Ukraine conflict lounge

La Águila Negra

Ostrich
Protestant

False flag inbound? They tried it twice in Syria but got sniffed out by international inspectors.

These types of false flag attacks are incredibly dangerous because of the heavy emotional response it draws from the public. It's the perfect wave of moral indignation to 'base' military escalation on.

In that regard the 2013 Douma Chemical Attack and 2018 Khan Shaykhoun Chemical Attack were successful operations in the sense that they laid the groundwork for increased US interventionism in Syria. The fact that this didn't materialize in the end had more to do with mess-ups afterwards. The general public in the West wanted an eye for an eye for Babykiller Assad, and domestic political opponents of these policies were easily sidelined.

Also, the truth about these false flag attacks only started coming out years after the incidents, mainly thanks to Seymour Hersh who did incredible work uncovering the depths of the deception.

Especially the 2013 Douma attack, which killed between 400 and 1500 people instantly, brought the US neo-cons very close to their goal which was a Libyan style no-fly zone (ie. an extensive bombing campaign) and possible a limited number of boots on the ground.

Everything was in motion and moving towards the target. Yet at some point (2 days before his deadline) Obama pulled the plug on the intended bombing campaign claiming that he needed Congressional approval before he went in. It is still not clear what exactly made him change his mind as everything was set and ready to go. In the days after that empty suit John Kerry made the remark, on live television, 'that the air strikes could be averted if Syria turned over every single bit of its chemical weapons stockpiles within a week, but Syria isn't about to do it and it can't be done'.

Lavrov quickly jumped in later that day saying that Russia would do it for Syria instead.

As a fun fact, the WMDs used for these staged attacks were smuggled into Syria from Turkey and one of the suppliers of the Sarin gas was Ukraine. This was pre-Maidan. This was reported on by Serena Shim. Serena Shim was then accused of being a spy by Turkish intelligence and she died two days after this accusation in a very suspicious car accident on the Syrian border.

Other outlets used for this scheme, and they need to be named, were Bellingcat and the White Helmets. Both are funded by the Deep State and serve as nominally 'independent' organisations that can be used to prop up existing narratives through different angles.

It's the same Bellingcat that is now non-stop spouting anti-Russia garbage
 
Last edited:

Going strong

Crow
Trad Catholic
Gold Member
Weirdly, the (gay and crazy) West seem intent on provoking Russia into a war (a war that the gay diverse Western armies cannot win on the ground). For example, they recently imposed new humiliating sanctions on Russia, notably by targeting the Wagner Group.

Meanwhile, Russia has almost shut down the supply of gaz to Europe through the Ukraine. See https://www.interfax.ru/business/810346

So it does look like either a "blackmail" to force the West into accepting Nord Stream 2, or, a first step for the preparation of a limited territorial invasion of Ukraine - Or, the official integration of the Donbass Republics with mother Russia, or a South Ossetia scenario of recognised independence?

In any case, the boldness of the gay West might be explained by the fact that they're planning an "Azeri" vicious war, with drones? That'd allow them to not put gay diverse boots on the ground, while still cowardly raining fire on Christian Russians like the Azeri did against our Armenian Christian brothers.
 
Last edited:

Don Quixote

Pelican
Orthodox Inquirer
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-59766810

This is the kind of fake diplomacy that makes me worried. NATO keeps pushing these talks further and further and not wanting to look at proposals while Russia is pushing for diplomatic intervention urgently. It seems like saying, "Oh ok we will have a talk (with no guarantees) at some later date by which point we will have way more weaponry and drones to kill Russian troops in Ukraine."

Meanwhile, most of my friends in Europe are saying that this is "theater," but I remember distinctly warning them about what was coming down the pipeline with Covid and they told me back then I was exaggerating. Now, some of my friends have had to flee their home countries because it is not possible to live without the vaccine! So obviously theater or not, some of this has real impacts.
 

911

Peacock
Gold Member
Weirdly, the (gay and crazy) West seem intent on provoking Russia into a war (a war that the gay diverse Western armies cannot win on the ground). For example, they recently imposed new humiliating sanctions on Russia, notably by targeting the Wagner Group.

Meanwhile, Russia has almost shut down the supply of gaz to Europe through the Ukraine. See https://www.interfax.ru/business/810346

So it does look like either a "blackmail" to force the West into accepting Nord Stream 2, or, a first step for the preparation of a limited territorial invasion of Ukraine - Or, the official integration of the Donbass Republics with mother Russia, or a South Ossetia scenario of recognised independence?

In any case, the boldness of the gay West might be explained by the fact that they're planning an "Azeri" vicious war, with drones? That'd allow them to not put gay diverse boots on the ground, while still cowardly raining fire on Christian Russians like the Azeri did against our Armenian Christian brothers.

