We waz Vikangz: The Myth that won't die

Hannibal said:
Nowak said:
The point of this thread is to kill the myth that the alt right and some in the manosphere believe that the vikings were something close to Godly, they were no better or no worse than others in Europe. They were certainly much more egalitarian culturally.

What we know of the Vikings as cultural egalitarians is generally just guesswork and it's guesswork done by the kinds of people who go into soft sciences like archaeology;

Hmm. I bet these people score higher on an IQ test than you

midwit level retards who can secure student loans.

I have degrees in social science, engineering, and life science, and have worked in academia for years. This is typically not the case. Most people with Ph.D.s get paid to obtain them and these are the people you attempt to bash. In fact, many research archaeologists and anthropologists start around 80-90k a year



Read about any old culture and take a shot every time they write "religious ritual" and you'll be fucking dead after a couple paragraphs.



Have any evidence of this from a peer reviewed journal? Scientists do not write in the way you suggest. You are getting your scientific information from the media. The media fucks up science on a regular basis



These are the same kinds of people who deduced that European women from the Bronze age were "key to exploration" based on the fact that her skeletal remains were found 300 miles from her birth place. :tard:

http://www.iflscience.com/editors-b...hanging-cultural-ideas-as-men-stayed-at-home/

You cited a news article. Not the paper. Don't get mad at the scientists because you cited a news article. Also, these people used some very advanced scientific methods from "hard" science. I don't think you know what you are talking about (here is the paper): http://www.shh.mpg.de/607527/mobile-women


The fact that an American history class 30 years ago sounds so much different than one taken today tells me that historians, archaeologists, and all people involved with recording how people lived their lives have an axe to grind and an agenda to push.

When was the last time that you took an American History class?



So color me skeptical when it comes to any historical claims on gender roles or cultural phenomenon or what-have-you on cultures that didn't write shit down, especially ones that have been dead for so long they can't argue.


After examining your purported facts, I am skeptical of everything you write.


 
Hannibal said:
spydersuit said:
People from most religions try to find meaning and evidence for their beliefs in their experiences or in the physical environment.

I've never had a Christian guy try to convert me by saying that God wrote "Jesus is Lord" in the seashells on the shore or that the science in the Bible was not only sound, but hundreds/thousands of years ahead of its time.

I have, however, ran into several members of another faith who try to convince me with either argument.

You need to get out more often then
 

Mage

 
spydersuit said:
Hannibal said:
Nowak said:
The point of this thread is to kill the myth that the alt right and some in the manosphere believe that the vikings were something close to Godly, they were no better or no worse than others in Europe. They were certainly much more egalitarian culturally.

What we know of the Vikings as cultural egalitarians is generally just guesswork and it's guesswork done by the kinds of people who go into soft sciences like archaeology;

Hmm. I bet these people score higher on an IQ test than you

midwit level retards who can secure student loans.

I have degrees in social science, engineering, and life science, and have worked in academia for years. This is typically not the case. Most people with Ph.D.s get paid to obtain them and these are the people you attempt to bash. In fact, many research archaeologists and anthropologists start around 80-90k a year



Read about any old culture and take a shot every time they write "religious ritual" and you'll be fucking dead after a couple paragraphs.



Have any evidence of this from a peer reviewed journal? Scientists do not write in the way you suggest. You are getting your scientific information from the media. The media fucks up science on a regular basis



These are the same kinds of people who deduced that European women from the Bronze age were "key to exploration" based on the fact that her skeletal remains were found 300 miles from her birth place. :tard:

http://www.iflscience.com/editors-b...hanging-cultural-ideas-as-men-stayed-at-home/

You cited a news article. Not the paper. Don't get mad at the scientists because you cited a news article. Also, these people used some very advanced scientific methods from "hard" science. I don't think you know what you are talking about (here is the paper): http://www.shh.mpg.de/607527/mobile-women


The fact that an American history class 30 years ago sounds so much different than one taken today tells me that historians, archaeologists, and all people involved with recording how people lived their lives have an axe to grind and an agenda to push.

