Ukraine conflict lounge

Handsome Creepy Eel said:
Some context for that photo:

VestnikKakvaza said:
140 thousand Muslims celebrate Eid al-Adha in Moscow

About 140 thousand people celebrated Eid al-Adha in Moscow, and about 80 thousand Muslims came to the Moscow Cathedral Mosque, the head of the press service of the State Ministry of Interior in the capital, Andrei Galiakberov, said.

Population of Moscow:

Wikipedia said:
12.1 million (2012)

Muslims number around 1.5 million, equivalent to 14% of the city's population (similar to London). Altogether, Muslims in Russia are 9,400,000 or 6.5% of the total population.

A better question is: are there No-Go Zones in Moscow? Are there Shariah law zones in Moscow? Are there riots and destruction by Muslims? Are Muslims a protected class that can't be criticized or not indulged in any way on the pain of massive fines and jail time?

I live adjacent to a country with a 45% muslim population and visit frequently. Zero problems, as expected from secularized muslims anywhere.

I'm not a fan of Islam at all, but let's admit it: most of Europe's problems with Muslims [and other foreigners] are caused by suicidally pampering them and turning them into a protected political class, not in their numbers per se.

You are missing on one important point: most of the Moscow muslims,absolute majority of them, are newcomers.These are not Kazan Tatars.These are migrants from central asia,caucasus,afganistan and so on.Result of a careless migration policy and transparent borders.

Moscow does not have no go zones,true.But the change is creeping.
This was the last uprisal of Russians (mainly football hooligans as usual) against migration policy of Putin and against migrants (2010):

As I pointed out previously the fierce opponent of Putin-Navalny has devoted a huge chunk of his program to the changes to migration policy.He wants to reinstate visas for Central Asians,he wants to stop paying money for Chechnya,he wants to deport illegals etc. Again,as opposed to Putin's government policies.

This is like Trump vs Obama.Navalny wants to build a wall too.

Big Nilla

Russia should've aggressively lowered its interest rate to around 6-7% last year when the ruble was moving to 49-1 against the dollar. They missed that opportunity. Now that the ruble and oil prices are bumping up a little, Russia should take advantage of it and sneak in a 2% rate cut to bring the interest rate down to 9%. Would be nice if the privately owned RCB would take the brakes off the Russian economy.


Gold Member
High interest rates are bad in the short run, but good in the long run. Whoever is in control of these interest rates have a vested interest in long-term outcome of the country.

Big Nilla

High interest rates are good for a country?! That needs some explaining.

Any type of money loaned out with interest (even a low %) by a private federal bank is bad. Who gains that money and who loses it? Was it even earned?

High Russian interest rates suppress domestic business borrowing and a self-reliance investment/credit loop. Russian companies are then forced to borrow from outside of Russia since the interest rates are way lower. But that's being blocked by foreign countries. Heck, the money Russia borrows from outside Russia is Russia's own money being sent overseas, too. Ridiculous.

High interest rates don't lower inflation... or keep it lower. That's a fallacy. Can't trust official gov't inflation rates, but look at the low interest rates and low inflation rates of western countries. Russia's higher inflation is due mostly to importing too many high priced foreign things. The ruble weakening makes those prices even higher. That's why Russia's import substitution is so important. But the problem is with high domestic interest rate, companies can't profitably borrow to expand domestic production.

At the personal level, people borrowing to buy a house, a car, or using credit cards would obviously benefit from lower interest rates. The only people who benefit from higher interest rates are few... mostly those who pretty much have a monopoly on lending. A rent-seeking dominated economy is a dying economy. That's what we have in the western world.


Gold Member
You've got it exactly the opposite.

Who did well in 90's America? the people because of Reagan's policies of high interest rates in the 80's.

Low interest rates, good for the few at the top who get money first and bad for the bottom.

High interest rates bad short term, but clear out bad investment and make way for a prosperous future.

May not even matter at this point the western world is so far gone.


Gold Member
I was privileged enough to listen to the Russian Ambassador speak on the Ukraine conflict. He outlined multiple important points and essentially claimed that the Minsk agreement will face challenges because the pro-Kiev western backed government has a financial interest in the agreement never coming to fruition. In essence, the longer the conflict, the more the western backed government benefits due to financial money and aid.

Big Nilla

KorbenDallas said:
You've got it exactly the opposite.

Who did well in 90's America? the people because of Reagan's policies of high interest rates in the 80's.

Low interest rates, good for the few at the top who get money first and bad for the bottom.

High interest rates bad short term, but clear out bad investment and make way for a prosperous future.

May not even matter at this point the western world is so far gone.

We're jumping around here. QE and low interest rates definitely benefit people at the top as how this system is in the western world. Low interest rates also benefit gov'ts high in debt. But that has no relevance in regards to Russia's situation and possibly lowering interest rates to say 7% (which is still really high compared to the western world and its negative interest rates).

The US economy, since Nixon pulled the plug on gold convertibility, is based mostly on debt creation. The average American's standard of living and wages peaked in the early 70's. $18 trillion in gov't debt, trillions more in private/corporate debt, 2-income families, along with paper wealth (that can come and go) create a great illusion of prosperity. But it's a false prosperity that will soon shatter.

As far as high/low interest rates clearing out bad investments... that has to do with credit standards, not interest rates. Can't give a loan to anyone breathing.



