Using Christ to overcome the sexual past of a potential wife

infowarrior1

Hummingbird
Many Christian men (I'm Catholic) and women are not even aware that sex before marriage is a sin.

That's a failing of the church. They are however acutely aware that stealing is wrong.

So if someone were to steal, it's knowingly committing a wrong - but I can guarantee many men, myself included would be far less bothered by this sin, than if she'd had multiple partners in the past, and that's most definitely due to pride.
Shotgun marriage alongside a bride price was the historic solution that God commanded to premarital sex. Unless the Father utterly refuses to give her to him.(Exodus 22:16-17).
 

infowarrior1

Hummingbird
Expecting a virgin wife for marriage is a civlization old custom that is not exclusive to Christianity.

I'm not saying it can't be done, but there must be a natural, observable, and quantifiable aspect to a woman being a virgin or you wouldn't see this in civilizations across time and all over the world.

It may go back to the first hunter gatherer tribes where the men would go out and hunt together. Each man would work together because he knew he had his woman back waiting for him. Would single male hunters risk life and limb to bring down dangerous game if there were no prospects of a woman? You would have men dropping out.... just like we have today.

That is where we are today and why you see men withdrawing from society. Sure, you could settle for an infertile woman who has been around town, but it will never be the same as having a good quality young women who will give you multiple children and still have the ability to "love" you.

Ecclesiastes 1:9 New International Version (NIV)
9 What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.


We are having to reinvent the wheel here. All this knowledge was known before, here we are rediscovering what the ancients knew and put into all holy books and the mores of civilization.
We may expect. But there aren't many virgins or any virgins left if we have to choose in a Western Country. We have little choice in the matter.
 

loremipsum

Kingfisher
Im not buying that men are dropping out because lack of women. That can be one aspect too, but it sounds more like the good old "men do everything because of sex (monuments etc .)
 
I couldn't read this thread but I want to add my comment. I told her I'm a year older than her, last month. This month I told her my real age and that she has to forget her past and be a year younger than me after she finally decided to show me what she looks like without makeup. I'm cool but that's just coming on too strong hahah.

I don't expect the same level of hard work and work ethic from her so I'll fix everything on Monday, let's see what she can do on her own.
 

ICXC

Newbie
I’d far prefer a woman who was open about her past - and had truly repented and reformed - than one of the countless “Christian” women who lie about their “innocence” while living in filth.
Do we have the discernment to identify true repentance compared to a woman who is lying about it?
If you put a kid in timeout and they cry and then later say they are sorry then I guess the kid is sorry, same principle applies.
 
I think there are ways to tell, or at least to get hints as to which side of that fence she’s on. It mostly involves testing her and seeing how she responds, along with discerning how genuine that response is.
 

ICXC

Newbie
What is 'genuine' I believe is the hiccup here right? I agree ok, I think though that when genuinely sorry she becomes incredibly appeasing and say's 'I'm sorry, I'm sorry' or what have you. You hear a girl say they are 'sorry' about as much as you'll hear her give you a 'genuine' compliment. Anyways I think a 'genuine' sorry comes with little to no excuses or extra verbal discussion, whereas a fake sorry has a ton of other verbal nonsense attached to it. If she says, 'I'm sorry, but...' then it's not genuine. And normally that's pretty rare anyways. Honestly she could be in tears it really doesn't make a difference, it's impossible to tell. The only way to know is if she doesn't do whatever it is again. I mean actions will always rule over words in a relationship, now and forever. Although if she wants to like make you aroused and is all playful after an argument you know that aint genuine at all and now she's basically trying too hard and thinks 'fight's' are 'normal' - the girls that think fights are normal and 'healthy' are demented, stay far away. Disagreements will always happen inevitably, but some girls think "oh, fights are just normal" and they make them happen, run away, run far far away.

I mean holding her to a standard helps, like framing the relationship and certain things as 'good' and 'bad' obviously. I don't know, I don't think you can ever really know how truly 'sorry' she is and or how genuine it is. As a side note one thing I always thought was legit was I remember reading about a dude who took his girl to confession and after they both had confession then he proposed to her. I always thought that was legit. I mean you can never really know and so you have to let God's will be done and trust in that and that she believes it. How do you know she believes it, by going to church with you right, having the sacraments, etc. Again, actions, not words right. Anyways.
 
