Trouble in Turkey

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iknowexactly

Crow
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cardguy said:
I heard once that Turkey is officially a secular county with a population which is mainly conservative muslim.

Whereas Iran is officially a conservative Islam country in which the population (particularly the young) are mainly secular/liberal muslims. Don't forget as well that Iran has more young people than just about any other country.

This makes for a quite interesting self-correction mechanism for strict traditional societies.

Conservative countries of whichever philosophy ( Iran, Israel ( at least the orthodox)) have more children. However, when the children are growing up, it seems they want countries to liberalize to improve economics. I don't know how popular the Ayatollahs are with Iranian teenagers...?
 

cardguy

 
Banned
sportbilly said:
looking forward to travelling to Istanbul on business next week :( !

You should!

Istanbul airport has the best business lounge in the world. My brother was there a month ago.

 

Sonsowey

Hummingbird
Gold Member
I have never been to Turkey, but in the Western/Internationalist press the impression I always got was:

"Turkey's mildly islamist government has a strong democratic mandate in Turkey, with secular opposition mainly focused in Ankara and Istanbul."

So it will be interesting to see if unrest spreads beyond the two main cities to other areas.
 

Sonsowey

Hummingbird
Gold Member
iknowexactly said:
However, when the children are growing up, it seems they want countries to liberalize to improve economics. I don't know how popular the Ayatollahs are with Iranian teenagers...?

I think this is a very American attitude, which is not correct.

Americans assume that everyone all over the world values freedom and democracy as we understand them, and that if they don't have freedom and democracy, that they want to achieve it and are being held back by someone.

In Iran, I don't think this is true. Younger generations could possibly be more islamist than older generations. Islamic governments all throughout the middle east are becoming more and more popular.

Sadam was secular. Qadafi was secular. Bashar Al-Asad is secular. Mubarak was Secular.

Yet these governments are falling, and in their place are rising more islamic governments.

It's often noted throughout the Arab world that many of the older generation are actually more secular, liberal and western. Those who lived during the pan-arabism movement and believed in Arab Nationalism and Arab Socialism.

But those forces are dying out, islamic government is coming to be more and more popular, not in spite of the young, but in many cases because of it.
 

Akula

Ostrich
Gold Member
Sonsowey said:
I have never been to Turkey, but in the Western/Internationalist press the impression I always got was:

"Turkey's mildly islamist government has a strong democratic mandate in Turkey, with secular opposition mainly focused in Ankara and Istanbul."

So it will be interesting to see if unrest spreads beyond the two main cities to other areas.

It's spread BIGTIME apparently. Yesterday there there were more than 1 million protestors in Istanbul alone. Ankara is heating up, and across the country the anti-Ergogan crowd is out - count is up to 67 cities where protests are in process still. That's over 90% of the country. 2000 arrests but no deaths (so far).

I was in Gorky Park today and right at the entrance there was even a little group of 40-50 Turks here protesting as well!!

Apparently Erdogan could give a sh*t and is acting very hawkish against the opposition, called Ataturk a "drunk", said Twitter was "evil"))

So I think we might not be seeing such a 'mildly Islamist' government soon enough, but who knows.

some of what the international press are reporting...of course in the US this takes backstage to tornados in Oklahoma :huh:

http://www.foxnews.com/world/slides...vernment-protests-escalate-in-turkey/#slide=2

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/06/02/world/europe/turkey-protests/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
 

Bill

Kingfisher
Gold Member
I am staying in Ankara and it´s getting very loud now in the neighborhood. I won´t get probably sleep this night. People are on the street, no police at all. Tough times for Erdogan. Now things will get probably critical. Let´s see.
 

Samseau

Eagle
Orthodox
Gold Member
So when I thought that the Turkish government uses a mandatory draft to combat it's Islamic extremists, I was right, but it's not the Kurdish people who are the extremists. Turns out the extremists are right in the Western parts.

The Kurdish people are just one more Turkish problem on top of many others.
 

inostranec

Sparrow
Today they arrested a famous anchorman because he was giving free milk and water to protesters. He is questioned now in the department of "terrorism". Wow it's a shock even for me.
 

Way Cool Jr

Woodpecker
Erdogan should resign.
People that lived in Turkey or know the country well know that this place isn't a real democracy.
The limitations on various fundamental liberties and on the news system are real and serious.
My heart goes to the protesters and to all my Turkish friends, I hope that if they succeed the new PM will be wiser and a little more liberal.
#occupygezy
 

Big Nilla

Pelican
Notice how this Turkish protest movement happened right about the time Roosh took a hiatus from blogging and talked about leaving Romania for something new?! Coincidence, I think not! I got my eyes on you, Roosh. From DC, hmm, maybe working for the CIA to cause havoc in another Muslim country.
 

lefonque

Pigeon
InternationPlayboy said:
My girl (Who is Turkish) was telling me that there is a big controversy going on right now about people thinking the president is Jewish.

There is always this kind of conspiracy theory shit .
 

Atilla

 
Banned
ao85 said:
Hopefully this stops the temporary flow of Turkish sex tourists to Russia so I can enjoy the summer in Moscow.

The day you’ll stop seeing Turkish sex tourists in Russia is the day Russian women stop having sex with Turkish men for money.
 

Akula

Ostrich
Gold Member
ao85 said:
Hopefully this stops the temporary flow of Turkish sex tourists to Russia so I can enjoy the summer in Moscow.

ha ha I hear you, they do seem to be everywhere sometimes, but as another poster said good luck with that :)

I feel for Turkey, this is clearly much worse than what was going on in Russia last year, and I fear more arrests and political backlash will soon be seen. The amount of protestors and violence from the police was much worse from what I saw. If anything seems like a much larger percentage of Turks are scared. From my discussions with Turkish friends abroad in NYC and London and just the guys on the street in Istanbul last year (ok so it was just my tour guide last year + the guys in the Grand Bazaar) most of the more western international and business crowd are firmly anti-Erdogen, seems to be at least half the country now! The Turkish economy was on a heater with strong growth over the past few years, but seems to be stalling a bit now.

From a pure international finance side the flows are already being seen out of Turkey, bonds dropping off a bit (but not massively), think that will continue until things get resovled. Might even be time to pick some stuff up cheap, but Turkish equities had such a huge run up and bonds were so tight they offered little value. Russia will actually benefit a bit from int'l fund flows as the 'baskets' for sovereign risk overlap....

Edit: Turkish equities down -5% right at the open, so could be in for a rough ride today!!
 
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