TRT Is Like Botox For Men

cosine

Woodpecker
Plan A:
- Eat broccoli, spinach, brown rice
- Eat salmon, turkey, eggs
- Go running 2x/week, or ball sports with the boys, climb mountains, go surfing or swimming
- Lift 2x week, or do other strength-oriented things like landscaping and etc.
- Drink water

Plan B:
- Take testosterone shots
 

Na skrzydłach orlich

Pigeon
Catholic
Nowhere did i say that giving children or adolescent boys or teenagers hormone drugs, nor am I in favor of giving women drugs to turn them into tranny freaks. There's obviously a difference and the comparison is ludicrous. I'm not gonna dignify the comparison of men taking testosterone to women taking it.
But isn't this is the slippery slope of it? We may not be in favour of it, but that won't stop others who are in favour of it, extending its use over time to cases that horrify us.
 

DeWoken

Woodpecker
Orthodox Inquirer
What about the natural aging process is specifically good?

I know that my father who owns a business, does mostly manual labor and is 70 got on trt at 50ish. Made a huge positive impact on his ability to do his work, and continue to provide for his family and outlive his father (despite having 2 heart attacks).

What I have seen is guys mostly former military guys around 35 getting on it to correct for years of repeated physical and mental stress and the effects of high cortisol on your endocrine system.

This includes my former senior enlisted counterpart who is now a cop and at age 36 got on trt after the initial phase of training. He's better at his job, more fit, had a better relationship with his wife So tell me how does the natural again process benefit this person?
We are lucky to have you around with your valuable knowledge and experience. Having said that, you get me wondering if these guys who are burnt out by life experiences would be better served by doing some sort of monastic retreat for a while. If there is always a modern, worldly band-aid at hand to fix the wound are we not missing an opportunity for saving souls?

Living a monastic life on a vineyard or farm or whatever would surely boost T as a side-effect. Healing the spirit is needed.

Anybody truly into bodybuilding is not doing it for anything to do with an agenda. While I would never destroy my body for a plastic trophy the way they do, the discipline and dedication bodybuilders put into their sport is something you could not comprehend and it's not something they do for fame or money because even the most top tier guys don't attain that.

You're way way off base, it's actually an incredibly ignorant statement to put it lightly. I'm assuming when you say "bodybuilding" you're referring to the loser at the gym trying to show himself off and overcompensate for something, those are not bodybuilders.
Like with any obsession, like fixing up cars, or tweaking computers, there is goodness in it but we must endeavor to use our strength and skills to serve God, or it is a misuse. I fear many men who get deep into bodybuilding are just on a wild goose chase: intoxicated.
 

Cr33pin

Peacock
Other Christian
Gold Member
Every man 40-45? Does that not constitute a rejection of our natural ageing process?

Our natural testosterone is under attack on all types of fronts and dropping every year. That is the difference.... we are being chemically castrated of our natural healthy testosterone levels by unnatural means. So to combat that with reasonably dosed medical injections in my eyes is not a problem or sin. If you are taking it under the guise of big muscles and banging skanks that's a different story. But to try to keep your levels close to that of your grandfathers when he was your age for health and wellbeing levels is a far cry from vane ladies getting Botox in my opinion.
 

Max Roscoe

Ostrich
Orthodox Inquirer
That they're not men. Obviously.
But that's not an argument. Women have testosterone naturally in their bodies. How can you tell women that they cannot increase their testosterone but men can?

This line of argument basically says that there are not just two sexes created by God, Man and Woman, but instead we are just all humans with variable amounts of hormones in our body and we all exist on a spectrum where there are currently 72 levels of sexuality, and if you want to increase or lower yours, then, that's just like, your opinion, man.
 

