Ukraine conflict lounge

TigerMandingo said:
I think Putin made a huge mistake with Crimea. I know there are geostrategic considerations but I consider both Ukraine and Belarus to be huge drags on Russia. They are loser countries. I don’t care how historically close they are, the future lies with places like China, Japan, InDia etc. Now that Ukraine is defacto ruled by Jews it’s a lost cause.

I disagree.

Putin reincorporating Crimea into Russia was smart and necessary for many reasons. First, Crimea is literally the only way for Russia to have access to the Black Sea. Second, Crimea is overwhelmingly majority ethnic Russian meaning that Putin can't afford to ignore it. Third, this is a move that has made Putin popular among Russian nationalists and Russians in general partly because of reason number 2 as it brings security to ethnic Russians. Fourth, this was a way of proverbially "sticking it" to NATO and the USA for everything they've pulled against Russia with NATO expansion in East Europe. Also, if Putin didn't return Crimea into Russia, it's inevitable that NATO would've simply swallowed up Crimea and all of Ukraine without a single shot being fired. Also, US and EU sanctions have been basically useless in doing any damage to Russia because they weren't capable of doing so to begin with, but the sanctions are even more useless since many EU countries are still continuing to trade with Russia under the surface regardless.

What most people don't understand about the current Ukraine conflict is that there is no Russian invasion. Ethnic Russians who've lived on this land for centuries and have found themselves in the borders of an "independent Ukraine" are defending themselves from a bunch of lunatic followers of Stepan Bandera who are supposedly "Ukrainian nationalists" that are trying to genocide and ethnically cleanse them on the behalf of their US/EU/NATO masters.

Ukraine is not a real country (I don't mean this as an insult, it is simply objective fact). It is a bizarre anomaly and absurdity in the context of world history. It has literally never existed as a country in the history of this world up until the dissolution of the USSR in 1990. It was artificially conceived during the Communist period by the Soviets (Jews) to weaken the ethnic Russian element of the USSR. The word "Ukraine" literally means borderland or border region in not just Russian, but literally most Slavic languages. The historical roots of the conflict in Ukraine also stem from the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth's occupation of the region from the 15th century to the 18th century where it forced Catholicism upon the Russian population and actively managed to assimilate the Russian population of the Ukraine region away from its roots (at least in West Ukraine). After all, how can a region that has never been anything more than a literal borderland between Russia, Poland, Austria and Turkey for centuries even be considered a real country? It's literally bizarre.

The rebel republics of the DNR (Donetsk People's Republic) and LNR (Lughansk People's Republic) that are both in a Novorossiya confederation are exactly that, rebel and separatist entities by the ethnic Russian population of east "Ukraine". The Russian population of East Ukraine is fighting to exist upon the land that their ancestors have fought and died in countless wars to exist on for centuries. They're lucky that they have numbers greater than 5 million (This means they actually have the human resources to organize serious resistance) and that they actually have the support of the Russian government and Putin. They are literally fighting to resist an Operation Storm style scenario where they will be ethnically cleansed or even genocided from the land by the UkroNazi Junta.

Ukraine is a failed state and an absurdity of a country that literally serves as a NATO proxy to push for further NATO expansion against Russia and as an open air brothel for the whole world. However, Belarus is actually much more stable and prosperous than Ukraine under the intelligent leadership of Aleksander Lukashenko. Russia basically cannot afford to ignore Belarus and Ukraine because it has a huge ethnic, historical and geopolitical stake in denying this land from NATO and protecting what is rightfully Russian. The fact that Asian countries are economically prosperous and that China is becoming the center of world trade doesn't change any of this.
 
Mekorig said:
reciproke said:
Lika said:
Good news for Ukraine who might be forced by the US to make peace in Donbass soon:

http://thesaker.is/ukraine-will-be-coerced-into-making-peace-in-donbass/

Ah, "The Saker", the ominously duginist, neobolshevist geopolitics expert, dedicatedly anti-european, anti-white, living everywhere else than in the motherland where he can actually enjoy a stable society, but writing enthusiastically about the benefits of his mafia-run Eurasian Empire

And that is why i payed no attention to the article as soon i saw the web adress. The guys was hilarious to read during the active conflict. It almost sounded like a soviet official during the 70´s.

So you support the UkroNazi Junta because you think Russians are evil communists?
 

deleted_anonymous

Robin
Gold Member
Ah, was waiting for the evil nazi Junta electric boogalo . It's pretty easy to spot the Internet Vatnik Brigade nowadays by playing the Vatnik Bingo, since they are spouting the same "alternative facts" as always. But probably unlike them, I'm not paid to promote an image on Internet platforms so I just let that sink in without further comment.
 

Louis IX

Pelican
Aquarius said:
H1N1 said:
Lika said:
Good news for Ukraine who might be forced by the US to make peace in Donbass soon:

http://thesaker.is/ukraine-will-be-coerced-into-making-peace-in-donbass/

This is a very strange article. I don't see this happening at all, and the reasoning, to the extent there is any at all, strikes me as pretty tenuous. America is still taking a firm line against Russia. Chief negotiator for the US in the conflict, Volker, made a statement two days ago that makes it very clear that the conflict will end when Minsk is enacted and Russian troops are withdrawn from Ukraine's territory. Russia still denies that it has active duty troops in Ukraine's territory. We are a long way from resolution to the conflict, and it is unlikely to be solved by the Americans in my view.

