What Are The Biggest Red Flags When Courting?

messaggera

Pelican
Woman
Other Christian
Noted. If that’s what you got from it well, okay ..

She is married and in the field of psychology for what it’s worth.

Thanks for sharing Despoina.
It was an interesting site to visit. Standard Biblical living information.
Found the site's purpose appeared to be profit / selling subscribers' contact through business outreach?

It's pure propaganda down to the picture from a Clockwork Orange. I guess MissTrad saw that movie?

Not only the article but the mask (sponsored?) advertisements / narrative on the site too.

articles like these tend to paint a picture that all men are predators and are no better than feminist articles that promote a war of the sexes.

Agree.
The article came off a little jaded, and seemed to be divisive. Hopefully the field in psychology was not at a level of counseling.
 

fortyfive

Kingfisher
Other Christian
As I'm writing this, am eating a fish. I checked that fish before eating it for bones and removed all I could find, but there were others, well hidden, as I found later.
Was I surprised? No. Almost all fish have bones. I'm eating fish despite this nuisance.

And you will find that people have not only bones but red flags and a lot of skeletons in the closet too. Anyone has some, including me.

Then, if you are not engaged yet, try to avoid fish with a lot of sharp bones, when they are clearly visible, but be aware of the fact. that you'll find some later anyway. And they will be a pain in the throat. But you will digest them eventually if you persist.

And those who are married and now are experiencing "buyer remorse"?
Except for infidelity, we are not allowed to abandon ship. And that's right.
Imagine sailing with a captain who would tell you: "well, I'm captain only for sunny weather and shining deck. If a storm arises on the horizon, or I'll find some rust underdeck, am leaving even in the middle of the ocean immediately."

Boarding such a ship would be foolish. Especially a man, shouldn't be a captain coward.

But, both sexes will experience eventually storms, uncover hidden rust, and will be in doubt about the ship and journey.

This is earth, not heaven yet.
 

pureblood

Sparrow
Orthodox
After reading through this thread, I reflected back on the title. I believe a more appropriate title would be, " What men and women find annoying about the opposite sex" Technically, it's a list of all the negatives and poor choices made by individuals when choosing a spouse.


images.jpg
 

Stoyan

Pelican
Orthodox
Without reading any of the responses, here are some red flags or turn offs.

For both men and women:

  • liberal, atheist, technocratic, or statist ideology
  • any amount of consumerism or "dumb Amerikos" mentality
  • not culturally, spiritually, or morally conservative in general
  • unwise and reckless, no street smarts
  • unable or unwilling to follow opsec principles to ensure the survival of the family in a hostile society
  • being more devoted to the regime or ideology rather than the family, sign of a possible traitor
  • normie or blue pilled person, a conformist who follows the current thing
  • trusting society and the political establishment too much, a loyal citizen to a fault
  • loving electronic gadgets too much, having an obsession with phones or video games
  • having profiles on Instragram, TikTok, OnlyFans, or any other such degenerate social media sites
  • listening to rap, hip hop, heavy metal, or other "western" music
  • promiscous mentality, having any amount of unfruitful sex (sex without intention to produce children) in the past
  • participating in extramarital relationships
  • any amount of fornication in general
  • addictions, substance abuse, junk food, porn, and gambling
  • unable to control oneself, no discipline
  • lying, cheating, manipulative
  • party mentality, not being a prepper
  • general non-conservative appearance: tattoos, piercings, dyed hair, heavy makeup, weird clothing, etc.
  • not being able to respect and appreciate my culture/religion/nationality/ethnicity
  • not open minded, a debunker, fact checker, or trust authorities too much
  • trusts the western "medical establishment industrial complex", rejects alternative medicine
  • too much drugs, pills, or vaxxines in the bloodstream
  • trusts institutions in general too much, blue pilled about beurocracy
  • being unable to discuss social theories, name calling "tinfoil hatters"
  • being too closed up, unable to have a good discussion or advice
  • not being able to listen attentively
  • not wanting children, or not knowing how to care for children
  • trusting the children to other people or to society, delegates child care to babysitters
  • treating the children as dolls or pets, rather than as thinking individuals
  • not wanting or not being able to work in the garden/yard
  • lack of wise budgeting, or spending money carelessly
  • crazy mood swings, extreme temper, or abusive
  • mental illnesses or mental abnormalities
  • current or previous participation in occultism or sorcery
  • lack of proper personal hygiene, lack of proper bathroom and kitchen hygiene
  • needs to be right all the time in arguments, "my way or the highway" mentality, unable to compromise
  • acting like an annoying "smart ass"
  • too much personal pride in general
  • teasing, belittling, mocking, or ridiculing
  • doesn't have a "family first" mentality
  • vulgar language, swearing, cursing, no proper manners
  • overweight or obese
  • destructive self harm habits
  • unable to accept feedback, getting defensive
  • having too many health problems or disabilities
  • having any debt
  • disrespecting elders, disrespecting tradition
  • unable to appreciate the beauty of nature, or preferring urban areas

