TRT Is Like Botox For Men

A very timely and interesting article. It's nice to see it has created a decent discussion on this topic.

I am seriously considering getting TRT. I live in the UK - the state healthcare (NHS) is a total garbage , no matter how much some pretentious Brits rave about at home and abroad. According to the endocrinologist and other "specialist" in the NHS, claim according to their test my T-levels "are within the normal range". Needless to say , "their normal range " would not be considered "normal" anywhere else now (let alone in the 1980s or earlier).
For the record : I pray daily, I try to lead a health lifestyle, get enough good quality sleep, eat a healthy and balanced diet. Don't drink or smoke. Try to reduce stress as much as possible. Get regular exercise that is suitable for my body.( Have some minor health conditions.)
Yet, I still display most of the classic symptoms of testosterone-deficiency.
Private TRT in the expensive, but you cannot really put a price on your health and your family's health.
I am nearly 39. My sole reason for TRT is that I desperately want to find a suitable wife and start a family. I am planning to start TRT for that reason. I know God accept this as a genuine reason.
I believe it is the same with ED medication: the man who uses it to satisfy his wife and thus save his marriage will have God's blessings. Ont the other hand, a man who uses such medication so that he could fornicate will not have God's blessing.
I beleive God knows my heart and my intetnsions -thus I would not feel guilty if I rely on TRT, as it is for a genuine reason that God approves.
 

messaggera

Kingfisher
Woman
All the same arguments can be made for women taking estrogen. Most intake is in the form of birth control, the pill (not advocating and do oppose).

Invasive birth control methods have negative biologically effects, and would even go further to say psychological effects. There are studies and testimonies to support this statement.


Then there are women who take estrogen and progesterone treatments for the discomfort of menopause or doctor [recommended] medical issues.

Both hormone treatments (birth control and menopause) have side effect warnings.

Some of the absurd reasons young sexually active women take the hormones can be found in the Buzz article ; and some women will take for superficial reasons out of convenience.
 

bucky

Ostrich
All the same arguments can be made for women taking estrogen. Most intake is in the form of birth control, the pill (not advocating and do oppose).

Invasive birth control methods have negative biologically effects, and would even go further to say psychological effects. There are studies and testimonies to support this statement.


Then there are women who take estrogen and progesterone treatments for the discomfort of menopause or doctor [recommended] medical issues.

Both hormone treatments (birth control and menopause) have side effect warnings.

Some of the absurd reasons young sexually active women take the hormones can be found in the Buzz article ; and some women will take for superficial reasons out of convenience.
Anectdotal evidence too. I spent years being angry at my ex-wife for her disloyal and generally psycho behavior, what we would have called "hypergamy" back in the old days of this forum. Looking back now, I see that most of this behavior started when she got on the pill, which she did so that we could fornicate before we were married without worrying about pregnancy. I was an agnostic at the time and at best a tradcon in my world view, which is essentially globohomo light. I provided no strong, Christian guidance in the relationship whatsoever, so looking back it's no surprise that things went very, very badly when we married. One of the many great things about finding my faith again is letting go of my anger and forgiving her, as well as placing at least half the blame for what happened on myself.

Verging back on topic, yes, there probably are a lot of parallels between TRT for men and estrogen treatments for women.
 
If you think work makes the body strong, you are neither strong nor have you worked.
My earlier comment was not charitable, and it demonstrated a lack of thought regarding different life circumstances.

Work in the service of God will make you strong. It has made me strong in both body and spirit, in ways that were inconceivable to me before. But we are not operating from the same definition of strong, which is why I will refrain from commenting further here, as it will only lead to discord.
 

GWYW2015

Woodpecker
Orthodox
If that were true, then what is the argument against females taking testosterone injections to turn into tranny men?

I suppose there is a shred of truth in in that our modern society is full of plastics, phytoestrogens, remnants of birth control pills in the water supply ( https://www.ehn.org/troubled-water-estrogen-and-its-doppelgangers-2641102160.html ) and therefore all men are under some sort of assault when it comes to their natural hormones, but the answer is to eat well, filter your water, and exercise, not to take injections of a hormone that has hundreds of tiny effects on your physical, mental and perhaps spiritual health.

Anyway, taking more testosterone opens you up to risks of its own, such as a shorter lifespan and liklihood of cancer (estrogen does the same for women). And if every man 40-45 should take testosterone shots, then maybe every boy 15-25 should take T-blockers or estrogen shots because they would be far less likely to fornicate, take risks, and get in accidents.