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joost

Kingfisher
What I see in real life is women asking for "forgiveness" only when they SMV decreases and her fertile years are close to end. They whore around till their 30s and decide to "change" like going to church, dressing more discreetly... just to find Mr. Right.

She might play the wife role (go to church, not cheat, etc) but "changed" only because she had to not because she want it.

I said it before. I don't think most women are whores/thots but those who are repent only when the wall comes.
 

ICXC

Newbie
Everyone deserves repentance, only them and God know their souls. The notion that her 'smv' is her 'whole' existence really discredits a lot of intrinsic value women have. Nurturers, caring, willing to support, they are greatest support people on earth, more than half of humans, I don't believe they are simply objects to be abused, that is the naturalistic lie. When men do not have God they see only her 'sexual market value' - it's more than that. Obviously men highly favor looks, like alot more than we should, but in reality the dignity inherent to women plays them a critical role in every man's life and life in general. This simple notion of defending their virginity was taken to the extreme though and distorted in society, so now I say a woman has dignity and men are appalled, as if I'm now a 'white knight' simply because I'm actually defending her humanity. Yeah man, at the end of the day were all sinners, sure, some have more sexual appeal than others, great, but guess what also? Were all gunna die too, so tell me how that smv thing is workin' out for ya in 10-20 years.

I mean I totally get it ok, I'm the first to say I judge based on 'looks' but attraction can vary and not every 'supermodel' is actually what every man needs or really wants. It's sad cuse I want to defend my sisters in Christ but society has screwed them over so damn bad, like all of society is structured to help them and plays to their every whim and the evil gatekeeping employed mocks women. Societies created self serving gay boys who will defend a woman because the man has nothing real to conquer (but videogames), nothing real to manage (but his social media account) no real friends (but his online 'friends') no real 'sex' (but his porn), society has given men the pseudo form of everything they want and has drained them of life literally and figuratively and the soy's who defend women do it out of genuine care and respect for her but only because they can't see the light, they are trapped in their teenager or child mind.

Every man has natural gifts and talents and a God given ability to stand up for what is right, but his most primal urge (to defend 'his' woman) has be co-opted...should the player be allowed to flirt with the drunken chick and the white knight soy should step aside? No, both are wrong, both are gay. The problem is the entire society standards are distorted because there's no damn jobs to make living wage for many younger men, thus no way to make families, and by extension the women don't want them and are getting used up by the 'players'....all the while the average dude whose just like, "Hey man, I just want a normal job and average girlfriend why is everyone such a damn weirdo?" is on the sidelines scratching his head wondering how it all went wrong.

I wanna defend women, but its tough man, when all of society caters to her, I mostly just resent all of the trash dads and men who didn't raise their kids right. I don't do it cuse I subconsciously want them, maybe in the past I did, like 10 years ago, I do it cuse they are my sisters in Christ. The fact of the matter is humans are being used like trash nowadays and yeah girls have all of society built and catered to them but sue me for wanting to still help them. I'd rather help them than the soy's and gay's who forgot how their role actually functions. Like the role of the dude is to guide the girl and shes there to support, it's that easy, they can't even do the easiest thing ever.

Maybe I'm one to talk, I don't know, I've treated women like objects for years and years, but the fact of the matter is looks are highly valued by men and also highly distorted and so if you don't actually get to know that girl you will cause some major problems for her and yourself and your kids kids and their kids and their kids. Anyways I'm done with this topic, It's been exhausted to death for me, just needed to try to redeem myself and maybe help a lost soul out there who reads this. I think every person has dignity and deserves repentance.

Obviously justice will come in it's time, but that's not really for us to dish out depending on what it is. If you don't like the single mom, you don't have to marry her. Am I going to? No, nor have I ever dated one, but just sayin', people are people and yeah it's a major problem which I don't want to slap a band-aid over and claim we should just sign them wel-fare check or something but all I know is if someone directly comes to me for help I'm not going to turn them down. Were all tied to the Logos, Logos is in all people, all of realty is God's and all is His. What you do to others is what you have done to the Lord.

Matthew 25
I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, I was naked and you did not clothe Me, I was sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’ 44And they too will reply, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45Then the King will answer, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for Me.’
 
