The Sopranos Discussion/Appreciation Thread

I'm disappointed that people are slow to appreciate the art. If you were there for the original shows finale, you might recall that it was polarizing but 14 years on its heralded as one of the most unique and mysterious television finales ever. I suspect the same will remain true for this movie, especially for those who have watched it more than once (I've already watched it 5 times to see what I missed).


Not calling the audience dumb. I'm sympathetic as to why most would feel the way they do as David Chase is infamous for intentionally frustrating his audience by subverting their expectations and using roundabout symbolism to carry thematic elements. I would encourage the audience to watch it more than once before they come to a hasty conclusion and I would encourage them to do the same with the original show as well. But if the Sopranos is not for them then it's not for them.

There's also more to it than just those examples but good catch.


I think this snark is beneath you. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I was there for the finale, and it was great. You keep making the equivalencies in audience reactions as if it makes the two works the same. It doesn't. By the way, the show was beloved and appreciated when it was on the air. The final scene was frustrating to some people, as were a few of the plotlines when Chase deliberately went over-homo on the Vito stuff in season 6. But the vast vast majority of that show was extremely popular, whereas this movie was not. So your revisionist history is more than a little strange.

I would encourage the audience to save their time and go rewatch the show again.

And yes, you are wrong -- your comments deserved the derision.
 

dicknixon72

Pelican
Best comedy skit ever in that episode. Here is the text: https://www.quotes.net/mquote/927238

Another very funny comment by Paulie Walnuts is when they deliver a TV or sth. else (I can't exactly remember) to that soccer coach, who has sex with his adoptive daughter or sth. like that (I have to rewatch it), and when asked for his name he says "My name is Clarence".

I feel Tony Sirico is less of an actor and more of a bystander who wandered onto the set from time to time, was filmed, and received checks in the mail without really knowing why. He's definitely the most well-written.

From the intervention of Chrissy.
"I don't like to write things down, so I'm gonna say this once. You're weak. You're outta control. And you've become an embarrassment to yourself and everybody else"
 

Batman_

Kingfisher
I recently watched the show for the first time. And not a binge-watch either, about 2-3 episodes per week, plenty of time to digest the episodes - took me months to watch it to completion.

Overall I liked it a lot but it has the same problem with pretty much every other tv show - too many pointless side plots that go nowhere. Honestly the whole show seemed comprised of these from start to finish and it made me wonder what the hell was the point of them all? For instance what was the purpose of the gay character who fled to another city and was the spotlight of several episodes - did that add anything to the main arc of Tony Soprano and his family? No, it didn't.

I saw the same issue with Mad Men and couldn't even get past the 2nd season for the same reason. So many TV shows seem to only exist to lure viewers into later episodes and seasons, and focus way too much on "character development" rather than the main plot development.

I prefer movies over shows for this reason. Everything in them is intentional and deeply meaningful because they have such limited time to convey their message. With TV shows, the writers use endless fluff and distractions to avoid advancing the main story arc and keeping the viewers coming back. I don't think I'll ever watch another drama show again (or any show that has episodes over 20-30m long). The're just too time consuming and pointless. The one exception to this is Breaking Bad, because the writers actually planned everything out in advance, which is almost never done in TV dramas.
 
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Jesu Juva

Pigeon
I'm disappointed that people are slow to appreciate the art. If you were there for the original shows finale, you might recall that it was polarizing but 14 years on its heralded as one of the most unique and mysterious television finales ever. I suspect the same will remain true for this movie, especially for those who have watched it more than once (I've already watched it 5 times to see what I missed).


Not calling the audience dumb. I'm sympathetic as to why most would feel the way they do as David Chase is infamous for intentionally frustrating his audience by subverting their expectations and using roundabout symbolism to carry thematic elements. I would encourage the audience to watch it more than once before they come to a hasty conclusion and I would encourage them to do the same with the original show as well. But if the Sopranos is not for them then it's not for them.

There's also more to it than just those examples but good catch.


I think this snark is beneath you. Correct me if I'm wrong.
I agree with that, but the criticism by that Italian guy (with NYC in the background) that was posted is also accurate in regards to the timeline and the characters and that the Italian mobsters respect that black gang (that is woke politics). In general, I do not think, the project itself was a good idea, because the show is just too legendary to add anything to it. What people wanted was a Sopranos movie with James Gandolfini, but even that would have been unperfect compared to the show. Another mob show by David Chase would be nice outside of the Sopranos universe.
 

