Ukraine lounge

Don Quixote

Ostrich
Orthodox Inquirer
^ True. If you look at the Russian media it is not uncommon to hear Joe Bayden refereed to as being installed in a coup, mentally infirm, illegitimate etc. No matter what your angle, The US and West provides ample fodder via its media to them be amplified into outside populations and fired back into The US.

Just looking at some of the media in Ukraine and Russia. Both of them are calm and say they don't expect anything to happen. There is a bit of subtle trolling about the Westerners fleeing Ukraine and The UK/EU begging for fuel if a war kicks off.
That's what I'm confused about. Why such media extremism talk here in the U.S. if in Ukraine/Russia everything is as normal? The only reason I can come up with is that even if things are calm now, they won't be in the near future because NATO is obviously the aggressor. Media campaign is basically just to lull citizens into this idea that we have no choice because Russia is being mean. They can't outright just say we are invading Russia or Belarus.
 

Going strong

Crow
Orthodox Inquirer
Gold Member
I noticed that you avoided my question about how much time you've spent in Ukraine, so I'm going to guess little to none, and that you speak and understand no Russian or Ukrainian. Many Ukrainians have already fought hard again Russia in the east. The Azov Battalion, the Cyborgs, etc. You seem emotionally unwilling to accept that there is a significant percentage of the population that strongly identifies as Ukrainian and sees the Ukrainian people as entirely separate from the Russians and anything but their "Slavic brothers," but that's how it is. How accurate that is and whether it's good for Ukraine is up for debate, of course, but millions of those people exist, easily enough to fuel an insurgency against Russia if the Russians choose to move too far into Ukraine. Too far in my opinion would be anywhere further west than Donbas, and I base that opinion on my having lived there and being able to read what people say in their own language.

You're out of luck, I've actually met several forum members in Ukraine, who obviously saw me speak Russian, quite fluently I'm proud to say.

As to Ukrainian language, why would I speak it specifically, as it's basically Russian?

It's like Catalan communists asking me if I speak Catalan, but why would I need to, as I speak Spanish, it's the same.

OK, if you want to be more specific, Ukrainian is not 100% Russian, it's Russian with a lot of Blyiat' and some Udatchi. But mostly Blyiat's.

You might also note that I was writing threads here on Crimea when it was under de facto Ukrainian rule, so, I know these parts of the world, indeed. Have been travelling to Ukraine and Crimea for many years, though not in the past few years, granted.

So from my knowing of Ukrainians, I maintain that they are 98% like their Russian brothers. And 99% like their non-Moscuvite Russian brothers.

I also maintain that the young Ukrainians from Kyiv, with fitting jeans, would not fight in the Donbass even though they fill their hipster mouths with grand words about war.

And I also maintain that 100% of the Ukrainian men I have known, would obviously sell the weaponry given to them by the Brits, on the Black market, instead of shooting these missiles at Russian tanks and subsequently getting killed.

But why argue, let's just wait. If Russians do "invade", we'll see how many Brave Young Ukrainian Fighters will leave their comfy apartments in Kyiv and go to the Donbass. You'll be surprised, as the answer will be, None.

You know who are the few Ukrainians that actually enlisted? The desperate, destroyed ones. The homeless, jobless, sickly and drunkards, and all of them over 35. If you know Ukraine as well as you're saying, you know it's true. It's not even a Ukrainian thing, it's a generational thing.

Last year for example, who do you think enlisted in the Armenian army when the Azeri launched their attacks? The old dudes, the 50 years old ones with no house no job no car. The young Fierce Patriots remained at home with Netflix and their girlfriends. So, if war starts in Ukraine (or anywhere), expect the same.
 

911

Peacock
Catholic
Gold Member
Oh snap.
Wouldn't that be a crazy outcome.

The moment Russia seizes the Ukraine; cause neither Biden nor NATO will do anything expect cluck their tongues.

China seizes Taiwan... :alien:

China Launches Biggest Raid On Taiwanese Airspace Since October As CCP's Pacific Perimeter Expands

teaser image
The situation in Ukraine isn't the only geopolitical risk on investors' minds this morning...

"Taiwanese airspace" is a pretty deceptive designation, they make it sound like they are buzzing downtown Taipei. This type of reporting usually found in the MSM doesn't often creep into alternative outlets like Zerohedge...
 

Going strong

Crow
Orthodox Inquirer
Gold Member
Chatting to a client of mine the other day, who was in the Russian army, he thinks the Russian capability is pretty weak, beyond its specialist units. 80% of it are conscripts, as he was. Spent 1 year as a driver, only other training received was to strip and fire a Kalishnikov, which he says in the whole time, spent about an hour firing. He describes conscripts as unmotivated and badly trained.

