The RVF community should become a polygynous tribe

[Mercenary]

Sounds like a great way to fracture and destroy this community. Polygyny is inherently unstable and leaves most men stuck with nothing, providing them with very strong motivation to either:

A) fight the luckier members of society
B) spread out and start their own society
C) give up and turn into sexually frustrated omegas

If you've ever been wondering how it's possible for certain Islamic societies to simultaneously be both so aggressive and so limp and lifeless, polygyny is your answer. It combines a pervasive life-draining force and incompetence with violence and a constant need for expansion. At least matriarchal societies like Mosuo are quietly degenerate instead of requiring world conquest just to continue existing.

I appreciate food-for-thought discussions but really Raymond, this is just a horrible idea.

I must say I agree.
While the concept is interesting in principle and there are solid arguments in favour of it, the problem is that polygyny produces much more jealousy and far less cooperation among men.
If you look at societies both historically and at present day, those that are polygynous are usually worse off than those that are monogamous. I'm thinking now about both Muslim and African societies.

Monagamy didn't arise out of nowhere. After many civil wars, and much trial and error it probably was decided among men in Europe and Far East Asia thousands of years ago, that monagamy produced the most stable and prosperous societies.

This is why maintaining mistresses is (and was) generally tolerated but must always remain "officially" secret.

 

[Liberty Sea]

What of East Asian countries like Japan and China where polygyny were legal before Western influence kicked in? China used to be an unrivaled power with great wealth, military an culture, like in the Tang Dynasty.
Not arguing for polygyny, just taking more data into consideration.

 

[cascadecombo]

You seem to be ignoring the fact that they were both essentially warring states for the most part.

 

[Hades]

The RVF turning into a polygynous tribe isn't a terrible idea, but I could see a lot of thirsty dudes trying to get in seeing it (correctly) as a font of basically free top shelf pussy. They'd just have to drop the right memes and buzzwords to get in. We'd have to have some kind of pretty extreme hazing ritual to ensure the guys getting into the tribe are of the right caliber.

 

[MMX2010]

Polygyny is associated with tropical environments where resources are plentiful. And in these environments, men hardly do any work, while women do all the work.

Consequently, polygyny is NOT compatible with the self-improvement, civilization-protecting message that RVF is most proud to hold and promote.

 

[Herr Lucifer]

Are you looking for a male version of a "safe space" and easy access to pussy?

 

[LeeEnfield303]

Only someone without daughters could propose this.

 

[Saweeep]

This idea and all associated "daughter threads" are ridiculous.

It's this nonsense that gives those who oppose this forum the ammunition they crave.

 

[Liberty Sea]

You seem to be ignoring the fact that they were both essentially warring states for the most part.

If you are talking about China and Japan, I'd like to contest that.

Please list and make a sum of the periods in which those two countries can be considered warring states, and compare them to the length of their overall history, to demonstrate your statement.

After the unification of China by Quin Shi Huang and its subsequent consolidation by the establishment of the Han Dynasty, the kingdom is mostly peaceful, with occasional periods of chaos (like the Three Kingdoms period, or the Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms period, etc.). The Tang Dynasty is the most peaceful and prosperous period in China history.

Similarly, after Tokugawa unified Japan, the country was mostly peaceful. Before the Warring States period, like in the Heian period and back, Japan was also mostly peaceful.

 

[The Man w/ the Golden Gun]

"The RVF community should become a polygynous tribe"

Where is this going exactly?

Not everyone from RVF buys in (I'm not interested in this polygyny deal either). Sure, we share relatively similar values (Roosh and Quintus attempt to sum it up with neomasculinity), but we're decentralized and have different interests (#NotAllRVF #specialsnowflakes :biggrin. Decentralized seems to be the current modus operandi. Remember how many meetups were planned in different cities back in February 2016? Do you see the tribal meeting set ups at http://tribalmeeting.co/? Talking to people off the forum gives you inside jokes and memes. We're a bunch of tribes, not taking orders from a central command, and just doing our own thing.

One can only remember so many people (the magic number is 150, and people like to cite anthropologist Robin Dunbar's work on the relationship between brain capacity and social networks) so well. How big is this community you're considering?

