Ukraine conflict lounge

bucky

Ostrich
Other Christian
Forget it man many have been take in by the POOOTIN BASED?!? meme.

He’s a globalist lackey as we’ve seen from the corona virus, and the leader, and maybe chief criminal, of a mafia state.

Good example: you will go to jail in Russia for posting anything merely questioning mass Muslim immigration from the caucas states (these people also rape and commit crimes in Russia at a hugely disproportionate rate). You’re not allowed to question the cheap labor source Russian oligarchs are using to undermine the wages of native born people. Just one example.

That said, yes the gay law stuff is great. But Putin himself signalled at the time to the oligarchs the he’s cool with gays. Also, the law was pushed on him by more conservative members of the party.
I speak Russian and have a lot of acquaintances from Russia and elsewhere in the FSU, so I'll throw in my two cents about Putin and whether everyday Russians still like him. I think he was still wildly popular up until a few years ago. Then there was some kind of pension reform law passed that pretty openly benefited him and his oligarch cronies. I don't know the details, but pension are always a big deal in FSU countries, and his approval rating crashed down to somewhere in the 60s at that point, still much higher than any western leader, but the lowest it had ever been. Seems like his approval rating has been in a slow but steady decline since then. Not only because of pensions, but for various other reasons. Some see him as indecisive and too cautious when dealing with the US, some are starting to find it embarrassing that there's been this one guy in charge for so long, and so on.

Thing is, there's no clear alternative to Putin. So, aside from the western liberal-style Russians I know who hate Putin (and I know a weirdly high number of those) most seem to still support him, albeit less enthusiastically than before.

I could be wrong though, as the Russians I know do skew more toward the upper-middle class and university educated, as well as less religious.
 

911

Peacock
Gold Member
Forget it man many have been take in by the POOOTIN BASED?!? meme.

He’s a globalist lackey as we’ve seen from the corona virus, and the leader, and maybe chief criminal, of a mafia state.

Good example: you will go to jail in Russia for posting anything merely questioning mass Muslim immigration from the caucas states (these people also rape and commit crimes in Russia at a hugely disproportionate rate). You’re not allowed to question the cheap labor source Russian oligarchs are using to undermine the wages of native born people. Just one example.

That said, yes the gay law stuff is great. But Putin himself signalled at the time to the oligarchs the he’s cool with gays. Also, the law was pushed on him by more conservative members of the party.

Russia has successfully implemented a vast reindustrialization program, that sector now representing 30% of Russia's GDP, while in countries like France that percentage which used to be similar back in the 1970s is now less than half (about 13% in France), which results in the slow death of the middle class in France and across western Europe. Even Germany is having problems, due to their reckless energy program mismanagement.

So Russia today has a sever labor shortage, which is drawing immigrants from its former Soviet southern states. Russia doesn't have the kind of automatic freebies for illegals that the EU has (or the lenient laws for foreign thugs) but unlike in Europe, they have plenty of jobs.

1641234924769.png

Russia's fertility rate and demography took a huge hit in the 1990s, which resulted in a huge drop of young Russians entering the labor force the last 5-10 years, which means that Russia has had to rely on some foreign labor to maintain its industrial and economic surge. Russia has actually been recruiting aggressively in slavic countries like Belorussia and even the Ukraine for qualified labor.

However, going forward, Russia will rely less on foreign labor as their demography improves, there has been a baby boom that started 20 years ago so you will start seeing more young Russians coming into the workforce year after year:

RUS_SbA1y20210101.png


Russia has just posted a $60 billion budget surplus this year. Contrast with a $6 trillion deficit in the US, or a $700 billion in Canada. Debt is exploding across western countries, as oligarchs are sing the plandemic to turn their middle classes into debt slaves. Countries like France or Italy will become more like Greece, with higher taxes and draconian austerity measures, while Russia is moving in the opposite direction, with a responsible and forward looking economic planning. The difference will be so clear in years to come that even liberal Moscow IT types will notice...
 

El Draque

Pelican
Orthodox
I stand behind my statement, it is completely accurate, feel free to refute any aspects of that post on normie immigrants from Iran.

Stand wherever you like, it is not in any way accurate. That you pretend to know what i think is absurd in itself.
 

