The Sin Thread

gework

Ostrich
Gold Member
A thread for the general discussion of the cardinal sins.

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I am looking for insights and opinions on something I have been thinking about, after discussion with someone.

Some time ago I listened to a video which gave a good insight into one aspect of sin that I don't think I've heard before. It was a critique of overcompensation for sins. From this, it appears to me that we have the sins, e.g. lust and anger. Allowing these to grow in us leads to issues, which I won't go into. I am more interested in what happens when we combat them inappropriately.

As mentioned elsewhere I feel the opposite of the sins are states of peace. For lust, you have chastity. Being in a state of lust can never be fulfilled and if not fulfilled leads to anxiety and disease. However, some people use methods to simply obfuscate the sin, which I believe in its self is a sin; and by doing this you loose control of the sin and it can be contorted by other forces. As an example Opus Dei with their cilice (a device worn on the leg to induce pain as a penance for lust). In such a case the passive sin of lust is not dealt with; this causes anxiety/disease that induces the individual to commit the active sin of self harm.

It seems it is better to be patient with yourself in your journey to remove sin from your self. Patience itself is the opposing virtue of wrath.

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Biblical question:

Why are people addicted to the sins of wrath, envy and sloth? Sins that will lead to active harm to self and others. While the appeal of lust, pride, gluttony and greed is more obvious in that they add to your temporal estate. While the former detract from you.
 
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DanielH

Woodpecker
If you read “The Ladder” by Saint John Climacus he goes into this very topic. I'm reading an abridged version for laity (since the original was written for a monastic audience), but basically God made us with our passions. All of these passions can be used for good, except sloth. Instead of using them how God intended, we, in our fallen state, use it for evil. For example, anger is ideally righteous indignation towards evil.

There is a fine line in inspecting ourselves in our spiritual journey. That's why we need spiritual elders, ideally a priest, Godparent, pastor, etc.
 

DanielH

Woodpecker
Thanks. I'll pick it up.

What is the good use for greed? Or is it more that there is utility in acquiring things?
It states the positive use of greed or the desire of money would be doing everything you can to make sure your children have the material necessities in life, food, nutrition, a Christian education. To take care of your family, your community, your church. Again, there is a fine line between providing what is necessary and using your children as excuses for your greed. Two mites was enough for the poor woman to purchase the Kingdom of Heaven, so it's not how much we give quantitatively that matters, but how much we sacrifice (paraphrasing here).

The book I'm reading is titled “Thirty Steps to Heaven - The Ladder of Divine Ascent for All Walks of Life” by Vassilios Papavassiliou. It's more of a commentary than an abridged version I should clarify, but it is a very good and very humbling commentary that hits all the bases.
 

gework

Ostrich
Gold Member
The book I'm reading is titled “Thirty Steps to Heaven - The Ladder of Divine Ascent for All Walks of Life” by Vassilios Papavassiliou. It's more of a commentary than an abridged version I should clarify, but it is a very good and very humbling commentary that hits all the bases.

In your estimation, to what extent would you say the work is biblicaly inspired?

I am the ware the seven sins have an origin in Greek philosophy and am not sure to what extent they are biblicaly inspired.

I came across this work a few weeks ago when I was looking what the name of the artwork Roosh has in the background.

 

DanielH

Woodpecker
In your estimation, to what extent would you say the work is biblicaly inspired?

I am the ware the seven sins have an origin in Greek philosophy and am not sure to what extent they are biblicaly inspired.

I came across this work a few weeks ago when I was looking what the name of the artwork Roosh has in the background.

I'd say it is biblically inspired, and it wouldn't surprise me to find out the 7 deadly sins (the Greeks had 8 and the Latins refined it to 7 by combining some similar ones and adding another) were also inspired by Greek philosophy. Aristotle I know had similar ideas of finding the perfect mean in between extreme passions. For example, be neither a complete pacifist, nor exceedingly belligerent.

There is nothing in what I see that contradicts the Bible, though it does expand on biblical concepts. For example, if you recall the man who came to Christ and said he was following the commandments, and Christ said very well, sell all that you have and follow me, “The Ladder” is written for that person. It shows great targets to aim for but they are very hard for us to achieve in our current state. Of the thirty steps, the author to this commentary, who is actually himself a priest-monk, says he is working on step 2. I'm certainly no higher.
 

Aboulia

Robin
Biblical question:

Why are people addicted to the sins of wrath, envy and sloth? Sins that will lead to active harm to self and others. While the appeal of lust, pride, gluttony and greed is more obvious in that they add to your temporal estate. While the former detract from you.

