Vaccine and Catholicism

I believe we have a duty to preserve our bodily integrity. We also have a duty to exercise our God given practical reason.

So I have not and will not take the vaccine.

I had covid and now have natural immunity. We can't lock the entire globe down and paralyze everyone with fear, to force experimental vaccines on everyone for a virus with a 99% survival rate...

We should be encouraging people to exercise and eat healthy. To take vitamins. To cultivate a mindset of gratitude. To pray and give thanks to God. But the handful of doctors who dared go this route have been demonized/banned/cancelled, etc.

This whole thing is a scandal beyond words.
 

SoCal9705

Pigeon
"Gene therapy can be most simply defined as the genetic modification of cells to produce a therapeutic effect," and therefore the mRNA vaccines are gene therapy, since they modify your cells' genetic material to produce spike protein.
Yes, and since there is no genetic modification to the cell, it's not gene therapy. The vax "infects" your cells very much like a natural virus would. The difference is there is no viral genome and the mRNA instructs the cell on how to make a version of the spike protein. Whatever one wishes to name it doesn't change what it is or what it does. It doesn't interact with your DNA or modify your genes in any way. It doesn't enter the nucleus of the cell where DNA resides exclusively.

This is just ignorance on your part, and I notice that you do not cite your claims.
i always feel satisfied when someone calls me "ignorant" since it means they are unable to respond to the argument - implies i'm right! There's lots of info out there on breakthru infections and severity of vax vs non-vax and no, i'm not going to google it for you.


The vaccines do not prevent against spread, nor they do protect against mortality. This is clear not only from clinical trials, but also from recent data: 74% of those recently infected with COVID-19 in Massachusetts were fully vaccinated.


This is in a state in which 63% of eligible residents are fully vaccinated. In other words, the vaccines don't work at all. They're duds.
Again, it's out there how those who are vaccinated have much milder symptoms, almost no chance of death even with co-morbidities.

The Mark of the Beast is 666. The pre-cursor or "type" of the Mark is not necessarily 666, and the vaccine is definitely a precursor of the Mark, since it is tied to the buying and selling of goods, mostly of the hedonistic kind.
This is surprising from someone calling other "ignorant" and demanding citations, then you provide no citation for a Bible-based claim that is not in the Bible. Revelations 13 makes no mention of a "precursor" nor have i found this from the magisterium. I think you made it up, or at least have a very idiosyncratic interpretation.

For Catholics, only the Pope is infallible -- and only when he speaks ex Cathedra. Your run-of-the-mill bishops are 100% foolish when it comes to vaccines and providing guidance to the faithful. The fact that they have not consulted expert virologists who are independent of Big Pharma demonstrates that they are ignorant (i.e. NOT good shepherds), and you are under no obligation to listen to their vaccine advice.

As successors to the Apostles the bishops are part of the magisterium and exercise teaching authority. While the Pope may speak infallibly ex cathedra, unless he does so the magisterium is authoritative. While you are certainly not obligated to take their vaccine advice, you certainly are entitled to rely on their statement of its moral permissibility in making a decision, and no Catholic is guilty of any sin for doing so, even if it is later determined it was immoral (which won't happen). But it's probably not a good idea to call Christ's representative in your diocese a "fool", even if you don't otherwise like him. I happen to not care much for our local ordinary, but I still recognize his episcopal authority on matters of faith and morals.

Not sure why you took it so hard that I think the vaccine was a good idea for me, and probably for most people. Like i said, i recognize anyone's right to make their own decision. But making up false narratives and distorting facts and getting nasty helps no one, nor is it necessary for you to justify your position. You decline the vaccine and that should be the end of it based on your human right to decide.
 

Pancras

Sparrow
I shared this before, but I encourage everyone once again to listen to the episode of True Restoration‘s podcast program in which Fr. Stephen McKenna lays out and explains the principles of Catholic morality that govern the use of vaccines, as well as the four follow-up episodes in which he discusses the moral and medical aspects regarding the ongoing Coronavirus drama:




The message of all these episodes is simple: it is not immoral to take a vaccine. The logic continues: you commit no morally heroic act by refusing to take one. Taking vaccines is morally neutral. But the question of whether it is prudent to take a vaccine is an entirely different question that very much depends on individual circumstances: such a question defies blanket statements and policies. [In January 2021, after consulting with Dr. Stanislowski, Fr. McKenna has released a seven-page paper explaining why, in his opinion, people ought not to rush into receiving a COVID vaccine: A Simple Advisory Regarding the New mRNA Coronavirus Vaccine (PDF)]

People, particularly in the United States, have watched chaos like they've never seen in their lifetimes in the last 15 months: government and media-encouraged "mostly peaceful" riots, questionable elections, transgender Cabinet officials, and more. Many of the frustrated public are so desperate to "take a stand" that they brag on social media that they "don't ever wear masks" or that they would rather "die" than take the vaccine. But such stands don't come from a Christian perspective.