When was the last time that you took an American History class?



So color me skeptical when it comes to any historical claims on gender roles or cultural phenomenon or what-have-you on cultures that didn't write shit down, especially ones that have been dead for so long they can't argue.


After examining your purported facts, I am skeptical of everything you write.





Hey professor with high IQ and lifetime in academia! How about you learn to format your post and quotes correctly?
 

Atlanta Man

Ostrich
Gold Member
nomadbrah said:
In before Atlanta Man joins to tell us all of his love of white women.

602e6fba7d044bb62d784d67e0e2760d--viking-dress-medieval-dress.jpg
You know how I feel about white women.....
 

cascadecombo

Ostrich
Mage said:
cascadecombo said:
Mage said:
My response on the contrary indicates that I am familiar with both sides of argument and can tell to which side each argument leads.


No it doesn't, it sounded angry and bitter and showed an unwillingness for a discussion. Meanwhile op put points down and provided evidence. Unlike your low energy response.

Ok, I understand you are not the type of audience who needs truth or irony. You need warm emotions and smiles and high energy to feel good about the message.

My bad, I forgot to game you. Indeed I should have known better, the game never stops. I promise I will try to be more positive and more feelings oriented with you in future.

Here, I give you this box of chocolate my friend :gift2:. may you only encounter good posts on internet, sweet like this chocolate.

:grouphug:

unwillingness for a discussion.

Giving chocolates is for beta fags.
 

Aurini

Ostrich
Nowak said:
Hannibal said:
I'm not sure what the point of this thread is.

The point of this thread is to kill the myth that the alt right and some in the manosphere believe that the vikings were something close to Godly, they were no better or no worse than others in Europe. They were certainly much more egalitarian culturally.

Many in the Alt Right is so thirsty for daddy's approval that even if you proved to them that the Vikings were the first feminists, all they'd do is then embrace Feminism, and denounce Gamergate as a conspiracy started by Sargon of Akkad to dethrone m'lady Sarkeesian.
 

Hannibal

Ostrich
Gold Member
spydersuit said:
Hannibal said:
What we know of the Vikings as cultural egalitarians is generally just guesswork and it's guesswork done by the kinds of people who go into soft sciences like archaeology;

Hmm. I bet these people score higher on an IQ test than you

Anything is possible.

midwit level retards who can secure student loans.

I have degrees in social science, engineering, and life science, and have worked in academia for years. This is typically not the case. Most people with Ph.D.s get paid to obtain them and these are the people you attempt to bash. In fact, many research archaeologists and anthropologists start around 80-90k a year

I have degrees in physics, mathematics and mechanical engineering and I've spent a long enough time in academia to know that the soft sciences are soft for a reason. That's the first time I've ever mentioned my credentials on the forum because I do not feel the need to wave my dick around.

Precisely, my lettered chum. The people with Ph.D's get paid to obtain them. What better way to get paid to "discover" history than to put a progressive spin on old news? What might have been a dissertation on the first use of the submarine in American warfare is now a breakdown of gender roles in colonial society. The favored target for all the progressive shit are cultures and societies that never wrote anything down.



Read about any old culture and take a shot every time they write "religious ritual" and you'll be fucking dead after a couple paragraphs.

Have any evidence of this from a peer reviewed journal? Scientists do not write in the way you suggest. You are getting your scientific information from the media. The media fucks up science on a regular basis

"Scientists" also fuck up their "scientific information" on a regular basis as well. I'm sure you've heard of the "replication crisis".