He also recounted how the the Chechyn warlord, and former Big Bad Wolf to Russian media, Shamil Basiyev, was hired by Azeris to take the fight to the Armenians in the early to mid 90s. They got banged the hell out by militias with 1970s kit, their farms and villages at their backs, and fighting to stop a pack of Turks and their Muslim mercenaries from gang-raping their sisters.

The same Basiyev went through Russian conscripts like a hot knife to butter. His point being that a motivated, defensive force will always outperform conscripts who've barely had anything beyond basic training.

This may well be an antiquated view, with the high-tech nature of modern warfare, but still.

I dont think the Ukraine would put up any kind of remotely similar response to that of Armenians or Chechyns either.

Frankly most people would (IMHO foolishly) indifferent to being absorbed in Russian Federation. This as much to do with the rank corruption in Ukrainian politics, inefficiency in basic civic competency of govt, and cultural low self esteem, than any ethnic bond IMHO.

Re Basiyev in Armenia.

It’s well known that one of the leaders of Chechen gunmen Shamil Basayev fought in Abkhazia, but only a few know about his participation in the military operations against Armenians. It’s due to Basayev’s own merit who has nothing to be "proud of”. In 1996, Head of the NKR Defense Army Headquarters, Lieutenant General Anatoly Zinevich, who had gone through Afghanistan, told us the following:

''In 1993, Basayev was fighting here, at Aghdam. If we knew at that time that he would play such a tragic role in the Russian history we wouldn't care a straw about all those corridors and would bring down fire on his group''. (During the operation at Aghdam, the Armenian units left the corridor for peaceful inhabitants, which was used by military servicemen including Chechens).

Anatoly Zinevich spoke about Basayev with contempt he could hardly disguise: ''The radio intercepts of his negotiations during which he just begged to send him reinforcements were at my disposal then. Afterwards, Basayev admitted that it was not reasonable to fight in Karabakh as Azerbaijanis couldn’t fight at all and Armenians were unconquerable”.

In 2000, Basayev himself admitted in his interview to Azerbaijani ANS TV Company that he had taken part in the Karabakh war: “We came to Karabakh to fight not for war trophies but for the sake of the idea of Jihad”. However, as Basayev says, “when we arrived in the spot and saw the situation we understood that there were no any signs of Jihad there”.

He said that there were very few high-ranking commanders in the Azerbaijani army he could “trust”. Besides, Basayev stated that “Armenians were better prepared for the war”. Shamil Basayev said that the fall at Shushi was conditioned by the lack of necessary discipline and ineffective leadership of the Azerbaijani troops.

According to him, “Shushi could be held by 100 armed people during a year”. Basayev said that due to the reasons mentioned above in the first place, he made a decision in 1993 to withdraw the Chechen troops under his control from Kharabak

Your post has valuable data in it, notably on History, thanks for posting it.

One remark about training though. You're saying that Russian conscripts have just training in stripping the Kalash, "plus, firing it one hour".

But, it's not bad, it's sufficient.
Firing a Kalash or other assault rifle for one hour is the only training you'll need. It's not rocket science. One hour of firing, it's many bullets, and it's enough. Assault rifles are not really difficult to fire, a normal man learns enough of it during one hour.

In any case, I remain convinced that any Russian "conscript" with a Kalash and one hour of training, and a good amount of ammo, would be a very serious opponent on a field. Matter of fact, I would not even like to face a Russian dude who's armed with a knife, so, with an assault rifle, even less so.

Hahaha you funny amigo, actual I train wrestle for takedown but not specific judo. Judo much different stance, more straight up, wrestle we crouch and also not use gi. Both very good but differ. Then ground jiujitsu. Also I Orthodox inquire right now and official religion catholic still but I speak with ortho priest for future possible conversion. Military men come to combat school very common, happen all time, usually military man, police, security, sometime unfortunate bad people who want leart fight to hurt.

Nice try, brother, but I remain quite persuaded that you're Vladimir Vladimirovich himself, testing the waters here, and getting his new judo videos ready for international release :)

By the way, isn't "ground ju jitsu" basically just judo? I'm quite sure that all the techniques of "ground ju jitsu", are judo moves..?
 
