Thoughts on choosing a trade as a profession

[scotian]

I recently had beers with a friend in the oil sands who drives one of those massive trucks (biggest in the world) in the mines that carry oil sand to be extracted/refined. They introduced autonomous trucks at his mine that are operated from a control room and things haven’t gone as smoothly as predicted. My buddy didn’t seem to worried about it, the self driving trucks have messed up a lot and the company isn’t using them much, it’s been costly.

Automation is definitely a consideration though and something that guys should be aware of and prepare for. In my trade some of our welding inspection techniques have gone automated, they can do a lot more than a tech doing it manually. Fortunately my union pays for and provides courses for us to become certified in the advanced/automated techniques, they fly guys to Edmonton from the UK to put on these courses.

Here’s a video of guys doing automated ultrasonic testing on a big inch pipeline, the guy with the specialized course sits in a warm truck analyzing the data that the machine takes as it scans the weld for defects:

 

[mountainaire]

I decided to start a home inspection business. I'm in my mid 30s. I had no trade background, but I have a good attention to detail. I've studied for a couple years, and feel like I've gotten to the point where I can start doing this for a living.

I decided to start out on my own with my own company instead of working for someone else. I figure the learning curve will be steep but the payoff will be greater.

 

[NoMoreTO]

A young relative is interested in Cabinet Making.

It seems like Carpentry would be the more practical choice, but to each their own. You're only young once and he'll get this start in something solid.

Anyone have any thoughts on Cabinet making in particular? A friend of mine who works in carpentry/home reno and has made cabinets seems to think that you are really only catering to the super high end luxury market. Ultimately, it's not an easy path.

 

[Pointy Elbows]

Re: Home Inspection business: Good luck and I bet it is a great idea. I hope it is a low cost entry business, with good opportunity (the home inspection reports I have seen in recent years are ridiculously detailed and formatted). I think it is a requirement for government backed loans to have these really extensive reports now.

As a side gig, you may be able to use this as a great opportunity to learn building codes and make lots of contacts in real estate and maybe even other trades. Great way to enter and educate yourself to become a general contractor or even a trade contractor. You may be able to identify some underserved market niches in your area. I would start building database from day 1 for all contacts and details.

Downside may be that as home sales slow down for any reason (lack of inventory, raising interest rates), then there may be a market shrink that will be tough to live out.

 

[fireshark]

I decided to start a home inspection business. I'm in my mid 30s. I had no trade background, but I have a good attention to detail. I've studied for a couple years, and feel like I've gotten to the point where I can start doing this for a living.

I decided to start out on my own with my own company instead of working for someone else. I figure the learning curve will be steep but the payoff will be greater.

I've been seriously considering the exact same thing. I also have no trade background. I'm currently working as a building maintenance tech, basically a general handyman around a large commercial space.

Are you self taught or entered some kind of trade school program? What made you feel like you are now ready to do it for real?

 

[Pointy Elbows]

A young relative is interested in Cabinet Making.

It seems like Carpentry would be the more practical choice, but to each their own. You're only young once and he'll get this start in something solid.

Anyone have any thoughts on Cabinet making in particular? A friend of mine who works in carpentry/home reno and has made cabinets seems to think that you are really only catering to the super high end luxury market. Ultimately, it's not an easy path.

I believe that. I have a cousin that is a distributor for cabinets. Right now, his business is booming - including high end homes. Issue is: he is just an assembler and forwarder, really. The cabinets get shipped to him, flat and unassembled, in trucks and containers, packed to fill maximum orders per shipping container. He off-loads them, organizes them by order, then has a few laborers do basic assembly (fitting cabinet bases and drawers together), then delivers to jobsite for contractor installation.

Neither he, nor his many contractor customers, do any real "carpentry." Far as I am concerned, the highest trade skill of cabinets is the ridiculously expensive array of countertops people are fixated upon nowadays to mount on their cabinets. Those must be custom built and fit to the setup. Basically, the cabinets are erector-sets that people pick and chose to rest under the fancy countertops.

His business is driven by decades-long relationships he has in the industry - as an installer/contractor, then as a rep for a regional distributor from a different state that he now competes against with a different brand. Much of his business is driven by access to "Chyyna" made cabinets.

