The Vox Day thread

bucky

Pelican
Athanasius said:
Easy_C said:
My answer to the commonly made argument that Vox's critics are just jealous of his success:

Do you not realize that impression is exactly what his own behavior causes? Vox tends to aggressively insult, belittle, and attack anyone who is more popular than himself. He does it with such frequency and consistency that it gives off the impression of not a strong movement leader, but of someone who is triggered by the observation of anyone else being more popular than himself. The behavior isn't "alpha". Trying to climb status hierarchies through the creation of social drama is feminine behavior.
I just don't get that sense from Vox, that it's about getting back at those more popular than himself. He even admits he's arrogant and a niche product. I think he's largely an honest observer who, for example, thinks Peterson and Shapiro are dishonest gatekeepers. He also doesn't really like gossip.

His imperious behavior is ridiculous and embarrassing (he's almost autistic at times), which obscures his interesting thoughts to some degree. But I think it's a personality flaw borne from arrogance, not secret-king style resentment.
Agree. Buchanan and Derbyshire are more popular than Vox in the dissident right and you never see Vox attacking them. I guess you could even say the same of Milo, or at least you could have until recently. Vox is always arrogant and often aggressively unpleasant but like you say, his ideas are interesting. I would add that they are important too.

Another thing is that Vox attacks nobodies who disagree with him (i.e. "gamma males") at least as aggressively. He just went after another one on his blog today.
 

scorpion

Ostrich
Gold Member
Warning: this post may *TRIGGER* some people.

If you like Vox Day, you are probably a dork.

I say this because Vox Day is essentially the "King of the Dorks". Anyone who attended a large American high school (I can't speak for any other countries, although I suspect this archetype may be universal) can probably think back and remember a guy like this. He was that guy who looked fairly normal, and maybe could even pass for one of the cool kids by appearance alone. He was probably athletic and played on one of the sports teams (but not on the popular sports teams like football or basketball). However, this guy invariably had some bizarre personality quirks that rendered him anathema to the cool crowd (note: quirks we would now largely define as the hallmarks of the gamma male) and let to him being rejected by this group. So in an effort to protect his fragile ego, he constructs an internal narrative that he was rejected not based on his shortcomings, but on account of his outright superiority - he was simply too intelligent for them to understand. He is now a self-declared king in his own mind by virtue of his superiority over those who rejected him, but he cannot truly feel like a king without a kingdom. And so he gradually attracts a group of misfits around himself as followers. These are the really dorky guys - the ones who never even had a chance at fitting in with the cool kids. But they form a group around the King of the Dorks, because he looks the part and speaks with total confidence and they lack the social skills to discern the difference between a real alpha and a pretender. And so the King of the Dorks lords over his group of misfits, fulfilling his ego's need for acceptance and approval, but at the same time forever cognizant of his initial rejection, and thus forever insecure. He always feels the need to prove himself better than others. Further, he knows deep down that he lords over a bunch of outcasts and misfits, and thus secretly loathes them all for being pathetic. He can't help but lash out at them regularly, if only to remind himself that he is not one of them. He is better.

Is any of this sounding familiar? Like someone we know?
 

bucky

Pelican
scorpion said:
Warning: this post may *TRIGGER* some people.

If you like Vox Day, you are probably a dork.

I say this because Vox Day is essentially the "King of the Dorks". Anyone who attended a large American high school (I can't speak for any other countries, although I suspect this archetype may be universal) can probably think back and remember a guy like this. He was that guy who looked fairly normal, and maybe could even pass for one of the cool kids by appearance alone. He was probably athletic and played on one of the sports teams (but not on the popular sports teams like football or basketball). However, this guy invariably had some bizarre personality quirks that rendered him anathema to the cool crowd (note: quirks we would now largely define as the hallmarks of the gamma male) and let to him being rejected by this group. So in an effort to protect his fragile ego, he constructs an internal narrative that he was rejected not based on his shortcomings, but on account of his outright superiority - he was simply too intelligent for them to understand. He is now a self-declared king in his own mind by virtue of his superiority over those who rejected him, but he cannot truly feel like a king without a kingdom. And so he gradually attracts a group of misfits around himself as followers. These are the really dorky guys - the ones who never even had a chance at fitting in with the cool kids. But they form a group around the King of the Dorks, because he looks the part and speaks with total confidence and they lack the social skills to discern the difference between a real alpha and a pretender. And so the King of the Dorks lords over his group of misfits, fulfilling his ego's need for acceptance and approval, but at the same time forever cognizant of his initial rejection, and thus forever insecure. He always feels the need to prove himself better than others. Further, he knows deep down that he lords over a bunch of outcasts and misfits, and thus secretly loathes them all for being pathetic. He can't help but lash out at them regularly, if only to remind himself that he is not one of them. He is better.

