The Syria conflict thread

Bienvenuto said:
Will the fact that Israel and the US stage-managed the rise of Isis finally come out? After all, the aborted Syrian invasion was what this whole post-election meltdown has been about..
It's funny how all of the liberals act as if ISIS randomly comes out of nowhere, completely organically. Nobody funded or armed them or anything.

Lindsey Graham and all of the neocons talking about the reemergence of ISIS if the US leaves ... did they make any phone calls to make sure that happens?
 

Tytalus

Pelican
I have not been paying attention to this issue and don't trust the news to report honestly why the US has withdrawn. Can anyone give me a rundown or point me to a link that explains what is REALLY going on?
 

monsquid

Kingfisher
Tytalus said:
I have not been paying attention to this issue and don't trust the news to report honestly why the US has withdrawn. Can anyone give me a rundown or point me to a link that explains what is REALLY going on?
What do you mean? Without analysis or conclusions these are the facts no matter what news outlet you go to.
  • US is pulling troops out of Northeast Syria. President Trump was told by Erdogan that he was going to do this on a phone call.
  • Erdogan is invading NE Syria to fight the Kurds, specifically the PKK. He also wants to control and influence this region.
  • Syrians in the NE don't want Turkish soldiers in their hometowns and have asked Assad for help. Assad is backed by Putin.
  • Bipartisan Senators have raised concerns on grounds that leaving the Kurds behind will make it harder to build local alliances in the future.
  • President Trump wants to levy sanctions on Turkey as a response. Some in Congress are supporting this.

You can draw your own conclusions.
 
Some more updates.

The Syrian Army is moving into several towns in northeastern Syria's Raqqa Governorate, which was in the Kurdish-led SDF area of control, as the SDF reached an agreement with the Syrian government to handover the area to them.

For the first time in years, Syrian government forces arrived in the towns of Tabqa, on the outskirts of Raqqa, and Ain Issa, which served as the headquarters of the Kurdish-led autonomous administration in northeast Syria, about 20 miles from the Turkish border. Images published by the official Syian Arab News Agency, or SANA, showed government troops arriving atop pickup trucks and waving Syrian flags.

...

The return of Assad’s forces in the northeast came as part of a surprise agreement with Syrian Kurdish authorities seeking to prevent Turkey and its rebel proxies from seizing swaths of territory amid a Turkish-backed offensive. It also represented a stunning reversal for the Kurdish-led administration and allied Syrian Democratic Forces, or SDF, which had partnered with the United States to battle the Islamic State militant group in the area.

The deal was made to allow Syrian government forces to take over security in some border areas, according to Syrian Kurdish officials, who said their administration would maintain control of local institutions. Syria’s government, however, sees the agreement as effectively killing Kurdish ambitions to establish a de facto state in the country’s northeast, said Kamal Jafa, a pro-government military analyst in Syria’s largest city, Aleppo.

But even as the two sides tussled over the specifics, Turkish-backed forces operating under the Syrian National Army, an umbrella group of rebel factions, announced the start of an operation to retake the northern city of Manbij from the SDF.

...

The official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue, said he did not anticipate significant changes for the U.S. military in Syria on Monday but added that preparations were “underway” to consolidate forces and depart from the country.

Earlier Monday, the official said, U.S. troops communicated with forces loyal to Assad as they advanced toward Manbij.

Defence Secretary Mark Esper said the US will be withdrawing troops from Syria within days.


U.S. Defense Secretary Mark Esper announced earlier on Sunday that he was acting on orders from President Donald Trump to begin a deliberate withdrawal from northern Syria, where the United States has around 1,000 forces.

Esper did not elaborate on the timing of the withdrawal, saying only that he wanted it to be done “as safely and quickly as possible.”

The U.S. officials, who spoke to Reuters on condition of anonymity, said the United States was looking at several options but added it appeared likely the military would pull the majority of its forces in the coming days, instead of weeks.

A full withdrawal could take two weeks or more, although even that could happen faster than expected, one official said.
The usual suspects are mobilising to try to block Trump's move somehow.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi says she and GOP Senator Lindsey Graham have agreed Congress needs a resolution to "overturn" President Trump's decision to hastily pull troops from northern Syria, and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell released a statement saying he's "gravely concerned" by what's happening in Syria "and by our nation's apparent response so far."

