The reason you dislike Islam

Louis IX

Pelican
Dude, a fair number of Ukrainian women are Muslims: there is a Tatar Muslim minority in Crimea which comprises roughly 15% of the population there.

In fact, the opera singer Jamala (Susana Alimivna Jamaladinova) won the 2016 Eurovision Song Contest for Ukraine (their second victory in the competition):

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She even had a stamp issued in her honour by Ukrposhta:

Jamala_2017_stamp_of_Ukraine.jpg
Ukraine do not like Muslims and Crimean Tatars are now under control . Jews who control Ukraine haven't found a way yet to Islamise Ukraine but be sure that Islam has no chance to spread there.
 

Serie A1

Woodpecker
Turkey is the first Muslim majority nation I visited, in 2011. I did that after a long tour of Europe. I went with an open mind.

Several things that I felt:
1. Minarets.
They blare loud enough that everything gets interrupted -- if you are sleeping, you are woken up, if you are at dinner, conversation stops, it is too loud to do anything else. While I am visiting Muslim countries, I don't mind them - I come as a visitor. But, Muslims want to install minarets all over Europe and North America. Blaring your prayer so loud is not acceptable to me, I think it literally falls under noise complaints. Church bells are different; they tell the time, and frankly they sound better.

2. The Hijab, Burka, Nikab.
I do respect that this clothing allows women a "fashionable" way to dress modestly. I think that is commendable. But the reality is that most Muslim women are compelled into it. Can you correct any of this? In truly religious, Muslim areas:
- Women must wear the hijab(or whatever variant)
- They cannot have the sun on their skin in a major way (I'm white; Muslim Turkish women are more pale than me despite their natural complexion)
- They don't look you in the eye
- They don't exactly get to take PE classes; they're mostly/all skinnyfat
- They have been treated like such helpless people for so long that now they are.
Muslims basically made me seem like a feminist by comparison. This ultimately made me feel like, "The hijab is a tool. It is a cage used for the subjugation of women."

3. In Kyrgyzstan, they are much more moderate. I didn't mind anything there, they honestly seemed pretty normal, or similar to Westerners. Ultimately they worship the same God as Christians(same with Jews), just with an entirely different interpretation.

4. The penalty for apostasy is death. Not all Muslims adhere to this -- but enough feel strongly against apostasy, that most young Muslims basically do not have a choice.

Overall:
If the penalty for apostasy is death, how can we even discuss anything else?
1. The call to prayer from minarets was actually much quieter in urban areas until the mid-twentieth century when large parts of the Islamic world started to industrialise. That's when many mosques switched from using the human voice alone to one with a microphone + amplifier setup – ironically, to counter industrial noise-pollution.

In terms of minarets being all over Europe, they are already all over much of south-east Europe, and have been for many centuries now. The few ones in Western Europe are generally either dormant (i.e. there is no mosque there – it was converted into a church or municipal building), or don't have permission to broadcast the call to prayer.

2. There is actually a huge push – backed by governments – to get women exercising in a number of Muslim-majority countries. This has also been backed by resources expended on professional teams. Turkish clubs have dominated women's volleyball for the last decade, and rank #1 in the world with rosters of mostly domestic players:


You can see a CEV Champions League game featuring two Turkish sides here:

 

Hermetic Seal

Kingfisher
Orthodox
Gold Member
The problem with the "Islam is growing in the West while Christianity is declining!" line of thought is that it's an illusion caused by immigration. The children of Muslim immigrants tend to end up as westernized and secular as anybody else. If Muslim demographics were really a threat in the US, our globohomo oligarchic overlords wouldn't be so enthusiastic about it, but when it only takes 1-2 generations for Clown World to infect their children, it's little obstacle to their overall agenda. Even the upper-midwest Somalis will just wind up getting subsumed into standard black American ghetto culture after a few years.

Of course you have a number of fanatics who wind up reacting harshly to their adopted culture, and join extremist groups. But what happens to say, Orthodox Christians who have the same reaction? Like Father Seraphim Rose, they go out and become monastics and wage war with the pen instead of blowing up Charlie Hebdo. The disparate reactions between Christians and Muslims to cultural degeneracy says a lot about their respective belief systems and worldview.
 

