The Srebrenica massacre: a lesson in Western propaganda

[Khan]

This might seem like a stupid question, but why was there so much brutality?

There are many reasons for this. I'm not a historian or a political analyst, but I'll try to give a brief description. This is the ethnic map of former Yugoslavia according to the 1981 census (Montenegrins are barely distinguishable from Serbs on this map due to color, but it doesn't change much):

In short, the recipe for disaster went along these lines:

- take seven different nationalities, who belong to three different religions and whose ethnic areas of residence are largely intermixed;
- put them all into a single state, ruled by the Communist Party;
- suppress all nationalism, but make the largest nation over-represented in the government, military & police force etc.
- after the death of the charismatic, sociopath alpha-male dictator, whose charisma and power largely held the country together, have incompetent Communist bureaucracy take power;
- absent of Western loans, watch the socialist command economy collapse, increasing despair and frustration among the people;
- have some sweeping changes in the world affect the people, who now all want democracy, capitalism, nation-states, ethnic self-determination etc.
- watch the country erupt in flames in short order.

That's basically it. In Croatia, when people discuss the fall of Yugoslavia, they sometimes resort to mental masturbation on the example of Czechoslovakia. Look at them, they say, they separated without bloodshed!

Well of course they did. The Czechs and Slovaks are culturally very similar, and their ethnic territories are homogeneous and separated. For them it was easy, for us - not so much.

Bosnia today is not unlike Yugoslavia. You have Serbs and Croats who want out, and Muslims who want all of Bosnia for themselves. Of course, the Muslims will never admit this - they'll usually rebrand their nationalism as multiculturalism or some shit like that. When they say We want a multicultural Bosnia, they actually mean Shut up, do as we say, and watch us get deep into the asses of our Saudi sponsors.

The problem is, the international community won't allow a peaceful disintegration of Bosnia because if the Serbs and Croats left, you'd have a Muslim nation-state in Europe that would be financially dominated by its foreign sponsors from Turkey, Saudi Arabia etc. This is the anchor that's keeping the Serbs and Croats in.

 

[nomadbrah]

Are Albanians even European? Some of them look very dark. I've read many times now in pre-WW2 antrophology and linguistics (only pre-WW2 stuff is non-pc), that most signs show migration of people from the Caucasus and other parts of the Ottoman empire into Albania, those who call themselves Sqhiptari, their language is a strange combination of languages, having loan words for most everything related to seafaring (which strongly suggests a landlocked region as origin).

Before you deny this theory out of habit, remember the Gypsies.

 

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

That's basically it. In Croatia, when people discuss the fall of Yugoslavia, they sometimes resort to mental masturbation on the example of Czechoslovakia. Look at them, they say, they separated without bloodshed!

Well of course they did. The Czechs and Slovaks are culturally very similar, and their ethnic territories are homogeneous and separated. For them it was easy, for us - not so much.

:agree2:

 

[anthony]

Are Albanians even European? Some of them look very dark. I've read many times now in pre-WW2 antrophology and linguistics (only pre-WW2 stuff is non-pc), that most signs show migration of people from the Caucasus and other parts of the Ottoman empire into Albania, those who call themselves Sqhiptari, their language is a strange combination of languages, having loan words for most everything related to seafaring (which strongly suggests a landlocked region as origin).

Before you deny this theory out of habit, remember the Gypsies.

Albanians, to my understanding have been in Europe as long as the Hungarians. Skanderbeg is their national hero and he was around 600 years ago.

 

[911]

Are Serbs, Croats and Bosnian really that different though? Yes, different religions, but very similar languages, and a long common history. They are far more alike than say, Bretons and French; Catalan, Basque and Castilian; Flemish and Walloon; Romanche and Swiss German, and so forth.

I think the Yugoslav communities got played, and their differences amplified. Sort of like what happened, at about the same time, in Rwanda, also under the Clinton administration.

 

[tomzestatlu]

Let´s spread the truth, Srebrenica is big lie.
There have been commited many crimes against Serbs and I am ashamed of my country´s politicians, because they supported it (from bombing Beograd to recognizing Kosovo).
There´s good document, that answers question "why?".
The weight of chains https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2qVfepfmus

 

[Khan]

Are Serbs, Croats and Bosnian really that different though? Yes, different religions, but very similar languages, and a long common history. They are far more alike than say, Bretons and French; Catalan, Basque and Castilian; Flemish and Walloon; Romanche and Swiss German, and so forth.

