The Virginia thread
- Thread starter infowarrior1
- Start date
RE: Gun confiscation bill proposed in Virginia
Those two things are barely even related. We have secret ballots in the USA, so there is very little personal risk voting for Trump or anyone else, while it is not even safe to wear a MAGA hat now, so just because you voted Trump does not mean you will defend the second amendment when there are consequences.
As I said above, I doubt you could find even 1 (one) officer in the entire US military who would disobey any order for moral reasons, and although there are one or two enlisted here and there who would disobey, usually guys in their first year or two, they are extremely rare and not organized. They will be court-martialed and replaced.
I just spoke with a former Army combat vet who was an early member of the Oathkeepers and he said the same. The US military is about obedience and that is all.
[email protected] said:
Those two things are barely even related. We have secret ballots in the USA, so there is very little personal risk voting for Trump or anyone else, while it is not even safe to wear a MAGA hat now, so just because you voted Trump does not mean you will defend the second amendment when there are consequences.
As I said above, I doubt you could find even 1 (one) officer in the entire US military who would disobey any order for moral reasons, and although there are one or two enlisted here and there who would disobey, usually guys in their first year or two, they are extremely rare and not organized. They will be court-martialed and replaced.
I just spoke with a former Army combat vet who was an early member of the Oathkeepers and he said the same. The US military is about obedience and that is all.
RE: Gun confiscation bill proposed in Virginia
There's a lot of oathkeepers in the police forces too. That doesn't stop them from giving the jackboot treatment to some dude they find with an unregistered pistol.
Anyone got any heartwarming stories about US cops who find an illegal firearm but tell the owner "don't worry, I took an oath, I'm not enforcing any unconstitutional gun laws"?
Come on. This oathkeeper stuff is nonsense. It's cognitive dissonance writ large enough to allow for mass delusion status.
There's a lot of oathkeepers in the police forces too. That doesn't stop them from giving the jackboot treatment to some dude they find with an unregistered pistol.
Anyone got any heartwarming stories about US cops who find an illegal firearm but tell the owner "don't worry, I took an oath, I'm not enforcing any unconstitutional gun laws"?
Come on. This oathkeeper stuff is nonsense. It's cognitive dissonance writ large enough to allow for mass delusion status.
RE: Gun confiscation bill proposed in Virginia
That's what the British said when they fought the revolutionaries, and tried to occupy Afghanistan. What the Russians said when they invaded Afghanistan. What the Americans said when they invaded Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq.
It's always extraordinarily difficult to counter guerilla tactics. It's even harder when you're fighting against a determined enemy fighting for an ideological cause, even for. E1well trained and equipped professional armies who are just doing their job.
HermeticAlly said:
That's what the British said when they fought the revolutionaries, and tried to occupy Afghanistan. What the Russians said when they invaded Afghanistan. What the Americans said when they invaded Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq.
It's always extraordinarily difficult to counter guerilla tactics. It's even harder when you're fighting against a determined enemy fighting for an ideological cause, even for. E1well trained and equipped professional armies who are just doing their job.
Thomas Jackson
Woodpecker
RE: Gun confiscation bill proposed in Virginia
I agree that the Generals are mostly politically correct yes men, as that's a requirement to get to that level. But I strongly disagree that all the midlevel officers are.
I have heard the West Point cadre is among the worst though from my friends who are in.
Tom Slick said:
I agree that the Generals are mostly politically correct yes men, as that's a requirement to get to that level. But I strongly disagree that all the midlevel officers are.
I have heard the West Point cadre is among the worst though from my friends who are in.
Easy_C
Peacock
RE: Gun confiscation bill proposed in Virginia
I think Mark is being optimistic another active duty.
That said I have been in both sides and the Guard units generally ARE comprised of these redneck types who collect AR15s. Getting them to actually enforce a gun ban in their own state would be difficult because quite frequently they’re the people the law is targeted at.
Even said though these things are difficult to predict. It’s one thing to take a gun from one dude, something else entirely to tell them to go drive tanks through a town that you’ve got friends and family in.
You misunderstand.
Part of it is that people would stop carrying them but that’s also not as true as you believe. As long as the infrastructure stays turned out it doesn’t actually stop communication.
I think Mark is being optimistic another active duty.