...

McConnell in is statement said that he looks forward to talking with his colleagues in the Senate and with senior administration offiicals about "what the United States can do to avoid a strategic calamity." He went on to say that while Turkey is a NATO ally, its offensive against the U.S.' Kurdish partners "is jeopardizing years of hard-won progress in the fight against ISIS," and he argued that the withdrawal of U.S. forces from Syria now would "re-create the very conditions that we have worked hard to destroy and invite the resurgence of ISIS." More broadly, he said, withdrawal would create a power vacuum that Iran and Russia would exploit, which is "a catastrophic outcome" for U.S. strategic interests.

...

Esper told "Face the Nation" host Margaret Brennan that the remaining U.S. troops were caught between Turkish forces and the Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF), the main U.S. allies in the fight against ISIS. Esper said that he had spoken with Mr. Trump Saturday after discussions with the rest of the national security team. Mr. Trump, Esper said, then ordered the initiation of a deliberate withdrawal of forces from northern Syria.

The move comes a week after Mr. Trump announced the repositioning of several dozen American troops embedded with Kurdish forces in northern Syria, opening the door for a Turkish offensive against the SDF.

Esper also told "Face the Nation" host Margaret Brennan that over the weekend, the U.S. had learned that the Turks "likely intend to extend their attack further south than originally planned, and to the west." He added that "we also have learned in the last 24 hours that the ... SDF are looking to cut a deal, if you will, with the Syrians and the Russians to counterattack against the Turks in the north."
I am curious to know if these events in Syria are spontaneous or if Trump coordinated ahead of time with Erdogan and Putin to put an end to the Syrian conflict in this roundabout way. Trump, knowing that the ZOG bureaucracy would stop him if he were alone, maybe told Erdogan that he can invade northern Syria to clear out the Kurds and the US will use that as an excuse to withdraw to get out of Turkey's way (because we do know that they spoke to each other on the phone before and Erdogan asked him why the US is still in Syria). Then the Kurds will be pressured by the Turkish attack and US withdrawal to make a deal to reconcile with the Syrian government, which they had refused to do before, finally bringing all of Syria under President Assad's total control.

If that's true, considering the ongoing impeachment situation, it's also concerning that the ZOG-controlled GOP Senate leadership might try to get back at Trump in return for ending ZOG plans in Syria by using the threat of impeachment against him.
 

monsquid

Kingfisher
JERUSALEM — The abrupt withdrawal of U.S. troops from northeastern Syria and subsequent Turkish attacks on Kurdish fighters have badly rattled Israel’s national security experts, who decried President Trump’s action as a betrayal of loyal allies and evidence that Israel’s most vital supporter is a fickle friend at best.

Israeli officials reportedly had no warning of the withdrawal, which the White House announced Sunday after a call between Trump and Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

Other than expressing support for the Kurds, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has said little publicly about Trump’s move, which came just as Israel was marking the anniversary of the 1973 Arab-Israeli war. But Israeli media have been dominated by critics from all parts of Israel’s fractious political spectrum worried that American dependability is cracking at a volatile moment in the region.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...5b5d38-ec08-11e9-a329-7378fbfa1b63_story.html

Stop with the nonsense the Israelis didn't want the US to pullout of Syria. US presence in Syria was very small, but the symbolic presence deterred Erdogan from invading because even a single American casualty would've escalated beyond what he would've wanted. The Kurds have been our allies against ISIS. Even the Greet Berets that were deployed to the region are ashamed of what the US is doing.

Most importantly we must remember that the creation of ISIS was our own doing for better or worse. ISIS was created as result of George W. Bush allowing Paul Bremer's CPA to enact de-baathification. As a result almost 300,000 Iraqi Army, government, and affiliated citizens became jobless and without a purpose overnight. Having that many idle, frustrated, and angry men was throwing industrial fuel onto the smoldering flame of radicalism. Don't forget that despite Saddam's retarded gambit of pretending to have WMD's (mostly to maintain prestige in the region, maintain his own inner court control, and play brinkmanship with the US) he was maintaining an authoritarian but stable society. Once that floodgate was opened from de-baathification the whole region went aflame and we ended up with ISIS.