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911

Peacock
Catholic
Gold Member
^Ground randori in judo is different. In judo, you seek to control and dominate your opponent with grips and body positioning, sort of like in regular wrestling, whereas in juijitsu it's a bit nastier, you get into combinations and grips where you will break opponents' limbs, joints or strangle them. Also like our friend "Vladimiros Putinez" mentioned above BJJ is done without the thick cotton gis so it's harder to grasp your opponent through their clothes. There is a bit of overlap given that they're both japanese martial arts, but BJJ is kind of nastier, being a product of modern Brazilian third world fighting culture.
 

OrthoMexicano

 
Banned
Orthodox Inquirer
Nice try, brother, but I remain quite persuaded that you're Vladimir Vladimirovich himself, testing the waters here, and getting his new judo videos ready for international release :)

By the way, isn't "ground ju jitsu" basically just judo? I'm quite sure that all the techniques of "ground ju jitsu", are judo moves..?

There is overlap in moves but fight style very different amigo. Usual in Judo once you throw opponent you have only 15 20 second to apply submission then referee stand you up. In brasileño ground jiujitsu fight go on for many minutes on ground. For reason judo emphasize stand up throw and jiujitsu brasileño focus on submit from ground. Both grapple ability and many move bjj take from judo, but over year many refineground technique where bjj person much more skill ON GROUND ONLY. Judo more skill in STANDUP THROW! Still negative in all art, like in case mine bjj not many leg lock but sambo many leg lock, russian slap on strong leg lock to make tap. Now bjj learn to attack leg too, with many heel hook inside outside variation.

in us military they do basic bjj call COMBATIVES, but like say it very basic if person only do that they wipe on mat by most blue belt and total destroy tap many times in 5 min round purple or above belt. But Russian soldier seem know good judo sambo too.
 

Going strong

Crow
Orthodox Inquirer
Gold Member
^It reads like you're giving detailed instructions for a complex military invasion, using code words taken from martial arts.

For example, "sambo many leg lock, russian slap on strong leg lock to make tap", obviously mean you're ordering the Russian army to position on several fronts, but to do just one blitz attack on the Ukrainian stronghold (Kharkov?), so that Ukrainians will have to quickly capitulate.

So it's Crimea all over, Putin has found new ingenious ways to communicate his operational orders to his armies. Western spying devices can intercept nothing of value.

Well, if I might also go back to the matter of the "Russian conscripts", I think that in any case, the Russians currently stationed near the borders with Ukraine, are professional soldiers, called, I think, kontraktniki. Those are likely to have practiced "more than one hour" with firearms.
 
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Pointy Elbows

Kingfisher
Orthodox


It sounds like the US already has some civilian contractor ninja types (aka mercenary) on the ground in Ukraine, from previous reporting here. We know that the US and some NATO countries are sending anti tank weaponry. I suspect high likelihood that the stories of US special operations forces on ground in Donbas are true.

Now, the 82d Airborne Division will be sending troops to an unspecified eastern European country.

Having the 82d "in theater" affords a "forced entry" option in the event our deluded leaders see fit to such a use. Likely, they will be camped out at an airbase, with plentiful USAF resources on standby, in a nearby country to Ukraine (Poland, Romania, Bulgaria?). The 82d is not a special ops force unit, but it is unique in that they regularly train to seize an airfield, allowing for follow on logistical and force buildup.

It seems clear we won't get a sea port. Overland supply routes are unlikely given the distance from friendly places to the eastern UA front. If we are to have a presence, it will necessitate an airfileld.

The ratchet strap continues to tighten, one notch at a time.
 

bucky

Hummingbird
Other Christian
You're out of luck, I've actually met several forum members in Ukraine, who obviously saw me speak Russian, quite fluently I'm proud to say.

As to Ukrainian language, why would I speak it specifically, as it's basically Russian?

It's like Catalan communists asking me if I speak Catalan, but why would I need to, as I speak Spanish, it's the same.

OK, if you want to be more specific, Ukrainian is not 100% Russian, it's Russian with a lot of Blyiat' and some Udatchi. But mostly Blyiat's.

You might also note that I was writing threads here on Crimea when it was under de facto Ukrainian rule, so, I know these parts of the world, indeed. Have been travelling to Ukraine and Crimea for many years, though not in the past few years, granted.

So from my knowing of Ukrainians, I maintain that they are 98% like their Russian brothers. And 99% like their non-Moscuvite Russian brothers.

I also maintain that the young Ukrainians from Kyiv, with fitting jeans, would not fight in the Donbass even though they fill their hipster mouths with grand words about war.

And I also maintain that 100% of the Ukrainian men I have known, would obviously sell the weaponry given to them by the Brits, on the Black market, instead of shooting these missiles at Russian tanks and subsequently getting killed.