That said I have been in both sides and the Guard units generally ARE comprised of these redneck types who collect AR15s. Getting them to actually enforce a gun ban in their own state would be difficult because quite frequently they’re the people the law is targeted at.
Even said though these things are difficult to predict. It’s one thing to take a gun from one dude, something else entirely to tell them to go drive tanks through a town that you’ve got friends and family in.
You misunderstand.
Part of it is that people would stop carrying them but that’s also not as true as you believe. As long as the infrastructure stays turned out it doesn’t actually stop communication.
SlickyBoy
Hummingbird
RE: Gun confiscation bill proposed in Virginia
Fixed it for ya. The officer oath is slightly different and does not contain the word "obey," which is supposed to mean they don't blindly follow orders and can have a backbone if they think something isn't right. In practice, it often rarely means anything to officers above the rank of O3.
The Black Knight said:
Fixed it for ya. The officer oath is slightly different and does not contain the word "obey," which is supposed to mean they don't blindly follow orders and can have a backbone if they think something isn't right. In practice, it often rarely means anything to officers above the rank of O3.
RE: Gun confiscation bill proposed in Virginia
Idk if anybody knows the process of becoming an officer in the military but you have to have a bachelors degree. Which means at least 4 yrs of the indoctrination that members on this forum are all too aware of... think about that.
I stopped reading vox days stuff a while back but there was one piece that was basically letters from guys going through OCS (officer candidate school) confirming the indoctrination has taken effect with things like - inclusion of LGBT, special preferences to POCs because racism, women can do men’s jobs etc... and these are the people who are leading our armies. So if whatever happens happens, I think it’s safe to assume they’re going to be the ones in charge (for the most part).
And for the enlisted, the police officers, or general population etc.. who would fight back, you can’t dissent against the system and then expect to show back up to work Monday morning like you attended a Me-Too protest Friday afternoon. There’s going to be almost permanent and unalterable repercussions to each individuals lives, made all the more difficult if you have a family or dependents to support.
Idk if anybody knows the process of becoming an officer in the military but you have to have a bachelors degree. Which means at least 4 yrs of the indoctrination that members on this forum are all too aware of... think about that.
I stopped reading vox days stuff a while back but there was one piece that was basically letters from guys going through OCS (officer candidate school) confirming the indoctrination has taken effect with things like - inclusion of LGBT, special preferences to POCs because racism, women can do men’s jobs etc... and these are the people who are leading our armies. So if whatever happens happens, I think it’s safe to assume they’re going to be the ones in charge (for the most part).
And for the enlisted, the police officers, or general population etc.. who would fight back, you can’t dissent against the system and then expect to show back up to work Monday morning like you attended a Me-Too protest Friday afternoon. There’s going to be almost permanent and unalterable repercussions to each individuals lives, made all the more difficult if you have a family or dependents to support.
jeffreyjerpp
Kingfisher
RE: Gun confiscation bill proposed in Virginia
I hate to tell you, but there is absolutely no point in "stocking up" firearms or ammo or whatever for an "offsite location".
The left has already won this battle, in fact they won it a long time ago, and whether the patriots realize it or not they are utterly, hopelessly cornered.
In fact, the left has absolutely no need, and I would argue no desire, for some civil war level physical confrontation. Why would they? Thanks to demographic changes, Democrats are guaranteed to win the Presidency from 2024 onwards. By simply introducing costly frictions into the day-to-day lives of gun owners and vocal Patriots, they can silence dissent until they completely dominate the government on all levels.
What do I mean by "costly frictions"? Some examples:
-Banks and credit card companies will cancel the accounts of all gun owners.
-Red flag and hate speech laws will effectively nullify the first and second amendments, vocal gun owners and Patriots will be fined or jailed.
-Immediate banning from all social media accounts.
-Employment black lists.
-Kids taken away by child protective services
...and so on and so forth.
The average Patriot cannot suffer any one of the above punishments, let alone multiple. When faced with a choice of putting food on the table vs. going to prison and losing their job, the vast majority will stand down.
Think about it: the left dominates the Deep State, big tech, the higher ranks of the military, the police forces in big cities, Academia, the media, and even financial institutions. They are able to effectively harass and obstruct the President of the United States, and there isn't much he can do about it.