It was no surprise that ISIS was able to capture so much territory for a rogue Army because many of them were ex military and government. They knew how to organize, run supply chains, and conduct military operations. When this ISIS scourge spread to Syria we had to go in there to try and stem the dangers of radical islamism that was becoming a threat to American interests and US citizens all over the world.

Here we are today retrenching from the region when it serves our interests to remain there. Trump's policy is idiosyncratic because we are withdrawing from Syria while at the same sending more troops to Saudi Arabia to show support for our ally while deterring Iran. If we wanted to withdraw as a coherent strategy then we shouldn't be sending troops to Saudi Arabia either. In fact add in a bunch of other countries like Romania, Poland, Estonia, Australia, Philippines etc... in addition to the tens of thousands we've had in Japan, Germany, and Republic of Korea.

A good book to understand this kind of domestic politics driven, no strategy retrenchment is Robert Kagan's book the "The Jungle Grows Back." Even if you are totally for changing how we do business then take a look at some of Mearsheimer's offensive realism based theory of international relations, namely his proposal for offshore re balancing in light of near peer completion with China, Russia, and perhaps Iran and DPRK.

People need to get their head together that a near unanimous criticism of Syria withdrawal is not some crazy conspiracy but a serious misstep.
 
monsquid said:
Tytalus said:
I have not been paying attention to this issue and don't trust the news to report honestly why the US has withdrawn. Can anyone give me a rundown or point me to a link that explains what is REALLY going on?
What do you mean? Without analysis or conclusions these are the facts no matter what news outlet you go to.
  • US is pulling troops out of Northeast Syria. President Trump was told by Erdogan that he was going to do this on a phone call.
  • Erdogan is invading NE Syria to fight the Kurds, specifically the PKK. He also wants to control and influence this region.
  • Syrians in the NE don't want Turkish soldiers in their hometowns and have asked Assad for help. Assad is backed by Putin.
  • Bipartisan Senators have raised concerns on grounds that leaving the Kurds behind will make it harder to build local alliances in the future.
  • President Trump wants to levy sanctions on Turkey as a response. Some in Congress are supporting this.

You can draw your own conclusions.
Thank you for the info...

I am still trying to figure out what is really going on myself. I also dont trust the news sources either. I mean , how can i trust it when I am in turkey right now and (not near the syria border, im in a safe city) and a lot of the turkish people that i spoke to this week have asked me if i saw the american news if i can believe what they said.. They are very passionate and angry about the media spreading propaganda and spreading lies. Some of the happiest turks that i met suddenly became angry telling me the freaking media is lying.

so all i know is the turks are upset about the american news saying some type of lie or 2 that made the turks angry and that kurds are angry because american troops leaving syria. I met one kurdish guy here and all i understood from him is that he said it was not right to leave the kurds in syria.
 

Tytalus

Pelican
monsquid said:
Tytalus said:
I have not been paying attention to this issue and don't trust the news to report honestly why the US has withdrawn. Can anyone give me a rundown or point me to a link that explains what is REALLY going on?
What do you mean? Without analysis or conclusions these are the facts no matter what news outlet you go to.
  • US is pulling troops out of Northeast Syria. President Trump was told by Erdogan that he was going to do this on a phone call.
  • Erdogan is invading NE Syria to fight the Kurds, specifically the PKK. He also wants to control and influence this region.
  • Syrians in the NE don't want Turkish soldiers in their hometowns and have asked Assad for help. Assad is backed by Putin.
  • Bipartisan Senators have raised concerns on grounds that leaving the Kurds behind will make it harder to build local alliances in the future.
  • President Trump wants to levy sanctions on Turkey as a response. Some in Congress are supporting this.

You can draw your own conclusions.
This is "WHAT" is happening, what I am trying to figure out is the "WHY"?
 

Bienvenuto

Pelican
Gold Member
monsquid said:
JERUSALEM — The abrupt withdrawal of U.S. troops from northeastern Syria and subsequent Turkish attacks on Kurdish fighters have badly rattled Israel’s national security experts, who decried President Trump’s action as a betrayal of loyal allies and evidence that Israel’s most vital supporter is a fickle friend at best.

