The power of magic mushrooms

[sonoran_]

Expanding on Felix's detailed essay, I think this right here is key:

"Researchers explored this question by artificially increasing serotonin levels in vervet monkeys. The monkeys that received the spike became much calmer and more sociable, but they didn’t immediately become the dominant male. Instead, the injected monkey began engaging in pro-social behaviors, like grooming and gift giving, which eventually led to dominance in a few weeks. So instead of having an immediate, direct effect on status, serotonin seems to have a more indirect effect by encouraging behavior that can eventually lead to elevated status.

Think about happy-go-lucky people, who likely have higher amounts of natural serotonin in their brains; their calm, cooperative dispositions often ingratiate them to others, and can lead to higher status. Depressed folks, on the other hand, who have lower levels of serotonin, frequently can’t work up the motivation to socialize, and act out in angry and aggressive ways; this works to isolate them from others, and lower their status in the social hierarchy. "

From https://www.artofmanliness.com/articles/male-status-brain/

I've recently been contemplating the need to completely destroy my self and ego. Am I correct in saying that high doses of shrooms can restart ones personality, through the ego death.?

The preconditioned ideas accumulated in my psyche (ego?) all my life have been nothing but a heavy burden weighing me down by creating immense self doubt.

Ive used 2-3g of shrooms twice before, however I never built upon that serotonin momentum. Reading the above passage, having high serotonin doesnt immediately turn a loser into an alpha, he still needs to take action by engaging in pro-social behavior.

My goal for an upcoming trip will be to take a slightly higher dose (3.6g like Roosh) and thereafter take action to create positive feedback loops in different areas of my life.

 

[felix_vagabondo]

Am I correct in saying that high doses of shrooms can restart ones personality, through the ego death.?

Like changing the oil on an automobile, the benefits of a single, high-dose psylocibin trip are invaluable, albeit temporary. The personal experience can give you useful new insight (e.g., about the essential amorality of the universe, the membership of Homo sapiens in the animal kingdom, etc.) but eventually the boost of serotonin--with its calming, socializing effects, and its afterglow of confidence and ease--will recede, and, barring the emergence of new behaviors that could benefit his neural state over the long term, the user will inevitably return to his (depressed, anxious, beta male) default neural state. This return to the pre-trip baseline could take weeks or months, or it could be a matter of days, depending on the dosage and the other inputs (food, stress, sleep, exercise, etc.) affecting the user's neurochemical disposition. At which point, you could go ahead and have another big trip, with its wave of serotonin and eventual dissipation.

On the other hand, routine micro-dosing, in which the user consumes regular, perhaps daily or thrice-weekly doses of psylocibin of a much smaller quantity, perhaps too small even to experience a noticeable effect, offers users a practical strategy for enjoying these therapeutic and empowering effects on a long-term basis. Taken with his morning coffee, perhaps, the micro-doser will go about his day, going to work, socializing, etc., without experiencing a subjective (phenomenal) effect, and retaining the subjective and behavioral stability and sobriety needed for operating an automobile, working, etc., due to the limited dosage. However, on a neuro-chemical level, the psylocibin will be hard at work,allowing the user to benefit from increased baseline serotonin levels--and the accompanying social status--on a long-term basis. Micro-dosing offers the opportunity to very gradually increase the dosage in order to determine the maximum dosage one is capable of ingesting without beginning to experience the powerful subjective experience of a larger dose, a mental state that would be unsustainable day-to-day.

sonoran_, I feel you, man. Shrooms can absolutely help to lighten an emotional and mental load caused by high levels of stress, without the risks of overdose and addiction/dependency. But it concerns me to read that you want to

...completely destroy my self and ego.

I would advise that you try to take it easy on your self, and on your ego. Be grateful for the blessings in your life. Be gentle with yourself. We all have shortcomings. It's a good thing that you're alive, and the benefit of having an ego is that it helps with differentiating between yourself and the rest of the universe, a certain amount of which is useful and necessary, especially when dealing with women.

Also, I'm curious, are you working out frequently (3+x/wk) to the point where you're out of breath and sweating? With regards to helping clear out the mind's clutter, that's at least as useful as any medication you could try. I like to ride my bicycle for exercise, with the added benefit that whenever I see a hot pedestrian I can pull over more easily than in a car and approach. Also, to ease the mind, try meditation and yoga (you can find how-to's on youtube), which stimulate the brain to release its own supply of endogenous serotonin, as well as providing the player with access to yoga studios, certain of which are on most days nearly at capacity with fit, young women in yoga pants and sports bras, bending over forward in front of you and arcing their backs, and then you can approach them at the end of class. Finally, I find that hiking in nature can be refreshing and soothing in difficult moments.

