I think it is common to feel bad about this particular sin, but that is further temptation from the devil. He starts by tricking you into thinking it's no big deal, then afterwards he tricks you into thinking you've alienated yourself from God and His mercy. We all fall into all kinds of sin every day. The getting back up is the important part. Don't lose heart!
 

canuckj

Woodpecker
Other Christian
I understand the feeling. Like we have let ourselves and our Creator down not only by the fact that we have sinned, but also by the repetition of the sin. We feel like we have cut ourselves off from Him.

The important thing is that we are repentant and that we struggle. When we ask for God's mercy and we are sincere He runs to greet us like the father of the Prodigal. As Saint Paisios said to someone who was feeling similar to how you describe "so you think your sin is greater than God's mercy?" In a sense this feeling that we have surely alienated ourselves from God is a perverse kind of pride. Like we are uniquely so sinful that we have cut ourselves off from God's love and mercy.

The only worry is that we become unrepentant and cease to struggle. God knows our weaknesses. He sees our struggles. He certainly knows that men struggle with sexual lust.

Do not allow the devil to trick you into thinking the appropriate response to these sins is to stop going to church! Going to church is precisely the appropriate response to sinning!

I think it is common to feel bad about this particular sin, but that is further temptation from the devil. He starts by tricking you into thinking it's no big deal, then afterwards he tricks you into thinking you've alienated yourself from God and His mercy. We all fall into all kinds of sin every day. The getting back up is the important part. Don't lose heart!
Thank you Lawrence. There is a lot to digest there but it is pure wisdom. I think what gets me the most is that for most sin we choose to do it. Some sin like anger comes out without much conscious thought but other sin we need to turn on the computer, go to a website, etc. I think the longer we abstain from this type of sin the more disgusted we also are with it if we slip up.
 

Lawrence87

Kingfisher
Orthodox
Thank you Lawrence. There is a lot to digest there but it is pure wisdom. I think what gets me the most is that for most sin we choose to do it. Some sin like anger comes out without much conscious thought but other sin we need to turn on the computer, go to a website, etc. I think the longer we abstain from this type of sin the more disgusted we also are with it if we slip up.
There is a lot of disgust and shame involved with this particular sin. I'm not sure why particularly. But I often reflect that it is not related to the fact it is a sin because I do not feel it in regards to any other sin. I can get angry at someone and not feel ashamed about it, but it is no less a sin than masturbation.

I think the shame is some kind of temptation. That is not to say we ought not care about abstaining from this sin, but it seems to me like the disgust factor is more like another line of attack from Satan rather than any genuine response to the sin itself because we can do countless other kinds of sin without feeling like that. So in some regards we need to be careful not to let this shame make us ignore our other sins.

When I confess and I have to speak about this particular sin, it feels like it's the most important thing on the list, but then I tell the priest I insulted someone, got angry with people, etc without any shame and not nearly the same level of remorse about it. So I think its important to be even handed about it and not be beguiled into thinking this temptation to be excessively shameful means this sin outweighs all the others that we commit.

That is not to say we shouldn't try to stop, but we should try to avoid feeling like touching our weiner was the worst thing in the universe but feeling absolutely nothing when we say that we were unloving to our neighbour.

I hope that makes sense
 

nagareboshi

Kingfisher
Orthodox
I think the shame is some kind of temptation. That is not to say we ought not care about abstaining from this sin, but it seems to me like the disgust factor is more like another line of attack from Satan rather than any genuine response to the sin itself because we can do countless other kinds of sin without feeling like that. So in some regards we need to be careful not to let this shame make us ignore our other sins.

I don't necessarily know about this. It seems to me the ancient penitential rules are much stricter when it comes to the penances for this sin compared to gossip, insulting, disputes, etc. I've only read St. John the Faster's canons and penitential of Theodore, so I'm willing to be corrected on this.

Link: http://holytrinitymission.org/books/english/canons_fathers_rudder.htm#_Toc78634065
 

Lawrence87

Kingfisher
Orthodox
I don't necessarily know about this. It seems to me the ancient penitential rules are much stricter when it comes to the penances for this sin compared to gossip, insulting, disputes, etc. I've only read St. John the Faster's canons and penitential of Theodore, so I'm willing to be corrected on this.

Link: http://holytrinitymission.org/books/english/canons_fathers_rudder.htm#_Toc78634065

I don't know about the penitential side of things.

However it doesn't feel like the shame and disgust associated with masturbation is a wholesome thing. In other words I think it is a further attack of the devil rather than something good. This is exemplified by the fact that the disgust makes us not want to have anything to do with anything holy, even in the case of the poster I was quoting making us not wish to go to church. It can make us want to put off confession and so forth. It seems clear to me that this state is not a good one to fall into.
 