For men specifically;

  • womanizer or player
  • spiritually weak, effeminate, soy man, "wishy washy" pushover
  • lazy, unmotivated couch potato
  • alcoholic or druggie
  • disordered, not organized slob
  • night owl, habitual willingly insomnia
  • unable to discipline children properly, either too careless or too overbearing, inconsistent discipline
  • unable to find a common language with his wife and children, resorting to authoritarian tactics
  • poor performance at his job, low salary, low earning potential, no career ambition
  • not hustling in general, having "all the time in the world" mentality, no concrete achievements
  • not wanting to improve himself, or work on himself, resulting in stagnation
  • not wanting to do at least some workout or take his health into his own hands
  • general aversion towards exercise
  • not having the strategic mindset for the family
  • not being the protector of the family, not only physically, but also spiritually and societally
  • not being red pilled about all the dangers of the society against his family
  • not enforcing traditional values in the family
  • being too lax with letting western/liberal/worldly cultural influences penetrate into the family
  • being devoted to worldly things too much, such as superheroes
  • being a chronic doomer or pessimist
  • not having any discipline, no time management skills
  • unable to manage his wife and kids wisely
  • not having any sense of duty, honor, or obligations
  • being not proud for his ancestors, not caring about history or philosophy
  • delegating all major life decisions to his wife, indecisive
  • not being able or willing to educate his children, teach them, give them wise advice
  • wimpy mentality, allowing himself and his family to be tread upon
  • not being based, not being vigilant, not being hard core
  • wearing a T shirt
  • having a beer belly
  • not having a driver's license

For women specifically:

  • is a feminist, liberal, or anything remotely resembling that
  • gossiping, talking on the phone, talking about the lives of other people all day long
  • taking the phone everywhere with her, unable to go anywhere without the phone
  • talking too much in general, being annoying, no restraint
  • thinking more about other people than about the family
  • cosmopolitan mindset
  • showing up practically nude (wearing bikini, yoga pants, etc) in public, especially for other men
  • not caring for appearance
  • using toxic chemicals for personal appearance such as hair dye, makeup, various fragrances
  • not being able to willing to cook, or at least learn how to cook
  • lazy, unable to be the housewife
  • disobedient, disregarding husband's words, unable to accept advice, "do what thou wilt" mentality
  • worshipping celebrities
  • obsessed with fashion, careless shopping, restaurants and trips
  • proud, arrogant, and vain
  • not humble
  • prefers a career at the expense of family, or instead of family
  • too beautiful (is correlated with promiscous lifestyle, it is harder to keep such a woman)
  • not feminine, imitation of masculine, vulgar, rude, and crude, not sophisticated
  • having the mentality of attitude of a "stereotypical Karen"
  • too helpless, can't do anything by herself
  • vindicative and viscous
  • not a virgin for the wrong reasons
  • aloof, closed in, like a statue
  • restless eyes always looking for another man
  • not telling her husband the truth about where she is going
  • not abiding by traditional gender roles
 
Last edited:

Stoyan

Pelican
Orthodox
It probably doesn’t need to be said, common sense, but of course assuming the parents are functioning reasonably kind people certainly you are looking for a man with a good relationship with them. If they are not those things, a man with a more stand-offish approach is reasonable and I think preferred. In any case, if you and the man you are courting have different viewpoints about your parents and about his, that is a red flag. Be in agreement so you can be a team, a unit together not finding yourself alone on one side while he walks over to his mother pitting you against them.
Good post.

Yes men, when you are courting a girl, you are also courting her parents as well. You need to make sure that you can have a good relationship with her parents, that they will be kind, accepting, and helpful to you. I believe in the "extended" family, where mom, dad, kids, grandfathers, and grandmothers all live under the same roof. So you should watch out for red flags in her parents as well. Can you get along with them, as a family?
 

MrsD

Pigeon
Woman
Orthodox
Good post.

Yes men, when you are courting a girl, you are also courting her parents as well. You need to make sure that you can have a good relationship with her parents, that they will be kind, accepting, and helpful to you. I believe in the "extended" family, where mom, dad, kids, grandfathers, and grandmothers all live under the same roof. So you should watch out for red flags in her parents as well. Can you get along with them, as a family?
Thank you.

Yes, I agree. Ideally what you described is what to look for. All family members under the same roof would be a nightmare for my husband and I because our parents are not any of the good things you listed. Mine used to be okay, kind of, then I married, and everything went nuclear explosions because I became Orthodox and also my parents are deeply codependent etc.

