Top ten red flags

I don't have a lot of deal-breakers but they're more difficult to overlook especially now that I'm older.

Smoker. Many women are smokers and it's automatic no.

Single mom. Also hard now that I'm in my 50's. Only caveat I would make is if you had adult kids and we were just casually involved. You have a 20 year old that lives in another state? Maybe. You have an 8 year old and the dad is around all the time? Nope.

Loud, bossy man haters. You know the type. No thanks. I'm a grown adult that is capable of conducting my own life. I don't need another mother I don't listen to. Also any feminist SJW's. Way too emotional and unstable.

That really narrows it down doesn't it...
When I met my wife, she had a friend who smoked so she smoked (very lightly) socially. I asked her to stop smoking, which she did, and never picked it up again (and now finds smoking as offensive almost as much as I do.) So yes, there are social smokers who are capable of kicking the habit, but nonetheless, I waited 2 years to marry-her-up so there you go.

And that's perhaps the most important thing: women are big into "red flags" and "deal breakers" and little sh*t tests for the first month. These tests often are either beaten by bad boys or sidestepped altogether. There is no substitute for a reasonably long engagement period particularly in high-risk feminized cultures. The first few dates or even month of courtship can be irrelevant to long term performance. I'm reminded of The Bachelor franchise: Relationships are set to classic Disney style courtship and fantasies (there's literally a "fantasy suite" at the end for pre-marital sex) but when Real Life finally begins, at least 3/4ths of the relationships fizzle out. And this is under ideal circumstances: no financial concerns during courtship, big engagement rings, lavish dream dates, etc.

So the best way to deal with red flags is to see how the person performs during the pre-engagement phase AND handles conflict. For the frst month or so, when women hold all the cards, all bets are off. Even in non-game countries, there's a high demand for young women so they can get away with being spoiled and unreasonable with men they barely know. Essentially, dating a woman, particularly in western countries, is like being a clown at Chuck E Cheese trying to entertain a room full of kids with food they can throw at you.

After emotional connections are made, how does she handle rejection (in the sense of not getting her demands met?) Does she walk off and not come back (there's always a first time, for their little sh*t test, but after that bluff is called, it's moot and mine knew it.) Do they become vindictive? Get drunk and nasty? THAT was a red flag with one girl I dated and I dumped her right away. It was ok for her to be irked at me for not buying her something but she got drunk, smoked, and threatened me so that was that.

Between initial courtship/gaming and actual marriage, there's the period where one can and should set boundaries. How will this person treat you 20 years down the road when you're in sickness and for poorer? If you say you're not going to take them out to an expensive place, do they accept that judgement? (It's ok if they get p*ssed about it. But do they walk?)

I think the primary problem for many western men, particularly the blue pilled, is that they didn't want to look for red flags at all because they were too busy trying to "seal the deal" and pleasing the woman. Most tigers are cute and cuddly if you keep them well fed. Pre-Martial courtship therefore is sort of like flirtation which requires men to slowly build emotional rapport with the woman and then set expectations higher and higher to see what she's capable of. Almost like raising a daughter. General rule of thumb: Before the wedding, the woman should already be PERFORMING up to standards as if she was married to you for 10 years. She should be thinking in terms of budgeting and care about how much going out cost just as much as you do.

Regarding if she has kids. When I was young, it was a deal breaker. In hindsight, I realize I left a lot of good women on the table. Yeah, most of them were attention-whoring bimbos sleeping with bad boys but in my generation at least, some were just nice young women who wanted to start a family and married the first guy who was polite and nice to her. Provided the father of the kid is not a problem AND she knows and takes responsibility for what went wrong, there's potential there. (Hindsight) I'd rather a respectful father relationship with the kid than an absentee loser who gives the kid daddy issues.

As I said in other comment elsewhere, biological clock tickers are another kettle of fish and in some ways, more dangerous than (decent) single mothers. Particularly in the west, there's a toxic stew of caveats: Is she 30 and has baby rabies and nervous issues? Has she been frigid that whole time and focused on her career? Did she sleep with a lot of chads and is now looking to "settle" but may never be satisfied?

Ideally, a young man should marry at the age of 23 or so to a young woman that age or younger, that he's known for a few years at least, but in these times of austerity, that may not be possible for most.
 