Half of NATO leadership today are clueless feminized ideologues who don't have any real notion about what a modern war with Russia would entail, like the new Grüne foreign minister in Germany pictured below, while the other half are conniving neocon warmongers who will not mind sacrificing the Ukraine in a bloody military defeat if it means that they would thereafter reinforce their anti-Russian political position in the West.

9445919970_02a3e7d596_o_1517160418.jpg


The few realist, cooler heads American strategists don't want a war because it would expose NATO weakness ushering the end of the American era, and because casualties would be high, but they have less pull than the other camp.

Given the power vacuum at the top of the American administration, things can spiral out of control. In the past Merkel, warts and all, acted as a stopgap against escalation in the Ukraine, but right now it looks like the inmates are going to be running the asylum in Germany...
 

Don Quixote

Pelican
Orthodox Inquirer
Half of NATO leadership today are clueless feminized ideologues who don't have any real notion about what a modern war with Russia would entail, like the new Grüne foreign minister in Germany pictured below, while the other half are conniving neocon warmongers who will not mind sacrificing the Ukraine in a bloody military defeat if it means that they would thereafter reinforce their anti-Russian political position in the West.

9445919970_02a3e7d596_o_1517160418.jpg


The few realist, cooler heads American strategists don't want a war because it would expose NATO weakness ushering the end of the American era, and because casualties would be high, but they have less pull than the other camp.

Given the power vacuum at the top of the American administration, things can spiral out of control. In the past Merkel, warts and all, acted as a stopgap against escalation in the Ukraine, but right now it looks like the inmates are going to be running the asylum in Germany...
All these people are just getting a script from the upper echelon council on foreign relations people. They sincerely trust in these committees. They never think that perhaps the council is intentionally sabotaging them either.
 

Going strong

Crow
Trad Catholic
Gold Member
Half of NATO leadership today are clueless feminized ideologues who don't have any real notion about what a modern war with Russia would entail, like the new Grüne foreign minister in Germany pictured below, while the other half are conniving neocon warmongers who will not mind sacrificing the Ukraine in a bloody military defeat if it means that they would thereafter reinforce their anti-Russian political position in the West.

9445919970_02a3e7d596_o_1517160418.jpg


The few realist, cooler heads American strategists don't want a war because it would expose NATO weakness ushering the end of the American era, and because casualties would be high, but they have less pull than the other camp.

Given the power vacuum at the top of the American administration, things can spiral out of control. In the past Merkel, warts and all, acted as a stopgap against escalation in the Ukraine, but right now it looks like the inmates are going to be running the asylum in Germany...
I tend to agree with you. But it's now obvious that the West is nagging Russia, harassing Putin, until the Russians start a war in Ukraine. So, why is the gay West feeling so emboldened? They must have been deviously planning something, maybe a ground war strictly using drones, like in Nagorny K recently? Or maybe they know for a fact that the Russian oligarchs, who mostly and sadly have their money in the West, will not let Putin start an open confrontation, whatever the provocations?
 

911

Peacock
Gold Member
^No skin in the game, why do they care if 50,000 Ukrainian soldiers die? The russophobes' political standing would actually be reinforced if Russia invaded and took over eastern Ukraine. They would be able to completely cut off Russia from western/central Europe and they would push the world into a new cold war, which is also great for the MIC.

The Russian oligarchs outside Russia have very little influence over Putin when it comes to a vital national security issue like this one.
 

Don Quixote

Pelican
Orthodox Inquirer
^No skin in the game, why do they care if 50,000 Ukrainian soldiers die? The russophobes' political standing would actually be reinforced if Russia invaded and took over eastern Ukraine. They would be able to completely cut off Russia from western/central Europe and they would push the world into a new cold war, which is also great for the MIC.

The Russian oligarchs outside Russia have very little influence over Putin when it comes to a vital national security issue like this one.
I think this is the answer. They make all this talk about Ukraine sovereignty but couldn't care less about Ukraine, it's just a pawn in the game on a chess board. This move is sacrificing the pawn so they can make bigger moves after. Like you said, cutting Russia off from the West financially and further creating a new Cold War.

What is still confusing me is that Russia has other methods of getting oil to Europe through pipelines across the Black Sea and Turkey which will go to Bulgaria and Serbia. So the Balkans and potentially Central Europe can be fed through these pipelines, totally blocking Germany and Ukraine from even being relevant. So, Russia has many backup options it would seem. The loss of Nordstream 2 in my opinion hurts Russia only temporarily but really hurts Western Europe mostly. It might send the rest of Europe into an angry spiral that causes a backlash against the West and maybe many of these former Soviet Union countries will go back to being closer with Russia?

Maybe this whole talk of cutting Russia off from SWIFT is the real reason they push Russia to take Ukraine now?
 