Max Roscoe

Ostrich
Orthodox Inquirer
Nowhere did i say that giving children or adolescent boys or teenagers hormone drugs, nor am I in favor of giving women drugs to turn them into tranny freaks. There's obviously a difference and the comparison is ludicrous. I'm not gonna dignify the comparison of men taking testosterone to women taking it.
To paraphrase Aragorn from Lord of the Rings,
Tranny War is upon you whether you choose to wage it or not.

One cannot say hormone treatment therapy is only allowed for men aged 40-45. There is no moral argument for such a statement, much less questionable scientific reasoning, and more importantly, the legal and social standing in the US would never allow it. If anything, men have less rights than the general population. If men are allowed to do this then defacto kids and trannies do as well.
 

get2choppaaa

Hummingbird
Orthodox
To paraphrase Aragorn from Lord of the Rings,
Tranny War is upon you whether you choose to wage it or not.

One cannot say hormone treatment therapy is only allowed for men aged 40-45. There is no moral argument for such a statement, much less questionable scientific reasoning, and more importantly, the legal and social standing in the US would never allow it. If anything, men have less rights than the general population. If men are allowed to do this then defacto kids and trannies do as well.
Ok I cant controll what the government says is authorized or not. I don't support it but hey I don't support abortions either.

I can say that men with higher t are better for society than men with lower t.

I can say my life quality has improved because of it, and as have many of my friends who made the educated decision to do so.

I don't know why you're taking the issue of men's testosterone and conflating it to women and children. I suppose I would rather my son's take testosterone at age 15 than estrogen.
 

get2choppaaa

Hummingbird
Orthodox
Our natural testosterone is under attack on all types of fronts and dropping every year. That is the difference.... we are being chemically castrated of our natural healthy testosterone levels by unnatural means. So to combat that with reasonably dosed medical injections in my eyes is not a problem or sin. If you are taking it under the guise of big muscles and banging skanks that's a different story. But to try to keep your levels close to that of your grandfathers when he was your age for health and wellbeing levels is a far cry from vane ladies getting Botox in my opinion.
I said this on the other thread, but I'll say it here. Normal is not optimal. "Normal" people age 65 have weak bone density.

Men who are abnormal and lift weights and work out have more bone density. This prevents you from dying from lack of mobility due to a broken hip.

I would rather be abnormal than normal.

Plus ripping a 500 lb deadlift is awesome.
 

Max Roscoe

Ostrich
Orthodox Inquirer
I can say that men with higher t are better for society than men with lower t.

Probably true.
I don't know why you're taking the issue of men's testosterone and conflating it to women and children. I suppose I would rather my son's take testosterone at age 15 than estrogen.
Because I despise transexualism, and mankind altering hormone levels by choice will lead to an explosion in the prevalence, pervasiveness, and normalization of them. It could even lead to a world where artificially hormoned men are more feminine than the landwhale aggressive "natural" female beasts we have been complaining about for years.

If the tradeoff is men having slightly lower testosterone than our ancestors, that is the choice I want. I mean if we really want to go back to a high T society then the answer is to take the Uncle Ted pill or at least live in a society like the Amish or that M Night Sham. film The Village.
 

get2choppaaa

Hummingbird
Orthodox
Probably true.

Because I despise transexualism, and mankind altering hormone levels by choice will lead to an explosion in the prevalence, pervasiveness, and normalization of them. It could even lead to a world where artificially hormoned men are more feminine than the landwhale aggressive "natural" female beasts we have been complaining about for years.

If the tradeoff is men having slightly lower testosterone than our ancestors, that is the choice I want. I mean if we really want to go back to a high T society then the answer is to take the Uncle Ted pill or at least live in a society like the Amish or that M Night Sham. film The Village.
With all respect max:

Well that's not the trade off we live in. Trannies are just gonna tranny and men with your line of though are going to perpetuate self destructive low t for an illogical moral point that is tenuous at best.

Meanwhile, I'll keep my medically supervised regime, enjoy my hobbies, and try and keep the maturity to make sure the medicine is being used for productive use that helps me, my family, and leads me toward rectitude and not vanity.
 