Any remaining vocal opposition will likely be mostly Feds and lunatics. Not a winning team.
Also, on the off chance Patriots mounted some kind of guerilla insurgency, or if a couple state governments seriously attempted secession, it would merely guarantee that the USA would fall into extreme dysfunction, and basically anarcho-tyranny, as the globalist institutions had the perfect excuse to ruthlessly clamp down on their opponents. Also, there would be an apocalyptic economic collapse, with possible interruptions in food supplies. Basically unbelievable violence and chaos.
Alternatively, you can start planning to leave the country now, so that when crazed socialists inevitably take power in the next decade, you have somewhere you can go. Historically, the people who stuck around when Mao, Stalin, Hitler etc. came to power didn't do to well. Sometimes the only way to win the game is not play, and move to Asia or Eastern Europe, or possibly Panama city.
Leonard D Neubache said:
I hate to tell you, but there is absolutely no point in "stocking up" firearms or ammo or whatever for an "offsite location".
The left has already won this battle, in fact they won it a long time ago, and whether the patriots realize it or not they are utterly, hopelessly cornered.
In fact, the left has absolutely no need, and I would argue no desire, for some civil war level physical confrontation. Why would they? Thanks to demographic changes, Democrats are guaranteed to win the Presidency from 2024 onwards. By simply introducing costly frictions into the day-to-day lives of gun owners and vocal Patriots, they can silence dissent until they completely dominate the government on all levels.
What do I mean by "costly frictions"? Some examples:
-Banks and credit card companies will cancel the accounts of all gun owners.
-Red flag and hate speech laws will effectively nullify the first and second amendments, vocal gun owners and Patriots will be fined or jailed.
-Immediate banning from all social media accounts.
-Employment black lists.
-Kids taken away by child protective services
...and so on and so forth.
The average Patriot cannot suffer any one of the above punishments, let alone multiple. When faced with a choice of putting food on the table vs. going to prison and losing their job, the vast majority will stand down.
Think about it: the left dominates the Deep State, big tech, the higher ranks of the military, the police forces in big cities, Academia, the media, and even financial institutions. They are able to effectively harass and obstruct the President of the United States, and there isn't much he can do about it.
Any remaining vocal opposition will likely be mostly Feds and lunatics. Not a winning team.
Also, on the off chance Patriots mounted some kind of guerilla insurgency, or if a couple state governments seriously attempted secession, it would merely guarantee that the USA would fall into extreme dysfunction, and basically anarcho-tyranny, as the globalist institutions had the perfect excuse to ruthlessly clamp down on their opponents. Also, there would be an apocalyptic economic collapse, with possible interruptions in food supplies. Basically unbelievable violence and chaos.
Alternatively, you can start planning to leave the country now, so that when crazed socialists inevitably take power in the next decade, you have somewhere you can go. Historically, the people who stuck around when Mao, Stalin, Hitler etc. came to power didn't do to well. Sometimes the only way to win the game is not play, and move to Asia or Eastern Europe, or possibly Panama city.
RE: Gun confiscation bill proposed in Virginia
Real Americans can and I think will flip the table when they get sufficiently pissed off. And I say Real Americans quite specifically. Regardless of where most Americans were born or what passport they hold, they're not Real Americans. Hell, I'm more American than most Americans FWIW, which is not much.
You have to start learning about civil wars, what drives them, how they play out, who wins them and why.
Then you have to make educated guesses as to why this one might be different, to what extent, and why.
Here's an example of same/different analysis.
In civil wars the power grid is always a prime target for the non-state actors. That's the "same". The "different" is that the US is not some backward South American shithole were society is already premised around electricity constantly dropping out anyway. Seriously hamper the efforts of the state to keep the grid up and the whole ridiculous operation begins to grind to a halt.
Why do civil wars start? Fundamentally it's always the same thing. A certain subgroup in the country (Real Americans in this case) no longer see an acceptable future for themselves or their children under the current arrangements. This criteria is being met as we speak, even under a nominally Republican president supposedly supporting the very people that are ready to "throw down".
