TravelerKai’s Martial Arts Datasheet

Richard Turpin

Kingfisher
I was gobsmacked to see this youtube video on Voxday recently.

https://voxday.blogspot.com/2019/01/darkstream-magic-cuddle-puddlers.html#comment-form

Here’s the vid. Honestly, just watch it, if you haven’t already seen it;


If you can’t be bothered to watch, it basically shows a Japanese fighter Sakuraba dominating and defeating a whole line of Gracies (at separate events!). How? To summarise, he stays on his feet and soccer kicks his scuttlebutting opponents without mercy before choosing the right time to go to the ground and finish the fight on his own terms.

A few things to talk about here;

Firstly, I know damn well who Sakuraba is and knew all about his victories over the Gracies during this period. At least I knew on a historical, intellectual level. But this is the first time I have actually seen it.

This in no way invalidates BJJ as a useful MA! Let’s just get this straight. I’m posting this ‘cos it’s fascinating and pertinent to the streetfighting discussions on here (being on the ground and getting stomped). To get this out the way, I respect all Martial Arts, though there is a scale of practicality (of which BJJ sits at the top with a few others in my view). I also have a hunch that real streetfights are more about the ‘Artist than the Art’. Also, for survival purposes, I’m inclined nowadays to put ‘running away fast’ at the top of the pile!

There’s nothing new to unpack from this for most people on here; all MA’s have their weakness. That’s why MMA is ‘mixed’. A pure BJJ’er like the early ‘Pride’ days couldn’t win nowadays on the strength of one discipline.

I haven’t done much BJJ myself (only Judo), but cross-trained with a lot of BJJ’ers. They always impressed me (and always tapped me!) but I have to admit, I am sliding over more and more towards the ‘stay off the ground’ camp when it comes to streetfighting advice. Someone in one of the comments mentioned UK football hooligans back in the days being ‘boot-boys’ who would kick the shit out of anyone who ended up on the ground. Sakuraba would have made a great soccer hooligan!

There’s a lot of hate for the Gracies on those Youtube comments. I’m not certain, but it seems that the only Gracie he didn’t beat was Rickson (who had already retired).
 

H1N1

Ostrich
Gold Member
Sport fighting is not as helpful as is usually put forward when it comes to 'the street'.

Most people don't live in violent or dangerous environments, and most people who do don't come into contact very often, if at all, with violent predators.

If you do, in the course of your life, find yourself coming into contact frequently with dangerous people, a whole different set of skills apply. The toughness and conditioning that sport fighting gives you is more useful than the techniques in my experience.

Unless you are talking about squaring up outside a bar, all Marquess of Queensbury, the chances of finding yourself in a fair fight are very slim. Weapons are also almost completely useless in defensive street situations, because you wont deploy them in time, and most likely you wont even remember you have one on you when you are ambushed. You are not in a warzone, most likely, expecting these kinds of events, and you cannot live in code red, which is where you need to be to be consciously using a weapon having been put on the back foot. Soldiers, with their weapons drawn and expecting trouble, usually still get killed in ambushes. Your chances of drawing your weapon and using it effectively if you are relatively untrained are basically zero, and if you are highly trained, not much higher (if you are put on the defensive).

All of the key things you can do to protect yourself are largely focused on environmental awareness. Combat sports are great for building a bit of toughness and keeping your conditioning high, and demystifying violence a little. But they do very little to help you in real world situations. I boxed to a high level, and have a reasonable grounding in BJJ - both great sports I love. Professionally, I spend a lot of time in violent, dangerous places, and come into contact with a lot of violent dangerous people, both good ones and bad ones. I have had quite a few violent situations in the last 6 months alone, and I have not used boxing or BJJ once. 'Real' or 'Street' confrontations require you to cross a nastiness and aggression threshold that combat sports just don't really train you for. It is an unpalatable reality, but boxing (and certainly BJJ) did not prepare me sufficiently for the situations I now deal with semi regularly. They also do nothing to help you recognise the signs that trouble is coming, or to help you avoid them before it's necessary to go hands on - though even that is not always an option, regardless of whether you do everything right before hand.
 

ChicagoFire

Kingfisher
Just did Muay Thai for the first time a couple hours ago. I'll be doing more sessions in conjunction with Systema and FMA. Things have popped up in my life but MT is cool, it's something I want to add to my repertoire.