I think the Yugoslav communities got played, and their differences amplified. Sort of like what happened, at about the same time, in Rwanda, also under the Clinton administration.

Our common history stretches back only until 1918 - before that, Croats were part of the Habsburg Empire, and Serbs were part of the Ottoman Empire until 1878, and later independent. Throughout its history, Croatia was always part of the Western/Roman Catholic sphere, and Serbia was part of the Eastern/Orthodox sphere. Bosnian Muslims were a separate entity of their own. Thus, we were more isolated one another than one might infer from our geographic proximity.

After two historical experiments that both collapsed miserably and ended in bloodshed, I'll always be of the opinion that forging a common Yugoslav state was a huge mistake. As I said in my previous post, if Czechs and Slovaks didn't work it out, there's no way Serbs/Croats/Muslims and others could have ever made it.

 

[N°6]

I do agree that the NATO intervention in 1999 was a sham and never should have happened. Clinton administration was truly idiotic - amidst growing threat from Al-Qaeda and Islamic terrorism, the only country he decides to bomb is the country that's actually fighting Islamic extremists.

Is it just me who sees the pattern?

- Afghan socialist government v the Mujaheddin: the US backs the Jihad
- The Yugoslav multicultural meltdown: the US backs the Jihad
- Secular Assad v Sunni nutcases: the US backs the Jihad
- Secular Iraq v Sunni nutcase Persian Gulf states: the US backs the Jihad
- Gaddafi v 'rebels': the US backs the Jihad

All of the above seem to be done under the watchful shadow of the House of Saud and executed mostly by Democratic presidents (Carter, Clinton and Obama) which Bush father and son carrying on the baton.

Within the now multicultural Western states, post-9/11, new hate laws seem to be focused to stop an indigenous backlash against the mass-importation of incompatible groups. Is it any wonder the Jihad has returned after being moribund for centuries with the odd flash such has during the Indian Mutiny?

 

[Orion]

Are Serbs, Croats and Bosnian really that different though? Yes, different religions, but very similar languages, and a long common history. They are far more alike than say, Bretons and French; Catalan, Basque and Castilian; Flemish and Walloon; Romanche and Swiss German, and so forth.

I think the Yugoslav communities got played, and their differences amplified. Sort of like what happened, at about the same time, in Rwanda, also under the Clinton administration.

Linguistically and genetically, Serbs, Croats and Bosniaks are same people. When i say same, i mean absolutely the same. It's undisputed historical, archaeological, linguistic and genealogical fact.

But that isn't the point, is it ? Because contrary to what Adolf thought, nation cannot be exclusively defined by genes. Pitfalls of that are evident to anyone with a hint of lucidity.

But problem is, while Serb and Croat national histories are mythical, traditional in it's foundation (usually featuring a mythical, not well documented King who found the state, which was back then populated with only loosely connected Slavic tribes), Bosniak and all other "new" nations histories are entirely secular modernist. So as with every nation of tradition, it was the state that founded people, not vice versa, however to an average Bosniak, it is of utmost importance to dispute Serb or Croat right on having self-rule in Bosnia on basis that Bosnia belongs to "Bosnian" people, and by Bosnian they mean not only Muslims, but Bosnians as some sort of descendants of Bogumils, which is another complete partisanship on their part in trying to figure out the metaphysics of state and state foundation.

Existence of Serb and Croats ethnicity is based on established historical reference points, such as religion, traditions, customs, etc. That being said, so is Bosniak ethnicity. But they have major problem in claiming their right to entire Bosnian territory, since if their arguments fall on logic of Bosniakness of certain Kings or important individuals, not figuring out the pitfalls of such position, which deprives them of metaphysical concept of their own supposed state. That is the reason why Bosniaks cannot conceive of their independent state which is not in the borders of entire territory of Bosnia, which is why they are ardently opposed to any Croat or Serb self rule. In otherwords, they made material Bosnia their god, not transcendent one. That is why Serbs or Armenians for example, could establish their states after centuries of Ottoman rule. Because Serb/Armenian state as such transcendent concept, never left minds of people, and most importantly, intellectuals. In fact, they were established with particular ease.