Check out the number of soldiers in a fighting group (fireteams, squad, platoons, etc). I've read that soldiers will fight for their battle buddies in their company (80-150 men), but beyond that number, that sentiment weakens. Hanging out with veterans who gushed about the men in their company and still wore their company patches to this day reinforced that point.

Before you decide to go all Genghis Khan and unify the Mongol tribes under one banner, consider that decentralized as a modus operandi isn't a bad way to go.

 

[262]

This idea and all associated "daughter threads" are ridiculous.

It's this nonsense that gives those who oppose this forum the ammunition they crave.

Looking at this thread and the master one, https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-56391.html , I noticed two rough groups:

1) Those taking it as a joke - these guys usually have spent some time in the Game section.
2) Those taking it seriously - these guys are usually absent from the Game section.

As I posted in the master thread, and has been said elsewhere, some guys will do anything to avoid cold approaching.

 

[hydrogonian]

This idea and all associated "daughter threads" are ridiculous.

It's this nonsense that gives those who oppose this forum the ammunition they crave.

Looking at this thread and the master one, https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-56391.html , I noticed two rough groups:

1) Those taking it as a joke - these guys usually have spent some time in the Game section.
2) Those taking it seriously - these guys are usually absent from the Game section.

As I posted in the master thread, and has been said elsewhere, some guys will do anything to avoid cold approaching.

I'm a little confused: which guys will do anything to avoid cold approaching? Guys in the game forum? Guys who want to marry relatives of forum members?

I think it's safe to say that this topic is talked out.

 

[Liberty Sea]

Somehow I missed this post

Polygyny is associated with tropical environments where resources are plentiful. And in these environments, men hardly do any work, while women do all the work.

Consequently, polygyny is NOT compatible with the self-improvement, civilization-protecting message that RVF is most proud to hold and promote.

With all due respect, this is just false, unless you were being sarcastic. There is no evidence that supports such views. Assuming that this is not sarcasm, it is armchair theorizing at its worst. There is no patriarchal society in which women do all or most of the work. Men holds power because they do most of the (hard) work. And living in tropical environment doesn't guarantee food security. Life was as tough for many of them as for people elsewhere, if not tougher.

Men from tropical environment, typically patriarchal societies like South East Asia worked very hard in the past and in the present. Much harder than women, and even those women probably also worked harder than Western women. Do you really think that those dudes from patriarchal Japan and China hardly did any work back then?

Your statements can amount to saying that men in tropical area are not masculine, self-reliant and hard-working. As a matter fact (and not of feeling), that's not true. I don't think you meant to say that, and I certainly hope not, but that's what your statements entail. Please think more carefully before you make such statements next time.

I have to agree that Asian women are strong, tough and hard-working though, especially Vietnamese women.

Back to the topic, I'm not arguing that polygyny is superior to monogamy. Just gently reminding that we gotta be more careful in dismissing polygyny (that doesn't have to have anything to do with RVF becoming a polygynous tribe). I myself am wondering why polygyny seems to create such trouble in the current Middle East whereas it seemed to work fine for pre-modern East Asians. It seems to me that polygyny itself is not the main problem. Maybe that's just my bias though, because in where I'm from (Vietnam), polygyny used to be common sense and it still leaves many trace in our language, in such a way the idea never sounds so outrageous to our ears as it is to Western ears.

 

[marty]

So Kona has two sisters now?

 

[Atheistani]

Polygny is pretty normal in most societies and the (Christian) West seems to be something of an exception.

However, the idea that most men in those societies have more than one wife is clearly erroneous. More likely, it is just a few with more than one. That is still good though, as it makes the competition for wives that bit greater and means more women can get married.

A lack of women wanting to get married is clearly a big Western problem, and when they do couples seem to have issues maintaining a happy [\b] marriage. Polygyny would probably solve this problem as, from what I have seen, people are likely to be happier in polygynious marriages, esp women.

 

[Jean Valjean]

Only someone without daughters could propose this.