These are the same kinds of people who deduced that European women from the Bronze age were "key to exploration" based on the fact that her skeletal remains were found 300 miles from her birth place. :tard:

http://www.iflscience.com/editors-b...hanging-cultural-ideas-as-men-stayed-at-home/

You cited a news article. Not the paper. Don't get mad at the scientists because you cited a news article. Also, these people used some very advanced scientific methods from "hard" science. I don't think you know what you are talking about (here is the paper): http://www.shh.mpg.de/607527/mobile-women

Sure I cited the news article. What you posted says the same thing. Hilariously, what you posted also does not contain the article in question. From what I can gather, there isn't a public version of the text. There isn't even an abstract.

http://pubman.mpdl.mpg.de/pubman/faces/viewItemOverviewPage.jsp?itemId=escidoc:2475207:1

All you get is the title of "Female exogamy and gene pool diversification at the transition from the final neolithic to the early Bronze Age in central Europe" and that's it.

To answer your comment on the "advanced methods from hard science", a retard with a super computer is still a retard.


The fact that an American history class 30 years ago sounds so much different than one taken today tells me that historians, archaeologists, and all people involved with recording how people lived their lives have an axe to grind and an agenda to push.

When was the last time that you took an American History class?

2011, and I passed with an A because I took the stance that everything the white man ever did was wrong and oppressive. Easiest A I ever got to be honest. I distinctly remember getting 100% on one exam because I said that women were oppressed because they had to stay at home and take care of children. My professor was a feminist woman and it's common practice to tailor your essays to the prejudices of the professor.


So color me skeptical when it comes to any historical claims on gender roles or cultural phenomenon or what-have-you on cultures that didn't write shit down, especially ones that have been dead for so long they can't argue.


After examining your purported facts and I am skeptical of everything you write.

I don't care.

I also do not expect you to have the same viewpoint about academia as I do, as you've said that you were employed in academia. Butter meet bread.

Response in red.
 

Zona

Sparrow
Hannibal said:
The one article about "Allah" written into some clothes that were found at a Viking burial sounds like bullshit to me. The article states that "Allah" and "Ali" can be read from the clothes if you read their reflection from a mirror. What is it, the fucking Davinci code?

Here's the inscription
ring-1.JPG


Here's the ring they found a couple years back

ninth-century-ring.jpg


and this is the pattern they're claiming to also see "For Allah" in

Textiles-when-examined.jpg


Draw your own conclusion. The ring is obviously an inscription, but the pattern in the clothes I just do not see.

Were Viking and Muslim cultures in contact? Arguably, but it's not like the Norse were praying to Mecca five times a day. The Moors showed up in Spain in the 700's and the Vikings attacked about a century later, so it's not outside the realm of possibility that some ideas were borrowed. The Vikings were not terribly successful in Spain, nor did they spend a lot of time there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viking_raid_on_Seville

Given that all we know about Viking paganism was written by Snorri Sturluson centuries after that event, it's possible that ideas were taken from Islam.

I'm not sure what the point of this thread is.

Henrik at Red Ice did a great takedown of this bullshit:


Just more leftist propaganda to convince modern whites, particularly those of Germanic stock, that even our ancestors were all about muh diversity and inclusiveness.
 

Belgrano

Ostrich
Gold Member
Hannibal said:
The one article about "Allah" written into some clothes that were found at a Viking burial sounds like bullshit to me.

Were Viking and Muslim cultures in contact? Arguably, but it's not like the Norse were praying to Mecca five times a day. The Moors showed up in Spain in the 700's and the Vikings attacked about a century later, so it's not outside the realm of possibility that some ideas were borrowed. The Vikings were not terribly successful in Spain, nor did they spend a lot of time there.

Few people know about the real extent of the viking voyages, raids and expeditions.

For example:

The Caspian expeditions of the Rus' were military raids undertaken by the Rus' between 864 and 1041 on the Caspian Sea shores, of what are nowadays Iran, Dagestan, and Azerbaijan. Initially, the Rus' appeared in Serkland in the 9th century traveling as merchants along the Volga trade route, selling furs, honey, and slaves. The first small-scale raids took place in the late 9th and early 10th century. The Rus' undertook the first large-scale expedition in 913; having arrived on 500 ships, they pillaged in the Gorgan region, in the territory of present-day Iran, and more to the west, in Gilan and Mazandaran, taking slaves and goods. On their return, the northern raiders were attacked and defeated by the Khazars in the Volga Delta, and those who escaped were killed by the local tribes on the middle Volga.

