What are you trying to conserve?

Grey

Sparrow
Conservation has been confused with the word preservation in too many instances.
Yeah, you're right. The word conservativism isn't wrong, it's just understood wrong.

That reminds me of one thing that really gets me, the left-wing co-opting of environmentalism. Conservationalism is a very conservative action, including in modern politics. As much as they blunder on about it hippies and vegans rarely ever conserved anything natural. Hunting and forestry associations do though.


All the culture we now have collected wasn't part of a collection before. It had real ties to real life in real places for real people. It wasn't an inventory, with a search bar, for buffet like consumption.
Chesterton wrote that all quality organic culture was local peasant culture, and urban folks just appropriated collections of it for themselves. The cosmopolitan considers themselves cultures merely because they consume many cultures, the local peasant actually creates his culture himself.

I think he had a point.

I don't mind the occasional museum, but mass media culture has not been good for organic cultural growth.
 

kel

Pelican
That reminds me of one thing that really gets me, the left-wing co-opting of environmentalism. Conservationalism is a very conservative action, including in modern politics. As much as they blunder on about it hippies and vegans rarely ever conserved anything natural. Hunting and forestry associations do though.
Strongly agreed. That's why we ended up with global warming being the core "environmental" issue - it's a fairy dust thing that can be bureaucratized forever and urbanites can tell themselves they're doing something about it by buying this coffee instead of that coffee and voting for more tithes. The right completely ceded the ground on environmentalism, so we're saddled with global warming hysteria on one side, and "lulz, drill baby drill, I bought a $32k SUV I'm paying 9% interest on TO PWN DA LIBS!" cringe shit on the other. Horrifying.

Interesting article about Earth First somewhat along these lines: https://counter-currents.com/2020/01/leftward-drift-and-radical-ecology-part-1/
 

tractor

Sparrow
Growing up, I never thought much about the meaning of the word conservative.
Neither did I. By default, you think conservatism basically equals traditionalism. But looking at the modern conservatism in the West - nah...

You have gay conservatives *honk honk*
Then you have all these supposedly conservative childless career women like Coulter and Lahren *honk honk*
Although there're calls to defund Planned Parenthood, Roe v. Wade seems to be alive and well. Trump's judges dindunuffin about that. *honk honk*

So, conservatism nowadays means conserving the short time span beginning with the summer of love and ending just before the pedo tranny degeneracy took root. Sodomites turn conservative because they feel they're not the favorite puppet of the left anymore, not because they repent of their vile sodomy. "Conservative women" reject illegal migration and are tough on tranny bathrooms but they are very comfortable with their financial independence (from the patriarch).

Funny thing is, I think conservatism looked differently in the 50s. But because the conservatives prefer to hide their heads in the sand when the shit hits the fan, the bar has been lowered to the point that Pete Bootyjudge could theoretically switch to the Republicans and the RNC would be proud to nominate him for the presidency (to own the libs).
 
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Athanasius

Kingfisher
Any word, no longer how good, will be corrupted eventually and made to mean its opposite. "Love," in our day, has become in some corners a euphemism for degenerate sex. "Science" means speculation and belief in absurdity. "Reason" is believing in something unmoored from an epistemological basis. Evangelical used to be a word that had an understood meaning, but now we have occasional "evangelicals" who deny the evangel (gospel).

Any word you use eventually has to be defined.
 
I think the offensive should be adopted. This "conserve" attitude is a recoil, a defensive and exposed position. It's what got us into this hairy mess with identity politics and all the other assorted bullshit. I live in a bubble I guess, of my own reality. But it is an anti-bolshevik bubble, and wherever I am, there is no bolshevism, and nothing that stems from bolshevism. No groid worship, no semitic preferences, no self-hatred, no ratting on my neighbors, don't talk to women unless they are in the way of something I need to get done, no apologies, and no lying, cheating, or stealing, unless it is to a bolshevik or a servant thereof. What there is, is decency, respect of my parents despite how different I am from them, daily prayers, and focusing on God's mission, which he has for all of us. I have many flaws, but find me one human without such traits and I will acquiesce to their moral highness.