American foreign policy is fairly non-committal, except for the occasions where it is actively interventionist (and usually disastrous). The American's were heavily involved in 2014, calling quite a lot of shots, installing Poroshenko et al. But in recent years their engagement has been very low indeed. Ukraine is not a foreign policy priority for the US, whatever lip service it pays it, and Ukraine is not going to be coerced into permanently ceding territory.

The likely result is some type of frozen conflict situation and restoration of civilian economic relations that will occur sometime next decade. While I don't see the US warming up to Russia anytime soon, I can see Europe doing so out of purely economic interests. And neither Europe nor Russia is truly willing to be a geopolitical and economic lapdog of the US and China, respectively. The recent decision to give Europeans, but not Americans, 16 day e-visa is a sign of things to come next decade.

Granted, political relations between Ukraine and Russia won't be solved for decades. Georgia (the country) doesn't even have diplomatic relations with Russia while trade has resumed. Likewise with Taiwan and China. I see Ukraine morphing into essentially Georgia but with 10 times the population, both in terms of strength of US ties and the extent of the restoration of relation with Russia.

Your analysis is interesting but you omit the fact that Ukraine unlike Georgia ; is essentially speaking in russian .there are so many dialects of Ukrainians ; Lingua Franca will always be russian apart from a few oblasts in the very west .
Even the alphabet ( bar one letter ) is the same ; unlike Georgia or Armenia etc .

Russians also have much more love for Ukraine in their heart than for Georgia or Armenia ; the culture is so much closer.

I think Ukraine will turn back to Russia naturally in 30-40 years max ; splitting the country in 3 parts would be the best solution for everyone
 

Louis IX

Pelican
TigerMandingo said:
I think Putin made a huge mistake with Crimea. I know there are geostrategic considerations but I consider both Ukraine and Belarus to be huge drags on Russia. They are loser countries. I don’t care how historically close they are, the future lies with places like China, Japan, InDia etc. Now that Ukraine is defacto ruled by Jews it’s a lost cause.

Ukraine and Belarus are the 2 countries Russia need for cheap labour .
Central Asians usually become kebab owners ( or Uzbek bread shops) ; builders and taxi drivers
Armenians usually integrate well and work for companies or have businesses on long term

Ukrainians work in services ( receptionists ; shop attendants etc ) and Belarusians too. It s actually very popular for russian people to call belarussian workers to fix houses or to export furnitures . It costs much less.the Russians pay and they come with car until Moscow region or a bit more east ; work and install everything ; get paid much more than in Belarus and then go back .

In addition they tend to adapt more in the society- especially in 2nd or 3rd tier cities until the Ural- as they are slavic and do not change the ethnic composition too much . Even though soviet union has died ; only half of the countries have started to actively reject russian language ; but Ukraine and Belarus ; even rejecting it will still speak it and their own language is not known by enough people and has been banned for too long to resuscitate in a swift manner . This is an important element which we tend to forget.

In addition Ukraine and Belarus were the granary of soviet union ; their agricultural production is still very valuable .

I remember that even at the end of Russia I saw in Sakhalin shops with the mention "belaruskie produkti". Now of course not all products are from Belarus but this relate to the capacity of Belarus to produce a lot of food and cereals

The fact that Ukraine and Belarus are failed states ( in a sense of economy not functioning and widespread corruption ) is actually benefiting to Russia and recently to Poland in order to get cheap labour. That is why radical Jews operate very strong control in Ukraine and will make sure things will never get better .

If you add the population of Ukraine and Belarus ; it makes about 53 millions.
Russia has around 144 millions. Ukraine and Belarus represent a third of the population and for many reasons ( religious ; cultural ) they are easy to integrate in russia. So they are not burden states

In addition Crimea was a fantastic move from Putin ; All Russians are thankful to him and it opens up even more the access to Turkey for Trade
 

Louis IX

Pelican
KnjazMihailo said:
TigerMandingo said:
I think Putin made a huge mistake with Crimea. I know there are geostrategic considerations but I consider both Ukraine and Belarus to be huge drags on Russia. They are loser countries. I don’t care how historically close they are, the future lies with places like China, Japan, InDia etc. Now that Ukraine is defacto ruled by Jews it’s a lost cause.

I disagree.

Putin reincorporating Crimea into Russia was smart and necessary for many reasons. First, Crimea is literally the only way for Russia to have access to the Black Sea. Second, Crimea is overwhelmingly majority ethnic Russian meaning that Putin can't afford to ignore it. Third, this is a move that has made Putin popular among Russian nationalists and Russians in general partly because of reason number 2 as it brings security to ethnic Russians. Fourth, this was a way of proverbially "sticking it" to NATO and the USA for everything they've pulled against Russia with NATO expansion in East Europe. Also, if Putin didn't return Crimea into Russia, it's inevitable that NATO would've simply swallowed up Crimea and all of Ukraine without a single shot being fired. Also, US and EU sanctions have been basically useless in doing any damage to Russia because they weren't capable of doing so to begin with, but the sanctions are even more useless since many EU countries are still continuing to trade with Russia under the surface regardless.