During their next expedition in 943, the Rus' captured Bardha'a, the capital of Arran, in the modern-day Republic of Azerbaijan. The Rus' stayed there for several months, killing many inhabitants of the city and amassing substantial plunder. It was only an outbreak of dysentery among the Rus' that forced them to depart with their spoils. Sviatoslav, prince of Kiev, commanded the next attack, which destroyed the Khazar state in 965. Sviatoslav's campaign established the Rus's hold on the north-south trade routes, helping to alter the demographics of the region. Raids continued through the time period with the last Scandinavian attempt to reestablish the route to the Caspian Sea taking place in 1041 by Ingvar the Far-Travelled.

The Rus' first penetrated to the Muslim areas adjacent to the Caspian Sea as traders rather than warriors. Small groups of the Rus' even went on camels as far as Baghdad to sell their goods; their European slaves interpreted for them. Thomas Schaub Noonan suggested that the Rus' reached Baghdad as early as 800; this argument is supported by the finding of Sassanid, Arab, and Arabo-Sassanid dirham coins dated no later than 804–805 at Peterhof, near Saint-Petersburg.

The first Caspian raid of the Rus' occurred sometime in the reign of Hasan ibn Zaid, ruler of Tabaristan between 864 and 884. The Rus' sailed into the Caspian Sea and unsuccessfully attacked its eastern shore at Abaskun. This raid was probably on a very small scale.

The Rus' launched the first large-scale raid in 913. A fleet of 500 ships reached the southern shores of the Caspian Sea through the country of the Khazars. In order to secure a peaceful passage through the land of the Khazars, the Rus' promised the Khazars half of their spoils. They sailed down the Dnieper River into the Black Sea, then into the Sea of Azov, then up the Don River past the Khazar city of Sarkel, and then by a portage reached the Volga, which led them into the Caspian Sea.

The Rus' attacked in the Gorgan region around Abaskun, as well as Tabaristan, pillaging the countrysides as they went. An attempt to repel them as they lay in anchor near islands in the southwestern part of the Caspian Sea proved unsuccessful; and they were then able to roam and raid at will. Across the sea they raided at Baku, penetrating inland a distance of three days' journey, and plundering the regions of Arran, Tabaristan, Beylagan, and Shirvan. Everywhere they looted as much as they could, taking women and children as slaves. The news of their outrages preceded them as they headed homeward and, in the Volga Delta, the Rus' were attacked by Khazars, as well as by some Christians, apparently with the acquiescence of the Khazar ruler. According to al-Masudi, those who escaped were finished off by the Burtas and Volga Bulgars.

The second large-scale campaign is dated to 943, when Igor was the supreme leader of the Rus', according to the Primary Chronicle. During the 943 expedition, the Rus' rowed up the Kura River, deep into the Caucasus, defeated the forces of Marzuban bin Muhammad, and captured Bardha'a, the capital of Arran. The Rus' allowed the local people to retain their religion in exchange for recognition of their overlordship; it is possible that the Rus' intended to settle permanently there. According to ibn Miskawaih, the local people broke the peace by stone-throwing and other abuse directed against the Rus', who then demanded that the inhabitants evacuate the city. This ultimatum was rejected, and the Rus' began killing people and holding many for ransom. The slaughter was briefly interrupted for negotiations, which soon broke down. The Rus' stayed in Bardha'a for several months, using it as a base for plundering the adjacent areas, and amassed substantial spoils.