 

[Sp5]

I was involved as a bit player in Operation Allied Force, the 1999 Kosovo intervention. I agree it set a bad precedent for things like the Crimea, but I don't think it enabled jihadists, nor did the Bosnia intervention.

Before the Serbs surrendered and allowed NATO into Kosovo, we were getting intelligence reports that Al Qaeda was in the area and we should look out for attacks. Navy SEALs were roaming around looking for both Al Qaeda and Serbian special forces around NATO bases in Albania.

After the western intervention, in both Bosnia and Kosovo, you ended up with NATO/EU peacekeeping forces, with a heavy component of UN, EU, USAID, DFID, OECD, OSCE nation builders. They are still there.

In any situation, you have to pose the counterfactual. What would have happened if there was no western intervention?

It's possible there would have been a long-term Bosniak and Kosovar insurgency against the Serbs and Croats. The insurgents would have partly identified themselves as Muslims. Money and fighters had already entered the Balkans from the Arab Gulf. It would have continued for longer had the west not intervened. Al Qaeda could have gained strength from the fight, as they have in Iraq and Syria. The fighting and brutality could have gone on for years and ended up radicalizing Muslims in the Balkans. What we have now - countries which are EU/western foster children and are secular, with the freedom to drink, etc. What we could have had - ISIS and Al Qaeda still fighting in the Balkans and recruiting a lot of Bosniaks and Kosovars..

 

[Orion]

with a heavy component of UN, EU, USAID, DFID, OECD, OSCE nation builders. They are still there.

In other words, the entire synagogue of globalist agitators.

In any situation, you have to pose the counterfactual. What would have happened if there was no western intervention?

It's possible there would have been a long-term Bosniak and Kosovar insurgency against the Serbs and Croats. The insurgents would have partly identified themselves as Muslims. Money and fighters had already entered the Balkans from the Arab Gulf. It would have continued for longer had the west not intervened. Al Qaeda could have gained strength from the fight, as they have in Iraq and Syria. The fighting and brutality could have gone on for years and ended up radicalizing Muslims in the Balkans. What we have now - countries which are EU/western foster children and are secular, with the freedom to drink, etc. What we could have had - ISIS and Al Qaeda still fighting in the Balkans and recruiting a lot of Bosniaks and Kosovars..

We already know what would have happened. Actually, the result is the reason why west intervened.

West terribly hoped that what would happen would be what you just described. But what actually happened is that insurgency in Kosovo was utterly crushed. In entirety of war, Insurgents captured only one border post, with help of NATO. The reason why peace was arranged is because of huge economic and structural damage due to bombing in mainland Yugoslavia.

That is the reason why west intervened, because where order is restored, there is nothing to be gained.

Also, unlike defeatist, desertionist, meek, incapable JNA (Yugoslav People's Army) that fought in Croatia and Bosnia, VJ (Yugoslav Army) that fought in Kosovo was greatly restructured, reformed, swept of all deserters and hippies, and left with a force of highly motivated 80.000 regular soldiers and 20.000 special forces, which was willing, taken into consideration the huge importance Kosovo has for Serbs, to fight and resist.

This is the reason all patriotic Serbs rallied behind Milosevic, whom they actually wanted to get rid of prior to war. That is the difference between patriotism (standing for your country and it's whole being - it's economy, sovereignty, it's biological body, it's ideas) and petty 21. century proletarian-bourgeouis-pariah Soros sponsored colored nationalism

 

[PainPositive]

Yes, nobody was innocent in the wars. What we have a problem with is that the Western media painted us as the devils, ridiculing Serbia and its people. But people who visit here know the true story, we are good people.

I'm biased because my mother is a Serb. and I lived in Serbia for awhile but I've never met anyone who visited who didn't comment on how "nice" Serbians are. In my experience it goes much deeper than "nice". Living in Serbia is like living in a small town, even if you're in Beograd. Everyone calls each other "brate" and "sestra" or brother and sister, people will go out of their way to help you, and have strong family values.

But somehow, people have the impression that Serbs are mean, violent, criminal types. Nothing could be further from the truth. This is from the West's depiction of them during the wars, and still (to some extent) today.

I went on a tour to a museum once. The tour guide was a young attractive Serbian girl. She came up to me while I was marveling at Tito's photography collection and other accomplishments. She started to speak in Serbian, assuming I was one. (Everyone tells me I look "so Serbian") She was a normal girl and I got the vibe she was somewhat liberal having studied in Northern Europe. That being said, she gave a very unbiased depiction of what happened during the wars as some posters in this thread have. That all sides committed crimes.