This is where I believe tradesmen have really been pushed out by globalization.

Maybe "super high end luxury market" is worth it, but that is a tight niche. He better be good.

 

[BeatUpTruck]

As per cabinets - you guys are both looking at the two extreme ends of cabinet building. The guy who simply assembles prebuilt cabinets is at the low end. Think IKEA or Home Depot cabinet quality. They look nice enough and are functional, but anyone with expensive tastes and an eye for quality can see them for what they are. They are made from particle board with a thin veneer. Not to mention that they will normally end up a little damaged from all the shipping and many hands they go through. Here is a kitchen in a cottage I just built. They are basic cabinets, ordered through a local lumber yard. Similar quality to Home Depot.




On the other end of the spectrum there is the high end stuff. You have to do exceptional work and have the experience to build whatever your customers whims may be. If you are able you will get paid handsomely for it. My cousin is a high end finishing carpenter. He had a customer ask him to build a circular bar. He didn’t even want to do it.. so he told the guy it would start at $50, 000 and increase depending. The guy said ‘just build it’.

But there is definitely a market for mid range cabinets and finishing. There’s lots of people who want quality solid wood, custom fitted cabinets, that don’t break the bank. And you’ll still make good money at it also.
The above cabinets cost $7000 built, I installed them myself. Solid wood, custom built cabinets in the same design might be $12000 with $5000 of that being materials cost, and they would take you two weeks to build and install. That $7000 profit for two weeks work - $14, 000 per month.
Edit... this is profit before you pay your other expenses I talk about below.

Practically speaking, cabinet building is more of a hurdle to enter into than most other carpentry. It will take some time to learn, requires a shop to work in and many tools. Some of the tools being quite expensive.
I advise your relative to go to work for a cabinet maker and start learning while being paid for it and work his way up from there. It will take time. I wouldn’t bother taking any schooling. You’ll learn way more on the job way quicker, including all the tricks of the trade that it took your mentor decades to perfect.

 

[Monty_Brogan]

As per cabinets - you guys are both looking at the two extreme ends of cabinet building. The guy who simply assembles prebuilt cabinets is at the low end. Think IKEA or Home Depot cabinet quality. They look nice enough and are functional, but anyone with expensive tastes and an eye for quality can see them for what they are. They are made from particle board with a thin veneer. Not to mention that they will normally end up a little damaged from all the shipping and many hands they go through. Here is a kitchen in a cottage I just built. They are basic cabinets, ordered through a local lumber yard. Similar quality to Home Depot.

View attachment 40339


On the other end of the spectrum there is the high end stuff. You have to do exceptional work and have the experience to build whatever your customers whims may be. If you are able you will get paid handsomely for it. My cousin is a high end finishing carpenter. He had a customer ask him to build a circular bar. He didn’t even want to do it.. so he told the guy it would start at $50, 000 and increase depending. The guy said ‘just build it’.

But there is definitely a market for mid range cabinets and finishing. There’s lots of people who want quality solid wood, custom fitted cabinets, that don’t break the bank. And you’ll still make good money at it also.
The above cabinets cost $7000 built, I installed them myself. Solid wood, custom built cabinets in the same design might be $12000 with $5000 of that being materials cost, and they would take you two weeks to build and install. That $7000 profit for two weeks work - $14, 000 per month.
Edit... this is profit before you pay your other expenses I talk about below.

Practically speaking, cabinet building is more of a hurdle to enter into than most other carpentry. It will take some time to learn, requires a shop to work in and many tools. Some of the tools being quite expensive.
I advise your relative to go to work for a cabinet maker and start learning while being paid for it and work his way up from there. It will take time. I wouldn’t bother taking any schooling. You’ll learn way more on the job way quicker, including all the tricks of the trade that it took your mentor decades to perfect.

Nice work! Looks great!

 

[scotian]

One thing to consider when picking a trade as a career is whether or not you’re doing it for the money or as a passion. Myself I chose the former: I like the money, taking months off, pension, benefits, etc but I don’t don’t take much pride in my work (piping/welding QC at oil refineries) or get a real sense of accomplishment out of it.