Going strong

Crow
Trad Catholic
Gold Member
^No skin in the game, why do they care if 50,000 Ukrainian soldiers die? The russophobes' political standing would actually be reinforced if Russia invaded and took over eastern Ukraine. They would be able to completely cut off Russia from western/central Europe and they would push the world into a new cold war, which is also great for the MIC.

The Russian oligarchs outside Russia have very little influence over Putin when it comes to a vital national security issue like this one.

Unfortunately I was not talking of the Russian oligarchs who live outside of Russia... I was talking of most oligarchs from within Russia, who (sadly, as I said above) have most of their fortunes invested in Western countries (think mansions and giga yachts on the Spanish coast, and I won't even mention Biarritz, if you follow my drift). Those oligarchs might live in Russia most of the time, but they have no economic interest in starting an all-out war with the West. Plus, most have their precious daughters "studying" in London Berlin Barcelona or Boston. Those are the oligarchs murmuring in Putin's ears, "don't start no war, tovarich polkovnik".

That's by the way why Putin has been trying, for some years now, to convince these oligarchs to invest in Russia and school their daughters in Russia, not in Cambridge Oxford or some other dumb woke, degenerate Western hellhole of sub-university.
 

911

Peacock
Gold Member
The reputation of top academic institutions in the West is starting to tank as they are now fully embracing Frankfurt School ideology. So is the luster of cities like Paris, London NY etc with all the social and racial problems emerging.

I don't think the opinions of people like Putin, Lavrov and Shoigu are swayed by the domestic oligarchs on vital matters of national security. They have been hesitant to escalate so far out of concern for their own soldiers and the economic well-being of their country. Russia is still recovering from the economic devastation of the 1990s neoliberal dystopia. So the red lines have been set at a very high level, and they will only go to war if those lines are crossed.
 

El Draque

Pelican
Orthodox
Im in Ukraine. My wife has a colleague whose husband is relatively high up in security services here. Her colleague said that pretty much all European embassies have put their staff on a 'be ready to get out"' notice.

Nothing like that was in place in 2014 or 2016 according to her husband, and this feels very different. Not a good sign.
 

Don Quixote

Pelican
Orthodox Inquirer
I think Ukraine is worth more than Nordstream 2 by a long shot. The truth is, unless the United States threatens all out war with Russia, there is not sufficient deterrence against Russia.

The danger here lies in the fact that what Biden says is not what the elites want, per se. In fact, the obscurity of the situation is more dangerous than anything.

If the elites want all-out nuclear war they could have it. There are many potential avenues for a trip-wires or false flags that will motivate NATO to stumble into a hot war scenario against Russia (without Biden even giving authorization). I mean, if you look at Trump's attack on Solemani it was probably similar. I think he really got essentially deceived into that. To think they would even ask Biden before something like this is itself a stretch of the imagination.

The question is not what is best for America or the world, but what the elites want. If you figure that out geopolitically you should be able to guess what they will try to do in Ukraine in the next month. I personally have no idea, perhaps they do want a full on world war at this point to just collapse everything.
 

Handsome Creepy Eel

Owl
Catholic
Gold Member
Even though the success of the anti-Russian and anti-Chinese propaganda in white western countries has been somewhat limited, the mere fact that now a significant part of the normie population believes the massive problems caused by their own degeneracy are the fault of those evil religious Russians or small-eyed Chinese on the other side of the world is yet another confirmation of my thesis that white people deserve to go extinct.

Seriously, how much of an idiot do you have to be to support World War 3 over the reputation of gay sex in Ukraine or Taiwan, in some unknown corner of the world 5,000 miles away that you couldn:t even locate on the map? It's unbelievable.
 

Don Quixote

Pelican
Orthodox Inquirer
I may be missing something here but Nordstream 2 seems to be off the table now even if Russia does not engage Ukraine. So what non-military item does the West have as deterrence, besides removal from SWIFT (which Russia seems capable of handling)? Why would Russia even make a treaty with the United States at this point, something that they admit they couldn't even trust? Russia has basically given the West an ultimatum. Respect its boundaries or it (with China) will create "counter-threats" directly against NATO and the U.S. They said they will essentially strike before the West can even rationalize what the counter-threat is or why it was established.

Within this context, for some reason Russia has removed 10,000 troops from the Ukraine border which the media is calling a "surprise de-escalation." I don't see it as such given that 100k+ troops are there.

It is possible that this is a last warning from Russia to NATO and a message to Washington that Russia is dictating terms now. Europe is completely at the mercy of Russia and Russia and China have become full allies now. This is a disaster for Washington which in my view can't compete with a Russia and China alliance. If there is no hot war between NATO and Russia and Russian oil is not supplied to Europe, I can honestly see the EU breaking apart. We're at a stage where the last chip the West may have is military conflict.
 
Top