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infowarrior1

Hummingbird
Everyone deserves repentance, only them and God know their souls. The notion that her 'smv' is her 'whole' existence really discredits a lot of intrinsic value women have. Nurturers, caring, willing to support, they are greatest support people on earth, more than half of humans, I don't believe they are simply objects to be abused, that is the naturalistic lie. When men do not have God they see only her 'sexual market value' - it's more than that. Obviously men highly favor looks, like alot more than we should, but in reality the dignity inherent to women plays them a critical role in every man's life and life in general. This simple notion of defending their virginity was taken to the extreme though and distorted in society, so now I say a woman has dignity and men are appalled, as if I'm now a 'white knight' simply because I'm actually defending her humanity. Yeah man, at the end of the day were all sinners, sure, some have more sexual appeal than others, great, but guess what also? Were all gunna die too, so tell me how that smv thing is workin' out for ya in 10-20 years.

I mean I totally get it ok, I'm the first to say I judge based on 'looks' but attraction can vary and not every 'supermodel' is actually what every man needs or really wants. It's sad cuse I want to defend my sisters in Christ but society has screwed them over so damn bad, like all of society is structured to help them and plays to their every whim and the evil gatekeeping employed mocks women. Societies created self serving gay boys who will defend a woman because the man has nothing real to conquer (but videogames), nothing real to manage (but his social media account) no real friends (but his online 'friends') no real 'sex' (but his porn), society has given men the pseudo form of everything they want and has drained them of life literally and figuratively and the soy's who defend women do it out of genuine care and respect for her but only because they can't see the light, they are trapped in their teenager or child mind.

Every man has natural gifts and talents and a God given ability to stand up for what is right, but his most primal urge (to defend 'his' woman) has be co-opted...should the player be allowed to flirt with the drunken chick and the white knight soy should step aside? No, both are wrong, both are gay. The problem is the entire society standards are distorted because there's no damn jobs to make living wage for many younger men, thus no way to make families, and by extension the women don't want them and are getting used up by the 'players'....all the while the average dude whose just like, "Hey man, I just want a normal job and average girlfriend why is everyone such a damn weirdo?" is on the sidelines scratching his head wondering how it all went wrong.

I wanna defend women, but its tough man, when all of society caters to her, I mostly just resent all of the trash dads and men who didn't raise their kids right. I don't do it cuse I subconsciously want them, maybe in the past I did, like 10 years ago, I do it cuse they are my sisters in Christ. The fact of the matter is humans are being used like trash nowadays and yeah girls have all of society built and catered to them but sue me for wanting to still help them. I'd rather help them than the soy's and gay's who forgot how their role actually functions. Like the role of the dude is to guide the girl and shes there to support, it's that easy, they can't even do the easiest thing ever.

Maybe I'm one to talk, I don't know, I've treated women like objects for years and years, but the fact of the matter is looks are highly valued by men and also highly distorted and so if you don't actually get to know that girl you will cause some major problems for her and yourself and your kids kids and their kids and their kids. Anyways I'm done with this topic, It's been exhausted to death for me, just needed to try to redeem myself and maybe help a lost soul out there who reads this. I think every person has dignity and deserves repentance.

Obviously justice will come in it's time, but that's not really for us to dish out depending on what it is. If you don't like the single mom, you don't have to marry her. Am I going to? No, nor have I ever dated one, but just sayin', people are people and yeah it's a major problem which I don't want to slap a band-aid over and claim we should just sign them wel-fare check or something but all I know is if someone directly comes to me for help I'm not going to turn them down. Were all tied to the Logos, Logos is in all people, all of realty is God's and all is His. What you do to others is what you have done to the Lord.

Matthew 25
I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, I was naked and you did not clothe Me, I was sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’ 44And they too will reply, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45Then the King will answer, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for Me.’
No one "Deserves" Forgiveness. Precisely because all Forgiveness is undeserved in God's sight. Only made possible by the Blood of Christ.

I agree that character is important along with Physical attraction in terms of looks. Although Character should take priority and physical attraction should exist for the marriage to work.
 
A woman who rides the carousel then asks for forgiveness may very well get forgiveness. Doesn't mean I have to sleep with them or marry them though. They made poor decisions in life that have lasting consequences. I will still love them and wish the best for them. I'm not going to support them or trust them though.

Forgiveness is about not carrying hatred towards them. It doesn't mean you blindly trust them or pretend that it never happened.
 

Waverer

Robin
I think I can rationally see her past as the past and not how she will behave when married. But is there a way to overcome the subrational ickiness about it? Just live with it? Remind yourself of her good qualities?
 