Now you can advise people to leave but that's a temporary measure at best. Nobody with an account here is getting a pass when the tyranny goes global. Back in the days of Stalin people were lined up and shot on the mere rumor they muttered something bad about dear leader during their fifth hour in the bread line. In many cases their wife, sons and daughters were killed too. You may not respect the fact that rebellion has a genetic component but the elites are not so gullible. They know well which members of the herd need to be culled one way or another which is precisely why they're trying to do it right now without spooking said herd into rushing the fence line.
So for all these reasons it is very prudent to have supplies in an offsite position. For all the people saying "better just to leave" there's a surprising number of people who think that they're going to have all the time in the world to do that at their leisure, with all their wealth no less. Meanwhile guys like Roosh who've been pulled out of line at airports and even had a plane they were on turned around mid-flight understand quite well that assumptions about free travel in the future are laughable. Your plan to simply leave might not be viable in a week. It might not even be viable this very second. Most people on no-fly lists only find out about it when they're already in the jaws of the beast (the airport).
So, yes. Unless you're already out of country it's very prudent to have supplies, because you don't know when the hammer is going to come down and how broad it's impact will be.
jeffreyjerpp said:Leonard D Neubache said:
I hate to tell you, but there is absolutely no point in "stocking up" firearms or ammo or whatever for an "offsite location".
editgives bunch of reasons to have an offsite location with supplies for civil disorder)
Real Americans can and I think will flip the table when they get sufficiently pissed off. And I say Real Americans quite specifically. Regardless of where most Americans were born or what passport they hold, they're not Real Americans. Hell, I'm more American than most Americans FWIW, which is not much.
You have to start learning about civil wars, what drives them, how they play out, who wins them and why.
Then you have to make educated guesses as to why this one might be different, to what extent, and why.
Here's an example of same/different analysis.
In civil wars the power grid is always a prime target for the non-state actors. That's the "same". The "different" is that the US is not some backward South American shithole were society is already premised around electricity constantly dropping out anyway. Seriously hamper the efforts of the state to keep the grid up and the whole ridiculous operation begins to grind to a halt.
Why do civil wars start? Fundamentally it's always the same thing. A certain subgroup in the country (Real Americans in this case) no longer see an acceptable future for themselves or their children under the current arrangements. This criteria is being met as we speak, even under a nominally Republican president supposedly supporting the very people that are ready to "throw down".
Now you can advise people to leave but that's a temporary measure at best. Nobody with an account here is getting a pass when the tyranny goes global. Back in the days of Stalin people were lined up and shot on the mere rumor they muttered something bad about dear leader during their fifth hour in the bread line. In many cases their wife, sons and daughters were killed too. You may not respect the fact that rebellion has a genetic component but the elites are not so gullible. They know well which members of the herd need to be culled one way or another which is precisely why they're trying to do it right now without spooking said herd into rushing the fence line.
So for all these reasons it is very prudent to have supplies in an offsite position. For all the people saying "better just to leave" there's a surprising number of people who think that they're going to have all the time in the world to do that at their leisure, with all their wealth no less. Meanwhile guys like Roosh who've been pulled out of line at airports and even had a plane they were on turned around mid-flight understand quite well that assumptions about free travel in the future are laughable. Your plan to simply leave might not be viable in a week. It might not even be viable this very second. Most people on no-fly lists only find out about it when they're already in the jaws of the beast (the airport).
So, yes. Unless you're already out of country it's very prudent to have supplies, because you don't know when the hammer is going to come down and how broad it's impact will be.
SlickyBoy
Hummingbird
RE: Gun confiscation bill proposed in Virginia
This is usually true, though at times (depending upon needs of the service) an enlisted guy can go to OCS with only an associates degree, so long as he completes his bachelors within X number of years. Won't matter much since by the time they get through OCS these days they're probably getting just as much PC training as they would have in the first semester of a four year college. Regardless, I wouldn't get my hopes up about patriotism being the number one motivator for most of them.
An increasing percentage of the armed services - whether officer or enlisted - is in it for the benefits, particularly student loan repayment. So long as we have debt donkeys enslaved by student loan debt, there will be enough cannon fodder ready to participate in an ersatz draft. Given the small size of the conflicts and nature of most combat operations (small units, missile strikes & drones fighting non-state actors), this approach can work - until it doesn't.
