This Bible has a text about everybody's equal worth from an ex-PM and worse. It destroyed my faith - what do I do?

DanielH

Pelican
Orthodox
Barron, respectfully, how can one read Bible verses like those below, and many like them, and conclude that the Bible is not the word of God?

2 Timothy 3:16a All Scripture is God-breathed

Matthew 24:35 (Christ speaking) Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

Matthew 4:4 Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”

Isaiah 40:8 The grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of our God endures forever.

Proverbs 2:6 For the Lord gives wisdom; from his mouth come knowledge and understanding.
Furthermore, the Nicene Creed affirms that the Holy Spirit spoke through the prophets.
 
KJV is good. I use the ESV, which reads like the KJV but uses modern English. It's also based on the TR, the same text the KJV is based on. I fell into "KJV Onlyism" early in my Christian walk, but worked my way out of it. I realized I was using the NIV when I became convicted that Jesus Christ is Lord.

My understanding of "trespasses" vs "debts" is that the Greek can support both. I use "debts" when I pray the Lord's Prayer because that's what I've used most of my life and am most comfortable with.

I also primarily use the ESV. I agree with others the best way is to read the Bible in multiple languages and multiple translations (I also use the Reina-Valera 1960 version in Spanish), ideally the original Greek or Hebrew. My desire to understand the true meaning behind the words, which I agree are only signifiers to the truth, drove me to study Greek to gain a decent enough working knowledge that I can translate just about any passage from the New Testament within an hour or so, with the help an online lexicon, grammar reference book, and other resources. Not where I want to be yet, but definitely able to get a much better appreciation of the original meaning behind difficult passages. Studying the origin of particular Greek words gives you a very good sense of what those words actually mean and the connotations they would have had in people's minds at that time.

OP, I encourage you to research as much as you can the origin of any Bible version you're considering, so whether the translated words are perfect representations of the originals or not, at least you know where they came from. Also keep in mind you could study the original language and text if you choose, and never rely on a translation again. Next best might be using a site like Blue Letter Bible or Bible Gateway where you can line up many Bible translations next to one other for any particular section, and get a good sense of variations in the translations.
 
Well, as an another member mentioned earlier, get another Bible, and pray for fortitude and put it into practice in your life.

But it isn't clear to me why it destroyed your faith. We will always come across those who seek to distort truth by whatever means, and as Christians we should expect our lives to only get more difficult.

"If the world hates you, be aware that it hated me before it hated you" John 15,18
 

Barron

Ostrich
Gold Member
Barron, respectfully, how can one read Bible verses like those below, and many like them, and conclude that the Bible is not the word of God?
Because I'm a Catholic and we Catholics entertain a substantial amount of skepticism, especially where the words of other men are concerned.
I don't believe this offends God. However, my belief in the teachings of Christ (that they are the single best way to live) and faith in his father are what keeps me going.
 
Because I'm a Catholic and we Catholics entertain a substantial amount of skepticism, especially where the words of other men are concerned.
I don't believe this offends God. However, my belief in the teachings of Christ (that they are the single best way to live) and faith in his father are what keeps me going.
My Catholic priest once described the Bible to me as "a library containing the word of God".
 

DanielH

Pelican
Orthodox
Because I'm a Catholic and we Catholics entertain a substantial amount of skepticism, especially where the words of other men are concerned.
I don't believe this offends God. However, my belief in the teachings of Christ (that they are the single best way to live) and faith in his father are what keeps me going.
Does the Catholic Church allow its members to disagree with the Nicene Creed which states that the Holy Spirit spoke through the prophets? Serious question, maybe a sedevacantist can help me out here. I assume such a disagreement would not be allowed which would also be the Orthodox position.
 

Barron

Ostrich
Gold Member
Does the Catholic Church allow its members to disagree with the Nicene Creed which states that the Holy Spirit spoke through the prophets? Serious question, maybe a sedevacantist can help me out here. I assume such a disagreement would not be allowed which would also be the Orthodox position.
Daniel I know you don't like me because you hate Trump and downvote whatever doesn't bash him in the Trump thread.
But don't you think questioning another man's faith is stepping over the line?
 

DanielH

Pelican
Orthodox
Daniel I know you don't like me because you hate Trump and downvote whatever doesn't bash him in the Trump thread.
But don't you think questioning another man's faith is stepping over the line?
No Barron, I love your cheery optimism, a dislike doesn't mean I dislike you. I have much more in common with a Catholic Trump supporter than 95% of the population and we're pretty much in the same foxhole right now. Back on topic...

If the rules are the same in Catholicism as it is in Orthodoxy, this is a very grave matter. If I really didn't like you I could let it slide, but that would be wrong. Orthodoxy doesn't allow disagreements in that part of our faith, and I'm worried that you may be disagreeing with your Church in a very serious way that the Church would see as an impediment to communion - but I legitimately don't know the Roman Catholic stance on that. I have no doubt you love Christ.

I also don't hate Trump but won't elaborate as that has nothing to do with this thread.
 