Israeli officials reportedly had no warning of the withdrawal, which the White House announced Sunday after a call between Trump and Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

Other than expressing support for the Kurds, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has said little publicly about Trump’s move, which came just as Israel was marking the anniversary of the 1973 Arab-Israeli war. But Israeli media have been dominated by critics from all parts of Israel’s fractious political spectrum worried that American dependability is cracking at a volatile moment in the region.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...5b5d38-ec08-11e9-a329-7378fbfa1b63_story.html

Stop with the nonsense the Israelis didn't want the US to pullout of Syria. US presence in Syria was very small, but the symbolic presence deterred Erdogan from invading because even a single American casualty would've escalated beyond what he would've wanted. The Kurds have been our allies against ISIS. Even the Greet Berets that were deployed to the region are ashamed of what the US is doing.

Most importantly we must remember that the creation of ISIS was our own doing for better or worse. ISIS was created as result of George W. Bush allowing Paul Bremer's CPA to enact de-baathification. As a result almost 300,000 Iraqi Army, government, and affiliated citizens became jobless and without a purpose overnight. Having that many idle, frustrated, and angry men was throwing industrial fuel onto the smoldering flame of radicalism. Don't forget that despite Saddam's retarded gambit of pretending to have WMD's (mostly to maintain prestige in the region, maintain his own inner court control, and play brinkmanship with the US) he was maintaining an authoritarian but stable society. Once that floodgate was opened from de-baathification the whole region went aflame and we ended up with ISIS.

It was no surprise that ISIS was able to capture so much territory for a rogue Army because many of them were ex military and government. They knew how to organize, run supply chains, and conduct military operations. When this ISIS scourge spread to Syria we had to go in there to try and stem the dangers of radical islamism that was becoming a threat to American interests and US citizens all over the world.

Here we are today retrenching from the region when it serves our interests to remain there. Trump's policy is idiosyncratic because we are withdrawing from Syria while at the same sending more troops to Saudi Arabia to show support for our ally while deterring Iran. If we wanted to withdraw as a coherent strategy then we shouldn't be sending troops to Saudi Arabia either. In fact add in a bunch of other countries like Romania, Poland, Estonia, Australia, Philippines etc... in addition to the tens of thousands we've had in Japan, Germany, and Republic of Korea.

A good book to understand this kind of domestic politics driven, no strategy retrenchment is Robert Kagan's book the "The Jungle Grows Back." Even if you are totally for changing how we do business then take a look at some of Mearsheimer's offensive realism based theory of international relations, namely his proposal for offshore re balancing in light of near peer completion with China, Russia, and perhaps Iran and DPRK.

People need to get their head together that a near unanimous criticism of Syria withdrawal is not some crazy conspiracy but a serious misstep.
So ..

Why did the Al Jazeera exodus take place?
What was the reasoning behind the withdrawal of Iraqi forces from the Saudi border?
Why was the lingua franca amongst front line Isis radio comms in English and not Arabic?
Which disease broke out in rebel held Syria, where did it originate from, and how in the hell did it get from there to Syria?
What happened to the Turkish border guards who documented themselves intercepting an arms shipment to Isis?
Where were the weapons from Benghazi sent to initially?
How is it possible for a bunch of armoured trucks to roll across an empty desert under a clear blue sky unchecked by the USAF or Nato air forces?
Was that Ba'athist supply chain expertise?
Who bought the oil from Isis held areas?
How was it possible that lines of oil trucks backed up in the desert went unmolested?
Why was the siege of Mosul pursued by the US in October 2016 when it was acknowledged that the Iraqi troops were not yet ready?
Why was the siege of Mosul done with an open avenue of escape to Syria left open at all times? In what world is that considered a 'siege'?
What surprise move did the 'besieged' ISIS fighters pull? And which country did that move originate from?
Why did Russia manage to smash Isis supply lines in a matter of weeks when the US and NATO had found it seemingly impossible to do in months and months?
Why did US supplied weapons repeatedly end up in ISIS hands?
What did western documentary crews encounter that hindered them filming in rebel held areas?
Where was Danny Nightingales last deployment and why did the UK government try to censor those details from coming out?
Why did John Kerry keep a straight face when trying to characterise Al-Farooq brigades as a moderate force?
What were NATO SF units doing conducting training and embedded missions in ISIS held areas?
Why did Barack Obama's administration nix circa 70% of USAF requested air-strikes on ISIS targets?

