Using Christ to overcome the sexual past of a potential wife

Rush87

Hummingbird
As a man growing up in the 21st century, one of the bitter pills to swallow is that women have been led astray by society, and as men we have too.

While we aren't without sin, it is such a tough burden to bear when we're inevitably forced to deal with the sexual past of a woman we care about.

For years this forum has advocated the red flags to look out for in a woman, and I'm not creating this thread to debate them.

This thread is intended to help those men who have found a women with a good moral compass. A woman who, in a another time, in another place would have remained chaste, were it not for the nature of the society we live in.

I'm creating this thread as a support resource of Christian wisdom to help men with the sin of Pride and show that if you've found a woman with a good heart, one who has repented, that you shouldn't simply discard her.

I'll start by addressing Pride with an example which has helped me.

Specifically, your partner with a sexual past may understand grace now far better than you do (Philippians 2:3). Jesus says, “Her sins, which are many, have been forgiven, for she loved much; but he who is forgiven little, loves little” (Luke 7:47).

To marry someone with a past isn't “settling,” but could be a great gift. Think how infuriating it must be for Satan. What he meant for evil — to harm or demoralize us — God often means for our good (Genesis 50:20).

Be self reflective and root out self-righteousness so that you’re not blind to see that God may be giving you a partner who is gracious enough to put up with you, because they have received grace. “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God” (Matthew 5:8). Amen, and those who were once impure in heart are sometimes blessed with a vision of God that allows them to boast in God more than all (2 Corinthians 12:1).

The devil prays upon us through the various sins we fall for. If we cannot forgive, we'll forever be a prisoner of our minds. This isn't to say we forget red flags and wisdom, but it is to say, don't hastily discard a women for her sins, when we are just as guilty. Falling to pride is the devil at work. Your life without love is his prize.
 
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big poppa

Kingfisher
Gold Member
This is a very timely thread for me and I'm looking forward to reading the input of others in perhaps similar situations.

I recently started seeing someone with a lot of really wonderful qualities. Nurturing, loving, happy, young, attractive. As you describe, the kind of girl that would have been a chaste, loving wife and mother 50 years ago. Unfortunately she was led astray by our culture, just as I was. Her past sexual immorality plays around in my head a bit despite me making plenty of mistakes myself.

She met me almost at the height of her immorality, while I was almost fully out the other side. Since then she has committed to me and has told me she wants to spend her life with me.

I am torn. I almost cant imagine my life without her, despite her having 'red flags' that would normally be an instant write off for me as a potential wife (As examples - solo trips overseas, couchsurfing, one night stands, cheated on her past long term boyfriend.. I have no idea what her 'notch count' is but it could very easily be 20+). Is the devil fooling me into choosing a bad fit for my wife, or is God giving me a chance to bring her with me down the path that leads closer to him? The devil had her firmly in his grasp, but with the help of God I feel like I have given her a complete mind shift, and she now desires that which is better for her. Is it possible God led her to me, knowing that I could help her spiritually? Or am I fooling myself simply because I find her very beautiful?

I'm trying to figure all of this out and its not easy for me.
 

Max Roscoe

Kingfisher
One trend I noticed even during the old ROK times was that some friends were finding happiness in relationships with older (30s plus) women, women past their child-bearing years, and divorcees. I won't go so far as to endorse any of those traits, but it highlighted to me the state of our society.

We are living in very difficult times. Almost all of us have our material needs met, while our spiritual and matrimonial needs are desperately wanting. If one is holding out for a pure, chaste, good and Godly wife, one will be waiting a long time, and the numbers probably say that some of us will end up single for life. So given the times that we are in, and the choice between a wild, young fertile woman who has done things we cannot bear to imagine, versus an older woman who grew up in saner times, did some sinful things but is now much more calm, mature, and focused on a family life, I certainly see why men are picking the latter.