Sitting Bull

Woodpecker
If Muslim demographics were really a threat in the US, our globohomo oligarchic overlords wouldn't be so enthusiastic about it

In the US or anywhere else in the Western world. By the way, the oligarchic overlords are enthusiastic not only about mainstream, non-extremist Islam (i.e. consumerism normie culture repackaged as Islam ; "my religion is football" as a Muslim member of this forum put it), they also love and fund "extremist" Islam. Just like in the Right/Left dialectic, they favor one or the other according to their needs of the moment.
 
Hence I'm not going to waste time on that. What I really want to know are your arguments and reasons that make you suspicious and/or dislike Islam. I read almost every thread on here about Islam but coudn't find truly in-depth, comprehensive and well-articulated thoughts from people who are against it. So please reply only if you have some interesting points to make that support your negative view of it. I'm obviously not talking about superficial things like "terrorism/Isis/violence/etc.", i.e. things that the majority of the Muslim community itself despises and doesn't support. I am more interested in theological/social/structural criticism of the "traditional" Islam.
I will say that I think it is commendable for you to open yourself up to this form of critique of your religion. I think it takes courage to be willing to listen to criticism of any sort, especially your religion. What you are doing is not required but I still think it is to your credit.

From my perspective as a westerner, I don't know that I can divorce my dislike for Islam from the "superficial things like 'terrorism/Isis/violence/etc.'" because for me, it is precisely the things that you call "superficial" that make me dislike Islam. To insist that I not discuss those things as if there should be no causal link between my disdain for Islam and the acts done in the name of Islam, assumes that you think I should only focus on other aspects of Islam's inherent unworthiness as a religion. I find it a difficult ask on your part to divorce those two realities.

Additionally, where I live I am surrounded by peoples from various nations and religions and I find that for the most part, I know nothing about their religion because they are quiet about it and believe in living out their lives in relative obscurity with respect to their religion. Islam seems to stand out for all of the wrong reasons. It is held up as a religion of peace but yet many of its adherents commit unbelievable acts of violence against humanity. Some of the most barbaric acts of violence I am aware of that were done in the name of any organized religion were committed by Islam. That is not to say that other religions haven't committed acts of violence, I'm merely talking about what events I am familiar with.

I will say that I have had Muslim friends in my lifetime and I feel that they were just as good of a human being as anybody else. I admired many of them for their kindness and friendship. I know not every Muslim wants to cause harm. However, I still think that because there are many adherents of Islam that are bent on violence, it is foolish to ignore those types of people, especially given their numbers and growing progeny in the world.
 

cosine

Robin
1. The call to prayer from minarets was actually much quieter in urban areas until...

In terms of minarets being all over Europe, they are already all over much of south-east Europe...
Honestly, don't care. I hope they stay quiet forever, or better yet are demolished. Don't bring noise to non-Muslim countries.

2. There is actually a huge push – backed by governments – to get women exercising in a number of Muslim-majority countries.
You ask why we dislike Islam. We bring up legitimate reasons, and you just bring up counter-arguments, you don't really acknowledge them.
 

Pantheon

Sparrow
Orthodox
The problem with Islam as I see it is its very abstract and impersonal notion of God. The Christian God has descended to the level of Man, so that we can develop a personal relationship with him. Through Jesus Christ, moral agency becomes more important than outer obedience. Islam is more authoritative, and you must never question the "father" or look into his eyes. Jesus you may speak to as he was your friend, which allows you to develop a more dynamic prayer life.

Since the Islamic God is impersonal and completely deincarnate, you can't really communicate with him on a personal level and have an inner dialogue, which reduces worship to ritualistic and repetitive one-way submission. I'm not saying Islamic prayer is bad, but ultimately I think that Christianity provides the higher perspective. Because it fully recognizes the individual, whereas Islam is more collectivistic. In the end though, everything comes down to the practitioner. There are more enlightened Muslims than Christians, and vice versa. Islam also has an established and official tradition of esoteric schools (Sufism) with very advanced spiritual teachings.
 

get2choppaaa

Pelican
IF anyone watched the Roosh video with the "muslim skeptic" you see a perfect reason why Christians dont like Muslims.