Feminism seems to be an almost universal red flag, and taking into consideration that most overtly self-identifying feminists sport rainbow hair and obscene piercings this isn’t surprising, but I’d argue that it is up for reconsideration; feminism for some women (and this, to my mind, is the correct form of feminism, the one that truly ‘empowers’ women) means embracing their femininity and womanhood, not chasing after superficial, male defined standards of success - a woman won’t find happiness or fulfilment in pursuing a stereotypically masculine, hedonistic lifestyle. Logically it would follow that if feminism seeks to empower women to achieve their purpose in life it would rather encourage them to be more feminine and and seek fulfilment in raising a family etc.
 
These are mine:

-Tattoos
-Smoking/DRUGS/alcohol
-Poor relationship with family (Father)
-Discontent
-Heavy social media use
-Liberal beliefs
-High body count: preferably no body count
-Has used online dating
-Considers herself a career woman

The reality is most women in the United States are broken because of our culture....because of our men.....it's reality.
 

Hindu Man

Sparrow
Mine are:

1.Tattoos
2. Smoking/DRUGS/alcohol
3.Very active on Instagram (500 or more followers)
4.Has a lot of guy friends
5.Has at least 2 sexual partners (which is 99% of American women lol)
6.Studied abroad during college in Spain/Italy/Argentina/etc (and probably got banged by tons of local men in those countries) :squintlol:
 

JamalH

Pigeon
1. Russian women (I've dated one and had one as a friend and they were both the most materialistic women I've ever known)
2. Blondes above a 4 (entitled brats who never say please and thank you. Nowadays they all have a high notch count)
3. Isnt feminine (just because she's dressed feminine doesn't mean she is feminine)
4. FEMINIST
5. Lazy (doesnt cook, doesnt clean/messy)
6. Has male "friends"
7. Likes to party and go out and always be doing something
8. Likes to gossip
9. Atheist
10. She wants to be FWB (99.9% chance she's screwing you AND at least one other man)
 
Ideally, a young man should marry at the age of 23 or so to a young woman that age or younger, that he's known for a few years at least, but in these times of austerity, that may not be possible for most.
[/QUOTE]

I was raised as a Mormon, but even there, I was told by a Mormon professional marriage counselor (speaking for herself, not the MC) that young men and women should wait until at least age 25 to get married, so they can better know themselves. But still, I saw many Mormon kids get hitched several years before the quarter century mark of their life. A fair number of guys got married right after they got home from their two year mission, to the girlfriend who patiently waited. It was always funny how at the start of a mission, a guy would worry that the gf would dump him for another guy, but then as his mission neared it's end, he would worry about the gf still waiting for him, and expecting to get married as her reward for waiting! Lol

When it comes to austerity, Mormon leaders would teach the young people to expect financial challenge and hard times, during the early years of marriage and child rearing, but to be strong as they furthered their educations and careers. Many Mormon youth marry in their junior or senior year of college, or a few years after school. I find it ironic when worldly couples, who are very well paid professionals, complain that they simply cannot afford having children! LOL What they choose not to do, is lower their standard of living, for the sake of having kids. This is so common in the big cities. I view them with disgust, and as harbingers of the decline of the West. But then I never had kids of my own, but in large part due to the many divorces of my mother, and the mothers of my close friends. I felt scarred, despite being raised Mormon.

Traditionally, Mormon women stayed home to be housewives, but now the pressure is so great for two income families, that MC leaders do not plead with them any longer to permanently stay home. But for a long time they did. The view now is that the woman should get her degree/education, marry, have some babies, and when the kids are old enough, she can enter/re-enter the workforce. But adultery is a much more discussed subject now, especially female infidelity, considering the two earner social dynamic. The MC has it's own professional counseling service, where members can get inexpensive or even free therapy, depending on their means. With so many Mormon women working, this is needed more than ever.

As for red flags, a classic one is where the woman dresses immodestly. Showing mid-riff, super-tight pants and shirts, sexually suggestive words and graphics on her clothes, are like firing off a flare to get attention from other men. And social media exponentially increases the effects of this headache. In the past I have had several gf's with this problem, and it nearly got me into a fight with a group of guys inside a movie theater, years ago.
 
I've written about how rare porn was in the '80s when I was young. When I was in fifth and sixth grade, I lived near a kid who would sneak looks at his dad's Playboys and share them with me and some other friends.