Who are we to manipulate our hormones to try to achieve a state of perpetual pleasure? And why stop at testosterone? Why not inject ourselves with endorphins that simulate sexual climax? Why not turn our physical bodies into cocoons like in the Bruce Willis movie Surrogates, and seek maximum entertainment and pleasure for the mind? Great article.
Maximizing testosterone is not going to achieve a state of perpetual pleasure. Anyone on TRT can vouch for that. It isn't about pleasure, it is about health and wellbeing.

Self control is the command regardless of testosterone level or sexual deprivation. It's just better to be married and have sex. 1 Corinthians 7.
A very timely and interesting article. It's nice to see it has created a decent discussion on this topic.

I am seriously considering getting TRT. I live in the UK - the state healthcare (NHS) is a total garbage , no matter how much some pretentious Brits rave about at home and abroad. According to the endocrinologist and other "specialist" in the NHS, claim according to their test my T-levels "are within the normal range". Needless to say , "their normal range " would not be considered "normal" anywhere else now (let alone in the 1980s or earlier).
For the record : I pray daily, I try to lead a health lifestyle, get enough good quality sleep, eat a healthy and balanced diet. Don't drink or smoke. Try to reduce stress as much as possible. Get regular exercise that is suitable for my body.( Have some minor health conditions.)
Yet, I still display most of the classic symptoms of testosterone-deficiency.
Private TRT in the expensive, but you cannot really put a price on your health and your family's health.
I am nearly 39. My sole reason for TRT is that I desperately want to find a suitable wife and start a family. I am planning to start TRT for that reason. I know God accept this as a genuine reason.
I believe it is the same with ED medication: the man who uses it to satisfy his wife and thus save his marriage will have God's blessings. Ont the other hand, a man who uses such medication so that he could fornicate will not have God's blessing.
I beleive God knows my heart and my intetnsions -thus I would not feel guilty if I rely on TRT, as it is for a genuine reason that God approves.
I like your post. Just know that TRT will more than likely drop your sperm count to zero by dropping your FSH (Follicle Stimulating Hormone) to zero as well. Yes, you can add HCG (Human Chorionic Gonadotropin) to help with intratesticular testosterone production but at 39, unlike somone in their 20s, there is a better than not chance you will become infertile.

You could just take fertility doses of HCG which will increase your testosterone significantly, but you'll have to take an aromotase inhibitor most likely.

You could also take the very inexpensive Clomid which will boost your T even more than HCG. When I was trying to give my wife a baby, (Clomid is a fertility med too), it got my testosterone level to 1000 ng/dl and I was in my 50s, so that works. Be warned here that it could cause extremely high levels of SHBG (Sex Hormone Binding Globulin) and make your free T levels at the bottom of the range.
 

Carolus

Pigeon
The arguments for TRT being presented here are the same as the arguments for antidepressants, Adderall, etc. This is exactly how the rot starts and how it started in the past. The people in this thread defending recreational TRT would comment negatively on USA women's antidepressant statistics. The 40 year old man on TRT to feel better and boost his mood is no different than a 40 year old woman taking antidepressants.

The medical establishment wants everyone taking something every day – be they statins, birth control, antidepressants, PREP. Don't be seduced.
 

GWYW2015

Woodpecker
Orthodox
The arguments for TRT being presented here are the same as the arguments for antidepressants, Adderall, etc. This is exactly how the rot starts and how it started in the past. The people in this thread defending recreational TRT would comment negatively on USA women's antidepressant statistics. The 40 year old man on TRT to feel better and boost his mood is no different than a 40 year old woman taking antidepressants.

The medical establishment wants everyone taking something every day – be they statins, birth control, antidepressants, PREP. Don't be seduced.
A man isn't prescribed TRT to feel better and boost his mood, that is not going to get him a prescription. He has to have documented low T. For instance, a level of 300 or lower tested between 0800 and 1000 for multiple times. It isn't prescribed for recreational use. If he is not sleeping enough, under extreme stress, he isn't likely to get it either, because those things can cause temporary low T.

If he qualifies he is doing it to BE healthier, not feel better. It is different than taking antidepressants because it is neuro protective, cardio protective, and improves bone mineral density. That is a good thing.
 

Carolus

Pigeon
A man isn't prescribed TRT to feel better and boost his mood, that is not going to get him a prescription. He has to have documented low T. For instance, a level of 300 or lower tested between 0800 and 1000 for multiple times. It isn't prescribed for recreational use. If he is not sleeping enough, under extreme stress, he isn't likely to get it either, because those things can cause temporary low T.

If he qualifies he is doing it to BE healthier, not feel better. It is different than taking antidepressants because it is neuro protective, cardio protective, and improves bone mineral density. That is a good thing.

You are being dishonest and you know it. Everything sentence in the first paragraph is false and you know it. You know there are doctors in every city and modestly sized town in America who will give out prescriptions for TRT, adderall, antidepressants, and sleeping pills to almost anyone who asks for them. If you don't know this is true, wake up.