Two guys were with me (non forum members) and I don't want to mention what country they are from as not to insult anyone (Canada). These two faggots would not even entertain the idea that Serbians were not murdering savages the MSM made them out to be. I got into such a loud heated debate with them everyone must have thought I was a young nationalist born in the country. All the Serbs and people with Serbian relatives joined in on my side of the fight. Although I didn't need help crushing the nitwits and their emotion based arguments as I'm a good debater and outspoken as well, but it was nice to see the natural reaction to defend their people's character. Opposed to all the floppy, bitch wristed, faggots and their white guilt in America.

The funny part is these two guys had gotten nothing but hospitality, love, kindness, respect, even loyalty from the Serbs during their 4 month stay in Novi Sad (Their words) and still couldn't betray the narrative of the garbage they learned in their liberal PC university. Even when presented with strong evidence, they could not even consider their point of view could be a sham. I don't fault them for getting bad information from a Backwards University, but for sticking to it so hard. Canada must have some affluence for being a fucking zombie because everyone I meet seems like they are suffering from a mild mental retardation of some sort.

When I came to Serbia I had no opinion of the wars. Some of the most vague childhood memories I have are ones where my mother is crying on the phone in front of the TV to her "Family in Yugoslavia" as my Dad put it. She called Clinton a "asshole" and swore a lot in Serbian. That's about all. (Not exactly a geopolitical analyst) After I arrived in Serbia old people I met started asking me "Why you bomb us?" (The only english phrase they seem to know, and my reply was always "I haven't bombed anyone lately") so I started reading.

Obviously being in the American Army and being patriotic gave me some bias but the love of all things Serbian balanced it out. I read the wikipedia page on the conflicts and thought "This is probably bullshit" after 5 minutes. I think I saw the death tolls were too close to be the massacre they made it out to be. The wording was almost passive aggressive towards Serbs. I spoke to everyone I could about it and researched more and came to the conclusion that while Serbs are not completely innocent, they are certainly not monsters they are made out to be.

I hope this paints a relevant picture. I wanted to comment on the rise of Muslims in Bosnia but this post is already too long winded.

PP

 

[Khan]

PainPositive, that's an interesting insight into the matter. After I read your post I wanted to comment on the part where you mentioned that museum girl and her description of the wars, because for me (I'm a Croat) her opinion sounds biased. I have heard of unpleasant experiences with Serbian niceness during the 90s, from some of my extended family members.

But then something else struck my mind. Here we have a topic about a sensitive matter (Balkan wars, war crimes etc.), in which among others both Croats and Serbs have participated. It's been six days, and no one has resorted to name calling, provoking others, trolling etc. The discussion has been civil and polite, some interesting info has been shared and I believe we all learned a bit from each other, even though we disagree on some matters. Whereas on any other forum, chaos would have ensued almost immediately.

I believe this speaks enough about RVF and its community. Hats off, gentlemen.

 

[leanmeansexmachine]

Lean, do not worry about your bias. I am also a little biased, as you can sometimes see.

Although we will certainly disagree (and never agree, unfortunately) with some things, I do have some respect for you Serbs. You have spine, and unlike us, you will not sell your own grandmother in order to get some meaningless validation from some EU birocrats.

Are you a Bosnian Serb? From which region, if it is not too personal?

Let us just say that if there was no justice system, i would be on my way to Zenica right now to give a very personal visit to a couple of people.

PainPositive, that's an interesting insight into the matter. After I read your post I wanted to comment on the part where you mentioned that museum girl and her description of the wars, because for me (I'm a Croat) her opinion sounds biased. I have heard of unpleasant experiences with Serbian niceness during the 90s, from some of my extended family members.

But then something else struck my mind. Here we have a topic about a sensitive matter (Balkan wars, war crimes etc.), in which among others both Croats and Serbs have participated. It's been six days, and no one has resorted to name calling, provoking others, trolling etc. The discussion has been civil and polite, some interesting info has been shared and I believe we all learned a bit from each other, even though we disagree on some matters. Whereas on any other forum, chaos would have ensued almost immediately.

I believe this speaks enough about RVF and its community. Hats off, gentlemen.