But no one was doing this by ninth grade. The only place you could get dirty magazines was at the convenience store. And we definitely DID NOT buy them there, because the clerks knew our parents or our brothers or someone.

That meant going out of town. But if you did that, you still had to look the clerk in the eye. Who wanted to do this? Plus, they'd "card" you, and if you were underage, there was the fear they'd call the cops. Back then, cops had little to do but bust you for crap like speeding and skateboarding (!!) so it was not a leap to think they'd step in if you tried to buy porn underage.

And so, I went through all of high school and most of college without seeing ANY porn. At all. It was actually easier to date a girl and have actual real sex. I kid you not.

My first exposure to a porn movie came when I was 21 and the dorm I was in had some sort of "theme night" and they showed a dirty movie. It done ironically and people laughed at it and cracked jokes. Some guys from the dorm showed up in bathrobes, Hugh Hefner-style. No one took any of this seriously or participated in what we now call porn culture.

Why? First of all, it was inconvenient, as noted. Second, there was MAJOR stigma. If you liked porn, you were a loser nerd.

Finally, there is one point that gets overlooked. Back in the '80s, people paired off in high school and college and married soon after. Women were family-oriented, not raised to waste money, time, and ovaries in idiotic "grad school." They wanted marriage practically the day after college graduation and kids in the next year or two. There was no time or desire for porn when you were part of a couple from age 18 (or younger) onward.

It's an entirely different world now.

Yeah, porn has emasculated tons of males out there.

Add porn emasculation for the males, third wave feminism for the females, absurd political correctness when it comes to dating and you got yourself a low marriage success rate and low reproduction rate.

Man, I wish I grew up in the 80's. That would have been awesome, everyone now is too sensitive and politically correct. I recently went to a poetry group on Facebook and an older woman spoke out about how the looting and rioting in the cities were wrong, and I kid you not, there were like 300 something comments of these liberal peeps calling her racist and all sorts of name. She eventually got banned.

It's crazy bro.
 

Days of Broken Arrows

Crow
Gold Member
Yeah, porn has emasculated tons of males out there.

Add porn emasculation for the males, third wave feminism for the females, absurd political correctness when it comes to dating and you got yourself a low marriage success rate and low reproduction rate.

Man, I wish I grew up in the 80's. That would have been awesome, everyone now is too sensitive and politically correct. I recently went to a poetry group on Facebook and an older woman spoke out about how the looting and rioting in the cities were wrong, and I kid you not, there were like 300 something comments of these liberal peeps calling her racist and all sorts of name. She eventually got banned.

It's crazy bro.
That's because people will write things on social media that they'd never say in public. Most people would not say that rioting was good in a crowd because they'd be laughed at or called on it.

Blame social media. It's allowed people to create imaginary online images of themselves that often have nothing to do with how they really are. See how many of those "pro riot" idiots would be pro riot if we came to their neighborhood with brick. On social media, we use our real names, but it's not really us people are seeing.

The '80s were great partially because social media didn't exist! What you saw was what you got. Wimps could not play tough guys because there was no "online." You saw them in person and knew they were wimps. Fat women could not pretend they were thin. There was no photoshop! You saw them in person and went "eeeewww."

By the way, this forum and other anonymous forums actually create honesty. Because if people don't know who we really are, we're free to be real. There is an old saying "Give a man a mask and he'll tell you the truth."

If you look at the history of the World Wide Web, you'll notice it was a fun place when we all had anonymous handles on AOL and Yahoo Messenger. And then Facebook and Twitter started requiring real names. And it all went to crap.
 
- Smoking
- Masculine attributes. Behaves as though attributes like "boldness" and "assertiveness" are attractive traits in a woman
- Keeping short hair
- Restless nature. Always trying to keep herself moving and enjoying things. Inability to remain still.
- Too much focus on social media
- Someone with too many male friends / followers
- Tattoos (there was a girl I was dating and she had a tattoo on her ankle which she had put up as her display pic on whatsapp. Later on she edited that display picture cropping the ankle and tattoo. No surprises why.) :sneaky:
 

DeanW

Newbie
  1. Lazy
  2. Sassy
  3. Stubborn
  4. Controlling
  5. Easily angered
  6. Arrogant/Cocky
  7. Has a dirty home
  8. Thuggish/gangsta behavior
  9. Out of shape/Lacks exercise
  10. Holds grudges/Hard to forgive the mistakes of others
Both lists seem correct, but I think your quoted example is more accurate because it goes to the core of the person. I would add several points which are for all people both women and men; 1) the inability to complete what they say they will. 2) the inability to build and maintain trust. 3) The inability to receive the truth through a logical means and then internalize the truth and act it out. 4) Lives and acts as a child into adult age. The person failed to adopt responsibility and become an adult.