Consequently, life has indeed been hard sometimes as we are very much on our own, but it is all in God’s Providence. We are at least fully on the same page in the matter and also understand each other pretty deeply due to these commonalities. However, as I say, it is not ideal. We both would rather have had helpful Christian (not just nominally so) parents but this was not God’s will for us no matter how hard we tried. Especially in our newlywed years it was emotionally painful to real there were things we would never gain from married life, such as happy memories with in-laws.

Maybe there are still families who live in the mode you suggest, Stoyan; however I do not know any with the exception of people who have taken in a shut in, infirm elderly parent. I’m in my early forties so I’ve seen a fair amount of couples and families. I think even finding in-laws who are kind, accepting, helpful could be difficult. Society has gone downhill so terribly. However this is only my experience and I pray you and others find good things.

But if any of you friends out there do not find the ideal in-law, or if you are like me realizing in addition that your own parents are not that great, I recommend to marry someone who is of the same mind as you about the situation. As difficult as it is having these people in the roles of what should be parents, it would be exponentially worse if I thought my parents are great and my husband disagreed (vice versa etc.). As it is, our marriage is strong and we feel God’s presence with us in it.
 

Akaky Akakievitch

Robin
Orthodox Catechumen
That's "Talk 13: Marriage: Agony or Blessedness?" I haven't listened to that yet. Sounds good. I love how Fr Kosmas shoots from the hip and makes everything so easy to understand.

Listening to it now, looks like he did a trio of talks about the married life from Talk 11 to 13. I think they are all available on his YT channel but on his website he made all of his talks free to download, so we can archive them too.

It's a hard truth that it may take someone years of prepping through the single life before actually getting married, but it seems there's no other way to do it - this is one of the main arguments I have inherited from these talks, although it was evident to me before.

Actually I was reading the other day about the Nofap timeline, of the various phases people go through, and they don't consider someone truly free of porn addiction until at least 2 years of abstinence, so that multi-year paradigm ties in here too. This might be a good question to ask any potential spouse: "When did you last watch pornography?" - if it is within the past two years, that would be something to focus on.

Either you struggle while you are alone and build a foundation slowly from there, or potentially risk locking in your BS, insecurity and half-soaked habits within the marriage that will last a lifetime. There's always a chance it can get better if things started out on the wrong foot, but if we have the advantage of time and the right perspective to make those changes today, it would be foolish to do otherwise. I'm now coming to realise this, after a recent fall, how fragile my faith is and how much I need to stay the course and press on. If I fall while in this current state then it will be ten times worse when inside any marriage, arguably.

He makes a good point in these talks, i think he mentions it a few times, about how immature and underdeveloped the modern-day westerners are relative to our ancestors. No surprises there... but he says how in villages and more obscure territories today we see marriages take place in the late teens, it isn't considered strange either. However, our culture is so child-like and immature that it will likely take someone a decade or so longer to reach that same level of adult responsibility, that these more remote populations find at an earlier age, as many of our ancestors also did. Getting married in your teens or early 20's is now the exception whereas it used to be the rule in days of yore.

I'd also say that if someone isn't actively trying to cultivate virtue and increase their faith while living in this world that is so hostile towards it, then they shouldn't be considered too seriously. While we can't be perfect before entering a marriage, I think that's worth stating (if you were perfect what would be the point of it?), we can aim towards it, and that's the most we could ask for of any potential spouse.

Also, Priestmonk Kosmas might be the closest Orthodox version of EMJ that we have. I think they share that same tenacity and straight-talking manner that was more common in their generation. I'd pay to watch a debate between those two, sparks would fly.
 

Despoina

Pigeon
Woman
Orthodox
The article came off a little jaded, and seemed to be divisive. Hopefully the field in psychology was not at a level of counseling.
Im not one to police someone’s tone. My criteria is: is the information presented here true or not? Because I can’t argue or debate feelings. I’ll just acknowledge and affirm your feelings but what did you think about the information presented? Yes she is in the field of counseling.

What she presented has merit. Most of what she presented concisely summarizes two books considered groundbreaking on predatory men.

One is “The Gift of Fear” by Gavin de Becker.
This book is an invaluable resource for women. The fourth chapter by itself is worth the price of the book alone.

Another “Why Does He do That? Inside the minds of Angry Controlling Men.” by Lundy Bancroft.

While some of these red flags are legit, articles like these tend to paint a picture that all men are predators and are no better than feminist articles that promote a war of the sexes.

Bold statement, again how does this article condemn all men(!) as predators?
 

MrsD

Pigeon
Woman
Orthodox
Listening to it now, looks like he did a trio of talks about the married life from Talk 11 to 13. I think they are all available on his YT channel but on his website he made all of his talks free to download, so we can archive them too.

It's a hard truth that it may take someone years of prepping through the single life before actually getting married, but it seems there's no other way to do it - this is one of the main arguments I have inherited from these talks, although it was evident to me before.

