The Russian-Ukrainian War of 2022 (News and battle updates)

911

Peacock
Catholic
Gold Member
Again proving an old adage that you can't just give someone good weaponry and expect them to win based on the innate capability of those weapons alone.

Its like giving Iraqis an M1 Abrams - they run a single tank down a tight urban canyon of 4-5 story buildings, manage to perch it up on a smashed Renault truck and a concrete fountain, watch it get dogged by a group of teenagers throwing makeshift IEDs down from open windows, then complain about its 'inferiority.'

Reminds me of Korea and Viet Nam where its very obvious who were the pilots flying MiGs that achieved high kill ratios in A2A combat; it wasn't the natives.

I believe the VCs managed to have several kills on their own in the 1970s, because they had equally good equipment (Mig21s vs F4s), had several years of training in the USSR, had built up lots of experience flying, and had superior tactics that well adapted to the USAF mission profiles and the capabilities of their Migs. They would "boom and zoom" loaded F4s and F105s on bombing missions. That was partly due to poor tactics from the USAF, who dismissed dogfighting as outdated, and whose Phantoms didn't even have cannons early on*. The VCs were good at exploiting this tactical shortfall, until the USAF pivoted to US Navy old school dogfighting tactics.

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*Interestingly enough, the F35 newer B and C variants don't have cannons either, then again they might be safer without :laugh: ....

 
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SensibleUlan

Pigeon
Trad Catholic
I believe the VCs managed to have several kills on their own in the 1970s, because they had equally good equipment (Mig21s vs F4s), had built up lots of experience flying, and had superior tactics that well adapted to the USAF mission profiles and the capabilities of their Migs. They would "boom and zoom" loaded F4s and F105s on bombing missions. That was partly due to poor tactics from the USAF, who dismissed dogfighting as outdated, and whose Phantoms didn't even have cannons early on*. The VCs were good at exploiting this tactical shortfall, until the USAF pivoted to US Navy old school dogfighting tactics.

51joGCNvrdL._SX384_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg


91ihMmqpbCL.jpg


91gDYvC-jcL.jpg



*Interestingly enough, the F35 newer B and C variants don't have cannons either, then again they might be safer without :laugh: ....

LOL.
Be wary of those claims, I just looked up several of those NVA pilot Aces (Native) on wiki. and most (but by no means all) of their 'kills' were either USAF / USN drones or unconfirmed. So they list them as having 5 - 9 kills when only a handful if that were real pilots in warplanes (if indeed confirmed or not) that they shot down.

Now look at the US Airforce / Navy pilots and guess how many were drones they shot down? NONE, all Mig 21s etc.
 
Popasna bulge - map 08.06.2022
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"The situation near Popasna as of 22:00 /Moscow time/ June 8, 2022
▪️ Fierce battles for the control of the Bakhmut/Artemovsk - Lisichansk highway continue on the line of Yakovlivka - Bilhorivka - Berestove - Mykolaivka.
▪️ Assault detachments of "PMC Wagner" continue their offensive towards Bakhmut and are fighting on the outskirts of Pokrovske.
▪️ In Bakhmut, Russian aviation launched air strikes on places of concentration, where the personnel of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were stationed, as well as on objects in Paraskoviivka north of the city.
▪️ Ukrainian servicemen are preparing a reserve line of defense behind the Bakhmut-Seversk road, in case of a breakthrough by the Russian Armed Forces. Anti-tank units of the 14th separate mechanized brigade, equipped with Western-made anti-tank systems, are deployed in Markovo and Bondarny.
▪️ Units of the National Militia of the DPR continue to fight for Novoluhanske. Servicemen of the Armed Forces of Ukraine are holding the village itself and the territory of the Uglegorsk Thermal Power Plant.
▪️The mines in the northern part of Toshkivka were completely cleared from the forces of the Armed Forces of Ukraine by units of the National Militia of the LPR."
 

911

Peacock
Catholic
Gold Member
LOL.
Be wary of those claims, I just looked up several of those NVA pilot Aces (Native) on wiki. and most (but by no means all) of their 'kills' were either USAF / USN drones or unconfirmed. So they list them as having 5 - 9 kills when only a handful if that were real pilots in warplanes (if indeed confirmed or not) that they shot down.

Now look at the US Airforce / Navy pilots and guess how many were drones they shot down? NONE, all Mig 21s etc.

Sure there is a fudge factor, but it's quite reasonable to believe that there is a kernel of truth to their claims, even American military historians acknowledge this. The top VC pilots, with several years of training in the USSR, lots of flying experience and evenly matched hardware were perfectly capable of multiple victories.

