Church The Orthodox Church

lskdfjldsf

Pelican
Orthodox Catechumen
Gold Member
`We need a state religion that is compatible with elite fertility, or else whites will disappear and the remnants will be wiggers.
Orthodoxy has the great advantage of being a coalition of national faiths.`

Orthodox fertility rates are below Catholics, Protestants, and those that identify as having "no religion", even excluding population growth among non-Orthodox in the third world. They are the least likely group to have more than two children: https://www.demogr.mpg.de/papers/working/wp-2006-013.pdf

Boosting the White population seems like a horrible reason to join the Orthodox church (or any church, for that matter) -- if fertility is a primary factor, it would actually do more harm than good. Jim's take is typical of many on the right who care very little about theology but just want an organization that overlaps with political beliefs. "Red pill" first, theology second.
 

DanielH

Ostrich
Orthodox
Orthodox fertility rates are below Catholics, Protestants, and those that identify as having "no religion", even excluding population growth among non-Orthodox in the third world. They are the least likely group to have more than two children: https://www.demogr.mpg.de/papers/working/wp-2006-013.pdf

Boosting the White population seems like a horrible reason to join the Orthodox church (or any church, for that matter) -- if fertility is a primary factor, it would actually do more harm than good. Jim's take is typical of many on the right who care very little about theology but just want an organization that overlaps with political beliefs. "Red pill" first, theology second.
Just really disingenuous to cite a 2006 study using 2002 and 2004 data, just over a decade after the collapse of the Soviet Union, and implying this is current information and that we should draw religious conclusions from it. For example, this study you cited quotes Russian fertility at 1.3 children per woman, which is understandable after a civilizational collapse, when now it is over 1.8 per woman and rising, higher than white Americans at just 1.64 women per child.
 

lskdfjldsf

Pelican
Orthodox Catechumen
Gold Member
Nominal affiliation vs regular attendance vs no religion among both White Americans and Russians? Are ethnic minorities (a huge share of the population in Russia these days) filtered out from Russian fertility rates the same way they are for White Americans?

Just playing devil's advocate (as you guys do in Catholic discussions). Boosting population and preventing "wiggers", as Jim put it, seems like a bad reason to join any church.
 

Eusebius Erasmus

Pelican
Orthodox
Orthodox fertility rates are below Catholics, Protestants, and those that identify as having "no religion", even excluding population growth among non-Orthodox in the third world. They are the least likely group to have more than two children: https://www.demogr.mpg.de/papers/working/wp-2006-013.pdf

Boosting the White population seems like a horrible reason to join the Orthodox church (or any church, for that matter) -- if fertility is a primary factor, it would actually do more harm than good. Jim's take is typical of many on the right who care very little about theology but just want an organization that overlaps with political beliefs. "Red pill" first, theology second.

I agree with your overall point: Orthodoxy isn't just "Red Pill," nor will it save 'Western civilization.'

Orthodoxy is the truth that Jesus Christ gave us. That is a good enough reason to join the Orthodox Church.
 

DanielH

Ostrich
Orthodox
Nominal affiliation vs regular attendance vs no religion among both White Americans and Russians? Are ethnic minorities (a huge share of the population in Russia these days) filtered out from Russian fertility rates the same way they are for White Americans?

Just playing devil's advocate (as you guys do in Catholic discussions). Boosting population and preventing "wiggers", as Jim put it, seems like a bad reason to join any church.
A reasonable reply would be "Oh sorry, I didn't realize that information was from almost a generation ago and that Russian fertility has gone up 40% while American fertility* has gone down since then. I still believe there is a disparity outside of socioeconomic reasons, here's why:"

*White fertility in America was around 1.9 at the time of your study, now just over 1.6.

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I agree with you that fertility rates are a weird wignatish reason to pick a church, but your entire post was based on very old data. I'm not going to zoom into subgroups when there have been such massive shifts among the nationalities/races as a whole since then. That hyperfocus doesn't interest me and seems worldly to me.

I'm Orthodox because it is true and I don't care for over-intellectual wignats trying to game out the best way to boost white populations.
 

lskdfjldsf

Pelican
Orthodox Catechumen
Gold Member
I agree with your overall point: Orthodoxy isn't just "Red Pill," nor will it save 'Western civilization.'

Orthodoxy is the truth that Jesus Christ gave us. That is a good enough reason to join the Orthodox Church.

Parable of the sower. We should rejoice for every person that finds God, politics are just very rocky soil.
 

Caramasão

Sparrow
Orthodox Inquirer
Speaking of birth rate in Orthodox countries, it would be interesting to find out the birth rate of Old Believers / Old Ritualists.

They are the "Orthodox Amish" in a sense.
 

Sol Invictus

Sparrow
Orthodox Catechumen
Speaking of birth rate in Orthodox countries, it would be interesting to find out the birth rate of Old Believers / Old Ritualists.

They are the "Orthodox Amish" in a sense.
I just so happened to watch a few documentaries about them this last week. Although I doubt we'll ever have hard numbers from them for a variety of reasons, they all tend to have very large families, so I'm sure their fertility rates are probably similar to that of the Amish and Mennonites.
 

Bird

Pelican

West seeks to destroy Serbian Orthodox Church just as Russian Church - Serbian president


BELGRADE, September 5. /TASS/. Western forces are trying to destroy the Serbian Orthodox Church in the former Yugoslavia as well as the Russian Orthodox Church in Ukraine and some other countries, Serbian President Aleksandar Vucic told the Prva TV on Sunday.

"Some Western forces in the region view the Serbian Orthodox Church as the Russian Orthodox Church in the former USSR. Just like it is necessary to destroy the Russian Orthodox Church in Ukraine, some Central Asian countries, although they have failed to do so, the Serbian Orthodox Church should be destroyed as well," he said commenting on the developments in Montenegro.

