The Sopranos Discussion/Appreciation Thread

Lucky

Pelican
Gold Member
Has anyone ever heard the theory of the final 9 episodes evoking Dante's 9 circles of hell?

There is so much symbolism in the sopranos I would not be the least bit surprised if it was somehow true.

I found this while searching online (MAJOR SPOILERS):

Episode 1 - Soprano Home Movies - Dante's 1st level of hell is purgatory, or limbo. no punishment meted out here. people are peaceful, yet sad. that episode involved no deaths (aside from a bit character in the laundromat), but an idyllic (and some say slow-paced) episode by a lake in upstate NY.

Episode 2 - Stage 5 - the premiere of Cleaver. Level 2 of Dante's hell is where the "lustful" spend eternity, those who betrayed reason at the behest of their appetites for pleasure. this episode sealed Christopher's fate, when Tony embraced him at the baptism, and told Melfi about how Chrissy hated him. you knew then that Christopher was not going to survive.

Episode 3 - Remember When - This episode saw the fractured relationship between Tony and Paulie, and almost saw Tony kill Paulie on the boat in Florida. It also showed the end for Junior. Level 3 of Dante's hell is for the gluttons, consumed in excess, and is filled with putrid water and stinking mud. Like the water around the boat, perhaps?

Episode 4 - Chasing It - This episode saw Tony's gambling losses escalate and his relationship with Hesh crumble. Dante's level 4 of hell was for those who lived greedily, those who stockpiled their fortunes, hoarding everything. Sound like Hesh?

Episode 5 - Walk Like A Man - this was a hateful episode, showing AJ taking joy in other's pain in order to heal from depression, and Christopher bearing the brunt of ostracization, and the feud between him and Paulie. Dante's 5th level of hell is reserved for the wrathful and the gloomy, punishing the cruel, vindictive, and hateful.

Episode 6 - Kennedy & Heidi - We see Christopher's death at Tony's hands, Tony's Vegas trip, and him screaming "I get it!" at the blinking sun. Level 6 of Dante's hell is for the heretics who fail to believe in God and the afterlife. Some have commented that this episode saw Tony reconcile with the fact that he's happy he's an evil guy, and that killing his cousin made him content, so therefore he turned from God and didn't mind heading toward hell. Maybe "I get it!" was Tony yelling to the universe that he understood there was no God, and that the ends justify the means, allowing him to revel in his evil without fear of divine retribution? That's something a heretic might do.

Episode 7 - The Second Coming - AJ's attempted suicide - the savage beating of Coco - the start of the NY/NJ war. Dante's 7th level of hell is reserved for the violent, the assasins, the war-mongers; and also those who commit suicide. Enough said.

Episode 8 - The Blue Comet - the end of Tony's therapy with Melfi - the full blown war - the killing of Bobby - maybe of Sil? Level 8 of hell involves "many and varied sinners," such as the seducers and the pimps (Sil runs the Bing), the barraters (those who commit an "unlawful breach of duty on the part of a ship's master or crew resulting in injury to the ship's owner" - which could be just about anyone in the NJ crew after Phil's bungling whacking), the thieves (which Bobby essentially was, not a true killer), and the hypocrites (Melfi).

Episode 9 - Made in America - The End. Level 9 of Dante's hell is the deepest level, where Satan himself resides (maybe Tony will die and see for himself what that sun was saying to him when flashing...his peyote experince might have been wrong, and instead of "there is no God," the Sun was saying, "this is hell, you're heading the right way!"). The traitors live here, Judas and Brutus included.
 

Dusty

Peacock
Gold Member
I love the malapropos throughout the Sopranos.

I'm still in Season One in my re-watch.

In one episode Tony says to Camilla "You act like I'm Hannibal Lecture or something."

In the flashback episode, Tony's father is trying to convince Livia to move to Reno for a business opportunity and Livia bitches and won't go. Tony's father says "Livia, you're an albacore around my neck."
 

Lucky

Pelican
Gold Member
Dusty said:
I love the malapropos throughout the Sopranos.

I'm still in Season One in my re-watch.

In one episode Tony says to Camilla "You act like I'm Hannibal Lecture or something."

In the flashback episode, Tony's father is trying to convince Livia to move to Reno for a business opportunity and Livia bitches and won't go. Tony's father says "Livia, you're an albacore around my neck."

I totally forgot about the albacore line :laugh:.

My favorite malapropisms came from Carmine Jr.

"We're in a fucking stagmire!"

"A pint of blood costs more than a gallon of gold."
 
Chris: 'The Russians? They`re not all bad`

Paulie: `How 'bout the Cuban Missile Crisis? Cocksuckers flew four nuclear missiles into Cuba, pointed them right at us. `

Chris: `That was real? I saw that movie, I thought it was bullshit. `

:laugh:

A lot of the Chris and Paulie scenes were comedic gold.
 

Lucky

Pelican
Gold Member
The writer's room for this show must have been an awesome environment.

Tony: [over the phone] It's a bad connection so I'm gonna talk fast! The guy you're looking for is an ex-commando! He killed sixteen Chechen rebels single-handed!

Paulie: Get the fuck outta here.

