The Steroid thread

[mikeymike]

Just for curiosity sake, do you lose most of your gains when you get off steroids? It is hard to ascertain what is fact and what isn't when looking this stuff up.

depends on what you take. You will lose something when you come off, how much depends on what you've taken. Guys will take loads of test and dbol and pack on 35 pounds in 3 months preparing to be big on the beach for the summer and they're just puffy messes, they get off cycle and see that come flying off. When you're packing on loads of water it'll come off. If you cycle and pack on 5-10 pounds of lean muscle lose bodyfat in the process, you might lose a little of that muscle but you could keep a majority of it without packing on much of the fat you lost. You won't be where you were when you're on most likely but you can be way further ahead then when you started if you do it properly or you can lose everything if you don't do it properly.

 

[Moma]

What is the strongest liver builder you can recommend? Gear affects the liver so there are usually liver builders that are recommended.

Can anyone (looking for a chime in from Rionomad, Velkrum) recommend a strong liver repair concoction?

Thanks,

liv52, or whatever himalaya calls it now, otc and consistantly recommended for liver support thru the years. Liver is amazingly resilient, it can take a lot of abuse and bounce back but I've seen guys take mind boggling amounts of orals and their panels go thru the roof, then get on liv52 and it bounces back strong and the numbers fall back in line.

can you provide a link to liv52, please?

 

[mikeymike]

What is the strongest liver builder you can recommend? Gear affects the liver so there are usually liver builders that are recommended.

Can anyone (looking for a chime in from Rionomad, Velkrum) recommend a strong liver repair concoction?

Thanks,

liv52, or whatever himalaya calls it now, otc and consistantly recommended for liver support thru the years. Liver is amazingly resilient, it can take a lot of abuse and bounce back but I've seen guys take mind boggling amounts of orals and their panels go thru the roof, then get on liv52 and it bounces back strong and the numbers fall back in line.

can you provide a link to liv52, please?

http://www.himalayausa.com/herbalformulas/livercaretab.htm

 

[AlbertoDelMuerto]

Alberto, I see you are in Camden I actually spend a bit of time there but being in the UK, I can tell you that a vial of UGL test will be £30, pharma £40, Pharma nova will be £15, and 100 dbols or winny tabs will be £30. If you cannot afford a 40 quid tub of protein once a month you may struggle to pay for juice and the emergency shit you need to keep on standby.
Also Camden should be the best day game place in the UK based on the talent you see walking around but I never have much luck there hoe do you find day game there ?

I recently had a testosterone serum done, my levels are average at 700 ng/dl, so I don't suppose I need testosterone supplementation. What I certainly need is an estrogen blocker, and I have already ordered 90 days supply for only 35 quids. As for D-bol, I'm not sure how bad the side-effects are but it seems too expensive for me. I stick to the cheapest protein and spend about 20 quids a month on it.

Camden is not really the best venue for daygame! I suppose Old Street is okay, but Camden not really. I've found the City of London and Picadilly to be the best daygame areas in London. I usually spend one entire day a week daygaming, get around 2-3 number approach 20-25 women. Other than that, I try to run daygame on the subway, when the trains aren't that loaded (you know the rush hour and all that), actually got quite a few numbers this way.

 

[Nineteen84]

I recently had a testosterone serum done,

where'd you get this done?

 

[AlbertoDelMuerto]

I recently had a testosterone serum done,

where'd you get this done?

At the GP Surgery at 9 am.

 

[Nineteen84]

I recently had a testosterone serum done,

where'd you get this done?

At the GP Surgery at 9 am.

Okay cheers, I thought it was something you had to pay to get done. I will ask my GP...

 

[tjuan]

OP: Before you even think about steroids you need to be eating twice what you're eating now.
Do that and your lifts will go through the roof.

 

[Magic Bullets]

Not worth taking unless you have a solid few years under your belt and have pushed your body as hard as it will go naturally. That is the general view on the gear. Even then it is not worth it, Arnold would still have a great physique if he was natural. Juice is too much of a crutch to rely on.