What most people don't understand about the current Ukraine conflict is that there is no Russian invasion. Ethnic Russians who've lived on this land for centuries and have found themselves in the borders of an "independent Ukraine" are defending themselves from a bunch of lunatic followers of Stepan Bandera who are supposedly "Ukrainian nationalists" that are trying to genocide and ethnically cleanse them on the behalf of their US/EU/NATO masters.

Ukraine is not a real country (I don't mean this as an insult, it is simply objective fact). It is a bizarre anomaly and absurdity in the context of world history. It has literally never existed as a country in the history of this world up until the dissolution of the USSR in 1990. It was artificially conceived during the Communist period by the Soviets (Jews) to weaken the ethnic Russian element of the USSR. The word "Ukraine" literally means borderland or border region in not just Russian, but literally most Slavic languages. The historical roots of the conflict in Ukraine also stem from the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth's occupation of the region from the 15th century to the 18th century where it forced Catholicism upon the Russian population and actively managed to assimilate the Russian population of the Ukraine region away from its roots (at least in West Ukraine). After all, how can a region that has never been anything more than a literal borderland between Russia, Poland, Austria and Turkey for centuries even be considered a real country? It's literally bizarre.

The rebel republics of the DNR (Donetsk People's Republic) and LNR (Lughansk People's Republic) that are both in a Novorossiya confederation are exactly that, rebel and separatist entities by the ethnic Russian population of east "Ukraine". The Russian population of East Ukraine is fighting to exist upon the land that their ancestors have fought and died in countless wars to exist on for centuries. They're lucky that they have numbers greater than 5 million (This means they actually have the human resources to organize serious resistance) and that they actually have the support of the Russian government and Putin. They are literally fighting to resist an Operation Storm style scenario where they will be ethnically cleansed or even genocided from the land by the UkroNazi Junta.

Ukraine is a failed state and an absurdity of a country that literally serves as a NATO proxy to push for further NATO expansion against Russia and as an open air brothel for the whole world. However, Belarus is actually much more stable and prosperous than Ukraine under the intelligent leadership of Aleksander Lukashenko. Russia basically cannot afford to ignore Belarus and Ukraine because it has a huge ethnic, historical and geopolitical stake in denying this land from NATO and protecting what is rightfully Russian. The fact that Asian countries are economically prosperous and that China is becoming the center of world trade doesn't change any of this.
I have read this analysis with big attention . However there is a big orthodox propaganda in what you wrote .
Ukraine is a real country . Just the borders are wrong . There is also Ukrainian culture and it is older than the russian one . Just check when Kiev was created and when Moscow was and see the difference . The Kievan rus is essentially an Ukrainian thing . Don't be fooled by the word Rus. Only idiot russians believe it has a link with Russia .The old Slavic you can hear in churches in Russia or Ukraine is closer to Ukrainian than to russian .

Ukraine has a distinct culture and language . Soviet Union and before Russian empire have damaged this culture so it became more or less dormant .

About Donetsk and Lugansk yes they have split with Kiev but they did not give up their ukrainian roots either . The brave people who stayed there are still learning Ukrainian at school and ukrainian poets .

And be careful when you speak about the Nazi junta : this is a typical rhetoric to discredit Ukraine and to make us believe that the whole population supports the Kiev regime . In a way it s good but it s not accurate . Most of the Nazi people were assassinated in restaurants after Maidan and commandos such as Azov are under financial control of Jews . They are more or less pressure groups who operate a big propaganda and force people to donate for them or to enroll for ATO ( typical American vocabulary "Anti terrorist organisation" ) .there is noone apart from very small groups of paramilitary and alcoholic skinheads in the middle of the night who declare themselves Nazis in Ukraine.

At the beginning there was a big anti russian popular movement but a few years later ( now) people are more and more sceptic about the EU and understood ukriane got caught into a situation where they are hostage of big powers fighting to steal their resources .
Zelenskiy s election was to punish all the others ; deep inside they knew he is Jewish and he has his hands tied by Kolomoyskiy

Ukrainians are just thinking to emigrate to Poland or to Russia or to the USA / Canada etc as they know the country will go more and more into economic failure . But a lot of people do not like their own politicians and do not support the war in Donetsk / Lugansk. The last general elections show this too .

I hope that Zelenskiy will be able to find a deal and stop the war . If there is a federal system applied with some autonomy for Lugansk and Donetsk the war will stop .

Another thing which is never mentioned about Ukraine is that the last laws against minorities are discriminating Hungarians (Zarkarpattya - Uzhgorod zone ) ; Poles ( Lviv - bastion wirh ivano frankivsk of the strongest nationalism ) and also Romanians ( chernivtsi and Odessa regions ).

These nations don't have good relations with Russia apart from Hungary. So it won't be impossible that Russia will help Hungary to get some territory back ; especially since Orban is relatively isolated in the EU.

A last note : there are many mixed couple in Ukraine . Some people have one Ukrainian parent and one Russian. Even inside families people do not agree with each other . There is no clear block of russian ethnics Vs Ukrainian ethnics .

If you stay away from Crimea and from the very west ; people are in general moderately pro ukrianian but I came across many people during my working years in Ukraine who voted openly for Dobkin or who want to go back to Putin and reject the EU.

The situation is not black and white ; as the EU/NATO and the Russian propaganda both suggest
 
reciproke said:
Ah, was waiting for the evil nazi Junta electric boogalo . It's pretty easy to spot the Internet Vatnik Brigade nowadays by playing the Vatnik Bingo, since they are spouting the same "alternative facts" as always. But probably unlike them, I'm not paid to promote an image on Internet platforms so I just let that sink in without further comment.

