The Syria conflict thread

Belgrano

Ostrich
Gold Member
https://wikileaks.org/clinton-emails/emailid/18328

Date: 2001-01-01 03:00 Subject: NEW IRAN AND SYRIA 2.DOC

UNCLASSIFIED U.S. Department of State Case No. F-2014-20439 Doc No. C05794498

Date: 11/30/2015

The best way to help Israel deal with Iran's growing nuclear capability is to help the people of
Syria overthrow the regime of Bashar Assad.


Negotiations to limit Iran's nuclear program will not solve Israel's security dilemma. Nor will
they stop Iran from improving the crucial part of any nuclear weapons program — the capability
to enrich uranium. At best, the talks between the world's major powers and Iran that began in
Istanbul this April and will continue in Baghdad in May will enable Israel to postpone by a few
months a decision whether to launch an attack on Iran that could provoke a major Mideast war.

Iran's nuclear program and Syria's civil war may seem unconnected, but they are. For Israeli
leaders, the real threat from a nuclear-armed Iran is not the prospect of an insane Iranian leader
launching an unprovoked Iranian nuclear attack on Israel that would lead to the annihilation of
both countries. What Israeli military leaders really worry about -- but cannot talk about -- is
losing their nuclear monopoly.
An Iranian nuclear weapons capability would not only end that
nuclear monopoly but could also prompt other adversaries, like Saudi Arabia and Egypt, to go
nuclear as well. The result would be a precarious nuclear balance in which Israel could not
respond to provocations with conventional military strikes on Syria and Lebanon, as it can today.

If Iran were to reach the threshold of a nuclear weapons state, Tehran would find it much easier
to call on its allies in Syria and Hezbollah to strike Israel, knowing that its nuclear weapons
would serve as a deterrent to Israel responding against Iran itself.

Back to Syria. It is the strategic relationship between Iran and the regime of Bashar Assad in
Syria that makes it possible for Iran to undermine Israel's security — not through a direct attack,
which in the thirty years of hostility between Iran and Israel has never occurred, but through its
proxies in Lebanon, like Hezbollah, that are sustained, armed and trained by Iran via Syria. The
end of the Assad regime would end this dangerous alliance. Israel's leadership understands well
why defeating Assad is now in its interests.
Speaking on CNN's Amanpour show last week,
Defense Minister Ehud Barak argued that "the toppling down of Assad will be a major blow to
the radical axis, major blow to Iran.... It's the only kind of outpost of the Iranian influence in the
Arab world...and it will weaken dramatically both Hezbollah in Lebanon and Hamas and Islamic
Jihad in Gaza."

Bringing down Assad would not only be a massive boon to Israel's security, it would also ease
Israel's understandable fear of losing its nuclear monopoly.
Then, Israel and the United States
might be able to develop a common view of when the Iranian program is so dangerous that
military action could be warranted. Right now, it is the combination of Iran's strategic alliance
with Syria and the steady progress in Iran's nuclear enrichment program that has led Israeli
leaders to contemplate a surprise attack — if necessary over the objections of Washington. With
Assad gone, and Iran no longer able to threaten Israel through its, proxies, it is possible that the
United States and Israel can agree on red lines for when Iran's program has crossed an
unacceptable threshold. In short, the White House can ease the tension that has developed with
Israel over Iran by doing the right thing in Syria.


The rebellion in Syria has now lasted more than a year. The opposition is not going away, nor is
the regime going to accept a diplomatic solution from the outside. With his life and his family at
risk, only the threat or use of force will change the Syrian dictator Bashar Assad's mind.

The Obama administration has been understandably wary of engaging in an air operation in
Syria like the one conducted in Libya for three main reasons. Unlike the Libyan opposition
forces, the Syrian rebels are not unified and do not hold territory. The Arab League has not
called for outside military intervention as it did in Libya. And the Russians are opposed.