Why do some people like pineapple on pizza and others despise it? Different sins appeal to different people. All sin leads to active harm of self and others. Sloth is for those who love comfort, ease, or they have no motivation, or lack direction and can't be bothered to figure it out. I've got big problems with sloth in the last category, (hence the username) Whereas a sin such as lust doesn't grab hold of me that easy, for being in control of my own body is highly important to me, and I don't like to feel like my animalistic drives are calling the shots. I probably would have already gone to a monastery to see if I could take monastic life if it weren't for this coronavirus nonsense.

In your estimation, to what extent would you say the work is biblicaly inspired?

I am the ware the seven sins have an origin in Greek philosophy and am not sure to what extent they are biblicaly inspired.

I came across this work a few weeks ago when I was looking what the name of the artwork Roosh has in the background.

The icon is "The Ladder of Divine Ascent." The goal of the monastic is theosis (becoming united to, and like God) and in the icon, what's pictured is monks ascending the heavenly ladder with Christ at the top, and some are pulled off by demons. A demon can sometimes be nothing more than a evil thought. So those being pulled off, caved into evil thoughts which eventually manifested themselves as sin in one form or another.

The work is extremely relevant to applying the teachings in the bible to real life, although I haven't read it yet as my spiritual father advised me to wait.
 

infowarrior1

Hummingbird
Sin is corruption. That results in disordered passions. Lust that is when the desire of union with the opposite sex has been perverted so as to ensure that this desire is accomplished outside lawful means "wedlock".

Or Gluttony when the desire for food becomes excessive beyond what is healthy.

Or Wrath when something that is otherwise to be for the administration of Justice becomes unjust in its manifestation.
 

gework

Ostrich
Gold Member
Why do some people like pineapple on pizza and others despise it? Different sins appeal to different people. All sin leads to active harm of self and others. Sloth is for those who love comfort, ease, or they have no motivation, or lack direction and can't be bothered to figure it out. I've got big problems with sloth in the last category, (hence the username) Whereas a sin such as lust doesn't grab hold of me that easy, for being in control of my own body is highly important to me, and I don't like to feel like my animalistic drives are calling the shots. I probably would have already gone to a monastery to see if I could take monastic life if it weren't for this coronavirus nonsense.

You outline this well.

Though the actual train of my thought was a different question. So I will rephrase, as it wasn't clear.

Why are people addicted to harmful acts that are sinful?

Some examples:

- self-harm (cutting your wrists, for example)
- debasing your body (like a SJW)
- laughing at the decline (4Chan, honk pill)
- reading news that makes you angry
- emphatically looking for and seeing evil that is not present in your enemies
- hate posting, cancel culture

All of these make people feel bad, but many are addicted to them.

It is much more obvious why people are addicted to acts of greed, gluttony, lust and pride, as these provide materialistic upliftment and pleasure.

While acts of wrath, sloth and envy provide you with materialistic anxiety, doubt, debasement etc.

I think part of this is likely the bar to entry for the first category (the sins of pleasure). Greed, gluttony and pride require you compete in the world, to work for the pleasure. While acts of wrath, sloth and envy require you to do things which are very easy - hate, covert another's wife and laze around depressed.

But my point is that there is also some bizarre, therapeutic and perverse pleasure in these sinful acts. I am looking for a handle on that.

Lust has become ambiguous in this stake in that it can now be indulged in the extreme with great ease via the internet. I see gluttony, pride and greed as the right-wing sins (for lack of a better term). These are the sins of of pleasure and hierarchy. While wrath, envy and sloth are more the sins of the left, in that they are directed at those who take pleasure at the world. Their sin is two-fold in that they wish they could have the sins of pleasure, but in lack of them also take on sin against those that do, and themselves.
 

Aboulia

Robin
"Pride" isn't always manifested as you say, for pride is anything where you hold your own ideas/opinions/beliefs over God, or what's actually true. The obstinately proud would rather attack and tear down reality than accept they're in the wrong, (some SJW's and self harmers) for if they're in the wrong, that means they have some work to do, which may either seem too difficult or terrify them, or they have come to see the qualities in question as part of who they are. In the latter case, it's a lack of self examination. A form of sloth.

Those that laugh at the decline are either too dull, or would rather attach a label to things (clown world) rather than do the difficult work of fixing problems. SJW's do the same thing, but from the other political side, all those who don't believe "X" are "Nazis".

