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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Australia Sucks" data-source="post: 634900" data-attributes="member: 11806">I will throw my two cents worth. I previously trained in Kyokushin Karate for well over ten years under one of the top ranked (by grade) instructors (in Kyokushin) in the world (who himself studied under Mas Oyama) and a few of my other instructors also studied under Mas Oyama. I directly sparred with some guys who competed in world championship tournaments for Kyokushin Karate. I will point out that Mas Oyama trained in boxing and Judo and Karate at different stages of his life when he was younger. For those who do not know Mas Oyama was a legendary Karate practitioner and the founder of Kyokushin Karate.In Kyokushin a lot of people spar and punch heavy bags bare knuckle. They are careful about the knuckles impacting the right spot and the wrist alignment being correct, the fist being tight, etc. In Kyokushin head punches and elbows to the head are not allowed because people fight bare knuckle (or sometimes with the thin open-fingered gloves) and repeated elbows and bare knuckle punches to the head give people brain damage, broken noses, etc so its not a great idea. Sure occasionally people get kicked or kneed in the head but it does not happen very often because its hard to execute it successfully. Also in dojo sparring guys of all weights and skill levels fight each other. In sparring a lot of guys punch each other full force to the body bare knuckle.Also in Kyokushin karate (and most styles of Karate) in basic training they pull the fist back to next to the chest (in Kyokushin the chest level, in Shotokan at the hip level) after punching to get the full counter-rotation/circular movement as a training device to get used to putting full weight and body rotation into punches. In a fight/sparring some people change this to pulling the other fist back to next to your head (to keep guard). A well trained Kyokushin fighter delivers huge power in their punches. Fully professional boxers who do huge amounts of strength training as well as training for boxing full time must be compared to an true Okinawan Karate master rather than a championship karate fighter (who is typically not full time dedicated to it). Besides its not so useful to look at outliers. I would wager that an average practitioner that trained Kyokushin in a good dojo for 5 years would punch/do better in a bare knuckle (punching only) fight than an average practitioner that trained boxing for 5 years in a decent dojo. I trained with some guys who used to train/practice boxing before karate so I have some idea what I am talking about. As for sparring in Kyokushin it depends on the guys you train with. There are some dojos/guys that go really full on with maximum power and aggression during sparring and leave the dojo limping and bruised (although this is becoming much rarer these days than it once was). I am not going to say boxing is useless, but I do think that most boxers are at greater risk of injuring their hands if they were to fight bare knuckle. I will also add that when it comes to punching technique there is a lot more to consider than just punching power. How your body and weight distribution and hands are positioned after you finish the punch is important. Can you kick or leg check quickly straight after throwing a punch or are your legs too heavy (or your stance too forward leaning/low/unbalanced, etc)? Is your guard/other hand protecting your head? I think the way many boxers punch sets them up poorly if they were to follow up with a kick or leg check (block). Also the fact that boxers fight with such big gloves which they hide behind to protect their face is a distortion. It does not work the same way when you are bare knuckled. I think boxing can still be useful in a street fight but its sub-optimal compared to punching in certain other martial arts.  One problem with Kyokushin and indeed most forms of Karate is that there is little money in it so unless someone cross trains it with other martial arts to go into MMA or decides to enter kickboxing tournaments they are not going to be training with full time dedication because they cannot earn a living form it. This limits the pool of truly skilled practitioners. Back in the 70s and 80s when Karate was more popular you had instructors that just trained full time as a live in student (uchi deshi) for years and then opened a dojo and trained all day in between classes. Many Karate instructors (at least in any place that isn't a profit seeking Mcdojo) today do not earn enough to be full-time instructors and have a day job as well.</blockquote>

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