FactusIRX

 
Banned
the Virgin “list of benefits” vs the Chad “I like it”
It reminds me of potheads like Rogan. They would claim they smoke weed for this and that medicinal reason, but you know they actually smoke it because it is a drug that gives them pleasure.

Testosterone, like all anabolic steroids, are a drug. You know this because if you discontinue taking testosterone, you will have experience severe withdrawal effects. Medicine, like aspirin, doesn't produce withdrawal effects. Testosterone also has negative health effects if you take it over a long period of time, including shrinking your testicles, reducing your sperm court, causing you to lose your hair, causing gynecomastia, causing your blood to thin, and increasing your cholesterol and worsening your heart health. That's not that much different than something like heroin.

The vast majority of men (and women) that take anabolic steroids do it for the increase in pleasure, increase in vitality in bed, and bigger muscles. They do not use it to treat a serious medical issue.

As a side effect, the isolation of hormones and its widespread acceptance to use them has led to the tranny crisis. That's an undeniable truth. The amount of women I see in my gym that use testosterone is out of control.
 

get2choppaaa

Hummingbird
Orthodox
It reminds me of potheads like Rogan. They would claim they smoke weed for this and that medicinal reason, but you know they actually smoke it because it is a drug that gives them pleasure.

Testosterone, like all anabolic steroids, are a drug. You know this because if you discontinue taking testosterone, you will have experience severe withdrawal effects. Medicine, like aspirin, doesn't produce withdrawal effects. Testosterone also has negative health effects if you take it over a long period of time, including shrinking your testicles, reducing your sperm court, causing you to lose your hair, causing gynecomastia, causing your blood to thin, and increasing your cholesterol and worsening your heart health. That's not that much different than something like heroin.

The vast majority of men (and women) that take anabolic steroids do it for the increase in pleasure, increase in vitality in bed, and bigger muscles. They do not use it to treat a serious medical issue.

As a side effect, the isolation of hormones and its widespread acceptance to use them has led to the tranny crisis. That's an undeniable truth. The amount of women I see in my gym that use testosterone is out of control.

think we need to differentiate between use and supervised control and abuse.

TRT/HRT is not blasting roids for the beach season or getting a sick pump or whatever.

Yes they make you feel good. Yes they are a chemical and a serious drug... People need to be mature about their use, but comparing it to heroin is a little hyperbolic.

Go inject a bottle of t into your shoulder and you'll have some endocrine effects, some not so good. Go put a baggie of heroin into your vein and you need a narcan shot or you're DRT.

No one was talking about trannies during the Moscow vs us Olympics where steroids were widely used by both sides...at least as far as on the home front and society. We've had testosterone around since the early 1900s... I think the gay marriage referendum had more to do with this.

Let's not blame good ole testosterone for liberal mind rot. ;)
 

Roosh

Cardinal
Orthodox
I don't think people should get on T unless they really need it, but I think evey man age 40 -45 should be on T.
Recommending a medical treatment for all men, whom you don't know, just because you're taking it, suggests to me a degree of deception in your thinking that should be examined more carefully on your own or with your priest. You're even suggesting the treatment without establishing need (if a man's T level is low) or dosage considerations. Your defensive and borderline emotional posts on this topic also suggest that your conscience may not agree with your decision on taking T, as if you're trying to convince yourself more of this treatment than us.
 

bucky

Hummingbird
Other Christian
Recommending a medical treatment for all men, whom you don't know, just because you're taking it, suggests to me a degree of deception in your thinking that should be examined more carefully on your own or with your priest. You're even suggesting the treatment without establishing need (if a man's T level is low) or dosage considerations. Your defensive and borderline emotional posts on this topic also suggest that your conscience may not agree with your decision on taking T, as if you're trying to convince yourself more of this treatment than us.
I found the idea that all men over a certain age should be on those drugs shocking. I'm over 50 now and fine without them by every indicator I can think of.
 