Lol ok. I apologize. The term "Ukro-Nazi Junta" is factually inaccurate. Words such as Nazi and fascist are overused in conversation. A more accurate term instead of "Ukro-Nazi Junta" would be "Banderist Junta". Ukrainian nationalists are first and foremost followers of Stepan Bandera, not Adolf Hitler.

The fact that you resort to calling me a Russian troll and claim i'm paid by the Kremlin only indicates that you're not even interested in considering whether the facts that you believe are true about this situation are actually true at all. Oh and i should add that i'm not a Russian at all.

There is a Russian saying that perfectly summarizes all the hysteria and ranting of Russophobes, "The dog barks and the caravan moves on".
 

Louis IX

Pelican
KnjazMihailo said:
reciproke said:
Ah, was waiting for the evil nazi Junta electric boogalo . It's pretty easy to spot the Internet Vatnik Brigade nowadays by playing the Vatnik Bingo, since they are spouting the same "alternative facts" as always. But probably unlike them, I'm not paid to promote an image on Internet platforms so I just let that sink in without further comment.

Lol ok. I apologize. The term "Ukro-Nazi Junta" is factually inaccurate. Words such as Nazi and fascist are overused in conversation. A more accurate term instead of "Ukro-Nazi Junta" would be "Banderist Junta". Ukrainian nationalists are first and foremost followers of Stepan Bandera, not Adolf Hitler.

The fact that you resort to calling me a Russian troll and claim i'm paid by the Kremlin only indicates that you're not even interested in considering whether the facts that you believe are true about this situation are actually true at all. Oh and i should add that i'm not a Russian at all.

There is a Russian saying that perfectly summarizes all the hysteria and ranting of Russophobes, "The dog barks and the caravan moves on".

God knows how many times i have been accused to be a "Kremlin Agent" ....
I would never call someone who is pro american a Washington agent... this tells a lot about the level of panic and paranoia of the russophobic hordes
 
Polniy_Sostav said:
I have read this analysis with big attention . However there is a big orthodox propaganda in what you wrote .
Ukraine is a real country . Just the borders are wrong . There is also Ukrainian culture and it is older than the russian one . Just check when Kiev was created and when Moscow was and see the difference . The Kievan rus is essentially an Ukrainian thing . Don't be fooled by the word Rus. Only idiot russians believe it has a link with Russia .The old Slavic you can hear in churches in Russia or Ukraine is closer to Ukrainian than to russian .

Ukraine has a distinct culture and language . Soviet Union and before Russian empire have damaged this culture so it became more or less dormant .

About Donetsk and Lugansk yes they have split with Kiev but they did not give up their ukrainian roots either . The brave people who stayed there are still learning Ukrainian at school and ukrainian poets .


And be careful when you speak about the Nazi junta : this is a typical rhetoric to discredit Ukraine and to make us believe that the whole population supports the Kiev regime . In a way it s good but it s not accurate . Most of the Nazi people were assassinated in restaurants after Maidan and commandos such as Azov are under financial control of Jews . They are more or less pressure groups who operate a big propaganda and force people to donate for them or to enroll for ATO ( typical American vocabulary "Anti terrorist organisation" ) .there is noone apart from very small groups of paramilitary and alcoholic skinheads in the middle of the night who declare themselves Nazis in Ukraine.

At the beginning there was a big anti russian popular movement but a few years later ( now) people are more and more sceptic about the EU and understood ukriane got caught into a situation where they are hostage of big powers fighting to steal their resources .
Zelenskiy s election was to punish all the others ; deep inside they knew he is Jewish and he has his hands tied by Kolomoyskiy

Ukrainians are just thinking to emigrate to Poland or to Russia or to the USA / Canada etc as they know the country will go more and more into economic failure . But a lot of people do not like their own politicians and do not support the war in Donetsk / Lugansk. The last general elections show this too .

I hope that Zelenskiy will be able to find a deal and stop the war . If there is a federal system applied with some autonomy for Lugansk and Donetsk the war will stop .

Another thing which is never mentioned about Ukraine is that the last laws against minorities are discriminating Hungarians (Zarkarpattya - Uzhgorod zone ) ; Poles ( Lviv - bastion wirh ivano frankivsk of the strongest nationalism ) and also Romanians ( chernivtsi and Odessa regions ).

These nations don't have good relations with Russia apart from Hungary. So it won't be impossible that Russia will help Hungary to get some territory back ; especially since Orban is relatively isolated in the EU.

A last note : there are many mixed couple in Ukraine . Some people have one Ukrainian parent and one Russian. Even inside families people do not agree with each other . There is no clear block of russian ethnics Vs Ukrainian ethnics .

If you stay away from Crimea and from the very west ; people are in general moderately pro ukrianian but I came across many people during my working years in Ukraine who voted openly for Dobkin or who want to go back to Putin and reject the EU.

The situation is not black and white ; as the EU/NATO and the Russian propaganda both suggest

I respect the fact that you've aimed to engage with me on a serious level with this topic. I actually agree with everything you've written here besides the parts in bold.