In what world is the criticism of Trump's withdrawal now 'unanimous'?
If Israel didn't want to stop the US withdrawal.. then what DID they want?

"It was no surprise that ISIS was able to capture so much territory for a rogue Army because many of them were ex military and government. They knew how to organize, run supply chains, and conduct military operations."

With NO AIR ARM.. in a FRICKING DESERT, and yet, UNSTOPPABLE.
Jesus Christ, we need to hire these guys to invade North Korea for us.

"When this ISIS scourge spread to Syria we had to go in there to try and stem the dangers."

But..why do such a deliberately ineffective job of it?
Why not give the Russians free rein to smash ISIS? They already had a treaty with Syria to guarantee their security.

Was the role of the Israelis in this entirely benign?

I think that there may be a job for you at CNN..
 

monsquid

Kingfisher
Bienvenuto said:
monsquid said:
JERUSALEM — The abrupt withdrawal of U.S. troops from northeastern Syria and subsequent Turkish attacks on Kurdish fighters have badly rattled Israel’s national security experts, who decried President Trump’s action as a betrayal of loyal allies and evidence that Israel’s most vital supporter is a fickle friend at best.

Israeli officials reportedly had no warning of the withdrawal, which the White House announced Sunday after a call between Trump and Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

Other than expressing support for the Kurds, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has said little publicly about Trump’s move, which came just as Israel was marking the anniversary of the 1973 Arab-Israeli war. But Israeli media have been dominated by critics from all parts of Israel’s fractious political spectrum worried that American dependability is cracking at a volatile moment in the region.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...5b5d38-ec08-11e9-a329-7378fbfa1b63_story.html

Stop with the nonsense the Israelis didn't want the US to pullout of Syria. US presence in Syria was very small, but the symbolic presence deterred Erdogan from invading because even a single American casualty would've escalated beyond what he would've wanted. The Kurds have been our allies against ISIS. Even the Greet Berets that were deployed to the region are ashamed of what the US is doing.

Most importantly we must remember that the creation of ISIS was our own doing for better or worse. ISIS was created as result of George W. Bush allowing Paul Bremer's CPA to enact de-baathification. As a result almost 300,000 Iraqi Army, government, and affiliated citizens became jobless and without a purpose overnight. Having that many idle, frustrated, and angry men was throwing industrial fuel onto the smoldering flame of radicalism. Don't forget that despite Saddam's retarded gambit of pretending to have WMD's (mostly to maintain prestige in the region, maintain his own inner court control, and play brinkmanship with the US) he was maintaining an authoritarian but stable society. Once that floodgate was opened from de-baathification the whole region went aflame and we ended up with ISIS.

It was no surprise that ISIS was able to capture so much territory for a rogue Army because many of them were ex military and government. They knew how to organize, run supply chains, and conduct military operations. When this ISIS scourge spread to Syria we had to go in there to try and stem the dangers of radical islamism that was becoming a threat to American interests and US citizens all over the world.

Here we are today retrenching from the region when it serves our interests to remain there. Trump's policy is idiosyncratic because we are withdrawing from Syria while at the same sending more troops to Saudi Arabia to show support for our ally while deterring Iran. If we wanted to withdraw as a coherent strategy then we shouldn't be sending troops to Saudi Arabia either. In fact add in a bunch of other countries like Romania, Poland, Estonia, Australia, Philippines etc... in addition to the tens of thousands we've had in Japan, Germany, and Republic of Korea.

A good book to understand this kind of domestic politics driven, no strategy retrenchment is Robert Kagan's book the "The Jungle Grows Back." Even if you are totally for changing how we do business then take a look at some of Mearsheimer's offensive realism based theory of international relations, namely his proposal for offshore re balancing in light of near peer completion with China, Russia, and perhaps Iran and DPRK.

