Ukraine lounge

Bad Hussar

Pelican
Haven't been following the Ukraine threads till now. Has anyone discussed the possible involvement of George Soros and his foundations? Obviously they have been active in ex-Soviet and Soviet block countries over the years, including the installation of a previous Ukrainian Prime Minister, the blonde chick. I really don't know what their interests are, but maybe other members can enlighten me.

Who wrote John Kerry's "19th century" speech? And how could he keep a straight face when delivering it? I foresee rappers and other musicians sampling that speech just like they did "Comical Ali's" after the invasion of Iraq. It's pretty much at the same level of ridiculousness. Kerry must think people are very, very stupid indeed.
 
soup said:
Hencredible.. this isn't about keeping pussy pure, it's about money.

To the governments involved and big business, sure.

But to the guys on the forum, I think it's about pussy primarily.

I don't think there'd be this level of engagement if Ukraine wasn't a place with high quality women.
 

ASOT

Sparrow
Gold Member
Bad Hussar said:
Haven't been following the Ukraine threads till now. Has anyone discussed the possible involvement of George Soros and his foundations? Obviously they have been active in ex-Soviet and Soviet block countries over the years, including the installation of a previous Ukrainian Prime Minister, the blonde chick. I really don't know what their interests are, but maybe other members can enlighten me.

Who wrote John Kerry's "19th century" speech? And how could he keep a straight face when delivering it? I foresee rappers and other musicians sampling that speech just like they did "Comical Ali's" after the invasion of Iraq. It's pretty much at the same level of ridiculousness. Kerry must think people are very, very stupid indeed.

Hear from the satanic man himself about his views and actions in Ukraine:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-02-26/george-soros-sustaining-ukraines-breakthrough

WND - pretty garden variety coverage of the Soros factor. Mention a total of $100 million poured into Ukraine 'NGOs' by Soros:
http://www.wnd.com/2014/03/soros-heavily-invested-in-ukraine-crisis/

Infowars - quotes 'Aleksandr Yefremov' who suggest Soros is funding training of armed revolutionaries as in Libya:
http://www.infowars.com/soros-funded-libyan-scenario-now-unfolding-in-ukraine/



On a macro level it's a genius scheme that Soros and his ilk has enacted.
1. Fund dissent in anywhere that poses a threat to the US or that can be used as a splinter under the nail of a threat.
2. Bring that dissent to a boiling point when needed.
3. Wait for the predictable reactions of the incumbent governments/kings/dictators.
4. Create a load of bull shit called the 'doctrine to protect' that billions of liberals will mindlessly embrace.
5. Totally co-opt the media into pushing this doctrine. Even American RT hosts will be infected by it.
6. By now the unrest is so strong point 4 has created a pretext to invade, or they can simply sit back and fan it from the sidelines as in Syria.

Even as far back as the Gulf War this was the game plan. But now they've refined it so much they needn't even create a perceived threat against the US to win support amongst Americans for whatever the latest expedition is. Just start up the Two Minutes Hate (e.g. anti Russian gay rights b.s., poor Sochi coverage) and you're good to go.
 

jimukr104

Ostrich
Hencredible Casanova said:
soup said:
Hencredible.. this isn't about keeping pussy pure, it's about money.

To the governments involved and big business, sure.

But to the guys on the forum, I think it's about pussy primarily.

I don't think there'd be this level of engagement if Ukraine wasn't a place with high quality women.
Well I don't want my flat in Odessa to become a scene from Stalingrad.
Yes if Ukraine goes west..its the end of Pussy paradise in Europe. Russia might even make it harder to get visas.
 

Blunt

Kingfisher
Gold Member
The hypocrisy of the State Department is really shocking.

John Kerry quoted as saying "Crimea is Ukraine" in Rome. It is subtle, but he just adopted the line from "Kosovo is Serbia" (Kosovo je Serbia) which is chanted at football games by supporters of Serbia across Europe.

It isn't surprising that they are being hypocritical on this issue but choosing those words is essentially a taunt.

Or I'm just :tinfoilhat:
 

Tex Pro

Ostrich
Gold Member
Blunt said:
The hypocrisy of the State Department is really shocking.

John Kerry quoted as saying "Crimea is Ukraine" in Rome. It is subtle, but he just adopted the line from "Kosovo is Serbia" (Kosovo je Serbia) which is chanted at football games by supporters of Serbia across Europe.