 

[Pointy Elbows]

Regarding trucking: I'm losing a temp CDL driver to a big brand name trucking operation. He's claiming they will pay him $100k to haul a daily milk-run. 6 hours out, swap trailers, 6 hours back. No loading or un-loading. I am getting similar reports from local route-drivers for LTL deliveries.

As far as I am concerned, that's a super paycheck, especially considering he has : a) zero personal capital investment, and b) zero management headache.

Now whether or not he actually earns that money is another issue. These freight carriers have been known to have ways to screw their drivers out of stuff. A lot of guys get nickel-and-dimed: unpaid hours waiting for a trailer or a dock to open, daily runs that get turned into OTR runs with little notice. RVF members have reported as much already.

 

[Sargon2112]

One thing to consider when picking a trade as a career is whether or not you’re doing it for the money or as a passion. Myself I chose the former: I like the money, taking months off, pension, benefits, etc but I don’t don’t take much pride in my work (piping/welding QC at oil refineries) or get a real sense of accomplishment out of it.

Excellent point.

Peace of mind is worth a lot of money. It can't be fun and laid back all the time, and early on in one's learning/ apprenticeship, lots of effort and time may be required, but think about the long game. Become proficient in several aspects of your trade, so that later in your career, you can choose what you do and command a premium price for your work, whether that price is denominated in time, money, schedule, etc.

 

[magaman]

I've reached out about some union apprenticeship opportunities for plumbing and HVAC in my area. I'm supposed to go down to their office in a couple weeks to fill out some more paperwork. The thing about the trades is that it takes time to really learn and become proficient in the field, it doesn't happen overnight. It's true that some people just "click" to it better than others but most people aren't just going to be alone, out on their own, working magic and "field ready" in a few months or a year, especially when the job market usually commands 2-3 years of experience for a lot of positions. Good things worth having take time and patience. I tried my hand at some plumbing a few months ago, I picked up on some aspects of it and did pretty good for what I was but it was also clear I needed real training and the guy I was working with just did not have the time, even though he was trying to teach me everything as he could but the job was also very fast paced customer service related so you know how that goes..

 

[Celibate Warrior21]

I can second everything you wrote about the military except for this line. Somebody ought to really thing long and hard before they join. A few of the things that have to be considered:
- False accusations of sexual assault are rampant (not that real sexual assault isn't), and it's not like the civilian world where they can just fire you and that's the end of it. And now that all the jobs have been opened up to women, and the admission standards lowered accordingly, there's no avoiding them.
- Depending on your branch and rating/mos, it ranges from possible to very likely that you'll work for absolute retards who have way too much control over your life.
- Adultery is so common it's mind-boggling. Between that and getting deployed/underway, the divorce rate is sky high. Basically, if you want a good marriage you'll need to delay that until you're out.

Not that people shouldn't join, especially people with useless degrees, but the cons have to be kept in mind.

It's true especially the adultery part.

I was in the Air Force and I've seen a few of my colleagues got out of marriages because of extra marital affairs. The Military is like the Odyssey man, it has plenty of pit falls and traps but if you make it, it can be very rewarding.

 

[NoMoreTO]

One thing to consider when picking a trade as a career is whether or not you’re doing it for the money or as a passion. Myself I chose the former: I like the money, taking months off, pension, benefits, etc but I don’t don’t take much pride in my work (piping/welding QC at oil refineries) or get a real sense of accomplishment out of it.

Yes - this is why my young relative wants to do cabinetry. I respect it. He might regret it, but he can switch over to carpentry later if he wants. He doesn't seem to be all about the money at this point. He'll be able to make a decision later on and switch out if he wants.

I'm not in a skilled trade, but professional - which I chose for money. The money motivated me for a solid 10 years, but sometimes I find myself dreading the thought of signing onto a LT contract, just because it is boring. I find it harder to stay fully engaged like I used to, especially with work from home. This has in a way caused my career to stagnate, while others are learning new systems, I've decided to ride it out on the older system I work with. I just don't want to start over again so to speak. Hoping to transition onto other things over the next 5-10 years.

 

[BeatUpTruck]

Nice work! Looks great!