Claiming that Kievan Rus was a Ukrainian entity simply because Kiev is currently the capital of Ukraine is similar to Turks claiming that Anatolia and Constantinople are rightfully Turkish because Constantinople is renamed into Istanbul and currently the capital of Turkey. There is a reason why the word "Rus" features in that entity. The "Kievan" part simply features because Kiev was the capital of Rus at that time. Of course, you're also ignoring the part where the word "Ukraine" means borderland in both Russian, Ukrainian and many other languages as i've previously stated. Nobody talked about the Ukraine during the times of Kievan Rus and the term "Ukraine" probably didn't even exist in the 10th century. This is a complex intellectual debate about early medieval history and the autochtony of Russians vs Ukrainians. I'm frankly not an expert on this matter but I'm inclined to agree with the fact that Kievan Rus was effectively a Russian ethnic entity. Ukrainians are a regional variation of Russians, not the other way around. Similar to how Belarussians (Literally has "Russian" in the word!) are a similar regional variation of Russians.

Of course, Ukranians and Russians are much more similar in terms of culture, race, language and so on than Greeks and Turks are. A more accurate analogy of the relationship between Ukrainians and Russians would be of that between English and American, Greeks and Cypriots, Serbs and Montenegrins or Germans and Austrians. Just like Americans are a regional variation of Englishmen and Anglo-Saxons, so are Cypriots a regional variation of Greeks and Hellenes, Montenegrins a regional variation of Serbs and South Slavs, Austrians a regional variation of Germans. Just like with all these cases, Ukrainians are a regional variation of Russians whether they like it or not. The reason why anti-Russian sentiment is encouraged is in order to artificially separate these two groups of people from each other even though they are naturally inclined to connect and merge with one another. This is actually a very minor and unimportant issue but is only critically relevant because there is a war and geoploitical conflict over The Ukraine right now.

It is completely unrealistic for Zelensky to be able to negotiate peace with Lugansk and Donetsk. The Banderists and so on are still very influential despite Poroshenko losing the election. The USA, EU and NATO still want the war in Ukraine to continue to undermine Russia. The Minsk agreement and accords are completely useless and incapable of achieving any lasting peace because the USA, NATO and Banderists don't truly desire peace at all on any terms that are less than complete victory over Russians in East Ukraine. They are only interested in keeping the Ukraine conflict frozen in order to keep a sore wound open right next to Russia. In some ways, a frozen conflict is fine because that's something everyone can agree on and won't cause more problems for everyone. Eventually there has to be peace in Ukraine because the conflict is only pushed by the USA and NATO. Their influence across the world is clearly decreasing over time and its possible they may be willing to concede on Ukraine to Russia in exchange for achieving other geopolitical goals as some have predicted. Regardless of what exactly happens in the future, the Ukraine will continue to be in a state of frozen conflict for the next several years at least. Peace or something like that can't realistically happen any earlier.
 

Louis IX

Pelican
I have a friend of mine who joined ATO two years ago.
He was not paid on time and he told me all "generals" were Georgians paid 5000 USD a month .
Half of his "squad" resigned due to this fact.

Funnily enough the common language in army was Russian .
 

Louis IX

Pelican
I have a friend of mine who joined ATO two years ago.
He was not paid on time and he told me all "generals" were Georgians paid 5000 USD a month .
Half of his "squad" resigned due to this fact.

Funnily enough the common language in army was Russian .
 
Polniy_Sostav said:
I have a friend of mine who joined ATO two years ago.
He was not paid on time and he told me all "generals" were Georgians paid 5000 USD a month .
Half of his "squad" resigned due to this fact.

Funnily enough the common language in army was Russian .

Well that's not surprising because those Georgians are probably the same ones from the 2008 Russo-Georgian war who got crushingly defeated by the Russian Army.

It's not a surprise that they can't defeat the Russians of East Ukraine lol.
 

deleted_anonymous

Robin
Gold Member
Sorry to interrupt your circle jerk

Most of the Nazi people were assassinated in restaurants after Maidan and commandos such as Azov are under financial control of Jews

Funny, how this meme still is spouted as some kind of argument, probably some PsyOps to sway western Nationalists. By the same people that use rhetorics like "UkroNazis". Like any regular military unit, Azov is financed by the taxpayer. And like anywhere in Ukraine, Oligarchs invest in enterprises with dedicated economical interests and bid on the outcome. This doesn't take away from the cause itself.

I generally don't think I'm going to convince you out of your comfy position of defending against imaginary "Russophobes", but it definitely helps neutral readers to recognize the bullshit rhetorics employed by Neobolshevists. Probably the strangest thing is that foreigners that have nothing to do with the conflict whatsoever willingly take on Kreml rhetorics on their own, just because having an alternative position to their system is more attractive to them and they genuinely think that the enemy of their enemy is their friend.

There is a Russian saying that perfectly summarizes all the hysteria and ranting of Russophobes, "The dog barks and the caravan moves on".

What exactly is a Russian? Technically, a Chechen would be a Russian, too. The Millions of Muslim immigrants living in the big Russian cities are Russians. Or are you talking about ethnic Russians? Like they are some kind of cattle that can be moved around due to formal semantics, regardless if they want to be ruled by the Kreml or not?
What nowadays constitutes Russia has only been recently be called so. Previously it was known as the Principality of Moscow, an ally of the Mongols, that violently conquered former Rus' territory and incorporated a lot of asian tartaric peoples. The actual descendants of the Rus would be Ukraine (Ruthenians/Russinians) and Belarus.

