The Ron DeSantis Thread

dicknixon72

Pelican
Sadly, I think most Americans are war hawks at heart.

Disagree, unless you're speaking of the elite. Most Americans speak loudly, carry a big stick, and end up barking more than anything. We as a people are very gun-shy; it took the deliberate sinking of a civilian liner and threat of border incursion from Mexico to prod us into the Great War and a visually-cataclysmic attack on our territorial holdings for us to enter the Second World War.

Americans tolerate a rather thin line of bloodshed to continue supporting military action - too little, and we feel it isn't worth the potential deaths; too much, and we demand to withdraw.

The only reason why the current adventures in the Middle East have lasted so long is because those in charge have learned that Americans tend to ignore long, drawn-out low-intensity conflicts in unknown locales utilizing range and technology for 'clean battlefields.'
 

MartyMcFly

Ostrich
Other Christian
Disagree, unless you're speaking of the elite. Most Americans speak loudly, carry a big stick, and end up barking more than anything. We as a people are very gun-shy; it took the deliberate sinking of a civilian liner and threat of border incursion from Mexico to prod us into the Great War and a visually-cataclysmic attack on our territorial holdings for us to enter the Second World War.

Americans tolerate a rather thin line of bloodshed to continue supporting military action - too little, and we feel it isn't worth the potential deaths; too much, and we demand to withdraw.

The only reason why the current adventures in the Middle East have lasted so long is because those in charge have learned that Americans tend to ignore long, drawn-out low-intensity conflicts in unknown locales utilizing range and technology for 'clean battlefields.'
The reason I say this is because Americans reelected George W. Bush despite knowledge that he invaded Iraq without just cause. He actually won with a higher success rate than in 2000. One could argue that Kerry was a bad choice, but there are millions of other men that were eligible to run against Bush, including many conservatives. Bush got 98% of the vote in the 2004 republican primaries proving most conservatives sided with him. In the 2004 election, 99% of people voted for either Kerry or Bush meaning 99% of Americans supported candidates that voted for the Iraq War. One may argue that Kerry backtracked on the war, but there were several politicians that knew it was a bad idea to vote for it in the beginning. Why didn't Kerry know?

Maybe stating most Americans are war hawks is a bit unfair. I should say most Americans want the USA to be a superpower and believe the USA should be in the UN, NATO, and should engage in foreign attacks to 'protect our interests' and 'support human rights' in other nations. Most Americans will support foreign intervention provided the wording is done in a nice way. Your last sentence is quite accurate. Americans can feel good about putting a yellow ribbon on their car and not making any other sacrifices except being told to spend more to help the economy. I worry DeSantis would be happy sending Americans to another war if a general and/or some lobbyists told him to.


Personally, I am very much against the UN and NATO. However, most Americans, to include DeSantis, support it (although at a reduced level).


  • 77% of Americans say NATO should be maintained
  • 66% say the United Nations plays a necessary role in the world
 

Parmesan

Kingfisher
Other Christian
The reason I say this is because Americans reelected George W. Bush despite knowledge that he invaded Iraq without just cause. He actually won with a higher success rate than in 2000. One could argue that Kerry was a bad choice, but there are millions of other men that were eligible to run against Bush, including many conservatives. Bush got 98% of the vote in the 2004 republican primaries proving most conservatives sided with him. In the 2004 election, 99% of people voted for either Kerry or Bush meaning 99% of Americans supported candidates that voted for the Iraq War. One may argue that Kerry backtracked on the war, but there were several politicians that knew it was a bad idea to vote for it in the beginning. Why didn't Kerry know?

Maybe stating most Americans are war hawks is a bit unfair. I should say most Americans want the USA to be a superpower and believe the USA should be in the UN, NATO, and should engage in foreign attacks to 'protect our interests' and 'support human rights' in other nations. Most Americans will support foreign intervention provided the wording is done in a nice way. Your last sentence is quite accurate. Americans can feel good about putting a yellow ribbon on their car and not making any other sacrifices except being told to spend more to help the economy. I worry DeSantis would be happy sending Americans to another war if a general and/or some lobbyists told him to.


Personally, I am very much against the UN and NATO. However, most Americans, to include DeSantis, support it (although at a reduced level).


  • 77% of Americans say NATO should be maintained
  • 66% say the United Nations plays a necessary role in the world
The party primaries are definitely not a good representation of the sentiment of the general public. Republicans, at that time, were a party of back slapping, corporatist, country club elitists. GWB was the safe insider that would play ball with all the patronage from Wall Street, defense contractors, etc. Trump pretty much broke the Republican party, so comparisons to that era are somewhat difficult. Americans’ mentality and political awareness has also changed quite a bit. Contrarian, red pill type of thought was barely entering the mainstream back then. Sure, every now and then you’d hear someone talk about money printing, birth rates, and cultural decay, but they were often portrayed as fringe, irrelevant weirdos. I think a lot of Americans are much more awake and informed to the realities of the world now, even if its amateur hour by the standards of this forum and other long standing corners of red pill thought. I believe this is why the left is becoming increasingly violent and unhinged, as while they may be technically winning right now with their hold on cultural and political institutions, the delusions that have been carefully nurtured all these years by Hollywood, the media, our politicians, etc. is losing resolution as the truth becomes ever more shared and visible. They are rushing to censor all these platforms now, because they know they accidently opened Pandora’s box by giving plebs the same stage and microphones as the elites. The old stereotype of the right as war mongers is hard to decipher now, because the military industrial complex appears to have gone Dem, as well as increasingly the globalists. I think most American conservatives now want to build a self sufficient, isolationist, middle class America, but I could be mistaken.
 