Enoch

Hummingbird
For anyone wondering, DO NOT waste your time watching Many Saints.

It's just a series of bad SNL sketches based on a great tv show, with some scenes from Shaft interspersed in.

It's a shame they besmirched a piece of epic Americana with this steaming pile of waste.
Could not agree more. Only bright spot was James Gandolfini's (RIP) son playing young Tony. Emotionally complicated role for the young man who performed extremely well.
 

GodfatherPartTwo

Woodpecker
I agree with that, but the criticism by that Italian guy (with NYC in the background) that was posted is also accurate in regards to the timeline and the characters and that the Italian mobsters respect that black gang (that is woke politics). In general, I do not think, the project itself was a good idea, because the show is just too legendary to add anything to it. What people wanted was a Sopranos movie with James Gandolfini, but even that would have been unperfect compared to the show. Another mob show by David Chase would be nice outside of the Sopranos universe.
I think the project is fine and will be viewed differently with time. Whenever an audiences expectations are subverted there is expected to be an initial backlash but over time there would be an appreciative audience. As far as accuracy, story comes first and accuracy comes second, reminds me of the superhero people complaining that the movie wasn't accurate to their comic books.

I agree that the movie was unnecessary which is why I'm glad we got it anyway. I have to laugh at people who think it dents the show in anyway. I'll rewatch the show soon and see how the movie recontextualizes the show.

Next time there'll be no next time.
 

Jesu Juva

Pigeon
I think the project is fine and will be viewed differently with time. Whenever an audiences expectations are subverted there is expected to be an initial backlash but over time there would be an appreciative audience. As far as accuracy, story comes first and accuracy comes second, reminds me of the superhero people complaining that the movie wasn't accurate to their comic books.

I agree that the movie was unnecessary which is why I'm glad we got it anyway. I have to laugh at people who think it dents the show in anyway. I'll rewatch the show soon and see how the movie recontextualizes the show.

Next time there'll be no next time.
Such drama shows/movies need to be realistic when it comes to socio-cultural matters and the rules of that fiction's universe. That realism gives the story its authenticity.
At a certain point, prequels and sequels can ruin the entire universe. Star Wars is a good example. A single Soprano movie is not that bad, but if they make several movies or mini series that are not good, it hurts the original, because that bad stuff is in your head if you want it or not and it influences your thoughts about the matter. That is why they ruin Star Wars and Marvel characters, they want to destroy these nice things.
 

dicknixon72

Pelican
So, what some of you are saying is that the original episodes were like a women's john - you could eat maple walnut ice cream out of the toilets. Sure, there are exceptions, but the new movie is like a men's - piss all over the floor, urinals jammed with cigarettes and moth ball cakes...
 

GodfatherPartTwo

Woodpecker
So, what some of you are saying is that the original episodes were like a women's john - you could eat maple walnut ice cream out of the toilets. Sure, there are exceptions, but the new movie is like a men's - piss all over the floor, urinals jammed with cigarettes and moth ball cakes...
The Sopranos? I've seen that show at least 200 times. The movie? A lot of people didn't like it but I just thought it was misunderstood.
 

Chetthebaker

Woodpecker
I recently watched the show for the first time. And not a binge-watch either, about 2-3 episodes per week, plenty of time to digest the episodes - took me months to watch it to completion.

Overall I liked it a lot but it has the same problem with pretty much every other tv show - too many pointless side plots that go nowhere. Honestly the whole show seemed comprised of these from start to finish and it made me wonder what the hell was the point of them all? For instance what was the purpose of the gay character who fled to another city and was the spotlight of several episodes - did that add anything to the main arc of Tony Soprano and his family? No, it didn't.

I saw the same issue with Mad Men and couldn't even get past the 2nd season for the same reason. So many TV shows seem to only exist to lure viewers into later episodes and seasons, and focus way too much on "character development" rather than the main plot development.