Mr Gibbs said:
This is usually true, though at times (depending upon needs of the service) an enlisted guy can go to OCS with only an associates degree, so long as he completes his bachelors within X number of years. Won't matter much since by the time they get through OCS these days they're probably getting just as much PC training as they would have in the first semester of a four year college. Regardless, I wouldn't get my hopes up about patriotism being the number one motivator for most of them.
An increasing percentage of the armed services - whether officer or enlisted - is in it for the benefits, particularly student loan repayment. So long as we have debt donkeys enslaved by student loan debt, there will be enough cannon fodder ready to participate in an ersatz draft. Given the small size of the conflicts and nature of most combat operations (small units, missile strikes & drones fighting non-state actors), this approach can work - until it doesn't.
RE: Gun confiscation bill proposed in Virginia
Not quite exactly that heartwarming, but still decent. I was talking to a small town deputy at the counter in a restaurant one time about this stuff. This was back under Obama. He was saying that him and everyone in his department had agreed if it ever came down to gun confisication and the feds telling police to de arm civilians, no one in his department would enforce it. There was a plan, if it came to that and they were sent to a house they would tell dispatch they arrived, just sit and wait inside the patrol car for five minutes, then get back on the radio and tell dispatch no one was home. Do it again for the next one. I can only hope that attitude still exists out there.
But there's a catch. This was back before every agency from big city cops to small town deputies started using body cameras. Those fucking body cameras. On one hand, they're great to protect the officers from bs accusations, but cops can't get away with shit anymore. Which can be good and bad. Good to catch crooked cops; but bad because society needs a little old fashioned street justice sometimes where you might not wanna a camera rolling. That thing has to be rolling the moment you get out of your car. And because you know everything you do and say is being recorded, and you're one misstep from going viral and being on the internet for eternity more cops are letter of the law these days instead of spirit of the law. They know they're walking on eggshells. They're becoming ever more robotic.
Like in this case gun confiscation. You couldn't get away with looking the other way as an officer. God forbid you try and look the other way, then the guy goes back and blasts his wife in the face. The officers superiors check the body cam footage, see that Deputy Dan didn't confisicate the gun, and then the wife's family comes back and sues the department and personally the officer into oblivion. Bye bye fat pension and benefits. Or even jail time for the officer.
I dunno. The pessimist in me believes most cops wouldn't stand up to gun confisication. Especially in cities. County sheriffs and rural deputies maybe. Knowing the deputies know you know where they live will probably help keep them in check haha. But cities, no way. I can just see them coming to take your shit for sure and take pleasure in it.
Leonard D Neubache said:
Not quite exactly that heartwarming, but still decent. I was talking to a small town deputy at the counter in a restaurant one time about this stuff. This was back under Obama. He was saying that him and everyone in his department had agreed if it ever came down to gun confisication and the feds telling police to de arm civilians, no one in his department would enforce it. There was a plan, if it came to that and they were sent to a house they would tell dispatch they arrived, just sit and wait inside the patrol car for five minutes, then get back on the radio and tell dispatch no one was home. Do it again for the next one. I can only hope that attitude still exists out there.
But there's a catch. This was back before every agency from big city cops to small town deputies started using body cameras. Those fucking body cameras. On one hand, they're great to protect the officers from bs accusations, but cops can't get away with shit anymore. Which can be good and bad. Good to catch crooked cops; but bad because society needs a little old fashioned street justice sometimes where you might not wanna a camera rolling. That thing has to be rolling the moment you get out of your car. And because you know everything you do and say is being recorded, and you're one misstep from going viral and being on the internet for eternity more cops are letter of the law these days instead of spirit of the law. They know they're walking on eggshells. They're becoming ever more robotic.
Like in this case gun confiscation. You couldn't get away with looking the other way as an officer. God forbid you try and look the other way, then the guy goes back and blasts his wife in the face. The officers superiors check the body cam footage, see that Deputy Dan didn't confisicate the gun, and then the wife's family comes back and sues the department and personally the officer into oblivion. Bye bye fat pension and benefits. Or even jail time for the officer.
I dunno. The pessimist in me believes most cops wouldn't stand up to gun confisication. Especially in cities. County sheriffs and rural deputies maybe. Knowing the deputies know you know where they live will probably help keep them in check haha. But cities, no way. I can just see them coming to take your shit for sure and take pleasure in it.