Thanks. It’ll be for sale next week. Located in a high traffic resort area with local property management campanies available to serve... for all you investors out there...

 

[aeroektar]

I'd choose welding. The company I work for hires a welder to come in and do work that we can't do. These welders are self employed and charge $100 an hour or more. Some of these guys could be charging $150 no problem. They are experienced and talented welders. But there isn't enough of them around here to keep up with the demand. We now have younger less experienced guys popping up with cheap harbor freight welding setups looking to take on work and they'll get it and be making a good living right away. You could learn the necessary skills to do this in a few months with dedication and a welding setup.

welding is also an awesome skill, there's so many applications, so much value you can produce, and so many cool rewarding projects you could take on.

 

[scotian]

There’s some start up costs associated with becoming an independent “rig welder”: the truck, welder (machine), tools, etc. These costs can be in the $80,000-100,000 range but if you’re making $100/hour then it’s definitely worth the investment, as you say, there’s no shortage of work.

 

[Laner]

A young relative is interested in Cabinet Making.

It seems like Carpentry would be the more practical choice, but to each their own. You're only young once and he'll get this start in something solid.

Anyone have any thoughts on Cabinet making in particular? A friend of mine who works in carpentry/home reno and has made cabinets seems to think that you are really only catering to the super high end luxury market. Ultimately, it's not an easy path.

My brother is a cabinet maker. He has been running a shop for about 15 years now, mostly doing high end, custom, solid wood. They work with a stone shop on projects who do all the stone counters. My brother's shop does solid surface and laminate counter tops.

Its pretty dependent on tooling to make good money. Some of their CNC is costly, but over years it makes them a lot of cash. Out of the carpentry trades, I feel it might be the 'nicest' work, but not the best paid. Business is booming right now, but they are not expanding and instead giving longer lead times as they feel like there will be a slowdown looming and don't want to try and hire more guys.

I'd choose welding. The company I work for hires a welder to come in and do work that we can't do. These welders are self employed and charge $100 an hour or more. Some of these guys could be charging $150 no problem. They are experienced and talented welders. But there isn't enough of them around here to keep up with the demand. We now have younger less experienced guys popping up with cheap harbor freight welding setups looking to take on work and they'll get it and be making a good living right away. You could learn the necessary skills to do this in a few months with dedication and a welding setup.

welding is also an awesome skill, there's so many applications, so much value you can produce, and so many cool rewarding projects you could take on.

One of my welding machines just passed $1m in revenue. I paid $2200 for it in 2007 and besides argon and consumables I haven't spent a cent on it since. By far the best investment I have ever made. And I am not even a full time welder.

 

[joost]

The thing about the trades is that it takes time to really learn and become proficient in the field, it doesn't happen overnight. It's true that some people just "click" to it better than others but most people aren't just going to be alone, out on their own, working magic and "field ready" in a few months or a year, especially when the job market usually commands 2-3 years of experience for a lot of positions.

You can do some basic courses that don't cost much and you can join the Seafarers International Union to become a Steward Assistant. You'll make beds for some officers, help cook (cut vegetables), do dishes, etc making a decent wage ($5k I think if you do overtime). After 200 days of sea time you can go to school (for free) to become Cook. I think another year or two you can return to the school to become Steward and make $12k/month.

Deck and Engine department have more upside (including becoming officers) but takes longer. But as explained, becoming a steward doesn't take long and you make good money. It's not for everyone, obviously.

 

[magaman]

You can do some basic courses that don't cost much and you can join the Seafarers International Union to become a Steward Assistant. You'll make beds for some officers, help cook (cut vegetables), do dishes, etc making a decent wage ($5k I think if you do overtime). After 200 days of sea time you can go to school (for free) to become Cook. I think another year or two you can return to the school to become Steward and make $12k/month.

Deck and Engine department have more upside (including becoming officers) but takes longer. But as explained, becoming a steward doesn't take long and you make good money. It's not for everyone, obviously.

I had no idea that this was even a thing. I looked it up and have been reading about the Seafarers International Union on their website and I have to say that it looks interesting. Definitely something I'm going to consider and continue reading about. Thank you for sharing this info