TK said:
"8) Hard to find traditional Muay Thai in the West. Lots just teach the boxing and basics. Few do the traditional conditioning and spiritual parts. Not always a bad thing, just means you miss certain parts."

Probably was the case. The instructor shouted some presumably Thai words before doing drills and before starting class. The session was like a boxing class almost. We would do strikes, footwork, and conditioning. Don't get me wrong, it was fun and I got some mileage out of it.

TK said:
"You may have to find separate boxing instructor to supplement that aspect of your game."

Totally agree. Some of the people I saw couldn't punch for shit.

I study this stuff to get ready post-Trump. Just like my signature suggests, time to prepare before times really get bad.



_____

Yeah Richard, I'm pretty much on the same boat. BJJ is a beautiful sport, I've done it and it isn't easy. The people that earn their stripes are admirable. With that being said you don't want to be on the ground in a street fight. I have an instructor who told me when you're on the ground you will have to watch your opponent's hands as he can grab a knife or a gun. The other obvious con is there may be other attackers around to curb stomp you.

I remember one of my instructors telling the class of a youtube video where a guy was getting beat while the attacker was mounting him...in hindsight BJJ will not save you in that situation. Best solution would be to verbally deescalate or run away or if it came down to it not go on the ground.
 

ChicagoFire

Kingfisher
I started martial arts when I was a kid and didn't care about it and now that I'm older I appreciate it a lot more. So far I have studied boxing, systema, FMA, BJJ, among a couple others so far. Just talking to a world champion teacher a couple days ago most probably already know this but don't be a jerkoff in your classes (not that I speak from experience). If you come in headhunting after getting off your deadend job you'll get kicked out even if you sign a contract.

It's more fun than lifting weights although that doesn't mean don't lift weights. Girls seem to be impressed that I like doing martial arts too. Repped you again TK.
 

Parzival

Ostrich
I'm with Kickboxing since October 2018 and now my trainer asked me if I want to join a beginner tournament. It will be at the 20th of April.
I have no worries about my boxing, with the kicks I stick to low kicks because I can't get the legs high enough. Started to add some runs as well to build up more stamina. Will be so far the first and only official fight to participate.

My main things to improve:
- Stamina
- Faster and stronger low kicks
- Faster reaction to kicks from the opponent / blocks and counter kicks

When some guys at the sparring are good with their legs or have a longer reach then I have to rush in. Need to lose about 2 kg to get into the below 75 kg ( 165 pound ? ) group, my high is 175 cm or 5,9. Since I lift weights since over a decade and had more heavy times, most of it fat I'm fine with this weight. Notice all others that have a similar weight to mine in boxing or kickboxing tend to be taller and less muscular.

My strengths are:
- Strong build body
- Good upper body reaction
- Good to rush in and strike with the fists
- Sense of distance
- Guard to fists

Some advice from you guys? Beside don't do it old man?
 

Rocha

Ostrich
Gold Member
Parzival said:
I'm with Kickboxing since October 2018 and now my trainer asked me if I want to join a beginner tournament. It will be at the 20th of April.
I have no worries about my boxing, with the kicks I stick to low kicks because I can't get the legs high enough. Started to add some runs as well to build up more stamina. Will be so far the first and only official fight to participate.

My main things to improve:
- Stamina
- Faster and stronger low kicks
- Faster reaction to kicks from the opponent / blocks and counter kicks

When some guys at the sparring are good with their legs or have a longer reach then I have to rush in. Need to lose about 2 kg to get into the below 75 kg ( 165 pound ? ) group, my high is 175 cm or 5,9. Since I lift weights since over a decade and had more heavy times, most of it fat I'm fine with this weight. Notice all others that have a similar weight to mine in boxing or kickboxing tend to be taller and less muscular.

My strengths are:
- Strong build body
- Good upper body reaction
- Good to rush in and strike with the fists
- Sense of distance
- Guard to fists

Some advice from you guys? Beside don't do it old man?