People need to get their head together that a near unanimous criticism of Syria withdrawal is not some crazy conspiracy but a serious misstep.
So ..

Why did the Al Jazeera exodus take place?
What was the reasoning behind the withdrawal of Iraqi forces from the Saudi border?
Why was the lingua franca amongst front line Isis radio comms in English and not Arabic?
Which disease broke out in rebel held Syria, where did it originate from, and how in the hell did it get from there to Syria?
What happened to the Turkish border guards who documented themselves intercepting an arms shipment to Isis?
Where were the weapons from Benghazi sent to initially?
How is it possible for a bunch of armoured trucks to roll across an empty desert under a clear blue sky unchecked by the USAF or Nato air forces?
Was that Ba'athist supply chain expertise?
Who bought the oil from Isis held areas?
How was it possible that lines of oil trucks backed up in the desert went unmolested?
Why was the siege of Mosul pursued by the US in October 2016 when it was acknowledged that the Iraqi troops were not yet ready?
Why was the siege of Mosul done with an open avenue of escape to Syria left open at all times? In what world is that considered a 'siege'?
What surprise move did the 'besieged' ISIS fighters pull? And which country did that move originate from?
Why did Russia manage to smash Isis supply lines in a matter of weeks when the US and NATO had found it seemingly impossible to do in months and months?
Why did US supplied weapons repeatedly end up in ISIS hands?
What did western documentary crews encounter that hindered them filming in rebel held areas?
Where was Danny Nightingales last deployment and why did the UK government try to censor those details from coming out?
Why did John Kerry keep a straight face when trying to characterise Al-Farooq brigades as a moderate force?
What were NATO SF units doing conducting training and embedded missions in ISIS held areas?
Why did Barack Obama's administration nix circa 70% of USAF requested air-strikes on ISIS targets?

In what world is the criticism of Trump's withdrawal now 'unanimous'?
If Israel didn't want to stop the US withdrawal.. then what DID they want?

"It was no surprise that ISIS was able to capture so much territory for a rogue Army because many of them were ex military and government. They knew how to organize, run supply chains, and conduct military operations."

With NO AIR ARM.. in a FRICKING DESERT, and yet, UNSTOPPABLE.
Jesus Christ, we need to hire these guys to invade North Korea for us.

"When this ISIS scourge spread to Syria we had to go in there to try and stem the dangers."

But..why do such a deliberately ineffective job of it?
Why not give the Russians free rein to smash ISIS? They already had a treaty with Syria to guarantee their security.

Was the role of the Israelis in this entirely benign?

I think that there may be a job for you at CNN..
If there's a job for me at CNN please let me know! And also how much it pays. I just refuse to believe in these ridiculous conspiracies. It's easy to ask smart sounding question to try and create the impression of something being there when there isn't. Short of a full mobilization occupation with millions of boots on deck you know there's no way to control a region. Especially one as isolated and hostile as Syria or Iraq.

The reality is Russian, Turkish, Syrian, Iranian, Iraqi, Israeli, and US governments are vying for regional influence. Are we going to fight for our interests or not? Oil is a factor for sure but so are some of the ideals that we stand for.
 

Bienvenuto

Pelican
Gold Member
monsquid said:
I just refuse to believe in these ridiculous conspiracies.
It's easy to ask smart sounding question to try and create the impression of something being there when there isn't.
Those questions have specific answers though..
Short of a full mobilization occupation with millions of boots on deck you know there's no way to control a region. Especially one as isolated and hostile as Syria or Iraq.

The reality is Russian, Turkish, Syrian, Iranian, Iraqi, Israeli, and US governments are vying for regional influence. Are we going to fight for our interests or not? Oil is a factor for sure but so are some of the ideals that we stand for.
CNN is too milque-toast for you.
Suggest you are channeling John McCain's ghost.
Personally I welcome your dissenting opinions.

A bit of variety of thought and analysis is a good thing.
 

Leonard D Neubache

Owl
Gold Member
monsquid said:
...

