To carry a gun or not?

FrancisK

Pelican
Catholic
Gold Member
I'm not really a handgun guy, in fact I've never owned one. Lots of shotguns and rifles but never a handgun.

Many of my friends have concealed carry permits, my technical reason not to have one was because I never wanted my fingerprints on file. But besides that I always felt like I didn't want to live a life where I needed to carry a gun. I'm 6'1 230-240lbs on any given day in the gym 5 days a week and a former college wrestler, it's very rare for someone to challenge me and i normally would not put myself in a place where I have to fear for my safety anyway. Also my business is in a very secure safe area and not open to the public, no need for a gun there either but I do keep a shotgun in my office...you never know.

But to just have a gun on me at all times or in my glove compartment in my car is a different animal. The thing is the way the world is now I feel like it's almost becoming necessary. I also drive an exotic car which I feel like has made me a bit of a target, losers love to mess with me when I drive it. But I refuse to give up something that makes me happy to appease idiocy. I feel like everyone in Michigan these days have a gun on them and unfortunately it's mainly the people who you don't want having a gun on them.

I would sincerely appreciate all of your thoughts on this....thank you.
 

BasilSeal

Kingfisher
Catholic
Gold Member
I also drive an exotic car which I feel like has made me a bit of a target, losers love to mess with me when I drive it.
How would having a handgun help?

I personally think everyone should have a carry permit. Demand all of your freedoms, if you can. In the same manner, I would suggest everyone have a current passport, even if you never intend to travel. There is little downside.

Now, whether or not they choose to own a gun, or carry one, I really couldn't say. As you said, it would depend largely on your risk tolerance, and your level of responsibility and maturity.

Everyone, whether they own a gun or not, should be trained on how to safely handle one.
 

get2choppaaa

Hummingbird
Orthodox
Carrry a gun on you all the time that you can. In the store, in the gas station, in the mall, in the walmart, in the bar (just kidding... but maybe... *NOT LEGAL ADVICE*) at the zoo, at lunch, at Church, Literally everywhere you go.
Being a stout dude has nothing to do with it if someone walks up to you and pulls a gun. Now looking like a hard target is absolutely a good thing... but yes, you need to own a gun and carry it on your person.

I got robbed at gunpoint when I was 16. That set me on a completely different trajectory from where I was... Promised myself I would never be a victim again and cerainly as a father and a husband, I have to ensure the safety of my family.
So in short. Geta gat peice, get some training, and carry that gun everywhere you go.
 

Helmsman

Robin
Protestant
You never know when the moment will come when you'll have to defend yourself and yours against deadly force. Get a CCW/LTC/CHL whatever and carry. Train and be proficient in using your weapon. Look at the very recent example of Elisjsha Dicken. At a mall with his girlfriend, a shooter showed up and he scored 8/10 hits at a range of 40yds. Saved a mess of lives and protected his woman. Carry.


 

prisonplanet

Robin
Other Christian
I don't have a gun. Won't ever have one. Many Christians use Luke 22 as proof we should own one. That's fine. You do you. I don't like guns. I tolerated using them in the military, and that was that for me.
 

presidentcarter

Ostrich
Protestant
Gold Member
I don't have a gun. Won't ever have one. Many Christians use Luke 22 as proof we should own one. That's fine. You do you. I don't like guns. I tolerated using them in the military, and that was that for me.
I don't knock you for your decision. Your safety and that of your loved ones is still in your hands though.

So, what's your plan if bad guys show up ready to enslave your wife and children and murder you. They're not always there to take your jewelry and cash and leave peacefully. I understand that prayer and trust in God is the priority, but when the moment of crisis arises, what action will you take to save yourself and others? The firearm is the 'great equalizer' so I don't really view 'I'll grab a knife and give it all I've got' as a viable action, which is the attitude I see from many folks.

Again nothing at all against your choice, I'm just genuinely curious. The responsibility is not for everyone and that should be acknowledged.
 

prisonplanet

Robin
Other Christian
I don't knock you for your decision. Your safety and that of your loved ones is still in your hands though.

So, what's your plan if bad guys show up ready to enslave your wife and children and murder you. They're not always there to take your jewelry and cash and leave peacefully. I understand that prayer and trust in God is the priority, but when the moment of crisis arises, what action will you take to save yourself and others? The firearm is the 'great equalizer' so I don't really view 'I'll grab a knife and give it all I've got' as a viable action, which is the attitude I see from many folks.

Again nothing at all against your choice, I'm just genuinely curious. The responsibility is not for everyone and that should be acknowledged.