Going strong

Crow
Trad Catholic
Gold Member
I speak with russians from all over. They are clients of mine, and nothing like you suggest. Of my regulars, two in Kazan one in Bezaristan (sp), two in moscow. Most work IT jobs. None of them rail or obsess about him, they just see him through their lives, and are sick of all the propaganda, narcissism and corruption

The cognitive bias to Putin on here is so tired. People portray him as they want him to be. Fine, have your hero, whilst sitting in your western countries, watching on from distorted lenses.

Reality for vast majority of Russians that dont just soak up the propaganda is different.

But, it seems you haven't carefully read my post. I said that your Russian business contacts were probably not representative of the "great tough Russian people" as a whole, and now you're admitting that your contacts "mostly work in IT".

Well, yes, that was my point. Snobby Moscovites, or cute, "nerdy-type" IT people working in nice little offices, are not representative of the hardened and smart Russian people as a whole. Thankfully.

Also, if you had read more carefully, you would have noticed that most people here have started criticising Putin for his excessive risk-adverse approach, and the way the West is hitting Russia with little payback from him.
Clearly we don't admire him as much as a few years before, though he remains one of the best leaders on the planet (for what it is worth, nowadays), and does have good results to his name (see 911's post above, about economics and natality).

I might add that, I think you live in Ukraine, so please note that liking Russians and Putin, does not mean one hates Ukraine. I personally like Putin and Russians, but I also like Ukraine and Ukrainians (I had great times in Kyiv and Odessa, and in a couple of small Ukrainian cities), and I wish more people could be able to like both groups of people (one might even say, it's the same group of people). It's Obama's administration that started the Russia/Ukraine divide, not Putin.

To end with, a forum member (Bucky) above said it truthfully : yes, Russians liked (a lot) Putin, at 95%, up to 2/3 years ago, but now this figure is diminishing, one can perceive it. So, we'll see if Putin can massively win all Russian hearts back, the next few months will tell. He has big choices to make, and procrastination would yield nothing good.
 
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El Draque

Pelican
Orthodox
Again i dont know why your caricturing 'nerdy it types' or snobby moscovites into anything. Its spurious and uninformed, and in this instance false. Why do you caricature these things, to suit your views? It's nonsensical and does you a disservice.

I cant be bothered qualifying a simple statement on my clients opinions on their leader, when its evident some on here just dont want to accept that most Russians that are in any way informed, and dont draw their political views exclusively from Russian state tv, broadly see Putin as corrupt, increasingly paranoic figure, who's long overstayed his welcome as ruler. People are sick of him, ultimately.

No one from my associates 'hate' or rail against him. They just roll their eyes and say what a self-serving corrupt dick he is.

Sorry if this is not in keeping with your world view, i'm just reporting what i hear.
 

Don Quixote

Pelican
Orthodox Inquirer
Does anyone know about the massive protests in Kazakhstan over fuel price hikes? Apparently, according to some of my friends, the internet has been shut down and they have no electricity. One of my friends is afraid to go outside and fears being shot by government police. Apparently, according to her, the regime may actually start to use lethal force, and some are wondering if Russia will take northern territories.

edit: https://www.zerohedge.com/energy/kazakhstan-rocked-days-fierce-protests-after-sharp-fuel-price-hike
 
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La Águila Negra

Ostrich
Protestant
Does anyone know about the massive protests in Kazakhstan over fuel price hikes? Apparently, according to some of my friends, the internet has been shut down and they have no electricity. One of my friends is afraid to go outside and fears being shot by government police. Apparently, according to her, the regime may actually start to use lethal force, and some are wondering if Russia will take northern territories.

Too early to tell. Fact that these protests coincide with a more stern Russian position on Ukraine and NATO in general is suspicious, but could be a coincidence too.

If this truly is a regime change operation on the wave of genuine anger it could mean trouble. If it's not it might also be over by tomorrow. The current Kazakh government is like Ukraine pre-Maidan. Old Soviet guard, highly corrupt, aligned to Russia through the CSTO etc but unreliable and playing all sides.