Is any of this sounding familiar? Like someone we know?
Decent observations, although didn't Vox actually play football in high school? One of the things he hates the most is when people dismiss it as "sportsball." He recently branded those who do so as physical cowards.
 

debeguiled

Peacock
Gold Member
@scorpion

Reminds me of an old Bobcat Goldthwaite joke.

I just found out that 97 percent of all high school students scored higher than I did on the SAT. I'd like to meet those guys in the 3 percent. We could hang out.

I'd be their leader.
 
scorpion said:
Further, he knows deep down that he lords over a bunch of outcasts and misfits, and thus secretly loathes them all for being pathetic. He can't help but lash out at them regularly, if only to remind himself that he is not one of them. He is better.
Well he does literally refer to his followers as "Vile Faceless Minions". Not really a flattering title when you think about it. Perhaps that's his way of secretly insulting his followers while making them think he gave them a cool supervillain name, and the fact that they lap it up just amplifies his disdain for them.
 

infowarrior1

Hummingbird
@bucky

Football is just boring to watch imo. I prefer hockey and basketball where movements are more dynamic and interesting or martial arts.

No doubt playing football teaches many good things. But vicarious enjoyment without participating wont teach such things.

Case in point obese football fans wearing sports jerseys cheering on the teams on tv yet himself dont amount to much.
 

Athanasius

Kingfisher
I've appreciated the sportsball argument. It was one of the things that made me realize that for decades I wasted a ton of time watching sports that really don't matter. I was bitter about results from decades before. I'd spend all day going to games. I'd plan my day around the games. I probably cared more about the results than the players. It was even a part of my identity. When someone asks you about yourself, and one of the things you say is fan of team X....well...

Today I look up scores, watch games very occasionally for recreation, and almost never go to games because it wastes too much time. This isn't to judge those who enjoy sports, and for some it's a time to bond with family, but for me it was about redeeming the time more wisely to largely give it up.
 

CynicalContrarian

Peacock
Gold Member
Voxday :

Lethally Who

Professional attention-seeker Zoe Quinn now has a bodycount:

Alec Holowka is the Infinite Fall developer who died on August 31, a few days after he was accused of sexual assault by a fellow developer, Zoe Quinn. Holowka was known for his work in the world independent video game development, beginning in Winnipeg, where he grew up. Holowka was a graduate of River East Collegiate high school.

Holowka’s sister, Eileen Mary Holowka, announced the Canadian developer’s passing in a Twitter message. Eileen Holowka said in the message that her brother had taken his own life. In the statement, Eileen thanks game developer Adam Saltsman for “staying up late talking with us and reminding Alec that there was a future.”

In the wake of the allegations made by Quinn, Scott Benson, of the “Night in the Woods” team, announced that they had severed ties with Holowka. Quinn made her allegations on Twitter on August 27.
When SJWs talk about being bullied and threatened, remember the Third Law of Social Justice:

SJWs Always Project.

The ride never ends.


http://voxday.blogspot.com/2019/08/lethally-who.html


I also read, that the company / crew Zoe Quinn was attached to for all this nonsense, has stopped their game development altogether :

 

Alsos

Kingfisher
”I find it amusing...”

”It's always amusing...”

"It amuses me that..."

...and many other variations on this phrasing.

At some point I came to recognize this as a verbal tic of the gammas I've known. It's meant to convey an attitude of condescending contempt, as a method of demonstrating that the gamma is himself The Smartest Boy In Class.

Of course, we have it on his authority that Vox is not a gamma, and truly is the Smartest Boy In Class, so obviously his use of this same phrasing is genuine. But it's still cringe-inducing because it so closely resembles a common gamma behavior, and it's annoying besides because using the same construction so frequently is lazy writing.
 

debeguiled

Peacock
Gold Member
Alsos said:
”I find it amusing...”

”It's always amusing...”

"It amuses me that..."

...and many other variations on this phrasing.

At some point I came to recognize this as a verbal tic of the gammas I've known. It's meant to convey an attitude of condescending contempt, as a method of demonstrating that the gamma is himself The Smartest Boy In Class.

Of course, we have it on his authority that Vox is not a gamma, and truly is the Smartest Boy In Class, so obviously his use of this same phrasing is genuine. But it's still cringe-inducing because it so closely resembles a common gamma behavior, and it's annoying besides because using the same construction so frequently is lazy writing.
Like this? (From today)

http://voxday.blogspot.com/2019/10/never-trust-experts.html

It's always amusing when midwits attempt to question their intellectual superiors:
The past few posts leave me wondering "where else do Vox and many of his fans entertain absurdly contrarian opinions on topics they demonstrably know next to nothing about?"
If this loser had any idea how much success I have had over the years by flat-out ignoring the advice and the opinions of the subject-matter experts who know vastly more about their subjects than I do, he simply would not believe it. In fact, two of my three biggest failures were the direct result of being overruled by people who knew considerably more and refused to listen to me.