Easy_C
Peacock
RE: Gun confiscation bill proposed in Virginia
I don’t think most cops would. One of the men who trained me did a stint as a cop and said that it’s about a third each of patriotic types, people who just want a steady government paycheck, and bullies who want a job where they get to beat people up and get away with it.
The first category won’t and the latter two will.
I don’t think most cops would. One of the men who trained me did a stint as a cop and said that it’s about a third each of patriotic types, people who just want a steady government paycheck, and bullies who want a job where they get to beat people up and get away with it.
The first category won’t and the latter two will.
RE: Gun confiscation bill proposed in Virginia
To answer the question, just search stories of cops who have reported or stopped illegal activity within their unit and what happened to them. Keep in mind that most of them reported relatively low-level corruption, like another cop used excessive force.
The reporting good cops, who would be the ones to disobey confiscation orders, are ostracized and/or prosecuted for being snitches, and then there is a group meeting so the other sheeple cops can be told to agree to never respond back-up requests from the cops who reported, so they quit. The Serpico story is real and would happen again in any large city in the USA.
Just look at the police commissioner in Portland, OR. And the police chief in Chicago, who supported an investigation into Jussie Smollett, he was fired by the new black lesbian mayor.
The only exception to this I would expect are some small jurisdictions where the city, county, police, and sheriff leadership are based and redpilled. I'm sure there are a few here and there among the 3000 counties in America.
And next year George Soros will primary them. Sorry for the blackpill, but IMO depending on a tiny percentage of good cops or good soldiers to resist globohomo is not the answer. Nor is running to Idaho, nor building a bunker, etc.
Easy_C said:
To answer the question, just search stories of cops who have reported or stopped illegal activity within their unit and what happened to them. Keep in mind that most of them reported relatively low-level corruption, like another cop used excessive force.
The reporting good cops, who would be the ones to disobey confiscation orders, are ostracized and/or prosecuted for being snitches, and then there is a group meeting so the other sheeple cops can be told to agree to never respond back-up requests from the cops who reported, so they quit. The Serpico story is real and would happen again in any large city in the USA.
Just look at the police commissioner in Portland, OR. And the police chief in Chicago, who supported an investigation into Jussie Smollett, he was fired by the new black lesbian mayor.
The only exception to this I would expect are some small jurisdictions where the city, county, police, and sheriff leadership are based and redpilled. I'm sure there are a few here and there among the 3000 counties in America.
And next year George Soros will primary them. Sorry for the blackpill, but IMO depending on a tiny percentage of good cops or good soldiers to resist globohomo is not the answer. Nor is running to Idaho, nor building a bunker, etc.
Governor is doing everything he can to antagonize gun owners:
https://www.npr.org/2020/01/15/7966...res-state-of-emergency-ahead-of-pro-gun-rally
https://www.npr.org/2020/01/15/7966...res-state-of-emergency-ahead-of-pro-gun-rally
West Virginia Plans To Accept Virginia Counties That Secede Over Gun Control Concerns
https://nationalfile.com/west-virginia-plans-to-accept-virginia-counties-that-secede-over-gun-control-concerns/
https://nationalfile.com/west-virginia-plans-to-accept-virginia-counties-that-secede-over-gun-control-concerns/
The emergency declaration is a cunning play by that snake.
Politicians know that nothing is more important than the veneer of due process when it comes to cracking down on dissidents. Although it's hard to know the best course forward, the reality is that it's out of the hands of 99% of us anyway so all we can do is pray for steady hands and steady hearts to prevail.
Politicians know that nothing is more important than the veneer of due process when it comes to cracking down on dissidents. Although it's hard to know the best course forward, the reality is that it's out of the hands of 99% of us anyway so all we can do is pray for steady hands and steady hearts to prevail.
I think this is the wrong time for Virginia to crack down this hard and it just shows how deranged Northam is. This strategy won't work. So unless this crackdown is meant to ignite a physical conflict the Dems will lose, they're on the wrong track. Which is fine with me, Northam is a baby murdering scum and now we see how carefully chosen his words were in Dec. 2018 about "comforting" infants.
Thomas Jackson
Woodpecker
Bringing up Charlottesville to fear monger is absurd. Given that was a setup by the local authorities anyway, and the violence was fists and a car. I really hope the boomers are waking up here.