It isn't surprising that they are being hypocritical on this issue but choosing those words is essentially a taunt.

Or I'm just :tinfoilhat:

Kerry is a buffoon. I wouldn't read too much into what he says.
 
jimukr104 said:
Hencredible Casanova said:
Kosko - Syria is not a pussy paradise (Muslim country). This is a game forum. How this power struggle affects the behavior of women that live in one of the last European holdouts from significant western influence is the primary concern IMO.

Agreed..and this conflict and its WW3 possibilities affects multiple Pussy paradises like Russia, Poland, Romania, etc. Who knows might be a lot of lonely women in these countries after this Apocalypse!


Poland and Romania are already done. They are pro-western and pro-American societies (both being NATO and EU member states). According to Roosh and others, there are already signs of degradation among women in parts of these countries (at least in Poland), so the cancer is already present as far as how women take care of themselves.

Interestingly, being an American is mini-celebrity status - or at least looked well upon - in many parts of the world, including this one.

Don't hold your breath on Ukraine.

jimukr104 said:
Hencredible Casanova said:
soup said:
Hencredible.. this isn't about keeping pussy pure, it's about money.

To the governments involved and big business, sure.

But to the guys on the forum, I think it's about pussy primarily.

I don't think there'd be this level of engagement if Ukraine wasn't a place with high quality women.
Well I don't want my flat in Odessa to become a scene from Stalingrad.
Yes if Ukraine goes west..its the end of Pussy paradise in Europe. Russia might even make it harder to get visas.

Well, the fact that you have financial interests at stake in Ukraine, and being married to an FSU gal, your treasonist posts somewhat make sense haha. I think you're the exception rather than the rule among Russophiles on this forum. That's why I repped you the other day.

Just don't let your deep biases cloud objectivity my friend.

If you look at the the situation from a western pov, Russia is done. Look at the arc of modern Russian history and it's easy to tell.

Outside of the energy sector, Russia is in a much weaker geopolitical position - by every metric - as a successor state to the USSR, not just to the US but even within its own region.

There are many Americans alive today who vividly remember participating in "bomb drills" while in grade school out of fear of the Soviet nuclear threat, especially during the Cuban Missile Crisis.

At the time, the USSR was a fundamental threat to the American way of life - a place that has historically emphasized the primacy of the individual over the interests of the state.

The Soviet model being widely exported among societies throughout Europe, Africa, Asia, and even the Americas (Cuba, and even Chile before a successful CIA coup ousted its Communist leader) was simply unacceptable if the US wanted to maintain its status as a cultural, military and economic world leader.

Think of how far we have come since those times. Today, anywhere Russia looks in its neighborhood there is the projection of American power. Only weak states like Belarus (which is popularly referred to as "Europe's last dictatorship") and Armenia (which has long held Russian bases on its soil to protect itself from its arch-enemy and regionally powerful neighbor, Turkey) are completely within Russia's control and influence.

Russia has fallen so hard that even its invasion of a territory where it holds military bases, was historically Russian territory, and where the majority of people are ethnically Russian and support being part of Russia is an international issue that calls for the strongest punishment and which Russia has to be careful in treading.

That is quite a distance!

It's also hard to tell what Putin's end game is. Sanctions could prove crippling to Russia's economy, especially if our Euro partners get on board, turning Russians (both ordinary people and oligarchs) against Putin.

If Crimea joins Russia, then Ukraine is free to join the EU (which requires that there are no territorial disputes between two sovereign nations, which is why Georgia is unable to join - Russia's occupation of South Ossetia and Abkhazia) and NATO.

More problems on Russia's doorstep and a Ukraine that so far seems more than willing to join the West, evidenced by the billions of dollars in loan packages being assembled by the EU, US, and IMF.

I think if we're being honest we have to accept that Ukraine is going the direction of Poland and Romania by and large. It's not a matter of if, but when and how. Just giving the real deal Holyfield so that you don't get taken by surprise.

Vicious said:
As predicted the Russian economy is taking a heavy hit.

The growth was already panning out since a few years back. Consumer confidence is shot. Even China is backing off, general capital flight is under way.

The most damaging aspect though is a continued brain drain. The country has problems holding onto its best and brightest.


