Vaccine and Catholicism

N°6

Hummingbird
Yes I was reading up on the "immortal stem cell line", the idea that these cells are replicated in an unnatural way, making this person's flesh who was murdered seemingly immortal is very strange.

Also, never forget, it was the 293rd boy. I read that they need the kid alive to take the Kidney cells. Hence HEK 293. Human Embryonic Kidney 293rd kill.

It's grave matter, and we aren't ignorant so there is no issue objecting.

If the vaxx is mandatory, then there might something in Catholicism about obeying the authority of the government. When it is "mandated" then I would consider this theology at that time. My understanding is we can still refuse on the basis of it being grave matter.

It’s even worse than I thought. If child sacrifice, theoretical cannibalism and sorcery (gk. pharmacia) isn’t enough for ecclesiastical authorities to back those invoking religious exemption rights, then it would be better to reuse church buildings as civil infrastructure depots like the early Soviets did.
 

Cartographer

Pelican
Gold Member
I'm sure there are plenty of individuals with faith but the institution seems like it's redesigned itself to push this globohomo stuff, most recently with the vax. Catholics here are either sedevecantist or waiting for the church to put them in corner with taking a shot they don't want...or some look like they're soft selling the vax and masking. I don't think a lot of non-Catholic or Orthodox denominations really qualify as Protestant in terms of protesting the abuses of the Catholic church...if (and it's not up to me to determine this) they are still Christian at all.
 

Blueboy17

Chicken
I'm sure there are plenty of individuals with faith but the institution seems like it's redesigned itself to push this globohomo stuff, most recently with the vax. Catholics here are either sedevecantist or waiting for the church to put them in corner with taking a shot they don't want...or some look like they're soft selling the vax and masking. I don't think a lot of non-Catholic or Orthodox denominations really qualify as Protestant in terms of protesting the abuses of the Catholic church...if (and it's not up to me to determine this) they are still Christian at all.
Welcome to the Great Apostasy! I’m not in the least phased by any of this stuff by the way.

Please read the following:

The Catholic Church Is A Social Miracle
 

Feyoder

Kingfisher
Yes, and since there is no genetic modification to the cell, it's not gene therapy. The vax "infects" your cells very much like a natural virus would. The difference is there is no viral genome and the mRNA instructs the cell on how to make a version of the spike protein. Whatever one wishes to name it doesn't change what it is or what it does. It doesn't interact with your DNA or modify your genes in any way. It doesn't enter the nucleus of the cell where DNA resides exclusively.


i always feel satisfied when someone calls me "ignorant" since it means they are unable to respond to the argument - implies i'm right! There's lots of info out there on breakthru infections and severity of vax vs non-vax and no, i'm not going to google it for you.



Again, it's out there how those who are vaccinated have much milder symptoms, almost no chance of death even with co-morbidities.


This is surprising from someone calling other "ignorant" and demanding citations, then you provide no citation for a Bible-based claim that is not in the Bible. Revelations 13 makes no mention of a "precursor" nor have i found this from the magisterium. I think you made it up, or at least have a very idiosyncratic interpretation.



As successors to the Apostles the bishops are part of the magisterium and exercise teaching authority. While the Pope may speak infallibly ex cathedra, unless he does so the magisterium is authoritative. While you are certainly not obligated to take their vaccine advice, you certainly are entitled to rely on their statement of its moral permissibility in making a decision, and no Catholic is guilty of any sin for doing so, even if it is later determined it was immoral (which won't happen). But it's probably not a good idea to call Christ's representative in your diocese a "fool", even if you don't otherwise like him. I happen to not care much for our local ordinary, but I still recognize his episcopal authority on matters of faith and morals.

Not sure why you took it so hard that I think the vaccine was a good idea for me, and probably for most people. Like i said, i recognize anyone's right to make their own decision. But making up false narratives and distorting facts and getting nasty helps no one, nor is it necessary for you to justify your position. You decline the vaccine and that should be the end of it based on your human right to decide.

He’s right to not even address your argument directly. What you’re saying is so obviously wrong and just plain bad—morally, healthwise, etc. Do you feel even more satisfied?
 

NoMoreTO

Ostrich
I'm sure there are plenty of individuals with faith but the institution seems like it's redesigned itself to push this globohomo stuff, most recently with the vax. Catholics here are either sedevecantist or waiting for the church to put them in corner with taking a shot they don't want...or some look like they're soft selling the vax and masking. I don't think a lot of non-Catholic or Orthodox denominations really qualify as Protestant in terms of protesting the abuses of the Catholic church...if (and it's not up to me to determine this) they are still Christian at all.

Christians are servants to God, authority is built into Christianity and Patriarchy. This authority is intrinsic in Catholicism.

Ultimately, we must be wary of false prophets, but at the same time we must obey legitimate authority when there is no reason to object.

We are mostly from the Modern West where concepts like liberty and freedom permeate our culture, and the idea of rebelling against parents, and Caesar are part of the cultural ethos. Myself, I see the englightenment and overthrow of Kings as handing us over to the oligarchs, causing great ruin upon our nations and communities.

But you are right, at its foundation, Catholics are less inclined to make their own choice and more inclined to be sheep than goats.
 