As Christians we follow a law if it conforms to all four points of St. Thomas's classic definition:

- An ordinance
-of reason
- promulgated by the proper authority
- for the common good

One tactic that has been used by the Great Resetters during this crisis has been the use of executive orders with the claim that these orders qualify as law. The fact that numerous of these executive orders have been struck down by the courts as illegal or have been overturned by bipartisan legislatures as executive overreach have shown that these executive orders do not qualify as "ordinances," nor were they "promulgated by the proper authority," to say nothing of their questionable value for "the common good." They were not laws in any sense of the word and hence did not need to be obeyed.

But while it's one thing to see some arbitrary rule as a non-law, it's quite another to be obnoxious about your opinion. If a business states that you must wear a mask in order to enter, you are free to go somewhere else. Depending on the store and the part of the country, you might face no resistance whatsoever if you enter a store unmasked. But if you have to get into a confrontation every time you enter a business, it's not a good use of your time (or that business's): either wear a mask or go to a business that doesn't require masks. Don't mistake your anti-mask virtue signaling as some sort of Christian badge of honor. It isn't.

The same goes for the vaccine. You can see people posting on social media that they will "die before taking the vaccine." Apart from the problem of calling untested mRNA devices "vaccines," there is the fact that there is not a single government in the world that has mandated the vaccine for their entire citizenry (yet), nor is there any clarity on vaccine passports. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof. Instead of anticipating future events, and putting yourself forward as a "martyr" to them now, focus on today: are you living as a Christian so that if you are called to account you will have been able to acquit yourself as a profitable steward? Don't mistake your strong opinion about the so-called vaccines for Covid as a foreshadowing of your pending glorious martyrdom. It isn't.

Reading the Martyrology every day can be quite an experience: you can feel chills run down your spine or sensations in your body as your neurons anticipate just what it would be like to even contemplate getting your tongue torn out, or having pitch poured down your throat, or having body parts cut off, or being fed to wild beasts. Whenever I read these accounts I ask God to give me the strength to bear all these trials if I am ever called on to bear witness to the Faith. I certainly wouldn't post on social media about my future martyrdom: I only pray to God to be worthy and able if such an event comes to pass in my life.
 
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SeekingTruth

Kingfisher
It doesn't interact with your DNA or modify your genes in any way. It doesn't enter the nucleus of the cell where DNA resides exclusively.
Wrong again.

 

SeekingTruth

Kingfisher
Again, it's out there how those who are vaccinated have much milder symptoms, almost no chance of death even with co-morbidities.
Completely illogical conclusion this article has. They said it’s PROOF the vaccine is working. Did they take this same cohort and expose them to the virus WITHOUT the vaccine. No they didn’t. So it’s impossible to know if they would have been just fine without the vaccine. Making it unknown if the vaccinated actually have milder symptoms because of the vaccine and not just because, well the virus is less deadly now. Congratulations you’re a sucker for propaganda or you just have the inability to think for yourself.
 
Succinct letter with references to church teachings. This will be the basis for my religious exemption

 

P. D.

Pigeon
With all due respect to Fr. Ripperger who I admire, I know of no bishop who has said any of the vaccines are morally unacceptable. In my diocese the bishop (a Francis appointee) went out of his way to recommend it, boasting that he and his entire office had gotten vaccinated. As the ordinary, this is his proper jurisdiction and I am within rights to rely on his moral determination, even if i might disagree with his personal views and opinions on everything else. We are not expected to be expert theologians, each making his own determination of what is morally right.
You ought to be skeptical of anyone who encourages you to be the consummation of child sacrifice, regardless of what hat he wears. We live in a time of near universal apostasy and should read very carefully the statements coming from the episcopate. The Vatican's statement gives you every right to refuse the vaccine, even on moral grounds.

The Vatican's argument for the moral legitimacy of vaccine use is derived from a scientific conclusion. You are not obligated to agree with any bishop's opinion about science, not even the bishop of Rome. If the vaccine is harmful (as we are starting to see that it is), the conclusion about health goes out the window, and taking the vaccine knowing the harm that it can do becomes a sin against bodily integrity. If the vaccine doesn't prevent the spread of the virus, then out goes the argument about the common good as well. Without a positive reason, there is nothing to overcome the evils of the vaccine. The Vatican addressed some evils in its statement and is silent on the main ones, as Fr. Ripperger points out.
 