Tony: Yeah. Nice, huh? He was with the Interior Ministry. Guy's like a Russian green beret. He can not come back and tell this story. You understand?

Paulie: I hear you.

[hangs up]

Paulie: You're not gonna believe this. He killed sixteen Czechoslovakians. Guy was an interior decorator.

Christopher: His house looked like shit.

:laugh:
 
Paulie: Hey, I remember every blowjob I ever got. How 'bout you, remember your first blowjob?
Sil: Yeah, of course...
Paulie: How long did it take for the guy to cum?
 
I was thinking about this randomly the other day. Michael Imperioli, who plays Christopher on the show, was only FIVE YEARS younger than James Gandolfini. It's amazing how much younger he looked on the show AND considering he was Tony's nephew. Just goes to show how old Tony looked in addition to his weight. Sad.
 

Captain Ahab

Woodpecker
I love the Sopranos. One of my top shows.

I think the first two seasons are the best. I think, if anyone were to say why people think this is the greatest show ever, those two seasons would be their best argument.

The season finale of Season 4 with the argument between Tony and Carmella is arguably the greatest scene I have ever witnessed in television. The chemistry between James and Edie was simply phenomenal. I am sure everyone was holding their heads out of respect after that scene.

I think the shows decline in quality is pretty obvious though. I think Season 3 is largely forgettable-minus Pine Barrens. Season 4 wasn't that hot either (except Ralphie who I think is the second greatest character on the show after Tony).Season 5 had Buscemi but he really wasn't utilized effectively in my opinion. I was expecting to see his FARGO/ Reservoir Dogs side...I got a subtle, side character. I will give credit to Season 6 for Blue Comet and Made In America;however, still not on par with the first two seasons.

I think that is why I give the nod to the Wire. The Wire had quality over a longer period of time, with Season 4 being its Magnum Opus. Also, it included more elements of society. I got to learn about the drug corners in inner city neighborhoods, the american working class, the politicians, the school system, and the newsroom, all in one show. Also, the character development was much broader over many different people in the show. There really is no main character in the Wire since everyone in the show has a story-from Bubbles the drug addict to Omar the rifleman that robs drug dealers, to Mcnulty the police officer who rebels against his superiors, to the inner city kids in the school system that deal with lack of funding for their education curriculum.

The Sopranos, in the end, is about Tony-one dimensional. The Wire was more comprehensive.
 
Captain Ahab said:
I think that is why I give the nod to the Wire. The Wire had quality over a longer period of time, with Season 4 being its Magnum Opus. Also, it included more elements of society. I got to learn about the drug corners in inner city neighborhoods, the american working class, the politicians, the school system, and the newsroom, all in one show. Also, the character development was much broader over many different people in the show. There really is no main character in the Wire since everyone in the show has a story-from Bubbles the drug addict to Omar the rifleman that robs drug dealers, to Mcnulty the police officer who rebels against his superiors, to the inner city kids in the school system that deal with lack of funding for their education curriculum.

The Sopranos, in the end, is about Tony-one dimensional. The Wire was more comprehensive.

I hear that argument for The Wire over The Sopranos a lot, although I prefer the emphasis on Tony. Over the 60 hours or so of footage Tony must be on screen for at least 40 of them. How many other characters get that much time in that great of a role? McNulty probably got less than 10, and he's the closest thing to a lead character on The Wire. Gandolfini killed it too, I'm not sure if I've ever seen anyone take to a role like that before.

I do agree that The Sopranos should have lost a season at some point. Probably 4 or 5. The Wire had it's weaknesses too though, especially that 5th season, it was a massive letdown after 4 killer ones.

Either choice is definitely a good one, but I don't get people who go with Breaking Bad. I've never even been able to make it through the whole thing.
 
Captain Ahab said:
The Sopranos, in the end, is about Tony-one dimensional. The Wire was more comprehensive.

While I agree with you that the show didn't hold up to the first 2 seasons, that statement is simply ludicrous. The Sopranos is anything BUT one-dimensional. There are a ton of layers, which were previously discussed on this thread and elsewhere.
 

Nemausus

Woodpecker
Gold Member
Dusty said:
I love the malapropos throughout the Sopranos.

I'm still in Season One in my re-watch.

In one episode Tony says to Camilla "You act like I'm Hannibal Lecture or something."

In the flashback episode, Tony's father is trying to convince Livia to move to Reno for a business opportunity and Livia bitches and won't go. Tony's father says "Livia, you're an albacore around my neck."

Ha, I watched a later episode this week where Carmine Sr. talks to Tony about being his in therapy. While offering his support to Tony, Carmine says "there's no more stigmata these days."

One of my favourite malapropos.

Another good one is when Tony tries to repeat Melfi's Amour Fou to Gloria.

"We had our... mo fo ... or whatever and it was nice."
 
"I agree with that Senator Sanitorium. He says if we let this stuff go too far, pretty soon we'll be fucking dogs." -Tony, talking to Dr. Melfi about homosexuality.

:laugh:
 
Cunnilinguist said:
Captain Ahab said:
The Sopranos, in the end, is about Tony-one dimensional. The Wire was more comprehensive.