To hide this fact, the Russian Federation promotes a soviet like civic patriotism and hides behind terms like "Russophobes" against criticism, a term that useful idiots willingly use in their rhetorics while not seeing the big picture that the big Russian cities are full of noneuropeans invaders - unlike in i.e. Ukraine, which is still predominantly white and dedicatedly anti-communist. This also isn't an ethnic conflict between Russians and Ukrainians. Anyone who thinks so has bought in to the PR machine, probably not even getting paid, which is maybe the biggest PR stunt ever.

This is a conflict about a brand of Eurasian Globalism employed by corrupt Oligarchs vs. Freedom and Self-Determination of Europeans. Who finances what side and what point and who benefits from playing bidding games doesn't take away from the cause, NATO yada yada, EU yadayada. Only Sociopaths and moral relativists think in these opportunistic terms. But I genuinely believe that it's mostly ignorance that let's you embrace this false dichotomy like your life depends on it.
 

Louis IX

Pelican
Reciproke ; I am open to dialogue but facts are facts
Kolomoyski has a treble citizenship ; Israel Cyprus Ukraine .
He and his guys had the power to storm city buildings in Dnipropetrovsk area during the crisis .
He also has frozen all Crimean accounts after Russia taking over and stole the money .
Sergei litvinov from dnipro bataillon admitted kolomoyskiy was the payer to finance murders.
Kolomoyskiy controls Aidar ; Dnipro ; Azov and Donbass bataillons.
In the case of Aidar ; we know their links with Parubiy.
I don't even need to say what I saw with my own eyes in football stadiums or at supermarket where people from Azov were forcing people who donate ; inducing old women and young women or resourceless men...
On another note :

Hunter Biden ( the son of Joe ) has been named to.the board of directors of Burisma Holdings ; drilling gas in Ukraine . The deal is protected by Us debate bill 2277.

Kolomoyskiy owns Burisma Holdings ; which is registered in Cyprus.

He is also worth 6 billion dollars and has created the Jewish European parliament .....( With his buddy Vadim Rabinovich)

Only a fool cannot see the role of the dangerous radical Jew Kolomoyskiy in selling Ukraine from the Russian mafia s hands to the NATO cartel .

The Ukrainian conflict is the illustration of the fight between two Jewish clans ; the Rothschild/Rockefeller clan ( I would call this clan NATO/domination without sharing ) and the Lubavich clan ( for a globalist multipolar world ) close to Putin
Young Christians are paying the price daily for choosing a side ; which is explains the pathologic Russophobia from English speaking and European media .
Btw I'm not sure why you talks about neobolshevism.
 

deleted_anonymous

Robin
Gold Member
Polniy_Sostav said:
Reciproke ; I am open to dialogue but facts are facts
Kolomoyski has a treble citizenship ; Israel Cyprus Ukraine .
He and his guys had the power to storm city buildings in Dnipropetrovsk area during the crisis .
He also has frozen all Crimean accounts after Russia taking over and stole the money .
Sergei litvinov from dnipro bataillon admitted kolomoyskiy was the payer to finance murders.
Kolomoyskiy controls Aidar ; Dnipro ; Azov and Donbass bataillons.
In the case of Aidar ; we know their links with Parubiy.
I don't even need to say what I saw with my own eyes in football stadiums or at supermarket where people from Azov were forcing people who donate ; inducing old women and young women or resourceless men...
On another note :

Hunter Biden ( the son of Joe ) has been named to.the board of directors of Burisma Holdings ; drilling gas in Ukraine . The deal is protected by Us debate bill 2277.

Kolomoyskiy owns Burisma Holdings ; which is registered in Cyprus.

He is also worth 6 billion dollars and has created the Jewish European parliament .....( With his buddy Vadim Rabinovich)

Only a fool cannot see the role of the dangerous radical Jew Kolomoyskiy in selling Ukraine from the Russian mafia s hands to the NATO cartel .

The Ukrainian conflict is the illustration of the fight between two Jewish clans ; the Rothschild/Rockefeller clan ( I would call this clan NATO/domination without sharing ) and the Lubavich clan ( for a globalist multipolar world ) close to Putin
Young Christians are paying the price daily for choosing a side ; which is explains the pathologic Russophobia from English speaking and European media .
Btw I'm not sure why you talks about neobolshevism.

"Sorry guys, I know you want freedom and to defend your country, but at some point through some corners we received funding by a jew. Lay down your weapons, the last thing we want is people on the Internet to think we are into that".

By your logic, America controls the Taliban, because the CIA funded them in the 70s. This isn't how it works.

By your logic enemies could discredit anyone like that by transferring money to them. From the outside, they are clearly funded by the enemy.

Again, all voluntary units are part of the regular army that is financed with tax money. What you are quoting is a tiny period in 2014/2015. What's your point?

And naturally, they use all the help they can get. What would you do instead? Roll over and die? Ridiculous. You are using a false dichotomy here - who do you think supports the other side, sometimes at the same time?
 
Zbigniew Brzezinski predicted back in 1996 that there would be a war over eastern Ukraine and Crimea, in his book the Grand Chessboard. He wrote that it is in the Western Establishment's interests to take control of Ukraine away from Russia because without it Russia cannot be a Eurasian empire that could threaten Anglo ZOG global hegemony. In that sense, Brzezinski wrote that Ukraine is the single most important "geostrategic pivot" on the Eurasian chessboard.