Alpha Hunter Zero

Pelican
Other Christian
I can not get over lust. Read all thread and still have to sometime no retain. Trigger is female dressed not well. I can no stop! I pray too for Jesus to give power stop but it not happen yet.
Are you sure that's the only trigger? Because each year more and more women are pushing boundaries for acceptable dressing standards. What defines not well dressed for you?
 

Cynllo

Woodpecker
Other Christian
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Jive Turkey

Woodpecker
Orthodox Catechumen
Very powerful Orthodox Wisdom in this video

1. We can't do this alone. We need guidance from a priest or spiritual father
2. We need the help of God, who wants us to be healed of this more than anyone else
3. Willpower is required, but willpower alone will not defeat this
4. We must break through the shame that is constraining us
5. We must grow in the areas we are insufficient in as men where pornography has repressed our development
6. Pornography is a form of self-abuse. We must understand this and cease the abuse

 

LSD

Pigeon
Protestant
For me personally I think jumping straight to No Fap after watching porn is too unrealistic.
I have different ``tiers'' I aim for.
1) no porn, no fap
2) fap but only to imagination (eyes closed etc)
3) fap but only to static images of clothed women
4) fap but only to static images of naked women

Secular view: I do not think fapping is the problem but rather watching porn is.
Obviously do not fap at all if you are faithmaxing.
But No Fap to me seems like a a difficult, binary goal. If I really need to fap, I will not just ``give up'' and go watch hardcore porn, but instead fap with my imagination or a static image.
 

Prores

Sparrow
Orthodox
As someone 8 years free of pornography ( Glory to God ) I can tell you that prayer is absolutely essential. Prayer can drive away lustful thoughts, the Jesus prayer in particular. If you want to have a fantasy, imagine the destruction wrought on the lives of these women, who are image bearers of God. Imagine how they would be free if only there was no demand for this kind of depravity.

Intoxicants that stimulate your imagination will weaken your resolve, I don’t believe you can smoke pot and win this fight.

You must also stay active, and do creative things. @Jive Turkey mentioned Fr Hans in a post above, he was my priest for a good while and he said something akin to the following:

Your God-given creative energies are dissipated ( your actually God-given ability to facilitate the create life with your seed ) when you masturbate and you simply cannot do anything to your fullest potential. There is an analog between that creative energy your flushing down the toilet and your ability to bring forth fruitful deeds into the world.

I’m paraphrasing but that is the general gist of it and it’s very profound if you’ve not looked at it from that angle.

My two cents.
 

Batman_

Kingfisher
Personally I think that these kinds of measures will always prove ineffective if the mindset is not correct.

You can set up all kinds of filters, and means to try to stop yourself from looking at pornography, but you will fail unless you can alter the mindset that makes you want to do it in the first place.

Let's say you are addicted to crack. Having filters on your internet or otherwise trying to impose limitations on your pornography, is like having a safe with a load of crack in it, that you can put in a box with a padlock inside a safe with a combination, but as long as you want to smoke crack, you know the combo, you have the key to the padlock, you can get to it if you want it. You will inevitably fail if you do not conquer the mindset that makes you want to smoke crack.

You can have 15 different steps to take to get to your crack, but it is all for nought if you do not conquer your desire for crack. Otherwise you'll just bypass however many steps you put in your way, and you'll get to your crack supply.

It is imperative that you realise that you are a hopeless addict, that the drug does nothing, absolutely nothing whatsoever for you, and that your life will be better without being enslaved to it. Otherwise you'll just be trying to trick yourself by putting your beloved crack in a safe that you know the combo to, inside a box that you have the key to. It's just not going to do anything if you still want your crack.

You are entitled to your opinion, but I believe you are wrong in your first analysis.

Barriers between an action and a reward (ie anything that creates friction) makes the action less likely to be pursued, this is a well known psychological phenomenon. You cannot rely on willpower alone to do anything in life, because it is a finite resource. Good and bad decisions are a result of discipline, which is established through daily systems you establish that make it so you don't even need to make a decision.





Putting crack in a safe is not the same thing in this analogy. The equivalent would disassociating yourself with everyone who is involved in your addiction (ie all your crack smoking friends, toxic people, etc), and or even going so far as burning bridges with your respect to your reputation to the point where it's impossible to even acquire it from dealers.

All that said, I do agree that people need to change their mindset, ultimately. Too many people refer to porn as a "habit" when it is in fact an addiction. People think it "fills the void", nope, the porn actually creates the void. You must do whatever it takes. Real dedication is not simply asserting you will avoid it, but avoiding it and ensuring the chances you will relapse are less likely or flat out impossible. For instance, ditching your smartphone may be a necessary step for some people.
 
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