But why argue, let's just wait. If Russians do "invade", we'll see how many Brave Young Ukrainian Fighters will leave their comfy apartments in Kyiv and go to the Donbass. You'll be surprised, as the answer will be, None.

You know who are the few Ukrainians that actually enlisted? The desperate, destroyed ones. The homeless, jobless, sickly and drunkards, and all of them over 35. If you know Ukraine as well as you're saying, you know it's true. It's not even a Ukrainian thing, it's a generational thing.

Last year for example, who do you think enlisted in the Armenian army when the Azeri launched their attacks? The old dudes, the 50 years old ones with no house no job no car. The young Fierce Patriots remained at home with Netflix and their girlfriends. So, if war starts in Ukraine (or anywhere), expect the same.
Fair enough. Not what I saw when I lived there, but you've been there more recently. I think it's a moot point anyway. I really don't see the Russians moving into Donbas openly, let alone any further west.
 

just a human

 
Banned
Atheist
For those who don't know much about real situation and sentiments inside Russia, this maybe will give you some insight.
Watch with English subtitles ( auto generated, but you'll get the idea).
Person on the left - Strelkov - Russian nationalist, monarchist, who was leader of separatists in Eastern Ukraine. Wanted by international tribunal for war crimes. Highly respected between many extremists in Russia. And not a big fan of Putin. He says at some point- Russia is ruled by mafia for 20 years...
On the right - blogger, commentator, pro communist, I don't know he's exact name, but you can find him easily on YouTube.
Talking about possible war with Ukraine.
 
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budoslavic

Eagle
Orthodox
Gold Member
Another slip of the tongue there from the ZOG at :41 - "to support our Eastern Flank countries."

Shouldn't that be our allies, not our countries??

They are admitting that NATO is really just an empire (USA) and their vassal states (er countries).

So many truths...

FJ6mXjuXEAY_sE9
 

Going strong

Crow
Orthodox Inquirer
Gold Member
Quite nice to see Strelkov back on a media channel, I didn't know he was still active in politics/war.

A few comments. The automatic translation offering "Hungarian", is of course, "Georgian". Just as Saboteurs are in fact Agents of Diversion (in the French military meaning, Diversion being more comprehensive that Sabotage).

But the answer that alias Strelkov doesn't get, it's the one to "Then what?".

Then a new president is installed in Kyiv, that's the "then what".
 

Don Quixote

Ostrich
Orthodox Inquirer
"We're mindful of things that the Russians could do that would potentially give us indications of some sort of imminent incursion," spokesman John Kirby said. "We're not there yet but we're watching for those indicators very closely."

So in other words, Russia won't invade until we have all our ducks in a row – then we will give the signal and set off unspecified chain of events that lead to war.
 

Sabonis73

Robin
Catholic
I haven't taken this situation seriously for the past couple days. Everyone's relaxed except for the US and UK. The Russians and the Ukrainians are looking at us like madmen preparing to light ourselves on fire. The Germans and the French are conducting negotiations without us. I cant wait for the political theatrics to stop. I hope this is the NeoLibs final act.

 

Don Quixote

Ostrich
Orthodox Inquirer
For those who don't know much about real situation and sentiments inside Russia, this maybe will give you some insight.
Watch with English subtitles ( auto generated, but you'll get the idea).
Person on the left - Strelkov - Russian nationalist, monarchist, who was leader of separatists in Eastern Ukraine. Wanted by international tribunal for war crimes. Highly respected between many extremists in Russia. And not a big fan of Putin. He says at some point- Russia is ruled by mafia for 20 years...
On the right - blogger, commentator, pro communist, I don't know he's exact name, but you can find him easily on YouTube.
Talking about possible war with Ukraine.

Somewhat hard to understand what was being said. It sounds like Russia is in a stalemate in this situation, it's a lose-lose situation for them, unless they can do something that is really out of left field, like put missiles in Cuba or Venezuela or maybe China takes Taiwan all the sudden?
 

Pointy Elbows

Kingfisher
Orthodox
I haven't taken this situation seriously for the past couple days. Everyone's relaxed except for the US and UK. The Russians and the Ukrainians are looking at us like madmen preparing to light ourselves on fire. The Germans and the French are conducting negotiations without us. I cant wait for the political theatrics to stop. I hope this is the NeoLibs final act.


I joke to myself that the coming US incursion in Ukraine will be operated by fat trannies in an air-conditioned van at Nellis Air Force Base, Nevada. They will conduct remote control drone warfare, kill some Russkies, get some ridiculous medals, and take a promotion.

Can't say that your version is wrong, though. These two scenarios are in close competition.
 
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