I personally know men in their early 30s on TRT prescribed by a doctor who had healthy T levels and are taking it to boost their performance in the gym.

There is a difference between something being true in principle and something being true in fact. The principle does not matter if it is not practiced and the slippery slope is the undefeated champion.
 

get2choppaaa

Ostrich
Are we talking about "recreational trt" or recreational steroids use or abuse?

They are two different things, which is something I've been trying to point out, but seems to be missing from many's comments here.

You can get both from a doctor. Doesn't mean they are both the same thing.

Personally my view is if you want to use steroids under medical supervision legally i dont care. But it isn't TRT if you're blasting your use up 2 or 3 or 10 x the "natural" level. It's drug use.

To me it becomes drug abuse when you do the above and disregard intelligent health concerns, or are using it in a way that is not intended, or causes you harm, physically/psychologically/mentally/spiritually.

What you're describing below is a TRT mill clinic. There's a doctor, but they usually have their clients see a salesman in effect who reccomends the particular drug use and the Dr prescribes. He then gets a kick back.

Again it's one of those things that people should educate themselves on before doing. And usually involved lifelong commitment to the continued use. There are plenty of legitimate cases and also plenty of abusers out there.


.
You are being dishonest and you know it. Everything sentence in the first paragraph is false and you know it. You know there are doctors in every city and modestly sized town in America who will give out prescriptions for TRT, adderall, antidepressants, and sleeping pills to almost anyone who asks for them. If you don't know this is true, wake up.

I personally know men in their early 30s on TRT prescribed by a doctor who had healthy T levels and are taking it to boost their performance in the gym.

There is a difference between something being true in principle and something being true in fact. The principle does not matter if it is not practiced and the slippery slope is the undefeated champion.
 

GWYW2015

Woodpecker
Orthodox
You are being dishonest and you know it. Everything sentence in the first paragraph is false and you know it. You know there are doctors in every city and modestly sized town in America who will give out prescriptions for TRT, adderall, antidepressants, and sleeping pills to almost anyone who asks for them. If you don't know this is true, wake up.

I personally know men in their early 30s on TRT prescribed by a doctor who had healthy T levels and are taking it to boost their performance in the gym.

There is a difference between something being true in principle and something being true in fact. The principle does not matter if it is not practiced and the slippery slope is the undefeated champion.
Sure, there are quacks out there, there are exploiters, even in TRT but I don't think that is the norm.
I only have pity for those who have wrong motives for something like testosterone and the fools who unscrupulously give it to them.
My experience has been that more people complain about NOT being able to get it prescribed with low-normal levels.
No, I wasn't being dishonest.
It is not that easy to get testosterone.
I have yet to talk to a doctor who was eager to have his license stripped away.
 
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Starlight

Woodpecker
Woman
The whole debate really comes down to what level of medical intervention is appropriate (whether it’s TRT, chemo, anti-biotics, invasive surgery, etc) for us Christians. Where do we draw the line? At what point do we stop looking to God for our care and healing and to medicine for a *cure*? If we depend only on medicine does that cover up God’s healing miracle’s? These are questions that I ask myself and I’m sure others do too. I’ve personally witnessed God’s healing miracles in my own life.

We should remember that disease, pain, aging, and our eventual deaths are all symptoms of The Fall from Grace. The *only* medicine for that is Christ Our Savior.

That being said, Christianity isn’t a death cult. We shouldn’t just let ourselves die, or be unhealthy, or hasten our path to Heaven. We’re told “This is the day that the Lord has made, let us rejoice and be glad in it” (Psalm 118:24) and “Come, follow Me,” Jesus said, “and I will make you fishers of men” (Matthew 4:19). We should revere God’s beautiful creation that is the Earth and we are called to spread His gospel of salvation. God places burdens on all of us, of all different kinds, and yet we are still called to be among His faithful.

The main defenses for TRT that I’ve read in this thread so far are: “keep youthful vitality”; “be an efficient human”; “something about my grandfather’s T levels”; “supposed health benefits”. (Doctors literally tell menopausal women they should take HRT for the rest of their lives so they can “alleviate and negate the symptoms of aging.”).