 

[sonoran_]

Thanks Felix.

The most alive Ive ever felt is when microdosing with LSD at doses of 10-20ug even 30ug where the body and mental high adds a zest to life. However, like mentioned before, I never used the momentum for my benefit.

The most recent LSD I used for microdosing, 5 months ago, had soured my experience. I think it might have been a bad batch, as I did not notice the positive effects from before but rather just felt zoned out even at low doses.

Ive been on the "self improvement" ride for a long time but it feels like a stationary bike as there is no visible progress whatsoever. This is probably a reason for some frustration.

Im in the process of changing up my exercise routine to increase its intensity and will use your other suggestions as well.

Coincidentally, I can recall my 2nd most alive moment which was the day after my 1st intense heavy bag session. Ive never been able to fully replicate that moment tho lol.

For meditation I do candle gazing no blinking (trataka?) but Im not disciplined enough to do it everyday. Ill need to fix that.

 

[Swordfish1010]

I’ve done mushrooms about 5 times, haven’t done them in a while. I finally tried lsd and haven’t done mushrooms since as I prefer it. Probably tripped on lsd 10 times now, amazing drug.

 

[debeguiled]

There is a difference between thinking you are experiencing ego death and actually experiencing ego death.

It seems like mushrooms are giving a simulation of ego death, not the real thing.

True ego death would be too painful to bear for anyone because our whole mode of being is based on principles we have incorporated into our egos.

If you read some of the Christian mystics, John of the Cross for example, you find that the idea of ego death is a gradual one that happens in stages over the course of many years, and each little increment can be incredibly painful and take years to integrate into your world view.

Essentially over-simplified coping strategies are removed, leaving you feeling alone and defenseless against the world.

That is the essence of ego death.

I am not saying there isn't value, for some people, to mushrooms, and that even the mimicked experience of ego death cannot be valuable.

It's just that your ego cannot be gotten rid of so easily and there is no real way to ingest a substance and restart your personality or anything like that.

Better to take things like this for what they are and not as a panacea.

 

[lampshade]

I can give my experiences I've had microdosing. I've been doing it since january of this year. Most of my LSD microdoses have been at work though, so they are probably informed by that. I was doing 1 day on, 2 days off model. I never dosed on weekends though so I'd just skip through that. And sometimes I wouldn't dose on monday but would wait until later in the week.

LSD microdoses (5-8 mcg is what I've found to be the sweet spot for me, less than that I don't really feel much different)
-For the first 4 hours or so, I tend to have an increased euphoria and ability to laugh/joke around. I'd also say that it's more easy to become confused during this time, though at this dosing level, hasn't happened much for me.
-After the first 4 hour hump (peak) I find myself getting more introspective and more in my head for the next two hours or so. Though, I have also wound up talking for those two hours, but that was only one time. Not really sure.
-I notice that I tend to have this feeling like "I'm figuring things out and incorporating them into my new and improved world view" towards the tail end of the microdose. I also tend to talk about more biting and weird topics in my conversations.

20mcg LSD microdose (once)
-This is more of a "mini trip" than a microdose.
-I was definitely confused and overwhelmed by work I was trying to do during the peak of the experience. (though I was able to calm myself down, it's similar to in an actual trip)
-I was acting uncharacteristically happy at the job I had at the time, and my co-workers seemed to notice that I was acting not normal. (so word of caution against doing this at work--depending on your work environment and how reserved/upbeat you normally are with coworkers)
-Music sounded really good. I'm sure this didn't contribute towards looking normal to my coworkers.
-I only did this once at my last job (IT business casual office job), and was afraid to do this much again at work out of fear of getting fired/screwing up my transfer to my current job (IT casual fooseball/ping-pong style environment)