Easy_C

Peacock
Maybe stating most Americans are war hawks is a bit unfair. I should say most Americans want the USA to be a superpower and believe the USA should be in the UN, NATO, and should engage in foreign attacks to 'protect our interests' and 'support human rights' in other nations. Most Americans will support foreign intervention provided the wording is done in a nice way. Your last sentence is quite accurate. Americans can feel good about putting a yellow ribbon on their car and not making any other sacrifices except being told to spend more to help the economy. I worry DeSantis would be happy sending Americans to another war if a general and/or some lobbyists told him to.
Ehhhhh.

Dunno. A surprisingly large portion of "Trumpistan", namely the type you see running around with Trump flags and pickup trucks in hunting cammo, will cheerlead for war almost reflexively as long as they think liberals don't want the way. Most of the ones I ran into at the time were in favor of bombing Syria and they loved it when Trump did it.

Never underestimate how much Americans love to be able to feel like they're tough because of watching someone else on TV perform violence.
 

Parmesan

Kingfisher
Other Christian
I don't think most people necessarily knew in 2004 that Iraq didn't have WMDs. I'm actually not necessarily sure W himself knew at that point.
I think WMD was just an excuse either way. Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld were such cringe boomer neo-cons, you couldn’t make up better fodder for lefties. The Iraq war was basically the equivalent of your boomer dad taking out his new $1500 snowblower on an inch of snow, just because he has it. Corpo Republicans paved the path for Obama and the leftism we see today, millennials grew up laughing at these guys on the Daily Show, and frankly, most of it was justified.
 

Dr Mantis Toboggan

Pelican
Catholic
Gold Member
I think WMD was just an excuse either way. Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld were such cringe boomer neo-cons, you couldn’t make up better fodder for lefties. The Iraq war was basically the equivalent of your boomer dad taking out his new $1500 snowblower on an inch of snow, just because he has it. Corpo Republicans paved the path for Obama and the leftism we see today, millennials grew up laughing at these guys on the Daily Show, and frankly, most of it was justified.

Yeah basically agree. I always got the sense W was conflicted between wanting to do the right thing and listening to neocons like Cheney, but who knows. In Rumsfeld's defense he at least served himself unlike Cheney, and I've heard he was the leading voice within the administration trying to keep the Afghanistan conflicted limited (basically air power and special operations, not a massive ground invasion) but lost that struggle.
 

Easy_C

Peacock
I think WMD was just an excuse either way. Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld were such cringe boomer neo-cons, you couldn’t make up better fodder for lefties. The Iraq war was basically the equivalent of your boomer dad taking out his new $1500 snowblower on an inch of snow, just because he has it. Corpo Republicans paved the path for Obama and the leftism we see today, millennials grew up laughing at these guys on the Daily Show, and frankly, most of it was justified.

It was the equivalent of your boomer dad taking out $1500 for a new snowblower on an inch of snow, buying the $500 snowblower, and pocketing the rest for beer money.
 

MartyMcFly

Ostrich
Other Christian

It did make China more materialistic and shallow so in that way the WTO 'helped' China. Many modern Chinese people love Starbucks, obesity rates are rising thanks to western fast food, Chinese teens are addicted to social media just like US teens, etc... Chinese people have absorbed plenty of shallow American Corporate values. They are actually too much like Americans which is no longer a good thing.

The governor seems confused about what American values are these days. I doubt most American elites care whether Chinese people have freedom of speech, freedom of the press and religion, or have real democracy. The governor still thinks western values are good and this is old-fashioned and he doesn't seem to realize that most American elites lack loyalty to the USA and fellow Americans and only care about their profit margins.

Modern American values are bad and the less a nation copies them, the better. The whole idea of the WTO is bad. I agree that letting China in was not helpful; however, I think that the USA should pull out of the WTO.
 

MartyMcFly

Ostrich
Other Christian
I like that DeSantis is speaking out about this. Considering we know the vaccines are not effective in preventing people from getting the virus, it is crazy to require them for anybody. Even if vaccines were effective, I would be against any vaccine mandates. It saddens me that any American would support these mandates considering that the USA is supposed to be a bastion of freedom.

 

MartyMcFly

Ostrich
Other Christian

I like that he knows it is a game the left plays. However, there should be no anti-Semitic bills. All people need to be treated equally. I am against hate crime bills as well. Murder, vandalism, and assault are already against the law. I should get the same punishment if I stab you because I dislike your religion/race or if I stab you because I dislike your sports team t-shirt. If I the windows of a synagogue/mosque or a random store, I should get the same punishment.

DeSantis is decent and better than many politicians, but he could be a lot better.

Below: the anti-Semitic bill he discussed.

 

Wutang

Hummingbird
Gold Member

Speaking to supporters in Boca Raton, DeSantis said there is "zero" chance he's going to reverse his position on disallowing the instruction of "transgenderism in kindergarten classrooms."

"When you have companies that have made a fortune off being family friendly and catering to families and young kids, they should understand that parents of young kids do not want this injected into their kid’s kindergarten classroom," he said.
 

MartyMcFly

Ostrich
Other Christian
I wasn’t sure where to put this since it doesn’t involve Desantis but doesn’t need its own thread .

Florida man catches a gator with a trash can and releases it back into the water



High risk, low reward. Luckily he didn't get his arm bit off or people would call him 'dumb Florida man.' If it were a situation where someone was truly in danger and he needed to take the risk, it would be different. I will say he is brave and has a good story to tell people and with proof as well. Few people have done anything this brave (even if it is a bit foolish).

Personally, I think he should shoot it and then have it in soup or BBQ. Alligator has a very weak taste (like frog) but if is good if you use the right spices. In soup, it lacks flavor but it adds protein. However, he likely lives in a place where shooting it (at least with a gun-unsure about a bow) would mean a huge fine so better to call animal control.
 
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