 

[billy]

Just for curiosity sake, do you lose most of your gains when you get off steroids? It is hard to ascertain what is fact and what isn't when looking this stuff up.

Some people lose most of their gains some not so much, many people try to cut after a long bulk and if you diet after a bulking cycle you can lose most of the gains you made. Lots of people stay on using a blast and cruise eg one guy I know blasts in 3-4 g of test per week with 900mg tren and some dbol, he does this for 4 weeks then cruises on 1g test per week for 4 weeks before another blast, After this in run up to a competition he would add in t3 winny DNP etc depending on how much fat he has to lose. A lot of pros never come off unless health problems force the issue.

 

[WanderingSoul]

Some people lose most of their gains some not so much, many people try to cut after a long bulk and if you diet after a bulking cycle you can lose most of the gains you made. Lots of people stay on using a blast and cruise eg one guy I know blasts in 3-4 g of test per week with 900mg tren and some dbol, he does this for 4 weeks then cruises on 1g test per week for 4 weeks before another blast, After this in run up to a competition he would add in t3 winny DNP etc depending on how much fat he has to lose. A lot of pros never come off unless health problems force the issue.

Are you advising someone who weighs 150lbs, and can't squat his own bodyweight, to take steroids? Do you think that is a better idea than to have him eat more and lift heavy?

 

[saturn]

Your focus is all messed up. Forget about steroids, sort out everything else, your wardrobe, hair cut, skin, eye wear, shoes- then learn a language and a musical instrument, do all the things necessary to be the best you can be and maximises you chances with women.

Once you have done everything else you can and the only way you can improve yourself is to go on steroids do it. But do the cost benefit analysis. I don't think its worth it.

 

[Magic Bullets]

I really like your advise Jacks. Placing too much emphasis on your looks and body is femine, don't get me wrong I spend good money on fashion, grooming and supplements. It is rediculous to do that with the sole intention of getting laid, it has to be for you. I can eventually see a day when steroids become a legal drug, sometime not to far into the future. The supplement industry is growing at a rapid rate and is usually a precursor to steroids. PUA is constantly evolving and the industry is eventually going to go more innergame, when that happens more men will start to have better choices with women.

 

[AlbertoDelMuerto]

Your focus is all messed up. Forget about steroids, sort out everything else, your wardrobe, hair cut, skin, eye wear, shoes- then learn a language and a musical instrument, do all the things necessary to be the best you can be and maximises you chances with women.

Once you have done everything else you can and the only way you can improve yourself is to go on steroids do it. But do the cost benefit analysis. I don't think its worth it.

Jack, when did I say I needed fashion advice? You sound real effeminate to me.

 

[billy]

Are you advising someone who weighs 150lbs, and can't squat his own bodyweight, to take steroids? Do you think that is a better idea than to have him eat more and lift heavy?

I have not met him have no idea what his BF% really is considering most peoples estimates are guesses, and don't really know exactly what look he wants to achieve. For all we know he could have three inch wrists and have no hope of lifting heavy weights ever even with juice. I do not presume to have a clue about him or what he needs to do to improve and nor does anyone else. 150 lbs is fucking tiny but for all you know that could be within 20lbs of his genetic max at which point he wlll start to put on fat not muscle when he eats more. All this crap said by idiots presuming to know what is the best diet and training or someone they have never met is bollocks. Good training is a system where you can try different things, monitor results and establish the best training regime at that time for that person.
I am not in a position to advise on taking whether or not someone should take steroids but I can say that I waited much longer than I should have to start myself.
The American message boards on the subject are widely regarded around the world to be full of mis-information and bro science rather than info based on scientific study or individuals who had actual blood tests done. If a person wants to start juice its up to them but they should at least get proper information rather than internet bro science to inform their decision.

 

[sixsix]

This...

"I did some really shitty lifting for a few months while eating almost nothing. What steroids would help?"

...comes from the same line of reasoning as...

"Do you take proteins?"

Your body is not going to construct tissue out of thin air. In other news: you need concrete and bricks to build a house.