Sorry Ukrainian nationalists and Banderites, but you are just useful idiots and pawns for the Anglo American Zionist Establishment. Brzezinski admits so himself in Grand Chessboard, and he devoted a lot of the book to talking about Russia and Ukraine.

Ukraine, a new and important space on the Eurasian chessboard, is a geopolitical pivot because its very existence as an independent country helps to transform Russia. Without Ukraine, Russia ceases to be a Eurasian empire. Russia without Ukraine can still strive for imperial status, but it would then become a predominantly Asian imperial state ... However, if Moscow regains control over Ukraine, with its 52 million people and major resources as well as its access to the Black Sea, Russia automatically again regains the wherewithal to become a powerful imperial state, spanning Europe and Asia.
--p. 46
Most troubling of all was the loss of Ukraine .... it represented a vital geopolitical setback for the Russian state. The repudiation of more than three hundred years of Russian imperial history meant the loss of a potentially rich industrial and agricultural economy and of 52 million people ethnically and religiously sufficiently close to the Russians to make Russia into a truly large and confident imperial state ... the loss of Ukraine was geopoliticaly pivotal, for it drastically limited Russia's geostrategic options.
--p. 92
Most important, however, is Ukraine. As the EU and NATO expand, Ukraine will eventually be in the position to choose whether it wishes to be part of either organisation ... Although this will take time, it is not too early for the West--while further enhancing its economic and security ties with Kiev--to begin pointing at the decade 2005-2015 as a reasonable time frame for the initiation of Ukraine's progressive inclusion.
--p. 121
Ukraine's determination to preserve its independence was encouraged by external support. Although initially the West, especially the United States, had been tardy in recognising the geopolitical importance of a separate Ukrainian state, by the mid 1990s both America and Germany became strong backers of Kiev's separate identity ... without Ukraine, as already noted, an imperial restoration based on either the CIS or on Eurasianism was not a viable option.
--p. 113
The states deserving America's strongest geopolitical support are Azerbaijan, Uzbekistan, and (outside this region) Ukraine, all three being geopolitically pivotal. Indeed, Kiev's role reinforces the argument that Ukraine is the critical state, insofar as Russia's own future evolution is concerned.
--p. 149
The consolidation of a sovereign Ukraine, which in the meantime redefines itself as a Central European state and engages in closer integration with Central Europe, is a critically important component of such a policy.
--p. 203

Azov is funded and controlled by Jewish oligarchs. Usually the same exact people who support Azov say Putin is a Jewish puppet because there are some Jewish oligarchs involved with him, but if Azov does the same thing, it's OK? Ukraine, the only country outside of Israel with a Jewish President and Jewish Prime Minister, with Azov Nazis fighting for their government. What a clown country.

Azov are obviously pawns that are useful to the Anglo American Zionist Establishment as long as their energies are directed against Russia. Once they're no longer useful, the NATO/EU-controlled puppet government will get rid of them because they are bad optics and pose a threat. The head of Azov has already claimed that the SBU (Security Service of Ukraine) has tried to assassinate him. Not surprising.

The only mistake Putin made in 2014 is that he did not go far enough. He should have annexed the entirety of Ukraine, or at least the eastern and central two-thirds. Only liberating Crimea puts Russia in a weird middle ground where much of the Ukrainian population is agitated because of the war in the east, but it's a frozen conflict with no end in sight that has become a burden on Russia, and especially Russia-Europe relations that are geopolitically vital for countering the Anglo ZOG menace. So it was a mistake only going half way with Crimea.
 
I will also add this about Ukraine/Azov:
remember how the European and American media always portray Western nationalists as "Nazis", "fascists," white supremacists, etc.? And even the Polish nationalists were characterized in a similar way during the gathering on Poland's independence day.

Yet, since the start of the Ukraine crisis, the same media that never hesitates to condemn any Westerner to the right of Mitt Romney as a Nazi aggressively counter signaled those in Russia who said that Ukrainian Maidan protests were largely dominated by self-admitted National Socialists. We all remember John McCain going to visit Oleg Tyanibok, or whatever his name is, the National Social Party leader in Ukraine. I distinctly remember around 2014-2015 this was at its peak, with Americans saying any claims of there being Nazi groups at the Maidan is just "Russian propaganda." Only in the past couple of years has the US media reluctantly beginning to admit the existence of groups like Azov, but even then some accounts openly praise these groups that are fighting in the "ATO".

So the globalists are anti-nationalist in the West, but they have no problem with Ukrainian nationalism and even open National Socialism in Ukraine. NATO's official YT channel even put out a video a few years back that praised a group of anti-communist Baltic State rebels who had collaborated with Germany during WW2. Naturally the comment section was full of anti-Russian Baltic and Ukrainian NatSoc types. It was bizarre to see these people praising NATO, an organisation that Brzezinski identifies in Grand Chessboard as vital for the Anglo American Empire's continued domination of the European continent, which is one of the aspects that makes its control of Eurasia and ultimately the world possible.

So clearly the establishment is on the side of the Ukrainian nationalists. Yet these Eastern European nationalist types want Westerners to believe that these low IQ football hooligans are going to outmaneuver and outsmart international Jewry? lmao. They say they're using NATO and Jewish support temporarily as an advantage, and that they are using them, when it's really the other way around.
 

deleted_anonymous

Robin
Gold Member
Azov is funded and controlled by Jewish oligarchs.