I think the "bizarre, therapeutic and perverse pleasure" in those acts derive from the short lived joy of triumph over a perceived enemy. It's a love of the power they perceive they gain. It makes them neurotic, insane, and unhappy in the long term, because their conscience tells them what they're engaging in is false. So yes, it's either an embrace hierarchy or reject the hierarchy and use force to gain things that you otherwise wouldn't get.

@RKS Please don't post Jehovah's Witness material. Non Trinitarians are not Christian. To reject the Holy Trinity, is to reject the possibility of our relationship to God, to reject that we can become Sons of God (like Christ). Which negates the point of Christ coming to earth, and puts back that infinite chasm between God and Man that Christ bridged. The Nicene Creed was in place before the "Bible" was compiled, as a basic framework for defining what should be included comes before the release of a book.
 

Blade Runner

Kingfisher
I think part of this is likely the bar to entry for the first category (the sins of pleasure). Greed, gluttony and pride require you compete in the world, to work for the pleasure. While acts of wrath, sloth and envy require you to do things which are very easy - hate, covert another's wife and laze around depressed.

Yes, it is curious that there are those sins that are for those who can "cut it" as opposed to those who can't. But those demons are crafty, they go after anyone with or without natural talents or graces like those of others. Equal opportunity haters and chaos inducers, so to speak.

Lust has become ambiguous in this stake in that it can now be indulged in the extreme with great ease via the internet. I see gluttony, pride and greed as the right-wing sins (for lack of a better term). These are the sins of of pleasure and hierarchy. While wrath, envy and sloth are more the sins of the left, in that they are directed at those who take pleasure at the world. Their sin is two-fold in that they wish they could have the sins of pleasure, but in lack of them also take on sin against those that do, and themselves.

Yes, this gets at it. I think those of us who have accomplished certain things through hard work/discipline and know that this is the proper route, have a hard time understanding envy. I certainly do. I know it on an intellectual level and it makes sense to me that it would exist, especially since we do see it and the people who undergo or willing put themselves in this state, but I don't know why they are so obsessive with comparing themselves to others, or lacking certain qualities, or being relatively incompetent. Deep down I suppose it is because they don't trust God and thus, are fixated on totally asinine human ideas such as "justice" or "fairness" - ideas that could theoretically be useful but they abuse to make them in their own image and to cause more suffering.
 

jakester318

Sparrow
Why do any of us sin at all is probably the best question we can ask? All other categories of sin are simply manifestations of the different levels of depravity all of us can find ourselves in.

An existential question that we should all try to answer from a biblical perspective is, even though we all know what is good and what is evil, why do we still choose evil deeds at times? The bible would answer that question with the perspective that we are under the bondage of the flesh. Romans 7 says:

"14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[c] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!"

Mankind is in a predicament where he can understand what is good and even agree that a certain way of living is right and Godly and strive to live that way, but he is weak and prone to moral failure. Sometimes can he can walk in harmony with God's way and other times he cannot. When he cannot, it is because he is under bondage sin. But for the believer in Jesus, his hope is that one day God will give him a new body and sanctify him with the Spirit and he will forever walk in harmony with his creator.

It is worth understanding what sin is and what types of sin we should avoid and arrive at various understandings of what evil behavior is. But it's important that we all understand the concept of sin and evil that is present in us.
 
Calvinist Dog Corrects Owner: ‘No One Is A Good Boy’

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I see the addiction to sin as an act of self-preservation. Most if not all people identify with themselves and their emotions, thoughts, actions, habits, occupations, ... and act for their own sake, to preserve their identity, which is an accumulation of emotions, mental fabrications and actions.

All of the sins have but one effect: it benefits ourselves (at first sight) when reasoning from our own selfish perspective. This is the perspective that most if not all people have!

Christ devoted his life to others. He had compassion, good will, was patient, ... and was devoted and energetic towards his cause. He was a man devoted to God, to the benefit of others, he did not care for his own self/ personality, he sacrificed his entire life and being to his Cause. As a natural result he did not kill, steal, lie, intoxicate himself, wasnt angry, greedy, lustfull, etc. A virtuous unselfish life is the natural antidote to a selfish and sinfull life.

Since most people identify with themselves and not with Christ within, nor sincerely devote their life to God, which means to abandon all selfishness and work for the good of others (do unto others what you would want others to do unto you), is it not natural that people are addicted to sin?

But is not Christ within us all? Are we truly our own "selves"? Find the strength within, pray, be as Christ, devote your life to God, live a virtuous unselfish life and be free from sin.

TLDR; people repeatedly commit sin simply because it has become a part of their identity over time, whatever its effects may be on others/ themselves. Since they dont have the capacity to identify with Christ or devote their life to God, the personality holds its sway.
 
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