iamdegaussed
Kingfisher
"I call it the Dating Apocalypse,” says a woman in New York, aged 29."
Heh. That says it all.
Heh. That says it all.
Tinder and the Dating Apocolypse
- Thread starter JayR
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ManVsMachine
Robin
mikado said:
Fully agree.
The most attractive pictures of guys to women are of them with girls (preselection) and guys out doing interesting and fun things.
In both cases, most guys aren't around taking pictures like the hens are. I have a very close friend who understands this and he will always group up girls together and take a picture with him. Can't knock his hustle!
. If you climb a mountain for a gorgeous view, you aren't taking a picture of yourself, you're taking a picture of the beauty of nature. However, the girls will. Probably doing some stupid yoga pose on a mountain top.To men, the background and nature is the medium. To women, they themselves are the medium.
It's very "guy vs girl behavior" only in this case, guys are in some ways shooting themselves in the foot. Couple that with the fact that most guys don't know how to take pictures, or don't sit around snapping themselves several hundred times until they get the right one. Have you watched a chick take a snapchat "selfie"? It isn't a one-and-done deal. Even in groups, hens will repetitively take pictures like they had OCD until they got one they liked
.Finally, female standards for looks are much higher than male standards for looks.....see the graph above, and the full study here: http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/your-looks-and-online-dating/
kazz said:void said:
Statistics from OkCupid. Take Tinder as OkCupid on steroids and even being in the top 25% does not guarantee any play to a man.
Am I reading this graph wrong or does it show that the medium rated men get more msgs than the most attractive?
That's how I'm reading it too. Which is somewhat perplexing. I can understand that slightly above average looking men might (on some dating sites) get a good chunk of messages initiated by women (though in this case it would presumably be the slight below average men who are mercilessly chased), but that the best looking guys apparently get almost none in comparison is hard to believe.
OKC managed to stamp out hypergamy through clever subliminal web adverts?
^ It's because ugly women don't send messages to the hottest guys. Average guys get lots of ugly women messaging them.
Also, OKCupid did another study that showed the second most attractive guy in their list got the most responses, not the first. Regardless I bet you the hottest guy got the hottest girls.
Also, OKCupid did another study that showed the second most attractive guy in their list got the most responses, not the first. Regardless I bet you the hottest guy got the hottest girls.
MikeS said:
It's not perplexing when you realize that only below-average looking women are taking the initiative to send messages on dating sites. Every woman who is better than average looking has no need to do so, as her inbox is getting slammed and she has her pick of guys to choose from already. Ugly women, however, are getting much less attention, and the attention they do get is very low quality. Most women who are 2s, 3s, and 4s have no illusions of landing a man who is an 8 or above. Thus they aim their messages at guys they deem more average looking (and who are technically still above their corresponding SMV) because they correctly assume they will be more likely to get a response.
Apollo21
Woodpecker
Considering how many women live in New York, Tinder doesn't really reflect the actual dating market.
Tinder(and other Dating Apps) are artificial environments that usually favor women. It's like playing
an away game(for guys) where you don't always have a home field advantage. You can still win. You just have
to adjust your game.
As for power, anyone man or woman has the power to say yes, no or walk away if they don't like something.
There is no inequality when it comes to dating. Just people making decisions. If a guy can't get dates living in one city
he simply goes to the next one, and the next one. Until he gets what he wants.
If a girl complains she can't find a man, chances are she's not really trying that hard.
Tinder(and other Dating Apps) are artificial environments that usually favor women. It's like playing
an away game(for guys) where you don't always have a home field advantage. You can still win. You just have
to adjust your game.
As for power, anyone man or woman has the power to say yes, no or walk away if they don't like something.
There is no inequality when it comes to dating. Just people making decisions. If a guy can't get dates living in one city
he simply goes to the next one, and the next one. Until he gets what he wants.
If a girl complains she can't find a man, chances are she's not really trying that hard.
Feldeinsamkeit
Kingfisher
CH-Toronto said:
It's the arrogance and delusion that comes from being power drunk, something that can also be witnessed in tinpot dictators who are shielded from reality by their inner circle of yes men until they eventually bite off more than they can chew and reality bites them on the arse.
ManVsMachine
Robin
Apollo21 said:
Here's another truth. NYC is much like SF in that the majority of, quite frankly overpaid, soft-skill jobs are only offered to women and good-ol'-boy nepotist finance jobs are offered to a select few men, and this is the vast majority of people living in the desirable areas of the city. Only with SF, replace the nepotist finance types with more of Silicon valley startup scene - although SF has finance of its own - which is bad in other ways.
No one else can afford living there. You will have a few of the artistic class - photographers, models who have agents, musicians, and students who will be gone soon - who will fill out the rest of the closet-sized studio apartments - and that's it.
It's gotten to the point where millennial women get paid MORE than men in these cities: http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/young-women-new-york-earn-male-peers-study-article-1.2110245
This article fails also because it uses average, NOT median to determine pay. The skewing of the average is from a select few young men who are making solid six-figure salaries - and *even then* the girls still get paid more.