Whew lad, that meme is tough to get rid of. As all Ukrainian military, it is being financed by taxpayers. I've made two posts for you that you gallantly ignored.

Who is trying to use whom as a pawn is completely irrelevant. What Brzezinski wrote is totally irrelevant. It doesn't matter if media portrays whom as good and bad.

The cause is righteous and it's the moral choice. At the end of the day, it's all you need to know. What you are trying to do is to use economic and geopolitical arguments to justify the subjugation by a globalist mafia of an independent people. You are playing exactly the same corrupt and immoral political game which is the false dichotomy of Nato vs. Eurasia. The Russian Federation is just a different kind of Globalism and if you think her Oligarchs are a different "kind of breed" then whew, you're totally bonkers.
 
reciproke said:
Azov is funded and controlled by Jewish oligarchs.

Whew lad, that meme is tough to get rid of. As all Ukrainian military, it is being financed by taxpayers. I've made two posts for you that you gallantly ignored.

Except for the inconvenient fact that Kolomoisky and other oligarchs have openly admitted to funding Azov and other nationalist battalions. This is publicly available information. It's true that Azov is legally part of the National Guard, but in effect in many ways it's a private army, and part of their funding comes from oligarchs. Like the rest of Ukraine's governmental institutions it is taking sides in the struggle between different clans of oligarchs vying for power.

Who is trying to use whom as a pawn is completely irrelevant. What Brzezinski wrote is totally irrelevant. It doesn't matter if media portrays whom as good and bad.

What a big brained take.

The cause is righteous and it's the moral choice. At the end of the day, it's all you need to know. What you are trying to do is to use economic and geopolitical arguments to justify the subjugation by a globalist mafia of an independent people. You are playing exactly the same corrupt and immoral political game which is the false dichotomy of Nato vs. Eurasia. The Russian Federation is just a different kind of Globalism and if you think her Oligarchs are a different "kind of breed" then whew, you're totally bonkers.

Not really, you're describing it too simplistically. Russia is a imperialist, not globalist. Russia has always been an empire, a righteous and moral one as the successor of the Holy Byzantine Imperium. Oligarchs in Russia are only a temporary problem that will be resolved in time. NATO vs. Russia is not a false dichotomy, and if you chose to ignore geopolitics, that doesn't make you immune from it, it just means you lose by default.

Ukraine, as a weak country, will either be controlled by one Great Power or another. In this case it's either Russia or Anglo ZOG, and it is very much preferable for both Ukrainians and everyone else for it to be the former.

Gradually it seems more Ukrainians are coming to realise that the EU and the West don't need them as anything more than vehicle to use against Russia, and that Ukraine without Russian support is merely a giant Moldova. It is still completely oriented for trade with Russia.
 

deleted_anonymous

Robin
Gold Member
Except for the inconvenient fact that Kolomoisky and other oligarchs have openly admitted to funding Azov and other nationalist battalions.
In 2014. I've now made three posts about being that bizarre and bringing it up repeatedly. Is there actually a soviet agent school that teaches agents to repeat rhetorics until everyone believes it?

Not really, you're describing it too simplistically. Russia is a imperialist, not globalist.

Semantics, you whine about your Anglo-American Empire but fail to see the a different brand of the same phenomenon. Reason for this is probably because you are not living there and get your information from intellectual think tanks romanticizing their enemy's enemy.

Russia has always been an empire, a righteous and moral one as the successor of the Holy Byzantine Imperium. Oligarchs in Russia are only a temporary problem that will be resolved in time.

Heartily chuckle. I just let that masturbation fantasy sink in.

NATO vs. Russia is not a false dichotomy, and if you chose to ignore geopolitics, that doesn't make you immune from it, it just means you lose by default.

You are continuing to play the game by their rules, rules that they can change as they desire. You will end up with the same sociopath mindset as our political caste if you don't already have it, to begin with.

Ukraine, as a weak country, will either be controlled by one Great Power or another. In this case it's either Russia or Anglo ZOG, and it is very much preferable for both Ukrainians and everyone else for it to be the former.

Also heartily chuckle if you really think Russia is a stronghold against that. I've indicated enough that the same breed of Oligarchs is active there and you just continue your act. Face it, you're bonkers and probably not even getting paid for being it. At least prostitutes take money for their services.

Gradually it seems more Ukrainians are coming to realise that the EU and the West don't need them as anything more than vehicle to use against Russia, and that Ukraine without Russian support is merely a giant Moldova. It is still completely oriented for trade with Russia.

Russia itself is a giant Moldavia. And unless Russia, Ukraine is still predominantly white since it doesn't forcefully incorporate independent Nations (like Chechnya) while playing the Self-Determination card for their own interest groups on i.e. Crimea. Have a check about the demographic developments and the Muslim population. Muh multicultural Empire, sure. It's just an iteration of Soviet Communist doctrine on top of the carcass of the Russian Empire.

At the end of the day both Nations are borderline broken. But when it comes to development, it should be easy to pick a favorite. A multicultural, globalist, Eurasian Empire that works purely by force versus a free and independent European(!) nation trying to embrace their native culture. It's really a no brainer and always fascinating how people come with convoluted arguments against it.
 
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