The city was saved only by an outbreak of dysentery among the Rus'. Ibn Miskawaih writes that the Rus' "indulged excessively in the fruit of which there are numerous sorts there. This produced an epidemic among them . . . and their numbers began thereby to be reduced." Encouraged by the epidemic among the Rus', the Muslims approached the city. The Rus', their chief riding on a donkey, made an unsuccessful sally after which they lost 700 warriors, but evaded encirclement and retreated to the Bardha'a fortress, where they were besieged by the Muslims. Exhausted by the disease and the siege, the Rus' "left by night the fortress in which they had established their quarters, carrying on their backs all they could of their treasure, gems, and fine raiment, boys and girls as they wanted, and made for the Kura River, where the ships in which they had issued from their home were in readiness with their crews, and 300 Russes whom they had been supporting with portions of their booty." The Muslims then exhumed from the Rus' graves the weapons that had been buried beside the warriors.

George Vernadsky proposed that Oleg of Novgorod was the donkey-riding chief of the Rus' who attacked Bardha'a. Vernadsky identified Oleg with Helgu, a figure mentioned in the Schechter Letter. According to that document, Helgu went to Persia by boat and died there after a failed attack on Constantinople in 941. On the other hand, Lev Gumilev, drawing on the name of the Rus' leader (as recorded in Arabian sources), hypothesizes that this leader was Sveneld, a Varangian chieftain whose wealth was noted in the Primary Chronicle under 945.

In 965, Sviatoslav I of Kiev finally went to war against Khazaria. Ibn Hawqal is the only author who reports the sack of Semender, after which the Rus' departed for "Rûm and al-Andaluz".

In 1030, the Rus' raided the region of Shirvan; the ruler of Ganja then paid them much money to help suppress a revolt in Beylagan. Afterwards, the Rus' returned home.

Pritsak also speculated that the Rus', operating from the Caspian basin, shortly thereafter lent support to the Oghuz in a power struggle in Khwarezm (modern day Uzbekistan/Turkmenistan).

In 1042 Ingvar the Far-Travelled led an unsuccessful large Viking attack against Persia with a fleet of 200 ships (around 15-20 thousand men). His inscriptions claim that he launched expeditions against the barbarian Saracens and further tried to reach the East, the Greater India to establish trade links.

This expedition was launched from Sweden by Ingvar the Far-Travelled, who went down the Volga into the land of the Saracens (Serkland in Norse). There are no less than twenty-six Ingvar Runestones, twenty-three of them being in the Lake Mälaren region of Uppland in Sweden, referring to Swedish warriors who went out with Ingvar on his expedition to the Saracen lands, an expedition whose purpose was probably to reopen old trade routes, now that the Bulgars and the Khazars no longer proved obstacles. A stone to Ingvar's brother indicates that he went east for gold but that he died in the Saracen land.

See also:

While connections between the Norse and Eastern Islamic lands (particularly around the Caspian) were well-established (in the form of the Rus') along the Volga, relations with the Western edge of Islam were more sporadic and haphazard. In Islamic Iberia, the first navy of the Emirate of Córdoba was built after the humiliating Viking ascent of the Guadalquivir in 844 when they sacked Seville. Nevertheless, in 859, Danish pirates sailed through Gibraltar and raided the little Moroccan state of Nekor. The king's harem had to be ransomed back by the emir of Córdoba. These and other raids prompted a shipbuilding program at the dockyards of Seville. The Andalusian navy was thenceforth employed to patrol the Iberian coastline under the caliphs Abd-ar-Rahman III (912–961) and Al-Hakam II (961–976). Córdoba was too heavily defended to be considered a target for all but the most ambitious Vikings.

In 844 the Vikings attacked Al-Andalus, the administrative area of the Iberian Peninsula ruled by Muslims. They sacked Lisbon, Cádiz and Medina Sidonia, and then captured Seville.

In 860, a new fleet of sixty-two ships led by Hastein and Björn Ironside attacked Galicia (northwestern Spain), the Portuguese shores and Sevilla. The fleet then crossed over to Africa and sacked Nekor.