Both cities have a hidden underclass (Tenderloin and South SFO in SF, and Flatbush and many other scattered parts in each burrough of NY) which are irrelevant until one of the privileged class gets robbed there.
What it does is create an unbelievably great situation for the guys who can afford living there - and you find some guys take up a horrible standard of living just to experience the abundance of women. I can't say too much for NYC because I hated my stay there and only visit for very short periods of time, but in SF oftentimes you would get opened by a girl if you were at the right bar or club. Tinder would work if you are one of the fratty types living in the Marina, but if not you still need not worry.
I'm no online dating expert, but a friend of mine who gets reasonable quality women IRL and through online dating (7s), gets messages from the most butt-heinous, fat, old women to the point where it rattles his confidence.
He's 6'0, 37 years old, slim, decent job and looks, and as I said, pulls at least decent looking, fit women IRL.
But good lord some of the women who message him (he texts me the 'winners'). Many are several years older, many are morbidly obese, or both. It's insane.
There is an overall moral to all of this, and that is as a man, you have to make your own way. It's our natural instincts as hunters/gatherer. I tell him to keep the faith because at least he is fairly successful in the women he pursues and to not let the gargoyles and buffaloes that pursue him to get him down.
He's 6'0, 37 years old, slim, decent job and looks, and as I said, pulls at least decent looking, fit women IRL.
But good lord some of the women who message him (he texts me the 'winners'). Many are several years older, many are morbidly obese, or both. It's insane.
There is an overall moral to all of this, and that is as a man, you have to make your own way. It's our natural instincts as hunters/gatherer. I tell him to keep the faith because at least he is fairly successful in the women he pursues and to not let the gargoyles and buffaloes that pursue him to get him down.
ManVsMachine
Robin
The Wire said:
http://jonmillward.com/blog/attraction-dating/cupid-on-trial-a-4-month-online-dating-experiment/
I'm guessing this is the one because it has been written about and cited much in the "'sphere" since it came out.
I do find the "hottest guy" the judges picked the most attractive one of the bunch,
but I don't fully agree with the point Samseau was getting at that girls don't pursue the very hottest men, because the hottest guy voted appears to be mixed race. Reminds me of a better looking Tony Parker. OKTrends also did another study proving the fact that minorities don't do so well in Online dating, and being mixed does not make one immune.
The reason being, I presume, is that there are a few extra cognitive steps made in pursuing relations with a person online versus getting approached in the moment. But this is my opinion and feel free to disagree!
I'm sure he does great in real life, barring confidence/internal issues, but he's probably Left-swiped more often than not on Tinder. Or more likely, his tinder matches don't respond to his messages.
Grit
Kingfisher
Flip the script and the article title becomes: "How hundreds of women failed to convince these few men to have a relationship."
The real double standard is not asking the men the easy question "what would it take for you to be in a relationship with a tinder girl". Maybe they do ask and the journalistic overlords redact it.
The real double standard is not asking the men the easy question "what would it take for you to be in a relationship with a tinder girl". Maybe they do ask and the journalistic overlords redact it.
ManVsMachine said:
The problem is I can't zoom in on the top guy they rated so I don't know what the hell he's wearing or the actual photo situation. The white guy has a professional Paul Janka look going on for him with a button up shirt with a tie on and using a side profile shot. For all I know the other guy is wearing an Affliction tshirt holding a bud light to his chest.
Hottest guys don't get the most emails its the guys with the best pics. Best pics do directly coincide with someone's attractiveness though. Meaning a big fat slob looking like Chris Christie can wear a $2000 suit and still suck. The better looking you are the harder it is for your pics to be unattractive. Also height plays a factor as well meaning women do not get discriminated on with height for the most part but men will lose points probably every inch under 6ft for the most part. If they made the white guy 6'2" instead of 5'10" his responses would go up as would the other guy.
ManVsMachine
Robin
The Wire said:
Great post. I can't disagree with anything you said here. It does add a confound to the story that I did not fully acknowledge.
*However*, with that being said, the data-conscious folks over at OKTrends have already measured this disparity with a significantly larger sample size than anyone else can provide: http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/your-race-affects-whether-people-write-you-back/
From personal experience, when I spent a fair amount of time trying to help FA (self-dubbed 'foreveralone') individuals on the bodybuilding forums between 2011-2013, I noticed this trend as well. As such, I advised the white guys I helped out to use Tinder as a supplement their approaching and meeting women, and I advised minorities to stay off the service altogether as I did notice it was doing them a greater detriment to their self-esteem which was furthering their issues. In lieu of internet dating, I advised to spend that additional time in mixed group settings (co-ed sports, for example). In both cases, the young men were using online dating too much. But that's the last I'll say on race to spoil this thread.
I also agree with you on the point about height, but this study kept them consistent:
The Study said:
JayR said:
I'm pretty sure Rollo Tomassi has said that exact thing.
Rollo has definitely said that women are the gatekeepers of sex, men are the gatekeepers of commitment.
Based on the article, there are a lot of young women going out looking for sex and hoping to land a commitment, and are disappointed that men have caught onto the idea that there's no point buying the cow when the milk is free.
The Wire said:
I am pretty sure that is Paul Janka wearing the Paul Janka look.
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