Actually I was reading the other day about the Nofap timeline, of the various phases people go through, and they don't consider someone truly free of porn addiction until at least 2 years of abstinence, so that multi-year paradigm ties in here too. This might be a good question to ask any potential spouse: "When did you last watch pornography?" - if it is within the past two years, that would be something to focus on.

Either you struggle while you are alone and build a foundation slowly from there, or potentially risk locking in your BS, insecurity and half-soaked habits within the marriage that will last a lifetime. There's always a chance it can get better if things started out on the wrong foot, but if we have the advantage of time and the right perspective to make those changes today, it would be foolish to do otherwise. I'm now coming to realise this, after a recent fall, how fragile my faith is and how much I need to stay the course and press on. If I fall while in this current state then it will be ten times worse when inside any marriage, arguably.

He makes a good point in these talks, i think he mentions it a few times, about how immature and underdeveloped the modern-day westerners are relative to our ancestors. No surprises there... but he says how in villages and more obscure territories today we see marriages take place in the late teens, it isn't considered strange either. However, our culture is so child-like and immature that it will likely take someone a decade or so longer to reach that same level of adult responsibility, that these more remote populations find at an earlier age, as many of our ancestors also did. Getting married in your teens or early 20's is now the exception whereas it used to be the rule in days of yore.

I'd also say that if someone isn't actively trying to cultivate virtue and increase their faith while living in this world that is so hostile towards it, then they shouldn't be considered too seriously. While we can't be perfect before entering a marriage, I think that's worth stating (if you were perfect what would be the point of it?), we can aim towards it, and that's the most we could ask for of any potential spouse.

Also, Priestmonk Kosmas might be the closest Orthodox version of EMJ that we have. I think they share that same tenacity and straight-talking manner that was more common in their generation. I'd pay to watch a debate between those two, sparks would fly.
Not the point of OP's thread but I doubt Fr Kosmas would debate. His goal is not to wrangle with heterodox. Orthodoxy is not about scholasticism In the way Catholicism is.

Yes. My husband often says that one’s core spiritual life is more difficult to raise after marriage. This isn’t a slight to the wife, just acknowledging that as Paul said married life is focused on the other person, and if as a man one has not gained strength in Christ before marriage, that relationship between the single and God is just different than the married and his whole household (wife, children if they are so blessed etc) are affected.

I love being married and it is a sacrament like monasticism so I am not saying dont get married but if one thinks a little it becomes clear I think why for those who can and want to seek the highest they try to go the route of monasticism. If one is not married doing like Roosh says and “faith maxing” is a goal that helps you and any potential spouse and children. It is not only imperative for marital success but more importantly for salvation which of course is the whole thing we are doing here right?
 

Akaky Akakievitch

Robin
Orthodox Catechumen
Not the point of OP's thread but I doubt Fr Kosmas would debate. His goal is not to wrangle with heterodox. Orthodoxy is not about scholasticism In the way Catholicism is.

No I was side-tracking there, I'd just listened to a debate today with EMJ and thought how it would be like a heavyweight contest if they debated. I'm sure they'd agree on many things for this topic.

Yes. My husband often says that one’s core spiritual life is more difficult to raise after marriage. This isn’t a slight to the wife, just acknowledging that as Paul said married life is focused on the other person, and if as a man one has not gained strength in Christ before marriage, that relationship between the single and God is just different than the married and his whole household (wife, children if they are so blessed etc) are affected.

I love being married and it is a sacrament like monasticism so I am not saying dont get married but if one thinks a little it becomes clear I think why for those who can and want to seek the highest they try to go the route of monasticism. If one is not married doing like Roosh says and “faith maxing” is a goal that helps you and any potential spouse and children. It is not only imperative for marital success but more importantly for salvation which of course is the whole thing we are doing here right?

Aiming to always increase your faith and build on the virtues will put you in a much greater stead compared to a lukewarm approach. I've heard secular job-seeking advice go something like: "Act like you have the job before you get hired" - the same applies in the spiritual life and with the sacrament of marriage. Act like a responsible husband and father before you get married and have children of your own.

In one of these talks, Fr Kosmas also mentions the possibility of pursuing a single life, I think that gets snubbed most of the time because it seems unachievable, but for some people, being married is not suitable and the monastic life is too much for them. Although there's a debate to be had there on how feasible that is in this modern world, with constant temptations and corruptness all around, you would have to be very self-disciplined to do it well and have a tight bond with the spiritual father. It might be worth assessing someone in this manner, whether they are actually suited for marriage at all. They may need to realise a different path before doing harm later on down the road.
 

budoslavic

Eagle
Orthodox
Gold Member
Ladies, imagine courting by this guy (hypothetically, of course).



FU_QoxLXEAIpTmN


Edit.

 
Last edited:
Top