Now the important question is does one ignore red flags, and accept someone despite things that bother us. I understand why men do. I desperately want a partner. But I choose to be single because a) the risk of divorce in the west is so great (not only an enormous financial risk but I have seen it mentally and spiritually devastate men) and b) I do hold out for someone who meets my standards. If the woman had a spiritual change in her life that gave me reason to believe she would behave differently going forward, then she is forgiven by God and I would try to forget her past and accept her.
 

Leonard D Neubache

Owl
Gold Member
Those in the manosphere who have found Christ are going to find themselves obligated to drop their "never forgive, never forget" outlook on life along with a whole raft of so-called alpha male thinking that goes entirely against what Christ would do in such a position.

The flip side of the coin in regards to the OP is that a man should be extremely hesitant to accept a woman who has sinned heavily if she is not yet redeemed through Christ. This is the same as drug addicts who've decided to go cold-turkey on their own without being properly reformed. They don't have the proper mental and spiritual grounding to understand the nature of their addiction and are therefore far more likely to fall back under its sway when they find themselves going through hard times again.

At very least they would have to demonstrate thorough awareness of why their former lifestyle was inherently wrong rather than being something they simply didn't want to do anymore. Absence makes the heart grow fonder, and in ten years she's going to forget all the horrible stuff about being pumped and dumped and think fondly back to the dates and the attention and the orgasms with exciting strangers.
 

Tiger Man

Woodpecker
I'll jump in with some practical advice that I have gotten from priests I have spoken with on the matter.

First, I have yet to meet a competent priest who does not insist on very serious Pre-Cana courses for couples who intend to marry. These courses (the good ones) will last, at minimum, six months. And, they will delve deeply in to the various important aspects of the couples present, future, and past. It can be a very uncomfortable, but necessary, process to go through. It is not uncommon for the couple to part ways or for the priest to refuse to marry the couple if there are too many problems in any areas. As an aside, I believe it to be imperative for couples who intend to enter in to a sacramental marriage - and, thus, intending to marry for life - to divulge to each other the general aspects of their pasts. In other words, if you do not have an idea about what kind of girl you are dealing with, or, worse, her past is an abyss to you, you have a serious problem.

Second, a very good friend of mine who is a Melkite priest holds to a fairly hard line on compatibility and past sexual sins (or lack thereof). I mentioned this in another thread once and went in to far more detail, but the thread appears to have been deleted. Briefly, this priest counsels that couples intending to marry are best served if their sexual pasts are fairly similar. He has a rather bleak view on couples marrying where one of the two is exceptionally sexually experienced and the other is not. He takes a very, very hardline on chaste virgins marrying those who are not. That might not apply to anyone on this forum. But, I have had more conversations on this topic than perhaps any other, so I thought I would mention it.

Third, there is an important aspect when deciding to pursue a woman (or, for women, a man) for marriage. It is specifically important in the context of sexual sin. Time. The only way you will know if she is serious in her conversion is time and observation. It does not initially matter what she says or how serious she appears. Roosh mentioned this in one of his live streams and it instantly caught my attention, because I have had a priest say the same thing to me - "Do not involve yourself with any woman who has been in the Church for less than one year." Those who are too new in the faith can, and often do, fall away after the initial fervor falls away.

Finally, I will offer a personal observation. Any man must seriously assess a "new to religion" girl's environment. Has she severed ties with her past life? Or, is she still friends with her old crowd? And, does she still hang out at the same places she used to (parties, bars, whatever)? I used to seriously go on about domain being everything. In the case of religious conversion, I will double down. Severing ties with an old fallen life - and I mean complete severance - can be a good indicator that a girl is on the right path. I am not talking about forcing anything. She has to decide this for herself. But no one should fall in to the illusion that a girl can simultaneously be a "good Christian girl" and still inhabit the same, fallen domain that she used to live her secular life in.

My two cents.
 