8mg 4-HO-MET oral microdose (4-substitued tryptamine, similar to shrooms) -- once
-I did took this right before a "hot pot" party (asian thing where they bring different dishes and drop them in hot water pots to cook stuff) my LTR was hosting at our house with a bunch of people I'd never met before.
-Wasn't enough for me to trip but things looked a little weird.
-Almost puked at one point but held it together. We were eating a lot of seafood.
-I was laughing a lot.
-One of the chicks gave me the "fuck me" eyes from across the table, even though she was with her boyfriend. It was a little awkward because he definitely noticed and she held eye contact for a really long time in front of everyone. Not sure if that's just because I'm sexy, her boyfriend (white dude) was not sexy at all, so it would have happened any way, or it was because my pupils were dilated a little, or because of how the microdose influenced my behavior. (serotonin maxed out/amped up?) She wasn't super hot or anything. Thought I would note this--could be unrelated.
-I wasn't super talkative and I didn't feel like a social god or anything. But I was laughing harder than normal. I was honestly unsure what would happen so a little nervous and also didn't want to weird out some of my LTR's friends by being too outrageous. (though they are largely acquaintances)

Anyway, those have been my microdosing experiences.

One thing I will say about it is that microdosing LSD may upregulate your serotonin receptors. Which would cause them to take in more serotonin than normal, and I believe it also increases BDNF which would increase growth of neurons. (disclaimer: I'm not a scientist or anything though, so that might just be broscience) So if you are doing this on regular basis and not a one-off trip, may contribute to a more positive mindset or other effects.

 

[Aurini]

I had a light dose recently; had to try it out before I do anything serious (and besides, I wasn't in a state of grace at the time). It's really interesting when vectors lose coherency; for a while there I could no longer track time linearly, wasn't sure when I was on the timeline. That dimension is largely illusory anyway, just a covenient and necessary assumptions for us mortal beings.

The insight I had - which is either very interesting or completely typical, depending on how you look at things - is that what we mistake for the political economy is really just a cover for something else. I mentioned vectors shifting around - well, I was suddenly seeing the world through two vectors which aren't usually considered, suffering and power/voice.

All of our institutions, politics, and economic theories are used as a cover to excuse and ignore those who are suffering unjustly, and who lack the agency/power/voice to make themselves heard. The slaves making your iPhones and animating your cartoons; forgotten, irrelevant, never a second-thought given to them.

Of course, you have those who suffer but are given/attain a voice - the obvious charity cases we all hear about (interesting how the charity only makes things worse, isn't it?), those who aren't suffering but have no voice (Middle America - good life, but don't expect a Hollywood movie which acknowledges you exist), and of course those who have no suffering and the loudest voice - the tyrants, the despots, the Social Justice Warrior, and the cultural leaders.

The game of internal politics is all about those latter ones making sure they don't slide into any of the other groups. Humanity be damned.

 

[Aurini]

A concrete example arrived this afternoon, which might help explain the word-salad I posted above.

I matched with a girl on a dating app, who works as a social worker; our interaction went about as well as you'd expect. She described her role as 'making excuses for people who need excuses'. No, that's just the outside appearance of what she does - providing some leeway, some bounce money, some social support for those who've suffered unjustly.

In reality she's a social hospice. She provides service so that those who suffered evil will shut up and sit down. She's a panacea. She bandaids over the wound, and sprays perfume in the air to cover up the scent of gangrene. A house negro. She has no voice or power, she's simply in the employ of helping those at the top silence those at the bottom.

Few things are what they appear.

 

[KMK]

Of course, you have those who suffer but are given/attain a voice - the obvious charity cases we all hear about (interesting how the charity only makes things worse, isn't it?)

Can you give examples?

 

[Aurini]

Of course, you have those who suffer but are given/attain a voice - the obvious charity cases we all hear about (interesting how the charity only makes things worse, isn't it?)

Can you give examples?

Just turn on the TV. We have endless examples in today's world. Women are absolutely miserable - we know that because they won't stop talking about it. The Blacks are doing terribly, with broken families and one third of their young men in prison. The starving children in Ethiopia got so bad it became a punchline in the 80s. We hear endlessly about them - and yet, nothing changes.

I don't feel like I'm answering the right question.

Just got back from a longer trip than last time. No spatial or temporal distortions on this one; spent most of it in prayer. Was occasionally interrupted (in between prayers, as if on time) by a girl texting me lovely theological questions: Why should God have to suffer so, for us? We don't deserve it. With all of the harsh things I've said about female nature in recent days, it's good to remember that some women are capable of empathy; a woman who is secure that her father/The Father loves her enough to die for her doesn't need to desperately monkey-branch, put on false veneers, and use men as ends to hold her back from the abyss of nihilistic oblivion. She can be naked in her empathy for anothers' suffering.

We can't relieve him of his burden. It is His burden. And His glory. What we can do is pick up our own crosses, and walk beside him up to Cavalry.