I say go for it. I have been doing it for some years now, but never competed. We are total opposites, only now in my mid 30s I am getting some respectable muscle mass, with much broader shoulders and bigger arms then a few years ago (I have been abusing kettlebell trainings, Aleksander Karelin style). Unusually for a guy of my height (1.72) my legs have a long reach and I can employ a wide range of kicks, I am not so confident in my boxing and also I don't like to get punched in my pretty face :unsure:
So I tend to keep my partners at bay most of the time, and my sparring normally is not so intense in terms of boxing exchanges, except here and there when we train just boxing...but because of that my boxing is not progressing as it should by now...I hope this year to finally get the balls to make the same step as you are doing.
 

Waqqle

Kingfisher
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ChicagoFire

Kingfisher
^^
LMAO!

I say go and compete Parzival. When you're 65 and looking back at your memories you'll think fondly of competing in a fight. That's what it's all about at the end of the day and not accumulating your "stairway to heaven."
 

Iconoclast007

Woodpecker
I have been training BJJ for a few months now and really like the knowlege, fitness and the comraderie it brings.

I would like to learn a striking system and there is a Krav Maga 4 day camp coming to my area this summer. Ive heard krav is something that is meant to learned fairly quick. That said. Will I gain enough from the camp to make it worth it as there is no krav training I can do regularly near my home.
 
Iconoclast007 said:
I have been training BJJ for a few months now and really like the knowlege, fitness and the comraderie it brings.

I would like to learn a striking system and there is a Krav Maga 4 day camp coming to my area this summer. Ive heard krav is something that is meant to learned fairly quick. That said. Will I gain enough from the camp to make it worth it as there is no krav training I can do regularly near my home.

You will gain from any training you commit yourself to be it small or large. You'll gain far more at an immersion camp than you would if the same number of hours of mat time were spread across a few weeks or months though.
 

Parzival

Ostrich
I got a list of potential competitors from the tournament:

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I have my focus on it, I do my regular runs and train regular. I have to improve my kicks.
When we do controlled sparing, where I can't move as free because the coach limit what we can do, I notice my distance with the kicks is not so good. Also the reaction is not where it should be. Sometimes I just reach with the toes and now power behind when I reach.
Also with boxing itself I often stop the combos when I notice the partner is lost in it. There I have to push myself to finish the combos even when just do it light. Started some reaction training with the kicks, I will keep this up. And high kicks are still not possible due lack of flexibility. So I hope to destroy them with low kicks.


Two men enter, one man leaves...
I will see them driven before me!

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heavy

Hummingbird
Gold Member
Almost 2.5 years into BJJ now. Loving it more than ever. I'm in a sweet spot right now where I can look up some concepts or techniques before going into the gym and be able to use them right away. I was a medium-speed learner...not the fastest, not the slowest.

It's awesome. It's like having cheat codes where I can look it up a move, submission, or technique, go try it on a white or lower blue belt, and it just works (sometimes with some input from a higher belt).

We have a really good white belt...athletic young 20s guy who's winning tournaments. He's a tough Canadian hockey player. I went for a baseball bat choke the other day on him. He had to defend it even though I knew I didn't have it set for the sub, so I transitioned to an armbar and tapped him. First time I've ever done that. Then yesterday I got the baseball bat choke on a fellow blue belt.

Things are starting to come together.

I also bought some MT shin guards the other day and have some gloves at home, so I plan on hitting the MT - MMA side of our gym a bit in the near future. I have a couple BJJ friends who go in for friendly sparring I trust. Pretty excited to learn more cheat codes and string some more superpowers.

I'm posting this (1) for any guys thinking about starting, and (2) as a thank you for the posts and threads I read for years on here before starting...not entirely sure I would have started BJJ without you guys (and Rogan of course).

Mid-30s and never felt more alive and in-tune with life than when I'm on the mat.
 

ChicagoFire

Kingfisher
^^
Fuck yeah do Muay Thai, super easy to learn.

I remember posting about doing 1000 MA classes and that isn't going to happen since I work so much now. If America does fall hopefully I'll be out of the country by then.
 

Parzival

Ostrich
Yesterday I had my first official kickboxing fight. I lost it. Edit: I'm the one in black!

Was all in all an amazing experience, at the end of the preparation training I was so worn out, nothing worked for my any more. Then I had about 10 days no training to full recover and feel incredible fit. Also learn a lot what I have to improve from the fight.