If there's a job for me at CNN please let me know! And also how much it pays. I just refuse to believe in these ridiculous conspiracies. It's easy to ask smart sounding question to try and create the impression of something being there when there isn't. Short of a full mobilization occupation with millions of boots on deck you know there's no way to control a region. Especially one as isolated and hostile as Syria or Iraq.

The reality is Russian, Turkish, Syrian, Iranian, Iraqi, Israeli, and US governments are vying for regional influence. Are we going to fight for our interests or not? Oil is a factor for sure but so are some of the ideals that we stand for.
You're honestly wasting your time peddling this neo-con trash on a forum with an average IQ this high.

All of the questions Bien asked were highly relevant and you have no answers for any of them. ISIS being a mercenary military arm of the US/Israeli oligarchy is beyond conspiracy theory. It's conspiracy fact, and only the most brainwashed or disinterested individuals still believe the NPC narrative that these pirate-flag waving muppets were capable of creating that much anarchy under their own steam.

"Ideals we stand for"?

:laugh:

If your mighty military can't take out a bunch of muppets like ISIS then kindly get your feckless troops out of the way so that Russia can get the job done before another few thousand men, women and children are massacred.
 

911

Peacock
Gold Member
Bienvenuto said:
monsquid said:
I just refuse to believe in these ridiculous conspiracies.
It's easy to ask smart sounding question to try and create the impression of something being there when there isn't.
Those questions have specific answers though..
Short of a full mobilization occupation with millions of boots on deck you know there's no way to control a region. Especially one as isolated and hostile as Syria or Iraq.

The reality is Russian, Turkish, Syrian, Iranian, Iraqi, Israeli, and US governments are vying for regional influence. Are we going to fight for our interests or not? Oil is a factor for sure but so are some of the ideals that we stand for.
CNN is too milque-toast for you.
Suggest you are channeling John McCain's ghost.
Personally I welcome your dissenting opinions.

A bit of variety of thought and analysis is a good thing.
Monsquid's opinions on Syria are so far from reality that refuting them is more of a basic rhetorical exercise than an intellectual exchange. It kind of reminds me of the long discussion I've had with Mercenary about flat earth.

Nevertheless it's important to address his basic points, because those are pretty common misconceptions brought about by 20-30 years of a very flawed official narrative. I will address these misconceptions later this week.
 

It_is_my_time

Hummingbird
Leonard D Neubache said:
monsquid said:
...

If there's a job for me at CNN please let me know! And also how much it pays. I just refuse to believe in these ridiculous conspiracies. It's easy to ask smart sounding question to try and create the impression of something being there when there isn't. Short of a full mobilization occupation with millions of boots on deck you know there's no way to control a region. Especially one as isolated and hostile as Syria or Iraq.

The reality is Russian, Turkish, Syrian, Iranian, Iraqi, Israeli, and US governments are vying for regional influence. Are we going to fight for our interests or not? Oil is a factor for sure but so are some of the ideals that we stand for.
You're honestly wasting your time peddling this neo-con trash on a forum with an average IQ this high.

All of the questions Bien asked were highly relevant and you have no answers for any of them. ISIS being a mercenary military arm of the US/Israeli oligarchy is beyond conspiracy theory. It's conspiracy fact, and only the most brainwashed or disinterested individuals still believe the NPC narrative that these pirate-flag waving muppets were capable of creating that much anarchy under their own steam.

"Ideals we stand for"?

:laugh:

If your mighty military can't take out a bunch of muppets like ISIS then kindly get your feckless troops out of the way so that Russia can get the job done before another few thousand men, women and children are massacred.
The CIA admitted they had been funding ISIS in 2017 and Trump cut off the funding of the CIA to ISIS. Afterwards ISIS collapsed in the region. If anyone remembers, early in Trump's presidency ISIS controlled a large swath of land.

Israel admitted they treat injured ISIS soldiers at their hospitals. Israel's head of department of defense admitted that ISIS was helpful in Israel's interests. ISIS captured soldiers have Israel weapons. And once ISIS attacked an Israel post and immediately withdrew when they realized who they were attacking and apologized for it.

These are just reported and recorded facts over the last few years. The Neo-Con lie about "we must defeat ISIS" no longer flies.
 