Absolutely. Though Russians have pride in their high culture (i.e. literature, performing arts, etc) the most anti-Russian (government) people I have met are none other than Russian immigrants and Russian-Americans.

That's another metric by which Americans can say they won the Cold War and are continuing to win against Russia, not just among ordinary Russians but among oligarchs as well (who live and raise their families in the West).

:american:
 

Blunt

Kingfisher
Gold Member
@Hencredible Russia's influence before Ukraine was experiencing a slight bump after bailing Obama out in Syria and helping to negotiate with Iran.

This crisis could certainly reverse any gains made by Putin recently. Even though this crisis was instigated by EU meddling, no former FSU countries will look kindly upon the annexation of Crimea, which is why Putin's administration itself is denying that as a possibility. Even Belarus fears that their ethnic Russians could be used against them.

As a cold war history enthusiast yourself, you know that Krushchev's number one priority was exaggerating the strength of the Soviet forces by refusing the Open Skies agreement or any kind of agreement for robust neutral observers. They leveraged British and French fears against the Americans and jumped on any opportunities to declare their superiority (Sputnik).

In reality they were always weaker than the US, despite managing to close the gap at times.

Even their influence among Communist allies in the third world was only good if the money was flowing. Nasser and others played both sides to get the better deal.

My point being that their power was exaggerated to begin with so any decline at this point is more of a correction in international perception.
 
Totally agree, Blunt. Putin's move is increasingly looking strange. "Drunk on Sochi" as Khrushchev's granddaughter said in that Nat Geo interview I shared.

His previous gains on the diplomatic front, Snowden, and others had done a lot for Russia's perception on the world stage - and even won many admirers in the West. Those were very intelligent decisions.

But using force to invade Crimea with no internationally justifiable pretext (Crimean lives weren't ever at risk and Crimea does belong to Ukraine regardless of what people there think) is a whole different ballgame.

He's really overplaying his hand at a time when he doesn't even need to (his power and influence was not at risk).

He would have been better off exerting Russian influence behind the scenes - which could have met his goals just as effectively - just as the US had doing for the pro-west Ukrainians.
 

Icarus

Ostrich
Hencredible Casanova said:
But using force to invade Crimea with no internationally justifiable pretext

Just because we don't understand Putin's rationale, it does not mean he's irrational.

My hypothesis: Putin occupied Crimea to play the role of the "mad man", to demonstrate that he is capable of and willing to use military force against Ukraine, which makes it impossible for Ukraine to join NATO.
 

Blunt

Kingfisher
Gold Member
Yeah this may be just a bargaining ploy.

Like "look they want to be part of Russia but we respect the territorial integrity of Ukraine so we will settle for a federated government system throughout Ukraine and a recommitment to our Black Sea base".
 
Icarus said:
Hencredible Casanova said:
But using force to invade Crimea with no internationally justifiable pretext

Just because we don't understand Putin's rationale, it does not mean he's irrational.

My hypothesis: Putin occupied Crimea to play the role of the "mad man", to demonstrate that he is capable of and willing to use military force against Ukraine, which makes it impossible for Ukraine to join NATO.


I was talking about international law when I said "no internationally justifiable pretext;" as in, the invasion of Crimea was a violation of Ukraine's sovereignty.

I know there's a double standard with respect to previous US behavior but that is a fait accompli within the international order, not a green light for other nations to do the same on their own volition.
 

Orion

Kingfisher
Gold Member
Hencredible Casanova said:
But using force to invade Crimea with no internationally justifiable pretext (Crimean lives weren't ever at risk and Crimea does belong to Ukraine regardless of what people there think) is a whole different ballgame.

It's hard for great powers to find pretext for everything. However, leader of executive office of a great power has his hands tied by obligation to do whatever is necessary to ensure safety and independence of his own state.

That task is far easier for Obama and Cameron than for Putin. Sometimes there is no other option but to lose popularity.

He's really overplaying his hand at a time when he doesn't even need to (his power and influence was not at risk).

He would have been better off exerting Russian influence behind the scenes - which could have met his goals just as effectively - just as the US had doing for the pro-west Ukrainians.

Yes but what happens when foreign power tries to penetrate your nuclear triad mechanisms (intercepting your strategic bombers patrols, raising missile shields, penetrating North Pole bastion etc...). Or when foreign power is reducing your strategic depth.