This was a smaller tournament so not in every class had be enough fighters, this lead to some mess up for me as well. I was waiting my class but then suddenly I hear my name, so I go up and they tell me that I have to fight.
My training was with all kicks, low, middle, high. The class where they put me had no low kicks. This sucked because because my kicking is bad. I worked hard on my low kicks and this was my game plan.
They call me and I see my opponent, was a big guy. I'm 77 kg ( 169 lbs) and this guy was about 120 kg ( 269 lbs). They put me in this strange beginner group up to heigh, not by weight. Because they hadn't enough people. So I see this big guy and have just a split decision if I fight or maybe don't have a fight at all this day. I say to may coach, I'm standing there, I fight. Screw that. I had no idea how skilled the other one was, just know he was a way more massive. Bring it on!

When the fight started I moved flexible with my strategy, be smooth, flexible, push kicks, punches, slide in and out. Then the guy simple push me, wasn't a hit, was really a push me away and I fall. My mind went total up, focus without see and notice anything from outside. Thinking: You don't push me around, you got the wrong one big fella. So I start to stand more grounded, more stable and go in. I fight him hard and gave him a hell of a fight. In this situation I forget to move to the side, forget to move in and out and since push kicks and side kicks are not for me, I forget them too. Anyway my pressure pay of and I cripple him. This was mostly by his own mistake. Still at the end he win, I lose. Was close and I consider it unfair consider the weight difference and how I did fight. He won by points, I won on the street. lol
One of his muscles get ruptured. He will remember this for a long time. The expression on his face also showed some shock over the fight. Seems like he one of those fighters that did get away by there pure mass in the training. For sure I'm the wrong guy to push around, even when you are bigger and stronger, I fight back!

Anyway after the fight I was only happy to gave him hell and not consider the point system at all. The day after my mind was more clear about all the errors. Score with push kicks, doge, side movements to change the angle and attack again. Only a few things that I can do I did apply. The state of my mind was strange, no up and down of emotion, only a strange focus and all thinking ability was gone. Therefore the things I could have done I didn't. Still proud to do such a thing with 35 years old, stand my ground against a way bigger one, take lessons that fighting bigger ones direct isn't smart and that for the future my mind keeps in an active focus to apply my game plan.

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Dr Mantis Toboggan

Kingfisher
Gold Member
Parzival said:
Yesterday I had my first official kickboxing fight. I lost it. Edit: I'm the one in black!

Was all in all an amazing experience, at the end of the preparation training I was so worn out, nothing worked for my any more. Then I had about 10 days no training to full recover and feel incredible fit. Also learn a lot what I have to improve from the fight.

This was a smaller tournament so not in every class had be enough fighters, this lead to some mess up for me as well. I was waiting my class but then suddenly I hear my name, so I go up and they tell me that I have to fight.
My training was with all kicks, low, middle, high. The class where they put me had no low kicks. This sucked because because my kicking is bad. I worked hard on my low kicks and this was my game plan.
They call me and I see my opponent, was a big guy. I'm 77 kg ( 169 lbs) and this guy was about 120 kg ( 269 lbs). They put me in this strange beginner group up to heigh, not by weight. Because they hadn't enough people. So I see this big guy and have just a split decision if I fight or maybe don't have a fight at all this day. I say to may coach, I'm standing there, I fight. Screw that. I had no idea how skilled the other one was, just know he was a way more massive. Bring it on!

When the fight started I moved flexible with my strategy, be smooth, flexible, push kicks, punches, slide in and out. Then the guy simple push me, wasn't a hit, was really a push me away and I fall. My mind went total up, focus without see and notice anything from outside. Thinking: You don't push me around, you got the wrong one big fella. So I start to stand more grounded, more stable and go in. I fight him hard and gave him a hell of a fight. In this situation I forget to move to the side, forget to move in and out and since push kicks and side kicks are not for me, I forget them too. Anyway my pressure pay of and I cripple him. This was mostly by his own mistake. Still at the end he win, I lose. Was close and I consider it unfair consider the weight difference and how I did fight. He won by points, I won on the street. lol
One of his muscles get ruptured. He will remember this for a long time. The expression on his face also showed some shock over the fight. Seems like he one of those fighters that did get away by there pure mass in the training. For sure I'm the wrong guy to push around, even when you are bigger and stronger, I fight back!