Your body will increase its amount of muscle mass when a) it needs to and b) it can. It only needs to add muscle when your body is told it is inadequate by training until you can't continue out of fatigue. It is only capable of adding muscle when it has sufficient nutrients. For protein synthesis you need amino acids, which are conveniently found in the proteins in your diet. For energy in general, you need huge amounts of carbohydrates and fats, so select the right ones and eat.

Steroid hormones will enhance the rate of muscle repair after a training so you can train again quicker than without added hormones. Steroids by themselves are not going to a) tell your body it needs to grow or b) enable your body to grow.

Eating and training like a beast will result in you growing. Eating 2000 kcal is eating like a child.

P.S.: I have nothing against taking steroids. I have something against both people being against them and people wanting to do them without understanding the physiological mechanisms at play.

 

[sixsix]

Danger & Play had a good post on this exact topic:

"Why Young Guys Should Avoid Anabolic Steroids"

If you’ve lifted consistently for 5 years, you’ve had nearly 1,000 workouts. You’ve been “up” for weeks at a time. You’ve added more weight to the bar every workout. You know what it’s like to be in the zone.

You’ve also been “down.” You’ve lifted through sickness. You’ve lifted through break-ups, divorces, the deaths of friends and families. You’ve lifted while wondering if you were going to lose your job, and when stressing about paying rent.

When you have had dozens of shitty workouts, you have the emotional maturity to deal with anabolic steroids. You’ll have the maturity to realize that maintaining 100% of the gains is unrealistic, and that the weeks following a cycle are going to be rough.

Until you’ve had at least 500 hard workouts in the weight room, you should not even consider taking steroids.

 

[Hades]

When people say they didn't bulk up during a "starting strength" routine, I just want to laugh.

You NEED that gallon of milk, three-four large meals per day, heavy lifts, and every week or so (on your rest day), you MUST go to that chinese place and destroy four to five plates of shit. Literally go there and don't put the fork down for a full hour. If you don't do that, you're not doing "starting strength". You might as well be doing arm curls.

I had the good fortune to not have big issues with bulking since I started out kind of fat/large. When I would try to bulk with a SS routine I got up to about 220 pounds from a base of 195 pounds in about five weeks, just by adding half a gallon of whole milk (and frying everything in butter) per day on top of what I'd normally eat (which was kind of a lot to be honest). I would then hit up the gym three times weekly. If you want to bulk but you're not making side trips for triple cheeseburgers and dousing extra-large pizzas in olive oil you're some kind of an asshole.

Trying to get ripped, I am 23, 5'7 and 150 lbs. I can't seem to pack on a great deal of muscle, I trained Starting Strength for 6 months and only gained 5 lbs, and then I did 5x5 for 3 months, and I only gained very little strength.

My stats are weak:
Bench 145x3
Squat 145x5
Deadlift 225x10
Biceps Curl 70x5

Quite weak as you can tell!

That's not a problem. Anyone can benefit from newbie gains, as this article will show you.

http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site/the_novice_effect

I would just go to the starting strength website and ask them for a standard diet plan, if you are (indeed) already technically competent at the lifts. It's possible that in 10-12 weeks you could be up in the 185-190 pound region, which would be pretty big at 5' 7".

Once you have bulked up to those newbie gains, you have two good options. You can either get shredded and just hit up the gym to stay muscular looking, or you can opt for max strength in terms of neuromuscular efficiency (Pavel's PTTP comes to mind). A lot of people don't really give a shit about max strength though. I look the same in jeans and a t-shirt as most people but tend to be a lot stronger.

 

[HiFlo]

The amount of additional interest girls give you after doing an effective cycle is unbelievable. They're superficial, and they love muscle.

 

[sixsix]

The amount of additional interest girls give you after doing an effective cycle is unbelievable. They're superficial, and they love muscle.

Some are and some do.

We're talking about doing a cycle of steroids here, not about being athletic.

"The amount of additional interest guys give you after getting a boob job is unbelievable. They're superficial, and they love tits."

Again, some are and some do. But what kind of people do such things attract? Deciding to do steroids in most situations reflects an immature and undeveloped mind. The kind of thinking leading up to this is rarely that of a stable alpha that knows the grind.