Gold Member
I was having a conversation with students last night and we got on the subject of Ukrainian politics and all of the students defaulted to a helpless state wherein they just make fun of the system and the group agrees that votes don't count and no one can do anything to change the shitty system. Then they asked me if I was going to vote in the upcoming election and the inevitable "who are you going to vote for?" question came up.

I asked them if they had been following American politics and most had only heard the bad headlines about Trump. I told them that Trump was the only choice because he's the first candidate in decades who dictates his own policies due to the fact he is a self-made billionaire and has no "campaign contributors" to answer to.

The class had a unanimous distaste for Trump because of his talk about scaling back American military presence overseas. Ukrainians believe that if the US presence in Europe diminishes they will be helpless against a Russian invasion. I told them that if Putin wanted Ukraine he would have already taken it. They started to listen when I told them about how NATO shouldn't even exist because it was founded as an 'Anti-Soviet Coalition' and ever since the Soviet Union collapsed, instead of disbanding or scaling back, NATO has continued expansion towards Russia's borders. All the while the US installs military bases as it creeps further east coupled with western war mongering politicians talking about installing ballistic missile platforms in Ukraine, Poland, and the Baltics.

The conversation wasn't a bad one but it didn't really go anywhere as the general feeling was of unanimous helplessness and a complete dependence on the US for protection. But it got me thinking:

If a Trump presidency means reduced US military presence around the world and indeed in EE, what effect would that have on the current situation in Ukraine? If American and/or UN presence in Ukraine evaporates I think the opposite of what Ukrainians believe will happen (The DPR will push westward and takeover with Russia backing them!) would occur. Without any American influence in Ukraine the civil war would lose its purpose. When Putin sees that Ukraine is no longer a military objective of the west he won't have to focus on the region as the fire in his backyard will have been extinguished. Yes the Ukrainian politicians are still corrupt puppets of western bankers, however the chances for reunification would be strengthened because Ukraine would finally see stability return as American and Russian military presence will diminish.

Trump stated that he could make deals with Putin and Putin said that he liked Trump. It's crazy to think how quickly things can change when two men of greatness come together with only the best interest of their people at heart.

Leonard D Neubache

Gold Member
NomadofEU said:
The conversation wasn't a bad one but it didn't really go anywhere as the general feeling was of unanimous helplessness and a complete dependence on the US for protection...

Truth overdose can leave people a little but fuzzy.

Good work spreading the message, though.:thumbup:


Gold Member
Did Trump read my post?

@6:29 Trump talks about NATO being obsolete.

@7:18 Trump talks about US involvement in Ukraine - The US is the only NATO country involved, No other countries are partaking so why should the US bear the cost?:
"We're talking about Ukraine, get out, do this, do that. Ukraine is very far away from us. How come the countries surrounding the Ukraine aren't protesting?"


Gold Member
Heating up again in Donetsk as five Ukranian servicemen and two rebels killed yesterday in the north of the city.

The Ukrainian military says five of its soldiers have died in fighting just north of Donetsk - the second-highest death toll in one day this year.

Pro-Russian separatist rebels killed four in an ambush at Verkhnetoretskoye, near Avdiivka. The fifth died when his vehicle hit a landmine.

Ukrainian military spokesman Oleksandr Motuzyanyk confirmed the death toll. Early on Monday rebel mortars targeted Ukrainian troops in the same area.

Reports say two rebels were killed.

Heavy shelling by the Ukranian army also reported:

Ukrainian army shells Donetsk Republic with over 200 mines over night

A source in the DPR Defense Ministry said that "the Ukrainian side shelled the airport, the villages of Spartak, Zhabichevo and Vesyoloye, the Yasinovataya checkpoint and Dokuchayevsk"
I understand why the Ukrainians hate the Russians. Starvation and hunger under the Soviets. Those soviets were not so Russian after all. But all the hatred is directed to the Russians. And now those brothers hate each other.
Great powers have spheres of interest.
Russia’s interest is to be not invaded from the west. It has everywhere natural barriers but not to the west. The only defence they have is the distance. Their security imperative is to bring their borders an far to the west as possible.
To invade Russia, you need a good starting point. Starting in Berlin failed. Starting in Warsaw or Kiev has more chance of success.
If the US has a final understanding with Russia or if the US destroys itself in civil war it is quite possible that the old borders emerge again. And this will mean Ukraine will fall under Russian rule again. Like it always was.


Following yesterday's attempted terrorist attack in Crimea:

Ukrainian president orders forces on border with Crimea and eastern Ukraine on highest alert

Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko has instructed all military units near Crimea and the eastern Ukrainian Donbass region to be at the highest level of combat readiness.

Poroshenko announced the order after a military meeting on Thursday. It comes after Russia’s security service said Wednesday it had foiled a terrorist attack in Crimea plotted by Kiev.

Russia's Federal Security Service (FSB) said it had found a group of infiltrators in Crimea, near the Ukrainian border. The infiltrators were preparing to target Crimea infrastructure, the agency said. Explosive devices and ammunition were also discovered at the scene.

Kiev denied claims that it was behind the terrorist plot, and accused Moscow of provocation.

Russian President Vladimir Putin said on Wednesday that Ukraine has turned to "the practice of terrorism" and "is playing a dangerous game," calling Kiev's actions "stupid and criminal."