For one thing, I just never liked guns. I could never pinpoint why. Now, I know that's not enough reason for me because like you said, there could come a certain point where no doubt a gun would be a great tool.

I would say one more thing kind of sealed the deal. Let me preface by saying I know this isn't a "good" reason in the sense that everyone has a different experience. I fully understand guns have value.

About five years ago I made a friend who was a Salvation Army chaplain and he ended up being the guy who led me to Christ. One day we were at a VA facility and a veteran brought a bunch of guns, I think two assault rifles and a handgun, intending to shoot up the place. Cops came, SWAT, whole nine yards, and there was a standoff. After maybe three hours it was the chaplain who just walked right up to the vet, gun in his face, and talked him down. He said God loves him and has plans for him, etc. However on-the-fence I might have been beforehand, I was definitely sure after that day that I don't want a gun.

Again, I'm all for our right to bear arms. Some of my best friends today have guns, etc. But I tend to think sometimes there's almost too much pressure on men to carry. I think like any other freedom, we all should get to make our own decision. I'm just not a gun guy. I try to stay in good shape at least, and I have a dog. It's enough for me. If I get married, maybe I'll get another dog or two
 

FrancisK

Pelican
Catholic
Gold Member
How would having a handgun help?

I personally think everyone should have a carry permit. Demand all of your freedoms, if you can. In the same manner, I would suggest everyone have a current passport, even if you never intend to travel. There is little downside.

Now, whether or not they choose to own a gun, or carry one, I really couldn't say. As you said, it would depend largely on your risk tolerance, and your level of responsibility and maturity.

Everyone, whether they own a gun or not, should be trained on how to safely handle one.


The stupid car isn't what is compelling me to start carrying it's just an example. My reason to consider carrying all of a sudden is the state the world is in, the crazies are permeating normal life more and more.

Thank you for the replies everyone. Honestly being able to protect the people I love is a huge consideration for me I take pride in being able to do that and just being a subjectively big guy isn't really cutting it anymore. People, young idiots especially, simply have no fear of anything anymore....

Not going to lie the idea of carrying a gun everywhere sucks though, I don't take any macho pride out of it if anything I think it makes me less to have to carry a gun but it is what it is I suppose. Terrible that it appears to have come that, not really how I want to live but I also don't want to die for some lunatic weirdo loser...
 
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rainy

Pelican
Other Christian
I wouldn't.

Big proponent of having guns in your home to protect you, your family and your property. And self defense laws are far better for a home owner in the case of an intruder.

But having a gun on neutral ground in public? If you pull it better be prepared to use it. And if so, the consequences could easily be left in the hands of a jury made up of far left lunatics.

And at your size you should be intimidating enough if need be, that you'd be passed on for an easier target.

My take is, avoid confrontation and escalation in public, but defend your home and family with an iron fist.
 

prisonplanet

Robin
Other Christian
My take is, avoid confrontation and escalation in public, but defend your home and family with an iron fist.

My ex from South Africa gave me a good home defense tip. She said the custom in SA is to have at least two dogs. You get a small yapper and a big physical one. Small dogs are light sleepers but noisy (watch dogs). Big dogs are deep sleepers but provide physical defense. She couldn't believe how many people in the U.S. just get multiple big dogs with no small yappers. They work like a team. Small dog wakes up big dog and says get to work. If you've got a big property, maybe get two "teams."
 

Max Roscoe

Ostrich
Orthodox Inquirer
I'm not really a handgun guy, in fact I've never owned one. Lots of shotguns and rifles but never a handgun.

Many of my friends have concealed carry permits, my technical reason not to have one was because I never wanted my fingerprints on file. But besides that I always felt like I didn't want to live a life where I needed to carry a gun.
You and I are in the same vein 100%. The handgun is the primary weapon of the street criminal so I've always felt much more comfortable with rifles and shotguns, and I don't really want any sort of extra permission from my government, even if a handgun permit is a cheap and easy thing to obtain. Plus I don't like the idea of being on any lists other than a voter roll.

I don't even like living in a neighborhood where I have to lock my doors (I rarely locked mine even last year; but starting to do it every time now, as crime is ramping up nationwide and locally.) When we grew up (in the same city) our doors were never locked unless we went on vacation, and our door didn't even have a deadbolt.

To me that is real freedom. If I had to carry a gun on my hip everywhere because there is a reasonable liklihood I will have to blow away some thug, that to me is the sign of a failed society and I would strongly consider moving. At the same time, things are getting grim out there, so I understand the reconsideration you are having.