I have not seen a book or article which articulates what trust is and how it is built and kept.
 
1. Russian women (I've dated one and had one as a friend and they were both the most materialistic women I've ever known)
2. Blondes above a 4 (entitled brats who never say please and thank you. Nowadays they all have a high notch count)
3. Isnt feminine (just because she's dressed feminine doesn't mean she is feminine)
4. FEMINIST
5. Lazy (doesnt cook, doesnt clean/messy)
6. Has male "friends"
7. Likes to party and go out and always be doing something
8. Likes to gossip
9. Atheist
10. She wants to be FWB (99.9% chance she's screwing you AND at least one other man)
Special thing about "Russian" women: It would be like judging American women solely by the women living in NYC, DC, Chicago, LA and Boston. To a certain degree, these places have defined American "culture", but certainly women from Arkansas and Missouri will tend to be quite different than some gal who goes to NYU or UCLA.

My Russian friends tell me that the center of Russia is Moscow and Saint Petersburg and those are the places people go to "make it" (watch the film "Moscow doesn't believe in tears", a classic Russian film that's a great conversation starter with Russians.) In those cities, and the exoburbs, it's all about flashing wealth. Up until the end of the USSR, they didn't have access to western goods so they have this "kid in a candy store" thing going on even moreso than American women who are flooded with shit they're told they need to buy.

If they emigrate to the west, Russians in general, but particularly the women, will certainly be of a different character than some gal in a small town. By the same token, I know lots of conservative American women but since they tend to be married and never went clubbing, they're effectively invisible to American culture.
 

gework

Ostrich
Gold Member
Not in a specific order.

1) wants a career
2) rejects me framing myself as her senior, e.g. I am in charge, I pay for things, if she pushes back at being 'baby girled'
3) smoker
4) hairy legs/armpits, coloured hair, nose ring, odd piercings, tatoos <- any signs of being a lefty/feminist
5) behaves like a man or rat
6) emotionally manipulative
7) parties, drugs, alcohol, smoking
8) likes city life
9) strong attachment to social media
10) slut

BONUS: Is trying to find herself

My starting point is this:

Age: 18-24
Race: White
Religion: Christian
Children: Wants
Job: None, or doesn't want one

Other nice touches:

- vulnerable
- desires a man to protect her
- likes to curl up next to you, like you are her everything
- quiet, serene, demure
- enjoys beautiful feminine things like: flowers, blossom, stars, walks in nature
- like simple ladylike hobbies, like playing the piano, tending her herb garden, stocking the winter food store

That is hard enough to find in The West. Don't be too fussy beyond that. Fixer-uppers are all you're likely to find.
 
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Matianus

Sparrow
Special thing about "Russian" women: It would be like judging American women solely by the women living in NYC, DC, Chicago, LA and Boston. To a certain degree, these places have defined American "culture", but certainly women from Arkansas and Missouri will tend to be quite different than some gal who goes to NYU or UCLA.

My Russian friends tell me that the center of Russia is Moscow and Saint Petersburg and those are the places people go to "make it" (watch the film "Moscow doesn't believe in tears", a classic Russian film that's a great conversation starter with Russians.) In those cities, and the exoburbs, it's all about flashing wealth. Up until the end of the USSR, they didn't have access to western goods so they have this "kid in a candy store" thing going on even moreso than American women who are flooded with shit they're told they need to buy.

If they emigrate to the west, Russians in general, but particularly the women, will certainly be of a different character than some gal in a small town. By the same token, I know lots of conservative American women but since they tend to be married and never went clubbing, they're effectively invisible to American culture.
This is a good point. In addition to the big two cities (Moscow and Saint Petersburg), it also includes large regional capitals such as Novosibirsk, Kazan, Yekaterinburg, etc. Some girls from villages move to those regional capitals to "make it." Not all make it to Moscow.