The victimhood that chubby jabronie espoused was a perfect example.

Constantly complaining about the people in the west (yet living in the USA) , while advocating that they owe Muslims something.... is a perfect example of how Muslims are totally in line with main stream liberal victim culture. Calling Roosh a racist repeatedly... having his followers chiming in with the same repeated complaints, mischaracterizing macro-Christian comments, pushing a globalist Islamic agenda ect...

Really I am convinced that Islam is a geopolitical system first, and a secular/individual religion second vs Christianity, which seeks to be a individual religion first, and then reinforce geopolitical agendas.
 
Constantly complaining about the people in the west (yet living in the USA) , while advocating that they owe Muslims something....
They're doing this on purpose. Who built that Mecca Clock Tower Complex? Majority of the material, engineering blue prints etc came from Kufar/infidel nations. They drive around in luxury kufar cars, use kufar luxury brands and the list goes on.

Muslims, the orthodox and moderate ones, constantly complain about the west because they see it as vile and not inline with sharia and allah's will, yet when it comes to munching on benefits and free speech they're all for it but still slander it. Disassociate from these type of people, it's like blaming an apple tree for giving you only apples, how stupid is that?

Most zealous Muslims, which there are many of them, are angry they could not get past the walls of Vienna. Many of them are angry that Israel stands today and that they can't to anything about it. Many are angry that they had their clutches on India under the Mughal rule and still couldn't convert the entire sub continent to Islam. Don't get me started on the Islamic "Golden" age either. For example the "Arab" numeric system is said to be a big Muslim thing, it's not, the specific numerical system long existed in the Sanskrit/Hindu/Brahmi linguistic line.

Look at every single Muslim majority nation today. What have they given in the fields of science? Mathematics? Literature? Philosophy? Criticize Muhammad and they go on rampages, they do this because their feelings get hurt, they don't know the real Muhammad or they try to deflect external research by curious third parties into Islam and Muhammad's true nature. A snake has its mouth closed majority of the time, but just because its closed does not mean the fangs are not there.

I don't like how everyone is catering to Muslims here in the west. Yes we are secular countries, but we were founded on Christian values. We don't want your sharia law etc. I don't mind majority of Muslims, they don't bother me and they mind their own business, the issue is Islam and how easily Muslims fall into the true Islamic mindset.

Funny, in speakers corner you have Muslims blasting how all religions are false and b.s and they can give dawah. Now give me a Muslim majority nation where I can openly call Islam out on being false and try to convert Muslims to Christianity, Jainism etc. They act like babies when they're the minority and you question Islam, imagine what they'd do when they are the majority here in the west, here's a clue, head goes chop.
 

Pantheon

Sparrow
Orthodox
There's a very simple reason to dislike Islam: it is false.

I have nothing against Muslims themselves, as long as they leave Christians alone.

For me it's the opposite. I respect Islam as a valid religious tradition (in its own right), but I see Muslim demographics as a problem. Not necessarily because they are Muslim, but because of the inconsistencies of secular liberalism and its inability to handle religious pluralism. I used to be very critical of Islam, but now I think it plays into the wrong hands. Demographics is a problem but religion is not. After all, Islam is less foreign to Europe than atheism. In the Ottoman Empire, Muslims and Christians could co-exist under some form of code of conduct, whereas the secular west has no answer as how to accommodate an ever increasing Muslim presence, except provoking them with satire.
 

911

Peacock
Gold Member
They're doing this on purpose. Who built that Mecca Clock Tower Complex? Majority of the material, engineering blue prints etc came from Kufar/infidel nations. They drive around in luxury kufar cars, use kufar luxury brands and the list goes on.

Muslims, the orthodox and moderate ones, constantly complain about the west because they see it as vile and not inline with sharia and allah's will, yet when it comes to munching on benefits and free speech they're all for it but still slander it. Disassociate from these type of people, it's like blaming an apple tree for giving you only apples, how stupid is that?