Cartographer

Pelican
Gold Member
I originally admired the consistency of his posts but I have come to believe he's just a very clever operator.
Yes, and since there is no genetic modification to the cell, it's not gene therapy. The vax "infects" your cells very much like a natural virus would. The difference is there is no viral genome and the mRNA instructs the cell on how to make a version of the spike protein. Whatever one wishes to name it doesn't change what it is or what it does. It doesn't interact with your DNA or modify your genes in any way. It doesn't enter the nucleus of the cell where DNA resides exclusively.
It's easy to use the detailed, state-sponsored, scientific language to make yourself look knowledgeable. The theories and assumptions here may have peer-reviewed support, or be the scientific institutional position for whatever that's worth but what you're really doing is thinking past the sale that there's a pandemic in the first place and all one need do is choose to accept or deny the science.

My counter to this is that research is dependent on grants and naturally ends up favoring partisan positions which are always more definite while the true scientific process is always too ambiguous for any leadership element to use effectively. I was listening to Vincent Racaniello's podcasts when the covid thing started and it's pretty telling how he nipped in the bud any of his peers who questioned the foundational assumptions of the pandemic.

i always feel satisfied when someone calls me "ignorant" since it means they are unable to respond to the argument - implies i'm right! There's lots of info out there on breakthru infections and severity of vax vs non-vax and no, i'm not going to google it for you.
And I'm sure we could spin though the interminable arguments for years while you sit there feeling "satisfied" which sure seems like a modernist way to say that you sit smugly in the seat of the scoffer.

Again, it's out there how those who are vaccinated have much milder symptoms, almost no chance of death even with co-morbidities.
Just like people who aren't vaccinated.

As successors to the Apostles the bishops are part of the magisterium and exercise teaching authority.
Aren't bishops more often appointed by governments for political reasons these days with just the barest nod to the idea that they are part of the Apostolic succession?

While the Pope may speak infallibly ex cathedra, unless he does so the magisterium is authoritative. While you are certainly not obligated to take their vaccine advice, you certainly are entitled to rely on their statement of its moral permissibility in making a decision, and no Catholic is guilty of any sin for doing so, even if it is later determined it was immoral (which won't happen). But it's probably not a good idea to call Christ's representative in your diocese a "fool", even if you don't otherwise like him. I happen to not care much for our local ordinary, but I still recognize his episcopal authority on matters of faith and morals.

Not sure why you took it so hard that I think the vaccine was a good idea for me, and probably for most people. Like i said, i recognize anyone's right to make their own decision. But making up false narratives and distorting facts and getting nasty helps no one, nor is it necessary for you to justify your position. You decline the vaccine and that should be the end of it based on your human right to decide.
You're right, Christ warned us not to call anyone a fool.

It's one thing to acknowledge free speech but if anyone's supporting false narratives it's you. In countries where the right to dissent has been effectively circumvented, oppression has just snowballed. Your soft compromise rhetoric, which seems to be that you're just making a sound medical decision and people who disagree vocally should just state their (actually ignorant) opinion and shut up nullifies the claim that you oppose coercion because the only thing stopping mandatory vax's in the US is the visible public opposition to that kind of state control. Vaccine theory already contains the idea that everyone has to do it or it doesn't work so choosing that side is choosing mandates.

I can't see your thoughts but to me your posts make you seem like a determined fence-straddler.
 

NoMoreTO

Ostrich
The risk to health is so low to young people, there is no grave concern for a Catholic with respect to the illness. It is just a bad flu.

Where I feel we are is that if vaccines are mandated, or a father who supports his family may lose his job, and be unable to feed his children, then is he placed under enough pressure that it may be justifiable for him to take the not vaxx.

Myself I am single and have decent finances, so I just see no need. Plus it's important for people to be united against it. I couldn't imagine that filth going in my arm.
 

SeekingTruth

Kingfisher
The risk to health is so low to young people, there is no grave concern for a Catholic with respect to the illness. It is just a bad flu.

Where I feel we are is that if vaccines are mandated, or a father who supports his family may lose his job, and be unable to feed his children, then is he placed under enough pressure that it may be justifiable for him to take the not vaxx.

Myself I am single and have decent finances, so I just see no need. Plus it's important for people to be united against it. I couldn't imagine that filth going in my arm.
You would think there would be a plethora of jobs still available that require less skill but would still be able to provide enough money to feed a family. This would require being humble if you’re highly skilled with a good wage. Getting rid of all your new cars. Downsizing your home, etc.

At what point would you say, “okay I’ve exhausted all of my options. Give me that dirty needle.” I can’t see that ever happening unless out of complete mental fatigue. Stay strong.
 

NoMoreTO

Ostrich
ArchBishop Vigano: Link
“It is disconcerting to see how all political forces, including the ones you might have expected to oppose the establishment of this health dictatorship, have become accomplices of an elite of criminal conspirators,” he said, “rulers, magistrates, police forces, doctors and scientists, public and private officials, journalists, but also bishops and priests, and the Vatican leaders themselves.”



Speech

And to get out of the labyrinth, dear friends, it is necessary to look at things with a look that is not limited to single facts, but sees them all in a broader framework, in which the pandemic is a social engineering tool artfully provoked with the aim to take us to the green pass, to total control, to the limitation of natural and constitutional freedoms in the name of a Great Reset that none of us want, that no one has ever asked us to vote, which concentrates power and wealth in the hands of an elite — that of the “philanthrocapitalists” like Gates and Soros — and who consider the rest of humanity as a reservoir of slaves and customers, to whom to give that minimum of money — created out of nothing and which weighs on them as a debt — that it serves to allow them to buy the goods that this elite produces; goods produced with cheap labor, of course, forced to do everything to survive. While he prepares to sell us air, water and sunlight,...
 
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