BiggNastee

Woodpecker
^^ I agree with everything just one point my brain is trying to reconcile. The pastor talking about similar sexual pasts.. I'm just thinking that no matter what. With what we've done with women and what most have them have done. There is always going to be that nagging feeling. Whether it's me or her thinking of someone else
 

Tiger Man

Woodpecker
^^ I agree with everything just one point my brain is trying to reconcile. The pastor talking about similar sexual pasts.. I'm just thinking that no matter what. With what we've done with women and what most have them have done. There is always going to be that nagging feeling. Whether it's me or her thinking of someone else

I agree. Even for "very experienced" people, there can always be nagging feelings of sexual jealousy, comparison, and retroactive mate guarding. These feelings are going to differ in severity depending on the person. But, often, they are just awful and there is not much a religious person can do about it other than pray.

As to why the priest (and I) think it is a good idea to attempt to pair up with someone who is somewhat similar, it doesn't have a lot to do with understanding, and, therefore, forgiving the person's past. That is necessary to marry, but not the main point here. Melkites are Eastern Catholics. Very old school. A lot of the advice I get from this crowd is of the more "common sense", practical variety. The reason that the sexually experienced are, perhaps, better served by marrying the likewise sexually experienced is because those people are exactly the ones in a position to know, anticipate, and (hopefully) sidestep the pitfalls that are inherent to a life lived in sexual sin. To look at the other option, imagine a vanilla-white virgin guy marrying a highly promiscuous woman. One day she tells him (*and I am being purposely bombastic here to make my point*) that she just booked a PR consulting gig in Dubai (despite the fact that she is a middle school tutor) and she is going to be gone for a week. Oh, and also she won't be on her phone or social media and don't try to contact her. Mr. nice virgin guy gives his wife a big kiss, tells her he loves her, and tells her to have a great trip. But, put an RVF alum in the same position and I think that conversation might go a bit differently. Obviously, that is an outlandish example. But, I have seen many examples of good sexually inexperienced people in broken marriages because their spouse was cheating and they simply couldn't see what would be plain to any of us. That is what the advice was all about.

As to your nagging feeling. If a man or woman are constantly having "flashbacks" to their sexual pasts even though they are now married, that has to be brought up to a licensed, experienced, older religious counselor. My preference would be for a counseling couple with experience in this area.

If one (or both) of the people in the marriage is experiencing serious retroactive jealously, that is unlikely to go away. It almost never goes away on its own, and RSJ is, in the religious, treatment-resistant. The standard therapies simply do not work for religious people and the only effective alternative is to go on psychiatric medication. That is not something I would ever recommend except as an absolute last resort. And, again, this is a good reason to seriously assess where you and your girl stand on this. You need to examine your own feelings, perhaps with the assistance of a priest or counselor, and decide how to proceed. Any man or woman who enters a marriage thinking that their feelings of jealousy or disgust about their partners sexual past will just eventually fade away is kidding themselves.
 

rpg

Ostrich
From what I have seen, women don't walk it off or let water flow under the bridge. When they do really dumb stuff it sticks with them permanently. Maybe that is why in the old days they tried so hard to protect women from everything. The only truly wise and persevering women I had met are some who have faced death through some illness, found comfort in faith and grew through it.
 

Easy_C

Crow
Those in the manosphere who have found Christ are going to find themselves obligated to drop their "never forgive, never forget" outlook on life along with a whole raft of so-called alpha male thinking that goes entirely against what Christ would do in such a position.

The flip side of the coin in regards to the OP is that a man should be extremely hesitant to accept a woman who has sinned heavily if she is not yet redeemed through Christ. This is the same as drug addicts who've decided to go cold-turkey on their own without being properly reformed. They don't have the proper mental and spiritual grounding to understand the nature of their addiction and are therefore far more likely to fall back under its sway when they find themselves going through hard times again.

I think that's the best response in the thread.

There's a lady on my in-laws side who had some issues in that area when she was in the 18-20 range. That said her notch count is much lower than the ones discussed and she's been making a suitable effort. It is apparent that she has some significant, lingering self-worth issues.