Eusebius Erasmus

Pelican
Orthodox
Yes, and since there is no genetic modification to the cell, it's not gene therapy. The vax "infects" your cells very much like a natural virus would. The difference is there is no viral genome and the mRNA instructs the cell on how to make a version of the spike protein. Whatever one wishes to name it doesn't change what it is or what it does. It doesn't interact with your DNA or modify your genes in any way. It doesn't enter the nucleus of the cell where DNA resides exclusively.

The vaccine genetically modifies your cells in order to produce spike proteins. Are you seriously suggesting that coronavirus spike proteins are normally produced by the body's cells?

Again, it's out there how those who are vaccinated have much milder symptoms, almost no chance of death even with co-morbidities.

In the Pfizer and Moderna vaccine trials, there was no difference in deaths between control and treated groups. At best, the vaccine does nothing. At worst, it harms your body with dangerous side effects.

If you're prudent, you don't accept those odds.

This is surprising from someone calling other "ignorant" and demanding citations, then you provide no citation for a Bible-based claim that is not in the Bible. Revelations 13 makes no mention of a "precursor" nor have i found this from the magisterium. I think you made it up, or at least have a very idiosyncratic interpretation.

The idea of 'types' of marks is found in Patristic tradition. If you were open-minded to this, then I'd recommend you search this forum for 'pre-cursors' to the Mark.

As successors to the Apostles the bishops are part of the magisterium and exercise teaching authority. While the Pope may speak infallibly ex cathedra, unless he does so the magisterium is authoritative. While you are certainly not obligated to take their vaccine advice, you certainly are entitled to rely on their statement of its moral permissibility in making a decision, and no Catholic is guilty of any sin for doing so, even if it is later determined it was immoral (which won't happen). But it's probably not a good idea to call Christ's representative in your diocese a "fool", even if you don't otherwise like him. I happen to not care much for our local ordinary, but I still recognize his episcopal authority on matters of faith and morals.

The magisterium is infallible only when there is 100% consensus on moral or dogmatic issues. This is not the case with the Covid vaccines. See, for example, these links:



Furthermore, the bishops and Pope cannot contradict Scripture or Church Tradition, and to the extent that abortion is prohibited by Scripture and Tradition, the bishops' claims wouldn't be infallible even under consensus.

I don't know why I, an Orthodox Christian, have to explain Catholic ecclesiology to you.

Not sure why you took it so hard that I think the vaccine was a good idea for me, and probably for most people. Like i said, i recognize anyone's right to make their own decision. But making up false narratives and distorting facts and getting nasty helps no one, nor is it necessary for you to justify your position. You decline the vaccine and that should be the end of it based on your human right to decide.

Most people take the vaccine out of fear or hedonism. In your case, it appears to be the latter; you indicated wanting to hang around with large crowds, such as in bars, clubs, and concerts. If this is the reason you took the vaccine, then repent. In either case, I suggest you learn how to think critically.
 

SoCal9705

Pigeon
Wrong again.


This article is interesting, but if anything it suggests you should get vaccinated. It reports that fragments of the covid genome got integrated into the human genome in people who had covid. The virus does not replicate from there because it only integrated portions, not the whole viral genome. But the article suggests this is the reason that pcr tests in people who had covid but are long over the symptoms nevertheless show positive PCR results - because a portion of the genome got incorporated and is still there.

This says nothing at all about the vaccine being incorporated into the genome, and with the rest of the viral genome missing from the vaccine, it seems very unlikely at best. So If anything this article suggests you should get vaccinated to avoid this possible outcome (even though it doesn't seem to be associated with anything bad). Again, the article does not suggest or imply that the vaccine integrates anything into your DNA. If someone thinks the vaccine could incorporate like the covid virus they need to at least propose the mechanism by which it would happen. (don't say the same way, because the vaccine does not contain the viral genome or enzymes).

I won't be responding any more to the rest of the gibberish others keep posting because they just ignore what was said or have a sketchy understanding of biology and simply don't understand the explanations or meaning of the terms being used. I don't blame anyone for being skeptical though, we've been lied to for decades by the very people we expected we could trust. My opinions are above and remain my opinions.
 

SeekingTruth

Kingfisher


Colorado Bishops Reject Vax Mandates, Offer to Help with Exemptions​


 
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Bird

Pelican
Guys, fasten your seat bells!