A good read on "the ghost of Hanoi" aka Colonel Tomb:

 

dicknixon72

Pelican
Sure there is a fudge factor, but it's quite reasonable to believe that there is a kernel of truth to their claims, even American military historians acknowledge this. The top VC pilots, with several years of training in the USSR, lots of flying experience and evenly matched hardware were perfectly capable of multiple victories.

A good read on "the ghost of Hanoi" aka Colonel Tomb:



Not to keep diverging too much, I've also heard rumors that Col Tomb was just a Soviet VVF pilot, which does have credibility to it.

Also, the stupidity in USAF tactics dictated early on by the 'hand-holding' of LBJ and MacNamara involved flying simple, stupid racetrack patterns and conducting bombing runs at intervals so precise - another 'whiz kid' DoD concoction - that VC/NVA AAA simply had to time the pace and unleash SAMs and flak.

Same reason why that F-117 was downed rather easily and to everyone's bewilderment - a combination of SAM technology using frequencies so outmoded it wasn't considered and similar predictable attack runs.

The whole no-guns thing gave birth to the Top Gun schools after the war. Also, it brings into the focus the current pursuit of 'divest to invest' where we put off maintenance and development of proven weaponry in pursuit of heady, bleeding edge technology that even if it does work may never be used to full strength and effectiveness. Both the US and Russia are guilty of this as of late - pursuing futuristic technology at the expense of maintaining/updating useful contemporary hardware.

Have we even seen the SU-57 engage in any meaningful peer-to-peer combat? The F-22? SU-27/30/35 derivations keep doing the heavy lifting as do our F-15 and F/A-18 variants. B-52 lives on as a bomb truck that can loiter for hours and hours popping off JDAMs on call. Similarly-'outdated' TU-22s are just fast cruise missile carriers. And we've accelerated the aging of our B-1 fleet by using it in that same capacity - a high-orbiting ground attack plane that swoops in on-demand to splatter a target and dash up right after. Its almost like we had a plane that did that at a much cheaper operating cost (F-111)...

Funny how we both spend billions into bankruptcy developing systems for engagement against one another that never get used for it. Meanwhile, our antiques do the dirty work.

But I digress...
 

911

Peacock
Catholic
Gold Member
The Su57 is still under development, it doesn't strike me as a white elephant type of program. It took France 35 years to put together its Rafale program, they're still putting the finishing touches, not that easy to develop a top of the line fighter program when your total military budget is around $50 billion. Part of the reason Russia isn't heavily relying on its (admittingly tiny) Su57 fleet is that they might not want to lose a specimen well behind enemy lines for NATO to examine, or perhaps they might not want to reveal the plane's electronic warfare package and capabilities before the real war against NATO begins, conflict that might be looming ahead later this decade when that plane's numbers will be more significant.
 

911

Peacock
Catholic
Gold Member
It's the beginning of the end of the Donbass campaign, the Slovyansk-Kramatorsk line being the last line from the layered fortified defensive lines that the Ukies have built up over 8 years of war, it's pretty much Ukraine's Maginot Line. They have already started building up defensive lines around Dnipro in anticipation of the collapse of the Donbass front and an ensuing quick advance of Russian forces to the Dniepr valley.
 

Papist

Kingfisher
Trad Catholic
This is a propaganda piece from The Guardian:


His grandmother told the BBC that he had joined the army “because he made Ukraine his adopted home”.

He had been planning a future outside the military, but “like all Ukrainians, his life was turned upside down by Putin’s barbarous invasion” and he wished to defend “Ukraine’s right to self-determination”, the family said.
 
Map - Severodonetsk 10.06.2022

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"The battle for Severodonetsk: the situation as of 12:00 /Moscow time/ June 10, 2022
▪️ On the eve the Russian Armed Forces occupied the Borovskoe airport and cut Frunze Street, the main supply route for the AFU grouping holding the defense in Borovskoe.
▪️ Now the allied forces are clearing the summer cottages and forests behind the airport.
▪️ The units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine defending Borovskoe still have the opportunity to retreat to the western bank of the Seversky Donets across the Leninsky Bridge. It can be reached relatively safely by country roads behind Lake Kleshnya.
▪️ The combined forces of 81st Airmobile Brigade and foreign mercenaries are retreating from forward positions.
▪️ The resistance of the Armed Forces of Ukraine is becoming focal. Part of the forces still continues to hold the industrial zone around the Azot plant."
 