Most zealous Muslims, which there are many of them, are angry they could not get past the walls of Vienna. Many of them are angry that Israel stands today and that they can't to anything about it. Many are angry that they had their clutches on India under the Mughal rule and still couldn't convert the entire sub continent to Islam. Don't get me started on the Islamic "Golden" age either. For example the "Arab" numeric system is said to be a big Muslim thing, it's not, the specific numerical system long existed in the Sanskrit/Hindu/Brahmi linguistic line.

Look at every single Muslim majority nation today. What have they given in the fields of science? Mathematics? Literature? Philosophy? Criticize Muhammad and they go on rampages, they do this because their feelings get hurt, they don't know the real Muhammad or they try to deflect external research by curious third parties into Islam and Muhammad's true nature. A snake has its mouth closed majority of the time, but just because its closed does not mean the fangs are not there.

I don't like how everyone is catering to Muslims here in the west. Yes we are secular countries, but we were founded on Christian values. We don't want your sharia law etc. I don't mind majority of Muslims, they don't bother me and they mind their own business, the issue is Islam and how easily Muslims fall into the true Islamic mindset.

Funny, in speakers corner you have Muslims blasting how all religions are false and b.s and they can give dawah. Now give me a Muslim majority nation where I can openly call Islam out on being false and try to convert Muslims to Christianity, Jainism etc. They act like babies when they're the minority and you question Islam, imagine what they'd do when they are the majority here in the west, here's a clue, head goes chop.

A lot of your post and some of the other ones on this thread are infused with the neoconservative ethos, which is the lens through which the Muslim world is viewed across the West, but especially in America. People like Bernard Lewis have not only shaped the Western mind to further their zionist goals, but they have also radically reshaped Islam itself, fostering the brands that best suit their goals, very much the same way they have reshaped Christianity through for example the Dispensationalist movement and the subversion of Catholicism with Vatican II.

Wahhabism was a highly heretical theological subversion of Islam that was propped up by the British in the 19th century under the tutelage of the Rothshilds, who literally owned the Suez Canal and were already laying plans for the takeover of Palestine. Wahhabism took over Arabia with the military support of the British, then propagated worldwide and took over under American control through the Petrodollar system.

Along with Wahhabism, Salafist Islam developed through the Muslim Brotherhood, which was a masonic movement also set up with the help of the British and French lodges. Its founders and leading intellectuals were all masons whose goals were to bring the Muslim world to the one world religion. They've planted within Salafism the seeds of the destruction of the Islamic world, nowhere is that dynamic more clear than in the Levant the last 20 years, with the rise of ISIS/AQ.

Islam and Logos were not completely incompatible off the bat, this was the thesis of E. Michael Jones in his book with that title. At one point in the middle ages, the Islamic faith veered off into darkness and never recovered. It would be false however to claim that the muslim civilization was always backwards, they did build on Greek civilization and thought, in science, medicine, architecture and maths, with for example the invention of decimal points and fractions, which the Indians didn't have.

The modern West has been founded on judeo-masonic values, which have gradually supplanted the Christian values that prevailed a century or two ago. Ironically enough, Muslim values are a lot closer to those older values than the current modern ones, this is a point that needs to be highlighted in this thread. Going forward, with the modern moral upheaval gathering strength, more people are going to start realizing this.

The best/most objective works on Islam were early works in the French language, with works like Gustave Le Bon's Civilization of Arabs. Le Bon is arguably one of the top 5 French intellectuals of all time, at least in my book, his work on crowd psychology is the foundation of modern sociology and the notion of the collective unconscious, the dynamics that control us. John Glubb's take (author of the excellent Fate of Empires essay), in his History of the Arab Peoples, is fairly similar to Le Bon's.

Pierre Hillard, Yousef Hindi, Jean-Michel Vernochet are all great authors and some of the leading current political scientists/intellectuals, they have covered modern Islam and the jihadi movement with the kind of great insight that is almost impossible to find in the anglosphere.
 