Belgrano

Ostrich
Gold Member
monsquid said:
A good book to understand this kind of domestic politics driven, no strategy retrenchment is Robert Kagan's book the "The Jungle Grows Back." Even if you are totally for changing how we do business then take a look at some of Mearsheimer's offensive realism based theory of international relations, namely his proposal for offshore re balancing in light of near peer completion with China, Russia, and perhaps Iran and DPRK.
(((Robert Kagan))), really?

You couldn't come up with a bigger neo-Cohen?

Robert Kagan is a neoconservative American historian and foreign-policy commentator. Kagan, however prefers the term "liberal interventionist" to describe himself.

A co-founder of the neoconservative Project for the New American Century, he is a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution and a member of the Council on Foreign Relations.

In 1997, Kagan co-founded the now-defunct neoconservative think tank Project for the New American Century with William Kristol.

Kagan was a Senior Associate with the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, he was appointed senior fellow at the Brookings Institution in September 2010, he is also a member of the board of directors for the neoconservative think tank The Foreign Policy Initiative (FPI).

During the 2008 presidential campaign he served as foreign policy advisor to John McCain.

Since 2011, Kagan has also served on the 25-member State Department's Foreign Affairs Policy Board under Secretaries of State Hillary Clinton and John Kerry.

Andrew Bacevich referred to Kagan as "the chief neoconservative foreign-policy theorist" in reviewing Kagan's book The Return of History and the End of Dreams.

In February 2016, Kagan publicly left the Republican party and endorsed Democrat Hillary Clinton for president.

Kagan called Trump a "Frankenstein monster" and also compared him to Napoleon.

In May 2016, Kagan wrote an opinion piece in The Washington Post regarding Trump's campaign entitled "This Is How Fascism Comes to America".

Kagan has said that "all Republican foreign policy professionals are anti-Trump."
On top of that he's also married to deep state asset and Obama operative Victoria "Fuck the EU" Nuland, of Maidan fame.

Just a lovely guy!
 

RIslander

Hummingbird
911 said:
I watched some of her work and she is quite intelligent and informed. She may be speaking for herself or she may be parroting what others tell her but either way shes right on the mark.

She's also cute in an exotic sort of way.
 
Putin and Erdogan met in Russia for several hours of talks about Syria and came to an agreement that puts an end to the Turkish military offensive against the Kurds even beyond the five day ceasefire. The zone that must be cleared of Kurds has increased to 30 kilometers from the Turkish border, and the area along this part of the Turkish-Syrian border will be jointly patrolled by Syrian, Russian, and Turkish troops, all the way up to the Iraqi border in the east. The 1998 Adana agreement between Syria and Turkey, which allows Turkey to launch operations up to five kilometers into Syrian territory to attack the PKK and other Kurdish terrorists that launch attacks into Turkey from Syrian land, will also be renewed. Effectively Turkey has promised to respect Syrian sovereignty.

The Turks also emphasized that this will allow millions of Syrian refugees inside of Turkey to return to northern Syria. It's amazing to see the EU condemning Turkey's move even though they should be supporting these efforts to stabilize Syria, at least one would think if they did not know of what is really the agenda.

Putin and Erdogan reached this agreement, and Putin has also told Assad, who fully supports the deal.

This implementation will leave the Idlib province in northwestern Syria as the only part of the Syrian-Turkish border that the government doesn't control, as it is occupied by various jihadist groups who have been supported by Turkey. Assad in fact is visiting the front line in Idlib right now, and this development might mean a new Syrian offensive to liberate the rest of Idlib and restore full Syrian control over northern Syria.

CNN ridiculously wrote in the headline of its article about this deal "The US is the biggest loser." Israel and globohomo are the biggest losers, to be more precise.

Even if the deep state tries to stop the US withdrawal it seems large areas of northeastern Syria previously controlled by the Kurds have already been effectively given up to Turkish-Russian-Syrian forces, and it will be interesting to see if Syria retakes the entirety of the US/Kurdish/SDF occupied zone. But given recent announcements it seems that the US will try to hold on to the Kurdish-controlled oil fields east of the Euphrates so deprive President Assad's government of this resource for rebuilding Syria. Still, this development is a big geopolitical success for Syria and Russia.
 
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