Same for Croatian friendliness. I have to be in Zagreb because of my work a couple of times per year, nothing but good times except some nationalists but this is understandable. Good party, good food and fucking nice girls. But i am sure that if i did this during the 90's they would have hung me on the flagpole in front of the parliament building.

The reason why we are not making fights here is because we understand the true powers behind wars. We can set aside our differences and history to archieve a common goal or good disscussion. Your average Serb or Croat do not like each other most of the time and refuse to do this, but you can not blame them because of our history and they only read and see propaganda news.

@Sp5

I appreciate your input as an American soldier. It is always interesting to hear outsider opinions. You are right on many things except for Saudi Arabian and radical islamic power in Bosnia. Western intervention only made them stronger and more dominant. They also covered up the many Arab soldiers in Bosnia. Talk to anybody from the West, even the informed, and many do not even know they came here to fight. The situation in Bosnia now is, old and dying Croatian and Serb minorities, young and growing radical islamic Bosniaks. People are not killing each other on the streets anymore, it is more of a slow genocide and demographic takeover.

Clinton has always been in the pocket of the Saudi's, so basically, you were being paid by Saudi Arabia and working for them. Tracking down Serbian and Croatian resistance soldiers to put them on trial or hand them over to Bosnian forces, who would later torture or kill them. All in the name of 'peacekeeping'. Atleast that is my understanding of what the Americans and NATO were doing there.

Reading about the migrant invasion i notice alot of the same things like in Bosnia. Thousands of soldiers from Middle East and Africa going to Europe to wage the never ending holy war.



This is why reacted so hard in the migrant invasion thread. You can see what is happening and you try to stop it or encourage others to do something. But it is like having a friend who is a drug addict, you try to stop them, talk some sense into them but if they do no not listen you have to consider it a lost cause, no matter how hard it is.

 

[PainPositive]

But then something else struck my mind. Here we have a topic about a sensitive matter (Balkan wars, war crimes etc.), in which among others both Croats and Serbs have participated. It's been six days, and no one has resorted to name calling, provoking others, trolling etc. The discussion has been civil and polite, some interesting info has been shared and I believe we all learned a bit from each other, even though we disagree on some matters. Whereas on any other forum, chaos would have ensued almost immediately.

I believe this speaks enough about RVF and its community. Hats off, gentlemen.

This is very true and a testament to the quality of membership and moderation of this forum. It has very strict rules that must be adhered to but also, we are free men. We could certainly say what's on our mind and get a warning without getting banned but we choose to be civil. Like someone else said, we know who is pulling the strings to some extent.

For others reading this topic is in fact so sensitive I've never seen this civil a conversation about it (between Croats and Serbs) in person, ever, much less on the internet. Go to any youtube video about the subject and look at the comments. Yes youtube comments are always crazy but these take the cake.

It would be good meet some of you. I wasn't born a Serb but I'm fairly certain I will end up there permanently. This summer I will be in Belgrade for a month before going to the seaside with some friends and family. If you are around the area this summer or fall drop me a PM and I'd like to buy you a beer and learn more about this subject along with other ones.

Best,
PP

 

[Irenicus]

@leanmeansexmachine.

I am sorry to hear what happened to you. If nothing else, the pollution will take care of them (from what I have heard, it is terrible!). Also, I am ex Sarajevan.

One thing (or rather myth), in all honesty, is slightly pissing me off (nothing personal against you, many have fallen for it). This...

The situation in Bosnia now is, old and dying Croatian and Serb minorities, young and growing radical islamic Bosniaks. People are not killing each other on the streets anymore, it is more of a slow genocide and demographic takeover.

...is what I am talking about.

This was true before the war, and a few years after. But right now, that simply is not the case. I have followed the demography in the Balkans for years, so trust me on this.

Here, two examples:

1. Mostar. After the war, the city was divided between Croats and Muslims. Muslims were in majority, and they wanted unification - so that they could take over the town. But, starting from approximately 2008, it was evident that the Croats have bigger TFR, and that they are immigrating from the local countryside. It was exactly the opposite with Muslims. And there is no wonder why nowadays they want separation.

2. The Muslims have (or about to have) a negative TFR (due to immigration, being the most urbanized population and poverty). The TFR of Serbs is also bad, but they have their own entity, so there is no danger for them being overrun. The Croats have quite big TFR as well.