I do not judge islam by suicide bombers, for the same reason I don't want The Catholic Church judged by the demonic-like Mccarrick. You don't just a religion by its worst members, or even its best members. There is one, and only one, criteria for judging a religion: Its founder.

muhammed was at best a narcissistic murderous pedophile rapist (who may not even have existed for that matter), and at worst he was possessed by demon(s). I have studied the life of muhammed, and I have come to the reasonable conclusion that he was a false prophet, he is not worthy of me following him, and islam is a false religion, with foundations no more stable than the shifting sands of Arabia.

The death penalty for leaving islam is proof-positive that islam is false.

Imagine:

A young man quietly comes into your mosque. He watches you pray, he then tries hard to mimic you, and eventually accepting your help in learning the islamic prayers. He picks up a copy of the quran, and every week he keeps coming back, improving every time, and he comes back with more and more good questions. You come to him after some time, and say, "Would you like to make this official, take the shahadah, and become a muslim?" And the young man replies: "I believe muhammed was a true prophet, but unfortunately, Jesus commanded those who leave his religion to be killed, so I cannot become a muslim, my life would be forfeit."

How fast would you and your fellow muslims get together, and go marching to that young man's pastor's or parent's house, bang on the door at 3 in the morning if you had to, and demand to know what was going on. "How can your religion be true if people leaving it can be killed!" You would yell at that pastor. "Can't Christianity stand up with logical nonviolent arguments! If it were true, you wouldn't need to threaten people's lives to keep them!" Another would say. "Your violent religion is keeping our new friend from the truth path! Come out and answer for your silly beliefs!" Yet another would yell.

If that were the case, you and your muslim friends would be 100% right.

That is (just one of) the same argument Christians have been making against islam since muhammed founded his false religion.

That is just one argument against islam. There are many more... From the false beliefs and claims that I can only surmise came from demons, to muhammed's example from his life, his warped morality, his lack of mercy, his dividing the world into "kufar vs muslims", the utter lack of historical evidence for early islam, and many other issues, are the reason I and many others find islam very distasteful.
 

Pantheon

Sparrow
Orthodox
There is one, and only one, criteria for judging a religion: Its founder.

muhammed was at best a narcissistic murderous pedophile rapist (who may not even have existed for that matter), and at worst he was possessed by demon(s). I have studied the life of muhammed, and I have come to the reasonable conclusion that he was a false prophet, he is not worthy of me following him, and islam is a false religion, with foundations no more stable than the shifting sands of Arabia.

Those are just baseless slurs and pointless religious slandering based on conjecture. Typical secular buffoonery, lacking any respect for what is sacred.
 
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It's more just a dislike of Arabs/non-whites for most people.

Sure, we dislike Islam too because it's alien to our culture/way of life, but it's more just a proxy for the racial issue. Is something of a racism hall pass that Jews give out... Hating Islam for not being liberal enough blah blah blah Tommy Robinson Shalom.

Whites should stop cucking and just say their dislike is for the racial invasion of their homelands. It's a much stronger position.
 
A lot of your post and some of the other ones on this thread are infused with the neoconservative ethos, which is the lens through which the Muslim world is viewed across the West, but especially in America. People like Bernard Lewis have not only shaped the Western mind to further their zionist goals, but they have also radically reshaped Islam itself, fostering the brands that best suit their goals, very much the same way they have reshaped Christianity through for example the Dispensationalist movement and the subversion of Catholicism with Vatican II.

Wahhabism was a highly heretical theological subversion of Islam that was propped up by the British in the 19th century under the tutelage of the Rothshilds, who literally owned the Suez Canal and were already laying plans for the takeover of Palestine. Wahhabism took over Arabia with the military support of the British, then propagated worldwide and took over under American control through the Petrodollar system.

Along with Wahhabism, Salafist Islam developed through the Muslim Brotherhood, which was a masonic movement also set up with the help of the British and French lodges. Its founders and leading intellectuals were all masons whose goals were to bring the Muslim world to the one world religion. They've planted within Salafism the seeds of the destruction of the Islamic world, nowhere is that dynamic more clear than in the Levant the last 20 years, with the rise of ISIS/AQ.