Inoculate me, God

Finally, light at the end of the tunnel! In December 2020, the news that a vaccine against Covid 19 had been developed was received like a salvation. Vaccines strengthen our body's immune system against the influence of harmful viruses.
The immune system of our soul could be called self-awareness, dignity or basic trust. The soul also needs to be protected against harmful viruses such as hatred, unkindness, humiliation, degradation, etc.
It is important to be vaccinated against Covid 19. Of just such it can be to ask God the author of our dignity for the protection of our soul, perhaps with the following words:

Inoculate me God with the serum of primordial trust,
that overcomes my fear of growing old,
of being alone and abandoned,

Inoculate me God with the substance of self-confidence,
so that I may be equal to my tasks
and see who needs me and whom I need,

Inoculate me God with cheerfulness and serenity,
so that I may comfort and be comforted in sadness,

Inoculate me God with reverence for life,
so that I may respect our brothers and sisters, the animals and plants,

Inoculate me God with the breath of love,
so that I may be at ease in the play of creatures,

Inoculate me God with bravery and courage,
so that I may oppose the extinction of habitats,
to name injustice and point out the ways of truth,

Inoculate me God with the spirit of eternity,
so that I may see the light at the end of my existence,
and find your hand on the other shore of life.


So let's take a look inside of the church where this garbage is presented

Click to load video
 

Blueboy17

Chicken
Video that went viral of Catholic priest Father Gabriel Lavery testifying at recent hearing before Ohio state legislature in support HB 248 that would essentially end vaccine mandates in Ohio.

Here Fr. Gabriel gives an excellent presentation of the moral argument *against* vaccine mandates, once again knocking it out of the park on the morality (or immorality rather) of vaccine mandates, then he redpills the House about Catholicism and Jorge Bergoglio not being a Catholic, much less a pope.

When asked about the Vatican supporting vaccines, replied that he doesn't recognize Francis as the pope:

"You have to be Catholic to be pope."

*MIC DROP*
 
If you call yourself a Catholic and get these injections then you are donating to the abortion industry almost directly. Every unused vial is a net loss for planned parenthood and their (((research))). What do you think God would say of man, who makes usury and profit and causes successions of discord through a business whose entire purpose is murdering man's own children? Forget the nano particles, forget the heavy metals, forget the carcinogens, by the basis of the blood of the unborn alone, you are a walking two-tongued liar if you take these injections and call yourself a Catholic.

Do not give in, despite what any pressure tells you. Many of the faiths will be led astray. Just ask yourself if you are ABLE and WILLING to participate in a satanic ritual, because that is what you are doing by taking these injections. You are abandoning God and Christ for worldly safety and giving in to the beast. We will all starve and thirst and freeze and burn in the agonies of the tribulations if we live to see it, but our souls are the only thing that matters then. For now, its preparing the soul to endure such punishment, and if anyone has conceded already they will likely not be able to survive the physical ravages of those days (and likely won't make it because everyone who took it will most probably die within 3 years, barring divine intervention).
 

Blade Runner

Ostrich
Orthodox
The Astra Zeneca kill shot uses the cells of a boy conceived in 1985 before he passed through the fires of the tophets. His metaphysical blood is crying out for justice somewhere and Yahweh will repay.
It is always good to remember that we should trust in God, though we are constantly tempted, because we must be faithful that He knows the direction and order of things. Yes, let us remember that

"Vengeance is mine, I will repay."

Amen.
 
The entire scamdemic is a satanic operation. If you comply in any way, you make yourself guilty before God. The few times I have put on a mask, I felt dirty. The entire thing is a big fat lie, and who is the father of all lies: If you comply with a lie, you become a child of the devil.
Furthermore, if you look what companies like Pfizer are doing, how can anyone use any product by them.
 

NoMoreTO

Hummingbird
The Astra Zeneca kill shot uses the cells of a boy conceived in 1985 before he passed through the fires of the tophets. His metaphysical blood is crying out for justice somewhere and Yahweh will repay.

Yes I was reading up on the "immortal stem cell line", the idea that these cells are replicated in an unnatural way, making this person's flesh who was murdered seemingly immortal is very strange.

Also, never forget, it was the 293rd boy. I read that they need the kid alive to take the Kidney cells. Hence HEK 293. Human Embryonic Kidney 293rd kill.

It's grave matter, and we aren't ignorant so there is no issue objecting.

If the vaxx is mandatory, then there might something in Catholicism about obeying the authority of the government. When it is "mandated" then I would consider this theology at that time. My understanding is we can still refuse on the basis of it being grave matter.
 
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