Libya was an easier case. But other than the laudable purpose of saving Libyan civilians from
likely attacks by Qaddafi's regime, the Libyan operation had no long-lasting consequences for
the region. Syria is harder. But success in Syria would be a transformative event for the Middle
East. Not only would another ruthless dictator succumb to mass opposition on the streets, but the
region would be changed for the better as Iran would no longer have a foothold in the Middle
East from which to threaten Israel and undermine stability in the region.

Unlike in Libya, a successful intervention in Syria would require substantial diplomatic and
military leadership from the United States. Washington should start by expressing its
willingness to work with regional allies like Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Qatar to organize, train
and arm Syrian rebel forces. The announcement of such a decision would, by itself, likely cause
substantial defections from the Syrian military. Then, using territory in Turkey and possibly
Jordan, U.S. diplomats and Pentagon officials can start strengthening the opposition.
It will take
time. But the rebellion is going to go on for a long time, with or without U.S. involvement.

The second step is to develop international support for a coalition air operation. Russia will
never support such a mission, so there is no point operating through the UN Security Council.
Some argue that U.S. involvement risks a wider war with Russia.
But the Kosovo example
shows otherwise. In that case, Russia had genuine ethnic and political ties to the Serbs, which
don't exist between Russia and Syria, and even then Russia did little more than complain.
Russian officials have already acknowledged they won't stand in the way if intervention comes.

Arming the Syrian rebels and using western air power to ground Syrian helicopters and
airplanes is a low-cost high payoff approach.
As long as Washington's political leaders stay firm
that no U.S. ground troops will be deployed, as they did in both Kosovo and Libya, the costs to
the United States will be limited. Victory may not come quickly or easily, but it will come. And
the payoff will be substantial. Iran would be strategically isolated, unable to exert its influence
in the Middle East. The resulting regime in Syria will see the United States as a friend, not an
enemy. Washington would gain substantial recognition as fighting for the people in the Arab
world, not the corrupt regimes. For Israel, the rationale for a bolt from the blue attack on Iran's
nuclear facilities would be eased. And a new Syrian regime might well be open to early action
on the frozen peace talks with Israel. Hezbollah in Lebanon would be cut off from its Iranian
sponsor since Syria would no longer be a transit point for Iranian training, assistance and
missiles. All these strategic benefits and the prospect of saving thousands of civilians from
murder at the hands of the Assad regime (10,000 have already been killed in this first year of
civil war).

With the veil of fear lifted from the Syrian people, they seem determined to fight for their
freedom. America can and should help them — and by doing so help Israel and help reduce the
risk of a wider war.
 
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Johnnyvee

Pelican
Making money for big oil companies at least, and driving new hoards of migrants into Europe as well. It`s not hard to tell where this is going, and it was not hard to predict either of course. The only question is whether there will be a full on war with Iran this time around. I think they will keep it below that threshold though, and we will see destabilization of various regions in the middle-east as usual. Very concerning though!
 

M'bare

Woodpecker
Gold Member
Considering our political, corporate, media and financial elite seem to be at the behest of China, any thoughts to this resurgence having something to do with that?

Sure we're doing Israels bidding, etc. They want a gas pipeline to go through Syria which Russia and Syria are opposed to.

If I were China, I'd want to get the U.S. to take on and weaken the Russians, so China doesn't have to. We all know we'd be a loser even if we "won." And how convenient for China. China would love to pick up the pieces and be the world super power after the dust settles. The middle east is just a bit of collateral damage as it usually is for these globalist.
 

estraudi

Pelican
Gold Member
Considering our political, corporate, media and financial elite seem to be at the behest of China, any thoughts to this resurgence having something to do with that?

Sure we're doing Israels bidding, etc. They want a gas pipeline to go through Syria which Russia and Syria are opposed to.