Anyway after the fight I was only happy to gave him hell and not consider the point system at all. The day after my mind was more clear about all the errors. Score with push kicks, doge, side movements to change the angle and attack again. Only a few things that I can do I did apply. The state of my mind was strange, no up and down of emotion, only a strange focus and all thinking ability was gone. Therefore the things I could have done I didn't. Still proud to do such a thing with 35 years old, stand my ground against a way bigger one, take lessons that fighting bigger ones direct isn't smart and that for the future my mind keeps in an active focus to apply my game plan.

Awesome. Props, man. Doesn't matter if you lost even if the guy had been your size, you did something that 99% of guys don't have the balls to do.

I'm about 9 months into BJJ and kickboxing, training BJJ 3-4x and kickboxing 1-2x most weeks, feel like I'm getting a lot better at BJJ but it's sometimes hard to tell as it's a pretty small gym (maybe 15-20 regular students, typically 4-6 in class on any given night) and other than one guy who started at the same time I did and who is usually a fairly even match when we roll there actually isn't anyone who regularly comes in who doesn't have at least a year or so of experience on me. Want to do a competition and there are a few in my area coming up, will probably try to do one in the next few months.

On the kickboxing side, been sparring for about a month now--it's a hell of a lot of fun and still learning to get over the instinctive fear of getting hit and focusing on technique (both offensive and defensive). There's also no better release from a day of staring at a fucking computer screen and dealing with a globohomo corporate job than beating the fuck out of a heavy bag, especially if you leave work early to go do it.
 
Oberrheiner said:
Youtube suggested me this :

I did some MT but never learned to knee kick like that ..
Definitely seems to work for her though.

Knees and elbows are woefully underutilized, even in MT.

People thing of them as a clinch move, but a straight knee properly executed should have a greater range than your opponents right cross.

It's crazy that western striking basically devolved into using the most fragile bodypart (hands) and ignoring the bludgeoning weapon that is a knee or elbow.
 

Parzival

Ostrich
Took part in another tournament. This time I had fights in my weight class, 2 fights. Lost both, with the other tournament I now have 3 official fights and lost all 3 of them. Always close but lost. Have to figure out what to do with this. Amazing experience overall and show me what I'm good at and what I'm missing. Need more stamina, more moving and more drive to attack. The biggest struggle is the mind. Have no intention to hurt at all and there was no drive for aggressive win. Like a trigger that I could not switch. Taken all the hits and kicks, counter and so on, also attack. In a way I feel limited by the rules since in a street fight the mind is set up for survive, here its a game.
To adjust my training I will adapt the things that I had missing, more moving, keep on the hits and kicks. The fight is only over when the referee stops or time is out. Also attack more driven forward. In a way I'm also to stiff, feels like no power behind everything.

Will I to more tournaments? Hard question since the last one was so hard, not by the fights. Drive about 1,5 hours to weight in the morning and then wait 10 hours. This all for the possibility of one or two fights? And this was one of the closer tournaments. I hear stories where people arrive the day before, sleep in a hotel and then there is no one to fight. Also be honest with 35 it sucks to dedicate all my time to the training. I enjoy 3x the gym and 3x the kickboxing but for the next level I need to do a lot more endurance training. And in all those years I get a blue eye, normal I take care of my guard. Working in sales and visit customers haha
Anyway, I will improve my training till I feel I made it to the next level, then maybe I will have some more fights. For my pride some win would be nice. For my ability of fighting and the learnings the defeat is maybe even better, make me consider what made me lose. A slight win can lead to the believe, well I did win and it was fine, nothing to improve.

To win in a tournament or win the fights by rules would be great for the pride and show some skills. What made me more into the material way is the mindset behind, the warrior spirit and that why I also try to become stronger. When I had encounters with aggressive people I was ready to finish them, this mindset wasn't there in the tournament. It was light contact, so no full contact and I'm well aware that in a full contact fight I still miss some skills. So against some random people yeah I will have a chance, also against people that are skilled but lack the mindset. The way of martial arts lead me also to a way that I do not have to fight or had any negative encounters with people in the last decade. The fight you don't have to fight is the best one, but I try to train to be able to stand my ground and defend me for the worst case. There is always you can do more but thats life. I have other priorities too, so be a decent fighter and not top elite is ok. Seek for self improvement for the life I have.
 
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