How many people in the Bible suffered extensively and yet persevered? Have all of you forgotten our dear Apostle Paul??? With real physical limitations by any standard and actual persecution. And yet he still served our Lord with all his heart and look at what God has done through him! We should all try to be more like our dear Saint Paul. I don’t think any of us could imagine the actual suffering of our saints. It would certainly put our “first world” problems to shame, easily.
 

kevm3

Chicken
I'm surprised by how many Christian guys are all in on bodybuilding. Seems to me like an overreaction to the demasculinization agenda.
Satan is so unbelievably crafty that he can find all kinds of ways to pull us into sin. With bodybuilding, he's able to draw a lot of Christians into vanity, self-worship, homosexuality or inducing lust in others. There's nothing wrong with lifting weights to a reasonable level, but some get so drawn into seeking the 'perfect aesthetics' that they do things that would normally not be seen as heterosexual behavior such as watching greased up guys in underwear trot around at 'bodybuilding shows'. A lot of these folks are spending unbelievable amounts of time and money on something that has no real purpose other than making an attractive exterior for others to lust at. In fact, hardcore bodybuilding is NOT healthy, especially when you see how many of those bodybuilders die in their 40s and 50s or are handicapped.
 

Carolus

Pigeon
Sure, there are quacks out there, there are exploiters, even in TRT but I don't think that is the norm.
I only have pity for those who have wrong motives for something like testosterone and the fools who unscrupulously give it to them.
Go back and read what people who were advocating for antidepressants, adderall, etc. in the past had to say. Currently most prescriptions for antidepressants are unnecessary. Rewind the clock to before they became widespread and there'd be someone saying, 'sure there are quacks out there but..."
Go back and watch how the mainstream establishment recommending birth control only for 'sexually active' women became recommending birth control for all teenage girls the moment they are fertile. After all, there are 'health benefits' to the pill.
My experience has been that more people complain about NOT being able to get it prescribed with low-normal levels.
So you know of a bunch of people who want to get prescribed TRT who don't need it because they've been hearing it proselytized all over the mainstream. That sounds great.
No, I wasn't being dishonest.
It is not that easy to get testosterone.
I have yet to talk to a doctor who was eager to have his license stripped away.
Then you live under a rock. The number of doctors losing their licenses for frivolous prescriptions in the US is minuscule. Giving out harmful prescriptions is nearly all that a psychiatrist does. That is actually the purpose of the profession.

A healthy 35 year old man I know got a checkup and the doctor tried to get him on statins and blood pressure meds despite him being within normal ranges. My grandmother was on 12 medications, she got tried of taking all those pills every day and knocked it down to 1 (against the advice and gloom and doom predictions of her doctor). Her health immediately improved and she's still kicking 5 years later. I know dozens of elderly with similar stories. But quacks aren't the norm, sure. The entire profession is corrupt and is obviously corrupt.

Remember, it is always a slippery slope. And it starts with a reasonable and moderate argument (we just want equal rights...).

Are we talking about "recreational trt" or recreational steroids use or abuse?

They are two different things, which is something I've been trying to point out, but seems to be missing from many's comments here.
Are we talking about recreational adderall or adderall with a prescription from a totally legit doctor who also happens to give ritalin to normal and healthy 6 year boys in his spare time? Those are clearly two totally different things.

Taking TRT because you're getting old and want to feel young again is recreational.

You're missing the point. I do not believe anyone here, certainly not me, is arguing that there aren't fringe medical cases where TRT may be necessary. Just as there are fringe cases where other drugs or procedures are necessary. The problem is the guy I quoted above who seems to know lots of guys trying to get on TRT who don't need it. The problem is all the guys I know who are on TRT who don't need it. And the problem is well-meaning people like you who promote it. The medical industry and globohomo wants everyone dependent on daily drugs and you are doing their work for them.

Well-meaning people promoted antidepressants for extreme cases. That opened the door. Then more and more people hear good things about antidepressants and Hollywood actresses talk about how helpful they are. A few years later American women are taking them at alarming rates.

This same story has unfolded countless times as this country spirals into degeneracy. The slippery slope always wins.
 

Hannibal

Ostrich
Gold Member
My earlier comment was not charitable, and it demonstrated a lack of thought regarding different life circumstances.

Work in the service of God will make you strong. It has made me strong in both body and spirit, in ways that were inconceivable to me before. But we are not operating from the same definition of strong, which is why I will refrain from commenting further here, as it will only lead to discord.

I apologize, my comment came from a foul mood I have suffered lately. I pray for strength.

What I should have said instead was that certain forms of manual labor train the mind for resilience moreso than the body for physical strength. Repetitive movement of any kind takes a toll. I would not wish the chronic pain suffered from a lifetime of manual labor leading to herniated discs, blown out knees, and shredded rotator cuffs on anyone.
 
What do you consider a balanced diet?
Smaller meals, five times a day. Lean meat (mostly chicken, sometimes beef) , plenty of fresh fruit and vegetables. I cannot consume dairy. Try to minimize unnecessary amounts of carbohydrates (especially sugar.) I also drink plenty of water.
No alcohol or coffee.
 
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