Rush87

Ostrich
I think I can rationally see her past as the past and not how she will behave when married. But is there a way to overcome the subrational ickiness about it? Just live with it? Remind yourself of her good qualities?
My honest instinct is that I simply couldn't be with them. The issue with that, especially if you're in your mid 20's or older is that virtually every single woman you will meet will have some 'icky' past that you'll have to get past, so it's going to take some deeper thought.
 
I think I can rationally see her past as the past and not how she will behave when married. But is there a way to overcome the subrational ickiness about it? Just live with it? Remind yourself of her good qualities?
But some women, have far more ickyness in their past, than others. And some to such an extent that pair bonding with you, will be difficult to impossible. As was discussed on another thread, finding out the truth of her notch count may be challenging.

I remember how during my college years, I dated a pretty girl from my church. My mother viewed herself as having acute powers of observation, in judging this young woman. "I can tell that she is still a virgin," my mom declared confidently. Hahaha! Not even close, mom! Yes, the girl was pretty, sweet, intelligent, well-mannered, and in church every Sunday, but as I later found out, she had ridden the cock carousel hard, during a year of rebellion, which had happened just a few years previously.

Our relationship largely ended when I found out she had gone off to a ski resort, and had sex with a guy there, in an outdoor hot tub! And supposedly we were two chaste Mormon kids. Lol A female friend, who looking back on things, liked me, clued me in on what had happened. I was furious and confronted the girl I was dating. She became a water works of tears, but that did not change my frame of mind. And then she did something I had never seen a women up to that point, do before. She stopped crying in mid sob, as if flicking a switch, became emotionally composed, and calmly & coldly explained that she did do it, and that what she did was wrong, but that what was done, was done. I felt she missed an opportunity by never becoming an actress...

The guy she was with, was what I would call an Asian "mini alpha." He was an unusual type, in that he was definitely alpha, but was only around 5'6 and an average build. But highly intelligent, very charming, a high achiever, on the good-looking side, and with a knack for talking to women. She had a thing for him, but of course she was just an again off again notch in his belt, as is the alpha way. As a college student I struggled to buy her dinner at a decent restaurant and do other things for her, while he would just do a booty call, arriving with some dollar menu McDonalds, which after they ate, resulted in sex on her sofa. She was not thrilled with his treatment of her. Lol

She did eventually marry a good guy, tall and athletic looking, who I would describe not as alpha, but a high level beta. Last I heard, they have two kids, and are doing well as dedicated Mormons. I wonder if she ever opened up about her past. I would say that she will eventually cheat on him, but perhaps now she is wiser and stronger, with a man who will hopefully keep her interested and tied down. And she is in a religious subculture which will seriously punish her for any discovered infidelity, now that she is married.

Mormon singles are generally not punished harshly for extramarital sex (unless on a mission or at a church school), but once married, church discipline is harsh by modern standards.
 

Touchdown

Newbie
A common thing I've heard women say, particularly with regards to either a ONS or prior infidelity, is something like, "It was a mistake and I don't do it anymore, but I have no regrets because I've been able to learn from it and grow as a person." This sort of thinking is antithetical to the Christian notion on sin, in my opinion. While it is true that there are some lessons that can be learned through a life of sin, how can one not have deep remorse for prior actions that have directly damaged their relationship with God? When I hear those types of statements, what I think they are actually trying to say is, that they regret the consequences their actions, but not the actions themselves. They regret only that it is causing friction to their current relationship. So at the very least, I would be avoid a relationship with a woman with an extensive past if she doesn't acknowledge her past as sinful and have true sorrow for it. That being said, I can't read people's minds, so it may be hard to tell who is genuine and who is not, but if you're with someone long enough you can try and see the clues.
I believe this is too true of a statement. I think this is what separates the "spiritual" women from the "Godly" women.
 
No one "Deserves" Forgiveness. Precisely because all Forgiveness is undeserved in God's sight. Only made possible by the Blood of Christ.

I agree that character is important along with Physical attraction in terms of looks. Although Character should take priority and physical attraction should exist for the marriage to work.
You are correct that no one deserves forgiveness, nor can they earn it. I do need to point out, though, that the line you bolded in the requote of the post you were replying to used the word "repentance", not "forgiveness". Everyone deserves a chance to try to turn their life around, if they genuinely want to.

Most heterosexual men (including myself) are 'obsessed' with boobs and hips to some degree; but the more 'heart of gold' she has, the importance of those first two 'attributes' tend to fall farther down our list.
 