FrancisK

Pelican
Catholic
Gold Member
We are lucky to have you around with your valuable knowledge and experience. Having said that, you get me wondering if these guys who are burnt out by life experiences would be better served by doing some sort of monastic retreat for a while. If there is always a modern, worldly band-aid at hand to fix the wound are we not missing an opportunity for saving souls?

Living a monastic life on a vineyard or farm or whatever would surely boost T as a side-effect. Healing the spirit is needed.


Like with any obsession, like fixing up cars, or tweaking computers, there is goodness in it but we must endeavor to use our strength and skills to serve God, or it is a misuse. I fear many men who get deep into bodybuilding are just on a wild goose chase: intoxicated.


I agree, you shouldn't obsess over anything other than maybe god and family. While I believe their endeavor is silly and dangerous to say that actual bodybuilders are doing it as part of an agenda is just plain ignorance.
 

FrancisK

Pelican
Catholic
Gold Member
Recommending a medical treatment for all men, whom you don't know, just because you're taking it, suggests to me a degree of deception in your thinking that should be examined more carefully on your own or with your priest. You're even suggesting the treatment without establishing need (if a man's T level is low) or dosage considerations. Your defensive and borderline emotional posts on this topic also suggest that your conscience may not agree with your decision on taking T, as if you're trying to convince yourself more of this treatment than us.


Roosh there are a lot of well known guys on this forum who think that the oil in the barrel of a syringe is what is keeping them a man, that isn't what @get2choppaaa is saying he's just defending what he has researched extensively and believes to be true from his expierence vs people spouting anecdotal comments. I've had more than one guy on the forum tell me through PM while I was trying to help them that they use test just to keep from being a soy boy and got pretty upset or stopped responding when I told them it wasn't the oil that was doing that, no amount of testosterone is going to turn a weak soy boy kid into a strong man trust me I have tried to help more than one.
 

Roosh

Cardinal
Orthodox
Roosh there are a lot of well known guys on this forum who think that the oil in the barrel of a syringe is what is keeping them a man, that isn't what @get2choppaaa is saying he's just defending what he has researched extensively and believes to be true from his expierence vs people spouting anecdotal comments. I've had more than one guy on the forum tell me through PM while I was trying to help them that they use test just to keep from being a soy boy and got pretty upset or stopped responding when I told them it wasn't the oil that was doing that, no amount of testosterone is going to turn a weak soy boy kid into a strong man trust me I have tried to help more than one.
TRT is an individual decision. Men must evaluate it on their own. My article describes why TRT is a worldly solution for the achievement of secular benefits, far distanced from the faith. Ultimately your body, your choice. Unless any medical treatment increases your faith in God, however, it is unlikely to be of God.
 

get2choppaaa

Hummingbird
Orthodox
Recommending a medical treatment for all men, whom you don't know, just because you're taking it, suggests to me a degree of deception in your thinking that should be examined more carefully on your own or with your priest. You're even suggesting the treatment without establishing need (if a man's T level is low) or dosage considerations. Your defensive and borderline emotional posts on this topic also suggest that your conscience may not agree with your decision on taking T, as if you're trying to convince yourself more of this treatment than us.
TRT is an individual decision. Men must evaluate it on their own. My article describes why TRT is a worldly solution for the achievement of secular benefits, far distanced from the faith. Ultimately your body, your choice. Unless any medical treatment increases your faith in God, it is unlikely to be of God.
I don't see where I've been emotional. I'm not convincing myself here, I'm just presenting the other side of the coin.

I do genuinely appreciate the comment about discussing with my priest.

But my point across all the posts is that we should not disregard positive health benefits of something that many many men would benefit from and stated that there needed to be a medical need. When i said all folks in their 40s.... I'm assuming that the previous condition of medical necessity being true. If that wasn't enumerated then I'll clarify that.

I'm gonna bow out on this now as I've made the point.
 
Top