In the long term (100 years), Bosnia will be divided between Serbia and Croatia. The Muslims will get their little Gaza in the territories they control (23%).

As soon the US and EU get out of here, this will happen. It was long overdue.

 

[leanmeansexmachine]

Interesting, do you have some articles or studies that detail this? I need to visit Bosnia soon to find out for myself. I am not Bosnian Serb btw but i knew people that lived there.

The only thing i have heard from Serbs that live there and Serbian media is the exact opposite. Like PainPositive said, we Serbs are like one big family, i know people in Zurich, Stockholm, Berlin, Vienna, Rotterdam, if i want to know what is going on there or make business i just have to make a quick call. I hope we never lose this quality.

You Croatians are alot different in this regard, young Croats are liberal and more individualistic.

 

[Khan]

In the long term (100 years), Bosnia will be divided between Serbia and Croatia. The Muslims will get their little Gaza in the territories they control (23%).

As soon the US and EU get out of here, this will happen. It was long overdue.

Interesting info, I have to admit I always thought Bosnian Croats are due to get extinct if they don't get their separate entity.

I guess it's time to settle our differences and hammer out another Cvetković-Maček agreement? The borders of Banovina Croatia look appealing.

You Croatians are alot different in this regard, young Croats are liberal and more individualistic.

In this matter we're not only different from you, but also from other central European nations with whom we share a lot of common history, like for example Hungarians, Slovaks etc.

This must have something to do with the war. I believe it's the following:

- from 1991 to 1995, we had to endure a lot of shit from the Serbs (no offense, that's our perspective). The war exhausted us mentally and made us very suitable for indoctrination with Western values. In a way, we sought refuge in the West from chaos and destruction that was emanating from the east. The political and social climate in Croatia changed drastically from 1995 (end of the war, victory against Serbs who rebelled) to 1999-2000 (President Tudjman's death, elections that brought the end of 10-year long HDZ government).

In a mere couple of years, our way of thinking changed from The West doesn't like us but fuck them, we'll take our destiny in our hands to My God the EU and NATO are so wonderful, please infest us with McDonalds, Big Brother and rape us in the ass, we'll take everything with a smile.

- the Serbs have a different recent history. You had to endure a lot of shit from the West in 1999. The NATO bombing campaign also exhausted you, but in your case, bombs and destruction came from the West. Therefore it was natural for you to seek refuge from the West and find it in traditional values. Or at least, in increased resistance to indoctrination with Western values.

- fortunately for us, young Croats are slowly becoming more and more conservative. The mainstream media has already bemoaned that fact on several occasions, there were news articles spreading fear about the alleged bigotry, chauvinism and homophobia of the younger generations.

 

[Orion]

Bosnian Croats could have got their entity years ago. Not only would it be better for them, but it could have actually made Bosnia work with a proper status quo, and where Sarajevo could actually start working as both Bosniak and federal capital. This way, Sarajevo is a symbol to Serbs of domination of federation of Bosnia, which they see as an unholy alliance of Bosniaks and Croats.

However as i said before: Where there is order, there is nothing to be gained for elites. And let's face it, Croat leadership is particularly influenced by elites, and by Zagreb, to which it, understandably, remains firmly loyal.

And Croats seem completely oblivious to the fact that the reason Bosniaks are so cheerful over Croat passivity, is because they don't want to cede Mostar to Croats as their capital.

 

[PainPositive]

You Croatians are alot different in this regard, young Croats are liberal and more individualistic.

In this matter we're not only different from you, but also from other central European nations with whom we share a lot of common history, like for example Hungarians, Slovaks etc.

This must have something to do with the war. I believe it's the following:

toMy God the EU and NATO are so wonderful, please infest us with McDonalds, Big Brother and rape us in the ass, we'll take everything with a smile.

- the Serbs have a different recent history. You had to endure a lot of shit from the West in 1999. The NATO bombing campaign also exhausted you, but in your case, bombs and destruction came from the West. Therefore it was natural for you to seek refuge from the West and find it in traditional values. Or at least, in increased resistance to indoctrination with Western values.

I find this to be very true. I believe the Serbs will resist even if some of my friends in BG are turning into hipster faggots. The vast majority are traditional and dislike the west. These are the main reasons (besides having family there) why I will try and make a home in Serbia.