While I agree with you that the show didn't hold up to the first 2 seasons, that statement is simply ludicrous. The Sopranos is anything BUT one-dimensional. There are a ton of layers, which were previously discussed on this thread and elsewhere.

I'm guessing he meant the show was too focused on Tony, where The Wire was about an entire city. Really The Sopranos was about Tony's interactions with his families. So Family vs City.

Tony definitely isn't one-dimensional. Really few characters on that show are, at least the ones that got significant screen time. His immediate family is one of the best portray of a family I've ever seen. Carm, AJ, and Meadow were all so believable, even if they were insufferable.
 
Hedonistic Traveler said:
Really The Sopranos was about Tony's interactions with his families. So Family vs City.

I don't quite agree. Yes, the show is centered around Tony and his family (2 families, really) but it's actually a microcosm of US society at large. The family is a metaphor for how dysfunctional and complex the world has become. In addition to that, the show deals with questions of racism, discrimination, domestic violence (ha), drugs, and IDENTITY. The last season is actually about the loss of identity, where Tony has dreams centered around his alter ego (Kevin Finnerty). Paulie and Bobby as well go through bouts of questioning their own identities.
 
Cunnilinguist said:
Hedonistic Traveler said:
Really The Sopranos was about Tony's interactions with his families. So Family vs City.

I don't quite agree. Yes, the show is centered around Tony and his family (2 families, really) but it's actually a microcosm of US society at large. The family is a metaphor for how dysfunctional and complex the world has become. In addition to that, the show deals with questions of racism, discrimination, domestic violence (ha), drugs, and IDENTITY. The last season is actually about the loss of identity, where Tony has dreams centered around his alter ego (Kevin Finnerty). Paulie and Bobby as well go through bouts of questioning their own identities.

Oh yeah definitely, I phrased that poorly. What I meant was that the two shows deal with really similar themes of corruption, morality, violence, greed, and a general lack of opportunity. All very real issues in modern America. The Sopranos does it through the filter of family, using Tony's two families as the example. The Wire does it through the entire city. That was all I meant when I said family vs city. I didn't mean the problems were unique to Tony's family.

I agree with the loss of identity towards the end of The Sopranos. It's not even just Tony, Bobby, and Paulie. AJ and Eugene go through it too. Even Junior, although in his own, slightly more natural way.

I was too young to really watch these shows real time, it would have been an interesting experience. Both shows have very similar endings, things just go on.

Meadow is set to be the next Carmela, a mob wife. AJ is set to be more of a Little Carmine figure, legitimate work but with family connections. The final montage on The Wire shows Michael becoming Omar, Dukie becomes Bubbles, the black detective(the young one) becomes McNulty.

Time passes and only the characters change.
 
Meadow would have been a mob wife had Jackie Aprile never died . They could've formed a beautiful couple . Jackie forced his way into the mob world after he quit school ,but Tone ordered a hit to have him clipped .
AJ never had the qualities of a mobster nor did Tony intend to involve him in the NY family .He was a pussy and cry baby par excellence .
If there ever was a Season 7 , it would've started with the song of "Frank Sinatra - It was a very good year" . Sil' named boss temporarily after the consent of the captains and Tony in the coma after getting shot by black dudes .
 
Euphoric_Breeze said:
Meadow would have been a mob wife had Jackie Aprile never died . They could've formed a beautiful couple . Jackie forced his way into the mob world after he quit school ,but Tone ordered a hit to have him clipped .
AJ never had the qualities of a mobster nor did Tony intend to involve him in the NY family .He was a pussy and cry baby par excellence .
If there ever was a Season 7 , it would've started with the song of "Frank Sinatra - It was a very good year" . Sil' named boss temporarily after the consent of the captains and Tony in the coma after getting shot by black dudes .

Well she was marrying Patsy Parisi's kid at the end of the series. She also wanted to be a lawyer for the mob, against her father's wishes. Jackie Jr was retarded, but Tony didn't order him to be killed. Ralphie did that just to fuck with Tony. Tony was ready to give him a pass, he just didn't want to say it.

AJ was a pussy, but he was following a similar path to Carmine Jr. Leaving the mob while staying connected. Odds are he'd return to the mob, similar to what Carmine Jr. did in the final seasons. Even if he wasn't successful, he would be making an attempt.

"It Was A Very Good Year" was already used as an intro. Maybe season 2 opening montage?

Really the North Jersey Mob would have been done with Tony's death. Who ever took over for Phil Leotardo would just have the Jersey family as a smaller crew under their family. It would also probably be Patsy heading them, not Sil. Definitely not Paulie who was opposed to any more responsibility. Most people agree that Patsy was the one who had Tony killed, it only makes sense for him to move up after.
 

Dusty

Peacock
Gold Member
This is a great Red Pill scene. The girl in the scene is a rich Jewish girl (her father is a renowned surgeon) working as a D-girl for a movie producer. Christopher is connected to the mob and is a thug, psychopath and murder.

Look at her face around 2:10 when Chistopher intimidates the dude bumping into her at the club.

Later on she jumps him and fucks his brains out (even though she is married to his cousin).

 
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