Barron

Ostrich
Gold Member
If the rules are the same in Catholicism as it is in Orthodoxy, this is a very grave matter. If I really didn't like you I could let it slide, but that would be wrong. Orthodoxy doesn't allow disagreements in that part of our faith, and I'm worried that you may be disagreeing with your Church in a very serious way that the Church would see as an impediment to communion - but I legitimately don't know the Roman Catholic stance on that.

The "rules" are the same for every other Christian, obey the 10 commandments.

Catholicism doesn't use religion to force compliance and crush dissenting thought or opinions and neither does Orthodox Christianity.
 
Last edited:
Barron, respectfully, how can one read Bible verses like those below, and many like them, and conclude that the Bible is not the word of God?

2 Timothy 3:16a All Scripture is God-breathed

Matthew 24:35 (Christ speaking) Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

Matthew 4:4 Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”

Isaiah 40:8 The grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of our God endures forever.

Proverbs 2:6 For the Lord gives wisdom; from his mouth come knowledge and understanding.

Luke 4:16-19

"And [Jesus} came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Isaiah. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, 'The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.' And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears."
 
No it's not.
The bible is a collection of texts written by men. In fact we don't have any words written by Jesus himself, and the passages in the bible which are written directly about him are very few. These texts themselves are Holy in that they were recorded by his most devout followers to preserve his teachings, but the point is that the bible is not "The word of God".

God does not communicate by words. God communicates through revelations, only Satan uses the lower tongue.
Actually, God does communicate by words, because the Bible says He does. (Example: Numbers 12:7, 8)
One of his written communications was divinely carved out on the tablets of stone. (Exodus 31:18; Deuteronomy 9:10)

Also, if "The bible is a collection of texts written by men" and "the bible is not 'The word of God'", then why do you hold obedience to "the 10 commandments" of any value?
The "rules" are the same for every other Christian, obey the 10 commandments.

Catholicism doesn't use religion to force compliance and crush dissenting thought or opinions and neither does Orthodox Christianity.
 
So, without further derailment...

This Bible has a text about everybody's equal worth from an ex-PM and worse. It destroyed my faith - what do I do?​

Your comments in this thread indicate that you already recognize that the "Marxist prelude" and the actual scriptures are two separate things, so I'm not sure how your faith 'was destroyed'. I'm curious if you read that Bible back to front; how did the actual scriptual passages agree/disagree with the opening pages?
 

Deo Vindice

Chicken
Orthodox
Does the Catholic Church allow its members to disagree with the Nicene Creed which states that the Holy Spirit spoke through the prophets? Serious question, maybe a sedevacantist can help me out here. I assume such a disagreement would not be allowed which would also be the Orthodox position.
No.
“Christian faith is the firm conviction, arrived at with the grace of God, that all that Jesus Christ taught on earth is true, as well as all that the Catholic Church teaches by the commission she has received from Him…He who willfully disbelieves a single doctrine of the Catholic Church has no true faith, for he who receives some of the words of Christ and rejects others, does not really believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and that He guides the Catholic Church…”
 

Sanctus

Pigeon
Get the Orthodox study bible, no degeneracy there.
I recently learned that the Orthodox Study Bible is based on the NEW KJV but not an original KJV - to which there have been significant changes to the overall language to aid with clarity. People always tell me to get an original KJV in order to get the full meaning of the NT.
 
I recently learned that the Orthodox Study Bible is based on the NEW KJV but not an original KJV - to which there have been significant changes to the overall language to aid with clarity. People always tell me to get an original KJV in order to get the full meaning of the NT.

In my opinion it's harder to get the full meaning from the KJV unless you're an expert in the English language circa 1611. I realize many modern translations are done with ulterior motives or in the spirit of feminizing the text. Personally I prefer the English Standard Version, which was published in the early 2000s but doesn't seem to have those problems. The ESV uses even older source texts than the KJV, plus more advanced methods to reconstruct parts of the original manuscripts that are inconsistent or missing. Also the language is much easier to understand for modern readers and is strong and satisfying to read.

That said, there are some classic passages in the Bible that just sound better in the Old English KJV style.

Best approach might be to put two or more translations side by side. This is easy to do online at websites such as Bible Gateway. Blue Letter Bible is a good online resource also. As a last resort consider learning the source languages themselves, then you can understand the exact meaning for yourself.
 
Last edited:

Sanctus

Pigeon
In my opinion it's harder to get the full meaning from the KJV unless you're an expert in the English language circa 1611. I realize many modern translations are done with ulterior motives or in the spirit of feminizing the text. Personally I prefer the English Standard Version, which was published in the early 2000s but doesn't seem to have those problems. The ESV uses even older source texts than the KJV, plus more advanced methods to reconstruct parts of the original manuscripts that are inconsistent or missing. Also the language is much easier to understand for modern readers and is strong and satisfying to read.

That said, there are some classic passages in the Bible that just sound better in the Old English KJV style.

Best approach might be to put two or more translations side by side. This is easy to do online at websites such as Bible Gateway. Blue Letter Bible is a good online resource also. As a last resort consider learning the source languages themselves, then you can understand the exact meaning for yourself.
Thanks for the reply. For now, I think I'll stick with what I have (Orthodox Study Bible) but am also keen on getting the KJV eventually given its place in history.
 
Top