If I were China, I'd want to get the U.S. to take on and weaken the Russians, so China doesn't have to. We all know we'd be a loser even if we "won." And how convenient for China. China would love to pick up the pieces and be the world super power after the dust settles. The middle east is just a bit of collateral damage as it usually is for these globalist.
ME is ALWAYS the flimsy pretext for more endless wars.
There is no rational explanation other than globalist domination at the expense of all countries involved.
WW2 all over again. Send all the good men to die off in pointless wars, leaving behind the feminists, midgets and homosexuals to be taken over by corporate raiders, globalism x10 and predatory countries. Which is Rome all over again.

I know this is a forum for thoughtful discussion but geez men, this playbook is so overplayed and well known that all we can really say is....told you so.

Discussing the logic behind this is irrelevant, pushing against it is what's more important and yet nobody is pushing back.
How can we?
 

911

Peacock
Gold Member
China doesn't really care, they are going to become twice the size of the US economy within 10-20 years, they don't need wars or evil (((machinations))) for that, they can just continue to invest in infrastructure and new markets around the world, they are on a path where their economic dominance is inevitable unless they get bogged down into a major war, so it is in their interest to avoid it.

They are also now depending on Russia, and vice-versa. Neocons will never, ever see an independent Orthodox Christian Russia as anything but a tribal archenemy, it is ingrained in their culture with over a millennium of strife between the Khazars/Ashkenazis and the Russian/EE nations. This pretty much seals the Russia-China alliance.

The real goal in Syria here is Greater Israel, they want to fully annex the Golan Heights and take over a buffer zone in the south of Syria. Ultimately the long term multi-generational goal is to take over the land between the Euphrates and the Nile, which is what the two blue bands in the Israeli flag symbolize. So the first step here is to destroy and balkanize the Syrian and Iraqi states. This has been laid out in a white paper recommendation from an Israeli military think tank all the way back in 1982, the Oded Yinon Plan:

 

911

Peacock
Gold Member
ME is ALWAYS the flimsy pretext for more endless wars.
There is no rational explanation other than globalist domination at the expense of all countries involved.
WW2 all over again. Send all the good men to die off in pointless wars, leaving behind the feminists, midgets and homosexuals to be taken over by corporate raiders, globalism x10 and predatory countries. Which is Rome all over again.

I know this is a forum for thoughtful discussion but geez men, this playbook is so overplayed and well known that all we can really say is....told you so.

Discussing the logic behind this is irrelevant, pushing against it is what's more important and yet nobody is pushing back.
How can we?

They don't need giant world wars to cull the best of their young men any more, when they can get them on a mRNA vaccine program with up to 3 shots per year. They can always arm local jihadis to destabilize the region and have them do their bidding.

This is only going to end when the Fed system ends, at this point they are printing money with no regards to debt or inflation. This is probably going to happen in the next decade, they can't destroy the economy on one hand and keep the US$ as the global fiat currency on the other...
 

estraudi

Pelican
Gold Member
This is only going to end when the Fed system ends, at this point they are printing money with no regards to debt or inflation. This is probably going to happen in the next decade, they can't destroy the economy on one hand and keep the US$ as the global fiat currency on the other...
What I love about our country is the ability to own so much land and or have whole communities that still have trust enough to HAVE the whole world crumble around them and they still will just keep chugging along as usual before decadence had set in. The whole "pull yourself up from your boot straps" mentality and capability.
We just aren't choosing to live that way yet.
The world in which a frontier is being conquered and the crumbling of an empire aren't that much different. If that makes sense.
I relish the return to such a frontier world not for nostalgic purposes but for human endurance and natural way of living.
But then we also don't need to have decadence to also be a future space exploring society. Those 2 aren't mutually exclusive, but we live that way, sadly.
 

budoslavic

Owl
Gold Member
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Guriko

Kingfisher
Gold Member

A man wearing a mask in such a manner that it literally looks like a face-diaper who is standing behind someone who looks like a reptile who is not comfortable in his synthetic skin.

It's all so bloody tiresome. Pray, detach, get active in your local communities and try to find like-minded men. This is going to be a long Spiritual War - but we've God on our side, so the only thing we have to fear is fear itself.
 
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