I prefer movies over shows for this reason. Everything in them is intentional and deeply meaningful because they have such limited time to convey their message. With TV shows, the writers use endless fluff and distractions to avoid advancing the main story arc and keeping the viewers coming back. I don't think I'll ever watch another drama show again (or any show that has episodes over 20-30m long). The're just too time consuming and pointless. The one exception to this is Breaking Bad, because the writers actually planned everything out in advance, which is almost never done in TV dramas.
If I had to say, the point of the Vito Spatafore (gay mobster) sub plot had to do with Tony and his therapy - which was the initial hook of this whole show. A mobster who goes to a shrink. And we are told many times over what would happen if it really got out that the boss of a family was spilling to a psychiatrist. And eventually the rumor floats around, but it never catches up with Tony enough to hurt him badly. The parallel is subtle, but I’m sure it was intended by Chase in just this way.

Tony and all the other mob guys are outsiders, and the smarter ones who rise to the top are even more so because of their intelligence. It’s a struggle.

With the Vito sub plot, we see another guy struggling with his secret outsider status within this world. But for his thing, the consequences are far more dire. And he’s not quite as high on the totem pole.

In a way, it’s showing us a different situation that could be quite similar to Tony’s. If you remember, Tony (and maybe also Silvio) are somewhat sympathetic to Vito. Their take was something to the effect of “he’s a good earner” with the construction stuff. And he was rising quickly. I think Tony tells Melfi his feeling about it is “live and let live.” But he can’t do anything. It’s a done deal.

Whereas Pauli- a much simpler dude without the brains or cunning to rise and earn in the same way- is all about the hard line. No forgiveness.

Aside: Remember when the Sopranos started and then Analyze This came out basically within a year?
 

Kiwi

Robin
I've watched sopranos complete twice but haven't seen latest film yet, but i'm looking forward to it. I remember watching sopranos on TV for first time with my room mates and being completely hooked. I know this is not really the point of the thread, but I would rank it 2nd as best show i've seen. And even the first place show borrows from David Chase.
Most people have to understand, The Sopranos was revolutionary. The call back scenes, the characters, the authenticity, the story telling whilst not being forced or rushed.....nothing came close.

As for the ending? Well, I remember myself and my room mate specifically waiting all week and setting aside the night to watch it. Yes it was like a ritual, i'll admit that. The night comes. It's perfect, raining outside, dark and stormy night. We are ready. Half and hour in, my other room mate, a female not interested in such things calls us and says her car is broken down in the middle of nowhere. Yes we can come help but of all the nights!

Needless to say, we missed it. I had to watch the finale again without the build up. I remember yelling at the T.V. "Noooooooooooo!".... like I guess many did. That ending sucked. Human beings want resolution, no matter what they say. But as time passed I appreciate how ballsy it was to end it like that, so I have no hard feelings.

How can you have anything but respect?
 

JohnQThomas

Woodpecker
I've watched sopranos complete twice but haven't seen latest film yet, but i'm looking forward to it. I remember watching sopranos on TV for first time with my room mates and being completely hooked. I know this is not really the point of the thread, but I would rank it 2nd as best show i've seen. And even the first place show borrows from David Chase.
Most people have to understand, The Sopranos was revolutionary. The call back scenes, the characters, the authenticity, the story telling whilst not being forced or rushed.....nothing came close.

As for the ending? Well, I remember myself and my room mate specifically waiting all week and setting aside the night to watch it. Yes it was like a ritual, i'll admit that. The night comes. It's perfect, raining outside, dark and stormy night. We are ready. Half and hour in, my other room mate, a female not interested in such things calls us and says her car is broken down in the middle of nowhere. Yes we can come help but of all the nights!

Needless to say, we missed it. I had to watch the finale again without the build up. I remember yelling at the T.V. "Noooooooooooo!".... like I guess many did. That ending sucked. Human beings want resolution, no matter what they say. But as time passed I appreciate how ballsy it was to end it like that, so I have no hard feelings.

How can you have anything but respect?
There was an implied resolution.
It just wasn’t explicit—which was for the best. Had it been graphic, we would have laughed at the gore and nitpicked about how realistic the details were.
But instead, we understand at a gut level that it wouldn’t have been right for Tony’s story arc to end any other way.
 

Jesu Juva

Pigeon
There was an implied resolution.
It just wasn’t explicit—which was for the best. Had it been graphic, we would have laughed at the gore and nitpicked about how realistic the details were.
But instead, we understand at a gut level that it wouldn’t have been right for Tony’s story arc to end any other way.
He was not killed. The clue is that people should believe that. I really hoped for a movie showing him in witness protection.
 
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