Everyone deserves repentance, only them and God know their souls. The notion that her 'smv' is her 'whole' existence really discredits a lot of intrinsic value women have. Nurturers, caring, willing to support, they are greatest support people on earth, more than half of humans, I don't believe they are simply objects to be abused, that is the naturalistic lie. When men do not have God they see only her 'sexual market value' - it's more than that. Obviously men highly favor looks, like alot more than we should, but in reality the dignity inherent to women plays them a critical role in every man's life and life in general. This simple notion of defending their virginity was taken to the extreme though and distorted in society, so now I say a woman has dignity and men are appalled, as if I'm now a 'white knight' simply because I'm actually defending her humanity. Yeah man, at the end of the day were all sinners, sure, some have more sexual appeal than others, great, but guess what also? Were all gunna die too, so tell me how that smv thing is workin' out for ya in 10-20 years.

I mean I totally get it ok, I'm the first to say I judge based on 'looks' but attraction can vary and not every 'supermodel' is actually what every man needs or really wants. It's sad cuse I want to defend my sisters in Christ but society has screwed them over so damn bad, like all of society is structured to help them and plays to their every whim and the evil gatekeeping employed mocks women. Societies created self serving gay boys who will defend a woman because the man has nothing real to conquer (but videogames), nothing real to manage (but his social media account) no real friends (but his online 'friends') no real 'sex' (but his porn), society has given men the pseudo form of everything they want and has drained them of life literally and figuratively and the soy's who defend women do it out of genuine care and respect for her but only because they can't see the light, they are trapped in their teenager or child mind.

Every man has natural gifts and talents and a God given ability to stand up for what is right, but his most primal urge (to defend 'his' woman) has be co-opted...should the player be allowed to flirt with the drunken chick and the white knight soy should step aside? No, both are wrong, both are gay. The problem is the entire society standards are distorted because there's no damn jobs to make living wage for many younger men, thus no way to make families, and by extension the women don't want them and are getting used up by the 'players'....all the while the average dude whose just like, "Hey man, I just want a normal job and average girlfriend why is everyone such a damn weirdo?" is on the sidelines scratching his head wondering how it all went wrong.

I wanna defend women, but its tough man, when all of society caters to her, I mostly just resent all of the trash dads and men who didn't raise their kids right. I don't do it cuse I subconsciously want them, maybe in the past I did, like 10 years ago, I do it cuse they are my sisters in Christ. The fact of the matter is humans are being used like trash nowadays and yeah girls have all of society built and catered to them but sue me for wanting to still help them. I'd rather help them than the soy's and gay's who forgot how their role actually functions. Like the role of the dude is to guide the girl and shes there to support, it's that easy, they can't even do the easiest thing ever.

Maybe I'm one to talk, I don't know, I've treated women like objects for years and years, but the fact of the matter is looks are highly valued by men and also highly distorted and so if you don't actually get to know that girl you will cause some major problems for her and yourself and your kids kids and their kids and their kids. Anyways I'm done with this topic, It's been exhausted to death for me, just needed to try to redeem myself and maybe help a lost soul out there who reads this. I think every person has dignity and deserves repentance.

Obviously justice will come in it's time, but that's not really for us to dish out depending on what it is. If you don't like the single mom, you don't have to marry her. Am I going to? No, nor have I ever dated one, but just sayin', people are people and yeah it's a major problem which I don't want to slap a band-aid over and claim we should just sign them wel-fare check or something but all I know is if someone directly comes to me for help I'm not going to turn them down. Were all tied to the Logos, Logos is in all people, all of realty is God's and all is His. What you do to others is what you have done to the Lord.

Matthew 25
I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, I was naked and you did not clothe Me, I was sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’ 44And they too will reply, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45Then the King will answer, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for Me.’
With Atheism as the core religion of both groups, the Manosphere reduced women's collective value to the same level of sexist BS that feminism did.

The PUA community/Alt Right's explanation of "female agency" (why women are the way they are/do what they do), is misogyny in it's purest form. "Evolutionary Psychology" reduces all women to unreasoning animals.

That degrading insult is then used to justify "Game" (just more of the 'deception' that originally seduced Eve), which reduces all women to being worth nothing more than literal sex pets.

Women's only value is reduced to being holes for a man's penis. No morals, no love, no sacrifice - all women being automatons incapable of anything beyond planning for their own parasitical greed, while 'loving' their husbands and children solely for Darwinian instinct reasons. No soul, no control, no choice - in anything.

Absolutely disgusting.
 
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