Thoughts on capital punishment

Rob Banks

Pelican
Eugenics is not anti-Christian. It's saying nothing more than that the purpose of every marriage is divine ends, not the lusts of the individuals. And the Church has the ultimate right to sanction or not sanction a marriage. Just like it has the ability to refuse marriage of first-cousins.
Not true. You left out thr part where Eugenics allows and encourages the Church (or the civil authorities) to deny certain people the right to marry anyone at all.

Of course, if you deny lots of young men the right to marry and procreate, they are likely to become more aggressive and violent. So you will likely end up allowing and even encouraging then to use pornography, prostitution, and even undergo sterilization (which will be presented as a "voluntary choice").

And that's not to mention that "desirable" people would likely be encouraged to fornicate in order to have many babies, turning the babies over to the state once they are born. This happened in Nazi Germany, and in my opinion was a greater evil than the alleged Holocaust.

So the Church would be picking and choosing who can and can't receive the sacrament of marriage (and all the joy amd beauty that goes with it) and they would be doing so based on what traits they (not God) consider to be desirable in the creation of the next generation.

Eugenics is pure evil.
 

Vigilant

Woodpecker
Woman
I guess I'm guilty of "death penalty idealism."

Had not considered the slippery slope for the state to just off whomever they please.

But I do think it is appropriate for certain things, when used correctly.

You might say it depends on the... execution.
The execution is dependent on the theological premise of which law to act on; man's humanistic law of today, or God's law system.
Natural law/man-centered or common law/biblical law. When God's design is not faithfully passed onto the next generation, we become ignorant of it, and lose out of the progress.

We need law and order for civilized progression, but men act out their faith, and when the faith of men is humanistic we are going to have a world of anarchy and tyranny.
In our current times, we have zillions of regulations under the guise of law. Anyone is now easily a criminal, when it suits those whom have the power to execute prejudice against their opponents; an anti-Christ club against Christendom.

Sophisticated savagery is at the root of the primitive savagery, that affects decent folk.
The worst thing about this, is that both the wicked and the decent are forced into a prison planet for survival, and this affects our productivity, leading to a total breakdown of our civilization. We are forced to spend more time navigating the traps, reducing productivity, which is exactly the strategy of the evil strategists, to dominate.

It's never been the majority that has been used to the rescue Christendom, but a faithful minority of God-fearing folk.
 

DanielaEverheart

Pigeon
Woman
I just want to add that a State cannot be fully Christian because ultimately, the Kingdom is not of this world. As such, it can always become the enemy's theater-

This is according to Scripture, where the enemy tempted Jesus in the wilderness.

Matthew 4:8

Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
 

Vigilant

Woodpecker
Woman
I just want to add that a State cannot be fully Christian because ultimately, the Kingdom is not of this world. As such, it can always become the enemy's theater-

This is according to Scripture, where the enemy tempted Jesus in the wilderness.

Matthew 4:8

Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
Satan was bearing false witness, lying, deceiving and arrogantly presumptuous. Never believe what the devil says.
 

Papist

Robin
I have avoided this topic as it's quite an emotive one and, in past debates elsewhere, it has attracted ghoulish types who seem to relish the idea of criminals being tortured to death.
I suppose there are certain crimes where the death penalty is merited and, of course, it's sanctioned by the Bible. However, I think it should be reserved for the worst offenders, and the guillotine should be the method used as I cannot imagine one could really suffer when dispatched that way.
 

Vigilant

Woodpecker
Woman
As God himself said in Genesis 9:6 and Romans 13 he Authorized the Human Authorities to kill murderers. And it would be a Just Punishment. And in Genesis 9:6 he made it mandatory.

We are sending prisoners to him.

If you believed you would know the torments of hell would be far worse than life long prison.
"In Ephesians 3:14-15, according to James Moffat’s translation we read: “For this reason then I kneel before the Father, from whom every family in heaven and on earth derives its name and nature.” The Father of all families can also be rendered: “The Father of all fatherhoods”.

So that all fatherhoods are a type of Christ, and every family in heaven and earth derives its name and nature from God. Now what Saint Paul is saying in the 3rd Chapter is that the name and nature of all earthly relationships derives from the triune God.

That is, apart from God there is no law, no society, to relationship, no justice, no structure, no design, no meaning.