Anyway, back to the initial question.

I've been reflecting on Roosh's statements about his trip. "This is a playground built for us, there are just some house rules." This is something that has always rung true with me. There is so much limitless possibility for creating fun in this world; by following simple, moral laws, and respecting one anothers' dignity - well, this is basic Libertarianism, isn't it? There are two flaws with this world view.

1) The laws are a bit stricter than simply "Private Property Uber Alles". There are also laws about chastity, decorum, et cetera. Otherwise we damage the other vessels in our fleet.

2) Some people have forgotten that it's all a game. Instead of good-naturedly tossing the football around, they've turned it into a blood sport. The physical goods which come out of empires and corporations are merely the excuse for these tyrannies to exist. There are plenty of ways to organize an economy - the guild system, for instance, is an alternative you never hear spoken about these days - the drive for Empire is the drive to 'one up' the other players in this game. To put millions of them in fetters for one's own glory.

Suffering is a part of this world, but it's supposed to be fun. The suffering of lifting weights; the suffering of a good, honest fight! The suffering of watching your child graduate, and move on with their life. Not the suffering of watching your child become a dissipated wastrel.

Humans conspire against one another; that's normal, that's fun, that's what we do. But some of us are conspiring against the game. We've got an organized group of griefers who are running rampant over the servers. And as if that's not bad enough, they've managed to convince the groups they're griefing to accuse one another of being the griefers!

So what do we do about this? Well; I'm doing what I can to pick up my cross and walk next to my Lord. I'm asking him to melt my shattered, stone heart; to make it molten; to make it burn with love, no matter how much that hurts!

And in the meantime... we keep playing the game, honestly and forthright. And as for the griefers? Nothing we can do about them until the mods show up. Move on, and rebuild. It was never about that last building, anyway.

EDIT: The remainder of the trip report, if you're interested: some of it was spent on clearing up space in my head so that I could put programming into it, the rest was on dialogueing with right-brain; right brain doesn't have a voice, and any time I'm pushing myself hard, she's the one that suffers. I'm a pretty domineering person, and it's important that I not be domineering with my own self. Right brain needed some time to vent and be acknowledged, and tripping helps give her a presence that isn't otherwise obvious. In case talking with your own brain sounds nuts.

 

[AnonymousBosch]

Since God has given all his creations free will, some of those helpers, as with human beings, choose evil and wreak havoc.

No-one on the forum ever asked me why I suddenly-understood God was real. I met the bad ones.

Interestingly, my Sister went through the same experience around the same period: 2015. "They were so stupid. I could have gone right through my entire life thinking they were just a metaphor, instead they just..."

"... pissed you off?" I said, which is what I felt. Their existence offended me.

"Yeah, they just made me resolute they'd never get me."

You have no idea how tough she is, to stare that down.

Instinctively, we both invoked the name of Jesus Christ, and learnt the power of the name. They bow to it, but you can feel them hating having to do so.

The "why us?" aspect of it lead me to some very interesting Family revelations.

If you read some of the Christian mystics, John of the Cross for example, you find that the idea of ego death is a gradual one that happens in stages over the course of many years, and each little increment can be incredibly painful and take years to integrate into your world view.

Essentially over-simplified coping strategies are removed, leaving you feeling alone and defenseless against the world.

That is the essence of ego death.

St John of the Cross was, specifically, a Carmelite Mystic, dating from the Golden Age of Spanish Mysticism, which, co-incidentally erupted just after the Jews were expelled or forced to convert from Spain. The instigator was the Franciscan Mystic, Francisco De Osuna, though his works are now, obscure, even amongst the Religious Class. I've been reading this work, and would highly-recommend it to those far advanced in the spiritual life.

From there, the focus shifted to Carmelite Mystics like St John of the Cross and St Teresa of Avila.

This was the route I was guided to follow in my fight, through a series of Infused Knowledge, Mystical Experiences and seeing the action of the Holy Spirit in those that guided me.

By stripping away the world and dying to it, the connection with the Father only grows stronger. I'd say it's taken me since 2015 to get to the Dark Night of the Senses, though I'm still teetering back and forth on it. It strikes me as amazingly-fast, but I sense that time is short and this painful process has to happen quickly for me.

I've crossed the barrier into what is considered Supernatural Prayer a couple of times: this is where your body stills and you're seemingly-unable to move it, because you don't want to. You're resting in God without any thought beyond feeling Pure Love, but there's a strong sense of something happening that is Supernatural. This is a known-and-mapped out stage of prayer, and this happens without chemical stimulation.