The situation in Montenegro has worsened dramatically due to the enthronement of Metropolitan Joanikije of Montenegro and the Littoral, which took place at the Cetinje monastery on Sunday. On Friday, members of the nationalist and pro-Nazi Montenegrin groups and supporters of the canonically unrecognized "Montenegrin Church" began arriving in the city of Cetinje. The protesters blocked the entrance to the city with car tires. That process was coordinated by the country’s former ruling party, the Democratic Party of Socialists, led by Milo Djukanovic who lost control of the government amid mass protests by believers against infringing upon the rights of the Serbian Orthodox Church.

On Sunday morning, nationalists attacked the police with stones, firecrackers and bottles. Law enforcers responded by using tear gas. Four people were slightly injured. Later on, the instigators of the riots, including Djukanovic's adviser Veselin Veljovic, were arrested.



 

nathaniel8

Chicken
Orthodox Inquirer
Hi - ive just joined and didnt know the best place to ask this question. im an orthodox inquirer i intend to be baptised into the church at some point but at the moment i am far away from a church with regular services but i will figure it out, I love Orthodoxy or what little i know at least. i wanted to ask a question here and maybe see if a thread could be started about Which laws Orthodox keep and do not keep anymore (from the OT) and why - because im running into heretics who want to keep old testament laws like the Sabbath etc. and im looking for more info on refuting them. What principles are in play in determining which laws are fulfilled in Christ (for example sacrificing animals is an obvious one) and thanks for any help and God Bless.
 

tractor

Woodpecker
Orthodox
Which laws Orthodox keep and do not keep anymore (from the OT) and why - because im running into heretics who want to keep old testament laws like the Sabbath etc. and im looking for more info on refuting them. What principles are in play in determining which laws are fulfilled in Christ (for example sacrificing animals is an obvious one) and thanks for any help and God Bless.

Hey nathaniel8, thanks for joining the RVF.

The most simple answer to your question (and to heretics) is that you do what the Church tells you to do. Because the Orthodox reject the falsehood of Sola Scripture and the idea of being one's own Pope. The Church was founded by Jesus Himself long before any text of the NT was written down.

I hope other forumites can provide more thorough answers to your specific questions on Sabbath and sacrifices.

Nonetheless, I don't recommend to engage in disputes with heretics.
 

nathaniel8

Chicken
Orthodox Inquirer
Hey nathaniel8, thanks for joining the RVF.

The most simple answer to your question (and to heretics) is that you do what the Church tells you to do. Because the Orthodox reject the falsehood of Sola Scripture and the idea of being one's own Pope. The Church was founded by Jesus Himself long before any text of the NT was written down.

I hope other forumites can provide more thorough answers to your specific questions on Sabbath and sacrifices.

Nonetheless, I don't recommend to engage in disputes with heretics.
Yeh good idea in general and i have said something very similar to that - thanks though its good to hear it again. The full situation is that there is another potential Orthodox Christian being confused by a heretic and its her im concerned about.
 

tractor

Woodpecker
Orthodox
Yeh good idea in general and i have said something very similar to that - thanks though its good to hear it again. The full situation is that there is another potential Orthodox Christian being confused by a heretic and its her im concerned about.

I understand the situation and I'd love to provide you with a clear cut answer but I'm not sure if I care much :squintlol:

If some people who are non-Jews insist on keeping the Sabbath, there's hardly something you can do about it. They read the Bible and see that in the OT, God clearly said you should rest on the seventh day. Jesus, to my knowledge, didn't say "forget Saturday" and Sunday became an official public holiday only under the Emperor Constantin in the 4th century. So, from the Sola Scriptura point of view, you definitely can find "proof" for keeping the Sabbath.

On the other hand, it's within our free will to decide which day is the seventh. And is the resurrection of Christ on Sunday not a direct revelation from His Father that we should honor this day more than others?
 

Serge Korol

Pigeon
Orthodox
You realize that most Orthodox do attend a Saturday worship, either Vespers or Vigil. Vespers on Saturday is actually a celebration of God in the evening, whereas Matins is a celebration of God in the morning.The traditional day starting at sundown. A Vigil is a celebration of the two combined. I would certainly call the All-night Vigil the more traditional of the two. An excellent explanation of these services are found here. http://holytrinitymission.org/books/english/vigil_v_potapov.htm
Yeh good idea in general and i have said something very similar to that - thanks though its good to hear it again. The full situation is that there is another potential Orthodox Christian being confused by a heretic and its her im concerned about.
 

SimpleMan

Sparrow
I found this at the end of a book/pdf i'm reading, within it's glossary of terms.
I was led to this book after watching a short video on this forum and learning more about the speaker.

Does this describe Orthodoxy faithfully as you all know?

— Orthodoxy: Literally, “correct opinion,” the body of biblical doctrines systematized by the creeds of the early Church, such as the Apostle’s Creed and the Nicene Creed. Orthodoxy on the primary level is the basis for unity among Christians of widely different beliefs and practices. On the secondary level, orthodoxy can refer to the doctrines of specific denominations and church movements. For instance, Calvinists and Arminians are both Protestant, but differ vehemently on soteriology. Each side holds to the creeds of the Church fathers which are orthodox in the primary sense, and so true Christians may hold diverse views and still have a basis for unity

I really like this unity they speak of despite the differences.

It also had this as a description:

— Catholicity: Unity or literally, “universality.” The term “Catholic” with an upper-case “C” is used to denote the Roman Catholic Church, while “catholic” with a lower-case “c” is used in creeds and confessions to denote all Christians. All true believers in Jesus Christ are, in this sense, catholic, because they hold to the universal faith. Any form of unity that does not necessitate the preservation of orthodoxy is a false unity.
 
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