Islam and Logos were not completely incompatible off the bat, this was the thesis of E. Michael Jones in his book with that title. At one point in the middle ages, the Islamic faith veered off into darkness and never recovered. It would be false however to claim that the muslim civilization was always backwards, they did build on Greek civilization and thought, in science, medicine, architecture and maths, with for example the invention of decimal points and fractions, which the Indians didn't have.

The modern West has been founded on judeo-masonic values, which have gradually supplanted the Christian values that prevailed a century or two ago. Ironically enough, Muslim values are a lot closer to those older values than the current modern ones, this is a point that needs to be highlighted in this thread. Going forward, with the modern moral upheaval gathering strength, more people are going to start realizing this.

The best/most objective works on Islam were early works in the French language, with works like Gustave Le Bon's Civilization of Arabs. Le Bon is arguably one of the top 5 French intellectuals of all time, at least in my book, his work on crowd psychology is the foundation of modern sociology and the notion of the collective unconscious, the dynamics that control us. John Glubb's take (author of the excellent Fate of Empires essay), in his History of the Arab Peoples, is fairly similar to Le Bon's.

Pierre Hillard, Yousef Hindi, Jean-Michel Vernochet are all great authors and some of the leading current political scientists/intellectuals, they have covered modern Islam and the jihadi movement with the kind of great insight that is almost impossible to find in the anglosphere.
I respect what you’ve written and it’s both enlightening and concise. But I’m not talking from a neo conservative perspective and I don’t care for the perspective either. I’m against the wars the U.S indulges as it’s a waste of resources on all fronts. I was Muslim for more than five years, if you’ve read one of my post which delved into that you’d see where I’m coming from.

Having a stable family unit that’s well protected with engrained family values isn’t a religious thing more so than it’s a cultural thing. Homosexuality as a sin, pre marital sexual resisting external temptations, these are not all exclusive to religion or culture.

Wahhabism is a recent term and you’ve explained it very well in regards to how the British added gasoline to that fire. But go to any moderate and “above” Muslim household and see the truth for yourself on how they feel about Christians, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs etc. And these aren’t the kind of Muslim’s who are on the street chanting death to America etc. Just like Trump had a silent majority Islam has a silent majority as well.

The Muslim “dynamic” is desirable now to us, those that have a lick of common sense, because the western culture itself is imploding due to degeneracy. When you’re desperate you’ll cling to whatever suits your perspective closest even if it doesn’t tick all the boxes.

Take whatever you want from me as a grain of salt. I was born into a non Muslim family, converted, kept my conversion under wraps, fought against my own family members for years until the truth hit me like a ton of bricks. Like I said, if you did read all of my previous posts you’d know I don’t come from a neo conservative perspective or get my information from reddit posts.

It’s like that scene in Goodwill Hunting. The kid knew all the facts, but he knew nothing about personally experiencing all the things he talked about from history books etc.
 
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Talking about Islam without differentiating between the various sects and their geopolitical development over the last few centuries is like lumping American LGBT flag bearing Protestant churches with Ethiopian oriental orthodoxy, then saying “Christians do XYZ.”

It’s dumb, it’s misinformed, and if you’re a conservative Christian, it’s almost certainly against your own interests. Deprogram yourself of the anti-Islam propaganda coming from post-9/11 media first.

I’m sure this is an unpopular opinion on this nominally Christian forum, but Christianity is just as much of a Middle Eastern religion as Islam is, if not moreso. Criticizing it by saying it’s “not European” is nonsense.
 

Peter22

Pigeon
The dude now gave 1 answer within 1 month... no need for me to present my position when he´s not engaging in discussion.
Many good points here already, of-course.
My main reason is not the content of Mohammedanism but that they invade our countries. If they didn´t invade our countries: who would even care the least effing bit about Mohammedanism? It´s ONLY a subject because they invade our countries, otherwise, nobody would talk anything about it (addendum : of-course a big source of all is the jews´ intention to stir up conflict between Whites and Mohammedans in order to garner support for their landgrab).
 
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