Perhaps it was my nice suburban white safe healthy and happy upbringing, and that world is long gone now, but still I just can't accept living in a place where you need to be armed at all times everywhere you go.

I think it's a personal thing: Some people love having a gun on their hip, some people don't or even think it's weird (to me it's definitely weird in certain settings--like the guy who recently wore a gun on his hip to a photo shoot in a studio here--I guess maybe one of the models could have gone for his wallet? Those types of people in my experience are the ones who have an unhealthy attraction to weaponry). To me it's like visiting some of the more dangerous countries I've been to, where the cops are in bullet proof vests with assault rifles-- it's sign that you're in a not so safe an area. Sounds to me like you are more in the latter camp.

Of course some of it is cultural... If I lived in Texas I would probably have a gun, as that is just the culture there. I live in a similar state but we don't have the TX gun culture, where old grandmas and schoolkids all have guns, just 'cause.

If you are still on the fence, I will echo what @rainy said above: The St Louis couple and Kyle Rittenhouse case proved that using weapons outside your home (in the McCloskey's case that meant as far as being on their own patio) is an extremely dangerous action. The McCloskey's merely held a gun while walking out to see who the intruders were in their neighborhood. Kyle used a weapon in self defense against a sex predator with a criminal record who was trying to kill him, and his legal actions were supported by video, and he still went to trial as if he were the criminal, and almost went to prison. You think the theoretical person you are going to shoot is going to be in a superior circumstance to those?
 

BasilSeal

Kingfisher
Catholic
Gold Member
I would second what @rainy said and add that, in defending your home, you can be fairly certain that you understand the situation almost completely. You can much more easily make a snap decision about the threat, with a high likelihood of being correct.

In public, this is just not the case. Until or unless someone else pulls out a gun and starts firing, your gun better remain concealed. In the best case, the justice system may see it your way, and history may be on your side. But the worst case is not that you go to prison because of a jury.

The worst case is that you need to live with decisions you regret. And, that may include killing a bystander, or misreading a situation (airsoft, etc) because of split second judgement you made that you can never take back. Having the situational awareness to quickly differentiate or identify threat(s) in public and do all the right things is a lot less likely than the scenarios in your mind.

For this reason, I highly advocate training and practice, and gun safety (even people who hate guns should know safety protocols if they were to come across one). If you do envision yourself as the hero of the story who hits 8/10 at 40yds, then go try that at the range. If you can't do it even in the best conditions, it is far less likely you will do it under extreme pressure.

Suppose that you hit 6/10 at that distance, which is very respectable,
just under half of your shots hit something that you didn't intend them to hit. This works at a gun range because you know your target, and what is behind it. Notably, nothing is in motion. Not you, the target itself, not the environment around it.

In public, everything is moving, including you. There is almost no completely safe direction to fire a gun, even if aimed directly at your target.
 
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Arturo80

Sparrow
Orthodox
I wouldn't.

Big proponent of having guns in your home to protect you, your family and your property. And self defense laws are far better for a home owner in the case of an intruder.

But having a gun on neutral ground in public? If you pull it better be prepared to use it. And if so, the consequences could easily be left in the hands of a jury made up of far left lunatics.

And at your size you should be intimidating enough if need be, that you'd be passed on for an easier target.

My take is, avoid confrontation and escalation in public, but defend your home and family with an iron fist.

Not an American, and it does seem this subject is very region specific, but i feel this advice is sensible.

What does it take to get out of a murder / manslaughter charge, in a self defence case, against the Usual Suspects these days?

Seems to be getting to the point you need cell phone footage for 14 different angles, zero edgy social media content of your own, & the 'victim' to having been a literal convicted pedophile, and that's just to scrape a non-guilty.
 

kruger41

Sparrow
I'm not really a handgun guy, in fact I've never owned one. Lots of shotguns and rifles but never a handgun.

Many of my friends have concealed carry permits, my technical reason not to have one was because I never wanted my fingerprints on file. But besides that I always felt like I didn't want to live a life where I needed to carry a gun. I'm 6'1 230-240lbs on any given day in the gym 5 days a week and a former college wrestler, it's very rare for someone to challenge me and i normally would not put myself in a place where I have to fear for my safety anyway. Also my business is in a very secure safe area and not open to the public, no need for a gun there either but I do keep a shotgun in my office...you never know.