I disagree. I think I might find a higher-quality husband for my daughter by expanding the pool of potential husbands to include those who are looking for a polygynous relationship. Because I hold these kinds of unorthodox views, I lost custody of the only daughter I currently have (see other thread), but I hope to have others in the future.

 

[Vanthassel]

This idea and all associated "daughter threads" are ridiculous.

It's this nonsense that gives those who oppose this forum the ammunition they crave.

Looking at this thread and the master one, https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-56391.html , I noticed two rough groups:

1) Those taking it as a joke - these guys usually have spent some time in the Game section.
2) Those taking it seriously - these guys are usually absent from the Game section.

As I posted in the master thread, and has been said elsewhere, some guys will do anything to avoid cold approaching.

Wow. And if you're trying to get with a marriage-worthy girl, you would have to spend, what, 5 years perfecting your game and shoot an average of 10,000 cold approaches to make that happen?

Maybe some guys would rather do other things with their lives? Maybe they'd prefer a more traditional (and more efficient) route to the goal?

[Father of two daughters speaking here]

 

[Gmac]

If any of your daughters are attractive enough and encompass Trump values, I'll meet and maybe marry her.

 

[Jean Valjean]

Looking at this thread and the master one, https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-56391.html , I noticed two rough groups:

1) Those taking it as a joke - these guys usually have spent some time in the Game section.
2) Those taking it seriously - these guys are usually absent from the Game section.

As I posted in the master thread, and has been said elsewhere, some guys will do anything to avoid cold approaching.

For those who are interested in a polygynous relationship, cold approaching random women is probably not going to be the most efficient way to find chicks who will be open to it. It would be better to look within a community of men who accept polygyny and will support their daughters' entering into a polygynous relationship.

Also, polygynous cultures tend to support women's getting married at a young age. Maybe it's because, like polygyny, marrying off girls at a young age is a traditional practice geared toward maximizing reproductive potential; or maybe it's because polygynous families tend to have a lot of mouths to feed, and need to get rid of the surplus girls whose numbers exceed what is needed to care of the family's cooking, cleaning, childcare, etc. needs. Either way, there's going to be a very limited amount of time between when these girls hit puberty and when they're taken off the market, so if you already have a connection to the family, you're in an advantageous position to be the one ready to grab those fresh-baked cookies out of the oven right when the bell rings "done".

Traditional polygynous cultures also tend to shelter their unmarried girls, requiring them be accompanied in public places with a family member who can cockblock anyone trying a cold approach. They want to ensure that people courting their daughters share the same beliefs as the rest of the tribe, so that their children will be raised in those beliefs. So they restrict their daughter to dating people in their tribe, whom they already know. Personally, I would want my daughter to marry someone with some Red Pill awareness so that he can share those ideas with his sons and daughters, rather than leaving them to be influenced into buying into destructive feminist-influenced ideas by default. I don't want my grandsons to become beta cucks and my granddaughters to become neurotic 30-something spinsters or divorcees.

Most ideas for radical change sound ridiculous at first. When the new idea meets with opposition instead of laughter, then we know that it's progressed to the next phase, eventually perhaps leading to acceptance.

 

[Phoenix]

Most ideas for radical change sound ridiculous at first. When the new idea meets with opposition instead of laughter, then we know that it's progressed to the next phase, eventually perhaps leading to acceptance.

Sometimes ridiculous ideas are also just ridiculous.

For instance: if I say "we should eat socks", that's not progressive, that's not going to be 'accepted'. That's just dumb.

Polygyny creates blood thirst. Simple as that. The global birth ratio is 107 men for 100 women. So there's already 7 men going without a wife. Now you add on polygyny. To illustrate: now the top 25 men are getting the 100 women. So you've got 82 men who aren't going to reproduce by decision of the women. What is there best chance to reproduce? It's to rape as many of the wives as possible, and murder as many of the upper class males as possible. The upper class males know this -- so they send them off into bloody, rapey wars with neighbors, so they kill and rape the neighbors instead.

This is part of the reason mistresses are frowned upon and kept hush hush. There must at the very least be the illusion of one man one woman marriages as the norm, to keep the peace.