I've been checking out a couple of unofficial Russian TG/Twitter channels. They sound nervous. The Duma has not yet mentioned the motives and possible foreign (read US) actors. Up till now there is no ethnic/religious angle in these protest, but if they continue that could change. The number of Russians in Kazakhstan has decreased drastically since the Fall of the USSR but ~3.5 million still live there (aside from countless other ethnic groups like Tatars, Chechens, Koreans, Ukrainians, Germans etc)

As for the domestic Kazakh situation, it's not good. Country is in a bad economic state and has been suffering from extremely corrupt and poor Soviet-era leadership. This is despite Kazakhstan being a resource-rich country. All the gas is exported abroad and the money is going into the pockets of a select few. Maybe Nazarbayev has finally overplayed their hand, maybe not.

Kazakhstan's internal security apparatus is extremely repressive and violent. Long prison sentences for political opponents of Nazarbayev and his cronies are not uncommon. Islamist hardliners sometimes disappear. Shooting protestors would be the dumbest thing to do now - but many of these old school dictators only know the power of force

The Army has already been mobilized. State of emergency is declared. The government has resigned - but will continue as interim government until Nazarbeyev appoints the next stooge.

Like you I have a couple of Kazakh friends. One guy especially keeps me updated. Tells me everybody is fed up of Nazarbayev and his stooges. The people call Nazarbayev The Pharaoh, because that's how he behaves. Also says that Nazarbayev is an open Freemason who has constructed the new capital Astana in such a way that its rife with occult symbology. Tells me that Nazarbayev is big buddies with Tony Blair and that Covid tyranny in Kazakhstan is on par with Austria or Lithuania.

Intel Slava has the best analysis

 

Don Quixote

Pelican
Orthodox Inquirer
Too early to tell. Fact that these protests coincide with a more stern Russian position on Ukraine and NATO in general is suspicious, but could be a coincidence too.

If this truly is a regime change operation on the wave of genuine anger it could mean trouble. If it's not it might also be over by tomorrow. The current Kazakh government is like Ukraine pre-Maidan. Old Soviet guard, highly corrupt, aligned to Russia through the CSTO etc but unreliable and playing all sides.

I've been checking out a couple of unofficial Russian TG/Twitter channels. They sound nervous. The Duma has not yet mentioned the motives and possible foreign (read US) actors. Up till now there is no ethnic/religious angle in these protest, but if they continue that could change. The number of Russians in Kazakhstan has decreased drastically since the Fall of the USSR but ~3.5 million still live there (aside from countless other ethnic groups like Tatars, Chechens, Koreans, Ukrainians, Germans etc)

As for the domestic Kazakh situation, it's not good. Country is in a bad economic state and has been suffering from extremely corrupt and poor Soviet-era leadership. This is despite Kazakhstan being a resource-rich country. All the gas is exported abroad and the money is going into the pockets of a select few. Maybe Nazarbayev has finally overplayed their hand, maybe not.

Kazakhstan's internal security apparatus is extremely repressive and violent. Long prison sentences for political opponents of Nazarbayev and his cronies are not uncommon. Islamist hardliners sometimes disappear. Shooting protestors would be the dumbest thing to do now - but many of these old school dictators only know the power of force

The Army has already been mobilized. State of emergency is declared. The government has resigned - but will continue as interim government until Nazarbeyev appoints the next stooge.

Like you I have a couple of Kazakh friends. One guy especially keeps me updated. Tells me everybody is fed up of Nazarbayev and his stooges. The people call Nazarbayev The Pharaoh, because that's how he behaves. Also says that Nazarbayev is an open Freemason who has constructed the new capital Astana in such a way that its rife with occult symbology. Tells me that Nazarbayev is big buddies with Tony Blair and that Covid tyranny in Kazakhstan is on par with Austria or Lithuania.

Intel Slava has the best analysis

Biden and Putin are supposed to meet on Jan 10 as well. I think that should clarify a lot of things.
 

La Águila Negra

Ostrich
Protestant
Kazakhstan not good right now. Government buildings stormed around the country, military vehicles/police vehicles on fire. First reports of military/police shooting, some police get beaten up very heavily

The best source for videos and photos is the Telegram channel Intel Slava.

Statements from the Russian Federation.



Warreporter WarGonzo, who allegedly has lots of contacts within the Kremlin, is suspecting foreign involvement

Screenshot_20220105_175955_compress37.jpg
 

Palestrina

 
Banned
Trad Catholic
I think the dispute with Ukraine is largely theatrical. Jewry already in complete control of Ukraine. But even so, symbolically, if Ukraine is taken over, it will make the West look weaker.
 
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