I was ready to completely cut the outside world off a few weeks ago. What happened? I was taken to the doorway of the next stage of prayer beyond what I just described, and found it so hard to deal with the understanding of my nothingness before the all - He Who Is and You Who Are Not - that I fled like a coward, and have been distracting myself online for the last two weeks, too scared to go that deep again.

I'm hoping I haven't blown my chance. I sense I have to step through that door, and, if I do, that's the end of Bosch as I've known him, and all that remains will be of God.

I sense that Bosch has to die, and I sense he has little value except as a Servant of God, which I deeply-understand is what he was created to be. I now know that I was called to become, specifically, a Carmelite Monk during my teens, and didn't understand the message.

I just can't seem to make that final step. I was always a Rational, Materialist man, and can only move in the Spiritual Realm as a child. The knowledge of the Father is experienced without the safety net of being in a chemically-altered state, and is, as Debeguiled suggests, brutal to experience, because, as I've written elsewhere it was a stripping away of every coping mechanism. However, it's not negative: it has left me with surety of the Father; and the ability to cope with harsh reality.

The problem is, once experienced, nothing on earth can now compare to that connection. What am I going to do if I can't find my way back to it?

 

[pinchharmonic]

Do you guys think bi-weekly microdosing or a single larger amount (~3g+ worth) is best for unlocking the mind clearing power of shroooms?

 

[AwakenedApe]

Do you guys think bi-weekly microdosing or a single larger amount (~3g+ worth) is best for unlocking the mind clearing power of shroooms?

Very different stuff. Imo if you need to ask, then you should not do 3g, you should do 1g (cubensis) and increase max 1g per time until you get to 3g. If you want a clear mind then do bufo once, that will clear your mind, satori experience that will last a day and then make your mind calmer for a month afterwards...

 

[Stats]

You might throw up from larger doses voiding it.
Shrooms are the best drug to try. highly recommended for every one at least a few times in life.

 

[pinchharmonic]

Very different stuff. Imo if you need to ask, then you should not do 3g, you should do 1g (cubensis) and increase max 1g per time until you get to 3g. If you want a clear mind then do bufo once, that will clear your mind, satori experience that will last a day and then make your mind calmer for a month afterwards...

Is bufo the same or different experience compared to ayahuasca?

 

[AwakenedApe]

Is bufo the same or different experience compared to ayahuasca?

Similar molecules but very different experiences. Aya is many hours, nausea and you see spirits. Bufo is a few minutes, your illusions just vanishes in front of you and you see the world as it is. It’s like smoking DMT, but the journey is more relaxed, less crazy, more enlightening rather than inspiring.

 

[Leads]

The key is making a space for the experience. (IE: outdoors in nature) I recently told this to a newb who did the exact opposite, locked in his room watching CNN or some bullshit. Needless to say, the makings of a bad trip. My first was LSD and was an indoor bad trip but I had many good subsequent trips after that. Shrooms are best and there are many different strains to explore

You can get them online now - one site is canada only whereas the other is US based and ships anywhere.

 

[kel]

Honestly, I think staying inside might be a good idea for one's first trip, that way you feel safe and warm (or cool), can put on something silly to watch to distract yourself if things turn in a direction you don't like, you can have your food situation sorted, etc. Nature is wonderful, but somewhere safe and stable is nice, too. But, yeah, obviously, watching CNN or getting on social media is a terrible idea. Just need to put on music, maybe some visuals, be with a close friend or lover, and chill.

 

[AwakenedApe]

Maxx both setting and set. Then the magical world becomes wonderful. Cheat on the set or setting and the magical world can become horrible. Never get too confident, just because you have had many good trips does not make you immune to bad trips...

 

[pinchharmonic]

Maxx both setting and set. Then the magical world becomes wonderful. Cheat on the set or setting and the magical world can become horrible. Never get too confident, just because you have had many good trips does not make you immune to bad trips...

What do you mean by set?

I did my only heavy (3.5g) dose on my bed in the dark, after reading that Terrence McKenna said to do that. Honestly did not enjoy it much and didn't gain much. Don't think that type of trip is good for people who are already very overly internal thinkers. A good spot in nature seems a lot better because you would focus more on the beauty of the world - which is really the cure for any overthinkers anyway.

Since then I've just done a few .3-5g microdoses that I've enjoyed a lot in a subtle way.