The well-known Harald Hardrada would also serve the Byzantine emperor in Palestine as well as raiding North Africa, the Middle East as far east as Armenia, and the island of Sicily in the 11th century, as recounted in his saga in Snorri Sturluson's Heimskringla.

Evidence for Norse ventures into Arabia and Central Asia can be found in runestones erected in Scandinavia by the relatives of fallen Viking adventurers. Several of these refer to men who died in "Serkland" (Arabia).


In particular, Arab scholars such as Ibn-Fadlan recount Norse trade expeditions to Baghdad, a major center of the Islamic world. Indeed, one of the only detailed accounts of a Viking burial come from Ibn-Fadlan's account. At times this trading relationship would break down into violence – Rus' armadas raided in the Caspian on at least three occasions, in 910, 912 and 943.

So, as we can see, rings with Arabic inscriptions or clothes with Arabic patterns would be anything but a surprise. Vikings got around, and traded even further.
They returned from the Persian and Arab lands with loot, slaves and other goods.

Women back then were just like women today, it is very possible that they took a liking to the fancy clothes and garments from the exotic lands and cosmopolitan cities of the Middle East that their men brought back from their voyages. They probably copied some popular patterns, and passed those down the generations. Vikings could even have run around for centuries with "Allahu Akbar" written all over their clothes, without anybody noticing or giving a fuck.
Sure, there might have been the rare guy who came into contact with Islam and converted, but in general it really doesn't mean anything.
 

Kona

Crow
Gold Member
I got an opinion about the Vikings. My method for formulating this opinion is from the research I did dealing with the Volvo corporation of Sweden, as well as watching million dollar listing ny on bravotv.

In season 2 of mdlny (Million Dollar Listing New York) Fredrick Eklund sits down for cocktails with Luis Ortiz. He claims that his ability to drink a lot, as well as his ability to sell lots of condos in NYC is because of his Viking warrior heritage.

Fun fact about Fredrick, prior to being a real estate agent he was a gay porn star. Take a look:
elkthehole.jpg


Now, we come to Volvo. A proud Swedish company run by the descendants of Viking warriors. I had an issue with one of their products. Members if their technical support staff, Mohammed, Mohammed, Ahmed, and Mohammed worked very hard to help me . When the issue wasn't resolved, I had to go up the ladder to Mohammed, Ahmed, and Mohammed in management.

So my point is, maybe the Vikings were real tough and cool dudes. Sadly, however, their legacy has been disgraced.

The Cleveland Browns have lost every game this year. I doubt there are many people in that organization that say "oh well, look at how great we used to be!"

I understand being proud of your heritage, but if you currently suck ass, focus on that, not the old days.

Aloha!
 

Mage

 
Kona said:
I understand being proud of your heritage, but if you currently suck ass, focus on that, not the old days.

Aloha!

Focus on sucking ass? Do you hear yourself? It's a nice Freudian slip - you don't really want them whites and particularly Scandinavians to succeed that much and just play giving advice sounding practical but actually being harmful.

You are right about working on present and improving yourself in present, but human psyche is built in such a way that the past is the foundation on which to build. If your own past and youth is full with blue pill mistakes and regretful actions and humiliations from more privileged or "protected" classes and feminized superiors, if your parents and grandparents are consumerist baby boomer people who have nothing to be proud about then at least you can look at your ancient ancestors and get inspired by them.

Don't be mistaken those who attack past do so because they have knowledge that you cannot build future without past. Convince a person or a race that they were inferior and that there is nothing great about their history - and you will ensure they will stay on that level in future.

The ancient people themselves understood this and therefore they had these fantastical warrior myths. Raise a man believing his ancestors were Hercules or Siegfried. Raise another man believing his ancestors were like Homer Simpson. Do you expect the same result?
 

Hell_Is_Like_Newark

Kingfisher
Gold Member
The Vikings also worked as mercenaries (Varangians) for the Roman Empire (Byzantine). It makes sense that the Vikings would have war booty from Islamic, Persian, and other cultures in Southern Europe, Mideast, etc.
 
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