Traditional Russian women want to be with traditional Russian men. This is even true in the big cities. They highly value their culture, language, and religion. The chances of a truly traditional Russian woman (not a woman who is faking it) getting together with a Western guy is slim-to-none. Besides, most traditional Russian women are married by the time they are 19/20 years old.

I agree that most of our views of Russian women are negative for a specific reason. We are meeting and interacting Russian women who are in rebellion -- whether we meet them in Russia or especially outside of Russia.
 
4) hairy legs/armpits, coloured hair, nose ring, odd piercings, tatoos <- any signs of being a lefty/feminist
It's interesting how things and times change in that if you look at photos from the 1960's, you'll see most women had hairy legs and bikini area. Nylons made it possible for women to not have to shave their legs so many didn't.

I dated a woman who was very feminine and had light blonde hair and told her to just stop shaving her legs. She did and nobody noticed. Perhaps a few women raised eyebrows about it but it was something you'd have to look at to spot since the blonde hair didn't stand out. She was thankful to me for that (broke up with her for a different reason 2 years later.)
 
A woman who expresses a level of attachment towards you that is unwarranted at the stage of your relationship.
Ie: you met a week ago, have gone for coffee once; but she professes she already loves you.

This goes double if the woman isn't a citizen of the country which you are dating her (probably looking for a quickly annulled marriage for citizenship)
 

Daoism808

Newbie
A woman who expresses a level of attachment towards you that is unwarranted at the stage of your relationship.
Ie: you met a week ago, have gone for coffee once; but she professes she already loves you.

This goes double if the woman isn't a citizen of the country which you are dating her (probably looking for a quickly annulled marriage for citizenship)
Been there bro. Not worth it
 
Several major red-flags for me include:

- Divorced Parents
- Excessive make-up and/or piercings
- Binges on Netflix TV shows.
- Proudly refers to their dog as their "fur-baby" (I actually find this really creepy for some reason)
- Idolizes Kim Kardashian or some other trashy celebrity.
- Makes Tik-Tok videos.
 
This is a good point. In addition to the big two cities (Moscow and Saint Petersburg), it also includes large regional capitals such as Novosibirsk, Kazan, Yekaterinburg, etc. Some girls from villages move to those regional capitals to "make it." Not all make it to Moscow.

Traditional Russian women want to be with traditional Russian men. This is even true in the big cities. They highly value their culture, language, and religion. The chances of a truly traditional Russian woman (not a woman who is faking it) getting together with a Western guy is slim-to-none. Besides, most traditional Russian women are married by the time they are 19/20 years old.

I agree that most of our views of Russian women are negative for a specific reason. We are meeting and interacting Russian women who are in rebellion -- whether we meet them in Russia or especially outside of Russia.
Something to consider that's different about "western women" (particularly in the Anglosphere) versus traditional women elsewhere, is that actions that appear rebellious may actually be a form of traditionalism.

Hear me out.

We often remark that many American women don't value traditional relationships. They wait for men to provide them via a dopamine rush dating process that makes a woman a girlfriend rather than a potential marital prospect (heck, I found when I started dating that the surest way to get dumped by an American woman was to talk about marriage on the first few dates!) American women usually are proactive about relationships only when chasing chads rather than seeking marriage. I talked with some women friends (wives of friends) about this and they said that it was "popular" for women to say they didn't want to get married but only if the "right" man made it worth her while, play hard to get, etc. They also valued "serendipity" and that's why day gaming is a hit with western women in particular. Check out this scene in "500 Days of Summer"


That's what many western folks think of today as a "traditional" courtship.

In traditional societies, a woman isn't going to wait until she hits the wall to look to start a family. She won't wait for a man to magically day game her. Back when I met my wife (in the 1990's), this was especially the case. It was remarkable that traditional women were actually more mature and less "flakey". They had an idea of what they wanted and they discussed what they had to offer and that was that. Much less games.

So where I'm going is that although a woman expressing an interest in a foreigner who can meet her family expectations is a form of pro-active traditionalism.

I'll give you an idea of how things used to be: My grandmother had a sister who was being courted by a guy and she changed her mind and broke off the engagement. My grandmother said: "I'll take THAT action!" and yanked him. That was my grandfather (who apparently died quite some time before I was born.)

Naturally, these women who are actively looking to have a traditional family (husband, kids, go to church, build a happy life together) will generally be taken quickly.
 
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