Mere information very seldom overrules genuine intelligence. Remember, nearly all the economic experts will tell you that free trade is good for America and it wasn't all that long ago when all the nutrition experts told you that not eating meat was the way to lose weight.
 

kruger41

Pigeon
Like this? (From today)

http://voxday.blogspot.com/2019/10/never-trust-experts.html

It's always amusing when midwits attempt to question their intellectual superiors:
The past few posts leave me wondering "where else do Vox and many of his fans entertain absurdly contrarian opinions on topics they demonstrably know next to nothing about?"
If this loser had any idea how much success I have had over the years by flat-out ignoring the advice and the opinions of the subject-matter experts who know vastly more about their subjects than I do, he simply would not believe it. In fact, two of my three biggest failures were the direct result of being overruled by people who knew considerably more and refused to listen to me.

Mere information very seldom overrules genuine intelligence. Remember, nearly all the economic experts will tell you that free trade is good for America and it wasn't all that long ago when all the nutrition experts told you that not eating meat was the way to lose weight.
What a likeable, personable dude.

Seriously though, I agree with the majority of VD's politics. I think that many of his viewpoints, political or otherwise, tend to be correct. But, damn, this petty bullshit is a serious hindrance to his overall image. It reads as smarmy and self important.
 

Alsos

Kingfisher
Yes. That's what precipitated my comment, but I noticed the phenomenon a long time ago.

His posts on moon hoaxes and flat Earth theories lately have annoyed me, as well, and for similar reasons. There are certain controversial or edge topics that he will entertain in posts, giving coy hints of what he thinks but never stating it explicitly. What he says about what he says about these things suggests he is trolling his readers, baiting them into thinking he has a particular opinion, after which points out that he never stated the opinion imputed to him and sneers at the readers for being unable to perceive his true aims in discussing the topic.

Which goes beyond the Smartest Boy In Class act to what might be labeled the Wise Master routine: creating ambiguity one then leverages to show how small and limited the minds of others are, and that one thinks on a higher, more subtle level than they. "It's not that I'm being deliberately vague to the point you cannot know my thoughts with any certainty, it's that my thoughts are too sublime and enlightened for you ever to grasp them.”

Where a truly wise man would focus such a situation on the others, using it like Socrates as an opportunity to guide and improve their thinking, the man using the Wise Master routine uses the situation to demonstrate how much more clever he is than they are (and cleverness is not the same as wisdom).
 

Alsos

Kingfisher
Kruger, I find him thought provoking at times and keep reading for that reason. That, and the often hilarious drama of the science fiction community.

I can tell he's a smart guy by his interests, insights, and accomplishments. I don't need him to repeatedly tell me he's intelligent, nor to imply when he does so that he's among the most intelligent humans to ever walk the Earth. It's a bit over the top and not supported by what I have witnessed from the man. It suggests a bit of insecurity, in fact.
 

kruger41

Pigeon
Alsos said:
Kruger, I find him thought provoking at times and keep reading for that reason. That, and the often hilarious drama of the science fiction community.

I can tell he's a smart guy by his interests, insights, and accomplishments. I don't need him to repeatedly tell me he's intelligent, nor to imply when he does so that he's among the most intelligent humans to ever walk the Earth. It's a bit over the top and not supported by what I have witnessed from the man. It suggests a bit of insecurity, in fact.
I entirely agree. I should have been more specific in my previous comments: I think it's Vox that is the petty one, starting drama for zero reason or discernible benefit while touting his lofty, MENSA tier IQ.
 

rotekz

Ostrich
Gold Member
Alt-Hero has produced the first 6 editions with Volume 1 now out. All backers should receive it soon.


Alt-Hero Q now has the second edition out and continues to show the excellent quality seen in the first.
 

rotekz

Ostrich
Gold Member
Today is the last chance to back the Junior Classics funding campaign. If you have kids, or plan to, and want to give them a solid literary foundation these are the stories that makeup the bedrock of Western culture. The 1918 version revised here has all the Christian and masculine themes that were removed in later versions.

 

Athanasius

Kingfisher
rotekz said:
Today is the last chance to back the Junior Classics funding campaign. If you have kids, or plan to, and want to give them a solid literary foundation these are the stories that makeup the bedrock of Western culture. The 1918 version revised here has all the Christian and masculine themes that were removed in later versions.

Yeah, this is a great idea. I would've loved to have had a collection like this as a kid!
 
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