But to just have a gun on me at all times or in my glove compartment in my car is a different animal. The thing is the way the world is now I feel like it's almost becoming necessary. I also drive an exotic car which I feel like has made me a bit of a target, losers love to mess with me when I drive it. But I refuse to give up something that makes me happy to appease idiocy. I feel like everyone in Michigan these days have a gun on them and unfortunately it's mainly the people who you don't want having a gun on them.

I would sincerely appreciate all of your thoughts on this....thank you.

Get one. Go to a range that has rentals and try a bunch out. It's hard to get a sense of which pistols work for you without shooting one. Get one in a common caliber, and avoid anything exotic. 9mm, 40 S&W, 45 ACP, 38 SPL, or 357 Magnum. Whatever you pick, make sure you're comfortable with recoil. Buy defensive hollowpoint ammunition for self defense purposes, but buy whatever is on sale for practice.

You need to practice with whatever you buy. Take some courses, and go to an in-person CCW course. They will explain your legal liability in your jurisdiction. You need to understand what will happen if you are in a self defense shooting, from a legal perspective (See: Rittenhouse, Zimmerman).

You don't need anything especially sophisticated. Bernie Goetz did just fine against four guys with a five-shot 38 revolver (I carry one myself). Bring enough extra ammunition to reload at least once.


I'd also recommend carrying a folding knife. Spend between 50-100$, get a Spyderco or similar. Don't get a knife with serrations.

Ruger LCR.jpeg
 

Dr Mantis Toboggan

Pelican
Catholic
Gold Member
My ex from South Africa gave me a good home defense tip. She said the custom in SA is to have at least two dogs. You get a small yapper and a big physical one. Small dogs are light sleepers but noisy (watch dogs). Big dogs are deep sleepers but provide physical defense. She couldn't believe how many people in the U.S. just get multiple big dogs with no small yappers. They work like a team. Small dog wakes up big dog and says get to work. If you've got a big property, maybe get two "teams."

Love West Highland Terriers as an early warning system. They're small (usually 15-20lbs full grown) but unlike most small dogs are tough little bastards--they were bred to hunt everything from rodents as individuals up to badgers and foxes in teams so they're also good for rodent control when not keeping the midnight watch.

Maybe not so good for guys with home gardens though unless you can keep the dog away!

dog-518805.jpg
 

Easy_C

Peacock
Not an American, and it does seem this subject is very region specific, but i feel this advice is sensible.

What does it take to get out of a murder / manslaughter charge, in a self defence case, against the Usual Suspects these days?

Seems to be getting to the point you need cell phone footage for 14 different angles, zero edgy social media content of your own, & the 'victim' to having been a literal convicted pedophile, and that's just to scrape a non-guilty.

Realistically: your best bet is to pick based on demographics. There are a number of studies which indicate that some jury demographics will very consistently decide their verdicts based on racial lines.
 

DanielH

Ostrich
Moderator
Orthodox
I actually asked my Godmother about this yesterday, she said it's better to carry, even in situations where you're not "supposed" to, because people are crazy now and as a father you will not forgive yourself if something happens to your family because you weren't carrying. Seems pretty straightforward to me. Carrying a gun in itself is not a moral issue.
 

Papist

Kingfisher
Trad Catholic
I'm not really a handgun guy, in fact I've never owned one. Lots of shotguns and rifles but never a handgun.

Many of my friends have concealed carry permits, my technical reason not to have one was because I never wanted my fingerprints on file. But besides that I always felt like I didn't want to live a life where I needed to carry a gun. I'm 6'1 230-240lbs on any given day in the gym 5 days a week and a former college wrestler, it's very rare for someone to challenge me and i normally would not put myself in a place where I have to fear for my safety anyway. Also my business is in a very secure safe area and not open to the public, no need for a gun there either but I do keep a shotgun in my office...you never know.

But to just have a gun on me at all times or in my glove compartment in my car is a different animal. The thing is the way the world is now I feel like it's almost becoming necessary. I also drive an exotic car which I feel like has made me a bit of a target, losers love to mess with me when I drive it. But I refuse to give up something that makes me happy to appease idiocy. I feel like everyone in Michigan these days have a gun on them and unfortunately it's mainly the people who you don't want having a gun on them.

I would sincerely appreciate all of your thoughts on this....thank you.

To me that's hilarious! I live in Scotland and the idea is alien to me, but not without merit.

I could not carry a gun legally, and like yourself would not wish to even if I could. I think the temptation to blow my own brains out might be too strong, given the things I read and hear nowadays. That might sound flippant, and it's partly tongue in cheek, but, in all seriousness, there have been times when I'd possibly be tempted. Not intending to blackpill, but it's a very depressing world nowadays.
 
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