(She lives heartland region and I'd actually be open to making an introduction for a good guy. I do believe in her current state her heart is in the right place and she's been rapidly learning domestic skills).


Which leads to my point. You need to see both that they've done what Leonard talks about and figure out what the psychological impact is. There is also an element of reciprocity: if you've done a lot of dumb shit in your past I think it's not entirely fair to demand (choice of words: "demand" vs. "desire") a wife who had the perfect past. That doesn't mean you let obvious red flags or problems go. It just means that you shouldn't necessarily judge people who have done the exact same thing you have and have clearly demonstrated repentance.
 

KingDavid

Sparrow
Matthew 7:13-14 and Luke 23:39-43 contradict themselves. I believe the former has authority on the latter, so no, Christ will not save her until she's justly punished, and that may be for the rest of her natural life and further.

Breaking the commandments is no joke, the punishment will be severe.

Jesus says, “Her sins, which are many, have been forgiven, for she loved much; but he who is forgiven little, loves little” (Luke 7:47).

If she was unfaithful to a previous partner that is more than just a minor sin, that's as severe as it gets. You should not get involved.

16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

These are the precious commandments given by Jesus Himself.
 
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big poppa

Kingfisher
Gold Member
Matthew 7:13-14 and Luke 23:39-43 contradict themselves. I believe the former has authority on the latter, so no, Christ will not save her until she's justly punished, and that may be for the rest of her natural life and further.

Breaking the commandments is no joke, the punishment will be severe.



If she was unfaithful to a previous partner that is more than just a minor sin, that's as severe as it gets. You should not get involved.


What are your thoughts on if the man has done this himself, previously?

Generally I agree with your sentiments. Past cheating shows a lack of character and loyalty.. But is it grounds to take things no further if I have made the exact mistake myself?
 

KingDavid

Sparrow
What are your thoughts on if the man has done this himself, previously?

Generally I agree with your sentiments. Past cheating shows a lack of character and loyalty.. But is it grounds to take things no further if I have made the exact mistake myself?

You have to accept that you will be punished and ask the Lord for mercy.

7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.


Ask Him, seek to find the spiritual connection.
 

Rush87

Hummingbird
A big reason that this sin incorrectly holds greater value than others, especially for us is the cut and dry red flag nature that we've reaffirmed for over a decade plus now, depending on your age.

I'm careful with my words, as there are alot of truths that can sometimes be linked with a woman who has sexually sinned in the past I:E: Unreliable, untrustworthy etc - But we have created a black and white that will close off millions of men, pushing them in pursuit of the rare chaste woman due to an inability to forgive (A woman who undoubtedly has sinned in other areas with which we don't focus on, yet easily forgive).

We no longer live in the age of nunneries. The state of man is at an all time low. A woman needs only to try and form a relationship once a year, to close in on/surpass double digits if no suitable men arise by her mid 20's.

Is a girl who had two notches at 18 and met a good man at 19 a better choice than the girl who had a notch once every 6 months until she met a good guy at 24, whilst at 12 notches.

These are sins that require repenting, and sins that the devil plays upon due to envy, pride and wrath but if you are dealing with a woman who has repented, and only you can trust the sincerity, then you are forgoing your own happiness through an inability to forgive.

Especially for this forum (and the black and white conditioning we've had via group think for a long time) forgiveness will be something most of us need to work through unless we want to be prisoners of pride or voluntary Bachelors moving forward.
 
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Is it possible God led her to me, knowing that I could help her spiritually? Or am I fooling myself simply because I find her very beautiful?
Some women disconnect themselves from their state of mind and the sexual act, hence remain a pure, girly or innocent mind while her body knows otherwise. If she makes that impression on you and you are sure she is not keeping an act, go for it. I can tell you from my observations that only virgin girls or very slutty girls have the ability to keep their mental innocence. I found myself very attracted to both, despite my being repulsed by women whoring around, those who have the innocence in them would make me compromise on their past acts. Don't know why, but there is something that Dostoevsky knew about when he wrote Crime and Punishment.
 