As a civilian it is easy for me to judge a nation's leader. But if i was Putin, I'd probably have no other choice but to do the same. Maintaining maximum defensive capabilities is not something that can be debated over.

Ultimately, it is easy for US and EU to play soft power. That is a privilege, not an option, and people must finally understand that. If it was that easy, everybody would be doing it.
 

jimukr104

Ostrich
Icarus said:
Hencredible Casanova said:
But using force to invade Crimea with no internationally justifiable pretext

Just because we don't understand Putin's rationale, it does not mean he's irrational.

My hypothesis: Putin occupied Crimea to play the role of the "mad man", to demonstrate that he is capable of and willing to use military force against Ukraine, which makes it impossible for Ukraine to join NATO.
Remember his real excuse is the importance of doing this for his national defense.
All these war pretexts are only half truths. Regardless of its because of unfounded WMD, Kids taking Russian language 101, Bush"he shot my daddy", or a litter of fucking kittens.

For those who say we are biased..well regardless Russia has the same right as any world power to do what it is doing.
In history world powers do this type of shit including the USA. Hypocrisy and double standards maybe?

It should also be reminded we started this shit.Because we have bought off more allies doesn't make it right. USA and Israel numerous times have been voted by the U.N. as breaking international law..what sanctions?

I don't know Putin's agenda, after all I am 6 ft tall, but I do know that if everyone in his Duma approved(including the Jews) it must be considered damn important.
How it will end..I don't know!

But knowing that the Russians inherently don't believe in the concept of mutually assured destruction(M.A.D.) and do believe in the concept of "burning the village to save it" means they CERTAINLY AND ABSOLUTELY will take this much further than our leaders want it to go.
If they see this as the beginning of the end of their civilization (as Hen pointed out lol)than ALL BETS ARE OFF.
Just remember battlefield tactical nukes is well documented to be part of Red Army doctrine. In that case 1 tugboat has greater firepower than the whole U.S. fleet.Perfect time for China to grab Taiwan maybe?
 

RexImperator

Crow
Gold Member
This image has been going around on twitter
KoEj8GJ.png
 

jimukr104

Ostrich
""Belarus fears that their ethnic Russians could be used against them"

Link that one please. The Dictator of Belarus use to bother Moscow about joining Russia and reforming the U.S.S.R.
I think countries like Uzbekistan are more scared since they discriminate against ethnic Slavs.
On the Brighton beach Radio they were joking around saying that Putin might invade Brooklyn .
01-the-russian-bear-02


Putins plan:




Russia's secret weapon:
 

Attachments

  • russian-bears-on-the-attack1.jpg
    russian-bears-on-the-attack1.jpg
    165 KB · Views: 1,312
Russia isn't a world power, it simply has the tone of one thanks to the image and decisions of its leader - an ex-KGB relic of the Cold War. Most political scientists consider Russia an emerging or re-emerging power, not even a potential superpower. Russia lost much of its potential power as a result of the collapse of the Soviet Union. Even India and China are more likely to be potential superpowers than Russia.

Russia's only vibrant sector is energy, which is a commodity-based market, ensuring Russia will remain a slave to market forces.

That's why sanctions would really bite.

Just as Russia has leverages on Ukraine, the US/EU has leverages on Russia. Should the US lift the ban on its oil exports, helping meet European needs, then Russia is further marginalized.

That's why Putin's move seems crazy to me. Russia still has to work with the West on a whole host of issues. The West can afford reckless foreign misadventures and bounce back, but Russia doesn't have it like that, even in its own neighborhood.

All I can say is Putin is certainly a Russian nationalist. He considered the collapse of the Soviet Union a "personal humiliation" according to his memoir.

http://www.businessweek.com/article...ions-u-dot-s-dot-russia-face-off-over-ukraine

Perhaps he's looking to strengthen his nation's hand - and righting what he sees as a historical wrong simultaneously (Crimea) - in the inevitable future negotiations that sees a dominant US/EU/NATO on its doorstep and the need for closer integration economically (even if Russians aren't European).

Russia is obviously a politically weak country internally. Any nation that depends on a single leader to keep it stable - Putin has ruled since 1999 (Medvedev is a puppet) - is by definition at risk of instability.
 
Top