Map - Slavyansk 10.06.2022
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"Battle for Slavyansk: situation as of 16:00 /Moscow time/ June 10, 2022
▪️ After the defeat of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in Svyatogorsk and the capture of the height of Pryshyb, the group of troops of the Central Military District of the RF Armed Forces began to expand the bridgehead on the western bank of the Seversky Donets.
▪️ At the moment, Russian units are advancing on Sydorove.
▪️ From the side of Izyum, units of the 20th and 35th armies of the RF Armed Forces are advancing, which are fighting in the settlements of Bohorodychne and Krasnopillya.
▪️ Taking the surrounding forests will allow us to level the front line. At this stage, leveling the line of contact and destroying enemy DRGs that have settled in the forest belt seems to be a priority, because before that it will not be possible to start a full-fledged assault on Slavyansk by roads.
▪️ All this is well understood in the command of the Armed Forces of Ukraine: Slavyansk is being prepared for defense. The issue of an emergency supply of weapons and ammunition is being worked out, volunteers are being recruited and civilians are being forced to mobilize."
 
Map - Nikolaev-Kherson 10.06.2022
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"The situation in the Nikolaev-Kherson direction as of 11:00 /Moscow time/ June 10, 2022
▪️ On the eve an attempt was made by the Armed Forces of Ukraine, to attack between Snihurivka and Davydiv Brid - the Ingulets river was tried in several places by units of the 63rd brigade of the reserve corps. At the same time, there was an attempt to land a tactical landing - four Mi-8 helicopters took part in the raid, supported by two cover helicopters and tactical aviation.
▪️ The reconnaissance of the targets was carried out by the Bayraktar and Leleka UAVs - for several days now the Armed Forces of Ukraine have been reconnoitering the situation on the section of the Davydiv Brid - Novaya Kakhovka road.
▪️ The Armed Forces of Ukraine failed to cross the Ingulets and cross to the other side - the RF Armed Forces fired from the TOS MLRS on the attacking units, and the helicopter landing turned around halfway.
▪️ The RF Armed Forces continue to hold a foothold on the northern bank of the Ingulets river in the Velikoye Artakovo-Belaya Krinitsa sector. The Ukrainian Armed Forces mine the approaches and dig in five kilometers to the north at the Kalinovka-Kavkaz line.
At the same time, along the entire line of contact, the Armed Forces of Ukraine are trying to mislead the RF Armed Forces and imitate attacks using smoke screens.
▪️ Russian troops are building up forces in the Olexandrivka-Posad-Pokrovskoye section, preparing for an offensive on Lupareve. Despite reports from the field about the activation of the RF Armed Forces, the offensive has not yet begun - only artillery preparation is underway.
▪️ Therefore, the Armed Forces of Ukraine urgently transferred reserves to Mirnoye, Shevchenkove, Novohryhorivka and Halytsynove. Up to 300 troops arrived with 60 pieces of equipment. How combat-ready are they is a big question.
▪️The Kinburn Spit was completely cleared from the DRGs of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the operation was carried out after the boat group of the Ukrainian Navy in the Dnieper estuary was disabled. The technical condition of the Ukrainian landing craft "Yury Olefirenko" is unknown, it was hit on June 4th, and, apparently, the ship was disabled. Otherwise, the cleansing of the Kinburn Spit would have been impossible.
A full-fledged cleansing of the Kinburn Spit makes it possible to transfer cannon and rocket artillery guns to Vasilyevka and Pokrovka for targeted work on Ochakiv
▪️ The section Ochakiv - Pervomaysky Island - Kinburn Spit is still partially blocked and mined by old Ukrainian barges."
 
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It's the beginning of the end of the Donbass campaign, the Slovyansk-Kramatorsk line being the last line from the layered fortified defensive lines that the Ukies have built up over 8 years of war, it's pretty much Ukraine's Maginot Line.

"According to the statement of the Deputy Minister of Information of the DPR Artem Olkhin, the estimated strength of the group defending the Slavyansk-Kramatorsk agglomeration is up to 70,000 soldiers and officers."
 

OrthoSerb

Robin
Orthodox
The estimate the Ukranians themselves are now volunteering for daily deaths is 100-200 troops a day. They haven't given a figure for wounded from what I can see.


Half a month ago, Zelensky gave an estimate of 50-100 troops deaths and 500 wounded a day.


Whatever the exact numbers these are horrifying losses, they're just throwing healthy men in front of overwhelming artillery.

Meanwhile the British Defence Minister in Kiev has declared this is a winning strategy and the Russians are on the verge of collapse?!

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