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Mike_Key

Robin
Some women disconnect themselves from their state of mind and the sexual act, hence remain a pure, girly or innocent mind while her body knows otherwise. If she makes that impression on you and you are sure she is not keeping an act, go for it. I can tell you from my observations that only virgin girls or very slutty girls have the ability to keep their mental innocence. I found myself very attracted to both, despite my being repulsed by women whoring around, those who have the innocence in them would make me compromise on their past acts. Don't know why, but there is something that Dostoevsky knew about when he wrote Crime and Punishment.

I don't understand this at all.

Unless you are married and we can listen in to your arguments like Siri does, I believe a "very slutty" girls goes into a relationship with her next Boyfriend (of many more) or her permanent (hopefully) Husband with baggage upon baggage.

You'll have to work for years to improve that situation.

John 3:16
 

Leonard D Neubache

Owl
Gold Member
A woman who has psychologically walled off everything that happens when she submits to sex likely has suffered some kind of severe abuse, usually during childhood. It's not uncommon for girls who've been molested as children to compartmentalize sex as something that happens to the other them so that the actual them can get on with their life without constant suffering. Hence despite having many partners (and seeing no consequence, because the other them is walled off) they actually seem more innocent than psychologically healthy women who've "only" been with half a dozen men.

These women need a priest and should not be courted without the understanding that you are in for a long, difficult road when that barrier between the other them and the actual them finally breaks, and it always breaks sooner or later. Ironically the one left with the mess when those skeletons finally spill out of the closet is usually the safe, nice-guy who thinks he's found his unicorn (she's sweet but she also fucks like a pro, man, what luck!!!).

As always, if something seems too good to be true, it usually is. These girls are easy enough to detect if you don't have you vagina-blinders on. You will note that the base-line intimacy in your relationship doesn't alter very much regardless of what level you're holding hands at. She will always be like a light switch. 100% on or 100% off.
 
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I don't understand this at all.

Unless you are married and we can listen in to your arguments like Siri does, I believe a "very slutty" girls goes into a relationship with her next Boyfriend (of many more) or her permanent (hopefully) Husband with baggage upon baggage.

You'll have to work for years to improve that situation.

John 3:16
You are not wrong in saying that women as such have (a lot of) baggage, though they are manageable contrary to the non-virgin-face slut. There are sluts that disconnect from their bodies because they believe if they don't have sex with a man they don't love it doesn't count as real sex. Though it sounds crazy, to some degree it makes sense because, though their bodies are involved, their emotions are not involved. They are already numb before the break-up, what is different with a slut who falls for a man and gets her heart repeatedly broken. The former has more hope than the latter is what I'm saying.
 
A common thing I've heard women say, particularly with regards to either a ONS or prior infidelity, is something like, "It was a mistake and I don't do it anymore, but I have no regrets because I've been able to learn from it and grow as a person." This sort of thinking is antithetical to the Christian notion on sin, in my opinion. While it is true that there are some lessons that can be learned through a life of sin, how can one not have deep remorse for prior actions that have directly damaged their relationship with God? When I hear those types of statements , what I think they are actually trying to say is, that they regret the consequences their actions, but not the actions themselves. They regret only that it is causing friction to their current relationship. So at the very least, I would be avoid a relationship with a woman with an extensive past if she doesn't acknowledge her past as sinful and have true sorrow for it. That being said, I can't read people's minds, so it may be hard to tell who is genuine and who is not, but if you're with someone long enough you can try and see the clues.
 

Rob Banks

Pelican
I would say that when a woman claims to be "reformed" (or whatever), men should use their intuition, rather than their analytical skills, to judge these claims. A woman either has grace and spiritual beauty or she doesn't, and it's not something you can really explain or judge through rational analysis.

However, as @Leonard D Neubache pointed out, men often have their "vagina blinders" on, so it is likely their "intuition" will just tell them to follow their lust.
 
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