So that, what is hell? It is just bare existence, in total isolation. There is no community in hell. Nothing. No relationship between person and person in hell. Because God having been denied who is the Father of all fatherhoods, from whom every relationship derives its name and nature, to deny God is ultimately to deny all law, all society, every possible relationship. Hell has none of these things. It is total isolation.

{This typology of marriage whereby marriage is compared to the relationship of Christ in the church therefore says that the marriage relationship sets forth something of that which in its original comes from the triune God, and from His redemptive purpose in Christ and the church. That the source of all relationship and its law structure comes from God. Therefore it is that, husband and wife shall be one flesh; not an identity of substance, but a community of life.}

And therefore this which is called a great mystery has reference to this; the primacy of God as the source of all relationship and of all community, and therefore of all authority."
 

Vigilant

Woodpecker
Woman
Laws against Sodomy were enforced by Capital Punishment for hundreds of years and in a few places they still are.

I guess the logic is, if God felt it just to level two entire cities because dudes were being sodomites, surely it is just to put one to death for practicing it.
There's no biblical law against it is practiced in private, but darkness has a way of revealing itself, so when it is done in public, it is punishable by death, but by civil law only. Also, God does not accept their tithe as a judgement against them, not having a valuable contribution to the community. There lives are a form of death, even if the an uncivil government judges in their favour. Same with both mothers and fathers who abort their progeny. They too experience a type of death for their crime against the Creator.
 

Kitty Tantrum

Woodpecker
Woman
I'm a little late on this one, but I wanted to chime in with my two cents:

I don't know for sure about eugenics, but modern interstate highways are definitely evil.
 
I have no problem with capital punishment. (We don't use it enough I think.)

"Is capital punishment a deterrent?" I think is a question that can never be answered. The person you're executing, obviously it didn't deter them. But how many people said, "I'm not going to do this horrible crime because I could be executed for it." 1 person decided to not be a criminal? 10? 1000? None? You can't exactly study that.

What capital punishment really is saying is: "We cannot pass judgement on you."

If you were speeding... Pay the ticket, and justice is served. If you attacked someone, but didn't kill them... You need to go into exile for a set number of years in prison, losing that time, and after that, judgement is served. If you robbed a store, but didn't kill anyone, go to prison a set number of years and judgement is served.

With capital punishment we are saying, "There is nothing we can do, or make you do, no fine we can impose on you, no amount of time in prison, to be able to serve justice, and make the scales of justice even again. You have so damaged your relationship with the rest of society, that society cannot pass judgement on you, and you are now at the mercy of God."

People who are against the death penalty I think are not actually against capital punishment, but more against punishment in general. And we're seeing that dangerous mentality grow, because now people are pushing for abolishing life in prison... Which was itself an argument for capital punishment not too long ago. "We don't need to kill criminals because we can keep them locked up for life." is now morphing into "You can't locked people up for life, that's not fair." (Mr Bergolio has even advocated for that position.) If you believe that this life is all there is, then abolishing the death penalty makes perfect sense.

I would also prefer to have a higher "threshold" than simply beyond a reasonable doubt for capital punishment.

I think it is grotesquely unfair and unjust that someone who murders gets to spend decades alive in prison that their victim didn't get. Every instant that criminal is alive is an insult to their victim.

I've also read (I'm not an expert on this, so I could be wrong) that arguably the most "humane" way to kill a criminal would be to throw them into an air-tight chamber, and flood it with Nitrogen gas. "The Pain" you feel from holding your breath and not breathing is not from a "lack of Oxygen" but from a "build up of CO2." Your lungs are producing CO2 to be expelled with every breath. The air is about 78% Nitrogen, it's basically inert and doesn't do anything. If you breath in 100% Nitrogen, you won't actually "feel pain" you'll just eventually black out one instant, and then die.

People who breath heavily before swimming have a tendency of having that happen, they expel a lot of the CO2 from their body, so they don't feel the pain and can hold their breath an extra long time, the downside is if they don't get enough Oxygen, they'll pass out... And they pass out under water. Those who've been brought back through CPR report that it was instantaneous. Fine one moment, blacked-out the next, and being woken up by a life guard, no idea what just happened.
 
I am against the death penalty because it kills a person by mistake, can not rescute this person. Besides the death penalty only anticipates something that would happen to that person later or earlier.

Perpetual imprisonment is good size.
 
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