The right mindset and framework to live your life is that of one who is not affected by this modern (aka satanic) world, which is no easy feat. I am not a luddite, but I spread my anti-tech message to most people because it is against nature to have something so invading to even act as a sort of net over our lives. I suppose I will stop posting here one day, when I feel my sentiments are shared by a larger majority, if so.
 
The only workable solution is having fewer kids. That's not in human nature to accept.

I think even those who subscribe to Alex Jones "they're making the frogs gay" conspiracy theories acknowledge that population is an issue but their way of dealing with it is focusing on fearing dystopian solutions while ignoring the fact the masses won't have fewer kids. I mean, maybe there'd be no motivation to resort to Soylent Green or other nightmarish solutions if the masses actually thought beyond their own selfish wants, but no. Tragedy of the Commons.

So we've met the enemy and it's us, but how this will go down is in a blaze of finger-pointing.
 

NoMoreTO

Ostrich
This is sprayed on soybeans and cowcorn, so it is in your food supply. I know this because I began farming, and it was a question I had to ask before putting in alfalfa. Even though it would have been the previous year, the atrazine stays in the ground. People who grow vegetables also have to avoid land that has atrazine in it. I'm not sure for how many years, perhaps only 1.

I'd like to see our farms strengthened. Right now there are just too many farmers producing beans and corn, just harvesting massive amounts of land for a small profit to feed our industrial food system. The land is precious, and if there were more small farms and farmers, it would really make us more resilient, along with it just being a natural way of life. Farms are getting bought up on mass by huge farmers and sometimes even corporate interests as hedge funds look for a new investment. I like the old way where land was distributed across alot of families. There were all kinds of farmers kids when I grew up, now even in this small town, its alot less common.

On a personal level I'd like to see family land stay in the family and not be sold to the highest bidder.
 
Political change is inevitable and cyclical: Conservatives wish the change to be slow; Progressives wish the change to be fast. Each of their efforts equates to influencing the magnitude, but not the direction of the political climate.

The Oppressed --> Revolution --> Freedom and Prosperity --> Gradual Decline --> Become The Oppressor to Prevent Decline -->
The Oppressed --> Revolution-->...

Conservatives prefer to start at "Freedom and Prosperity" and slow down "Gradual Decline"
Progressives prefer to start at "The Oppressed" and speed up "Revolution"
Neither wants to become the "The Oppressor", but they will.
Both do not realize it's a circular board they play on.
 
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estraudi

Kingfisher
Gold Member
What this country doesn't need is conservatives interested in conserving the last scraps of their rights, but instead needs patriots to fight for what they've already lost.
 
Neither did I. By default, you think conservatism basically equals traditionalism. But looking at the modern conservatism in the West - nah...
The word traditionalism is nearly as hijacked as the word conservativism. Or at least, in Christianity, self-identified trads often have a conception of traditionalism that goes back no further than the baroque period.

Of course, if we're going by what words should mean, liberals should be in favor of liberty. I don't have a good solution for the utter meaninglessness of words as their definitions change over time.
 

Grey

Sparrow
The problems with conservativism conserving rather than creating is old. Chesterton pointed it out a century ago. He predicted the problems that Tractor highlighted.

Interesting article about Earth First somewhat along these lines: https://counter-currents.com/2020/01/leftward-drift-and-radical-ecology-part-1/
That's a good counter-currents article. The left always wants solutions where they do meaningless gestures and someone else solves the problem. But the contrarian right is a problem in and of itself, like you said the drill baby drill right.


The word traditionalism is nearly as hijacked as the word conservativism. Or at least, in Christianity, self-identified trads often have a conception of traditionalism that goes back no further than the baroque period.

Of course, if we're going by what words should mean, liberals should be in favor of liberty. I don't have a good solution for the utter meaninglessness of words as their definitions change over time.
Traditionalism never did actually mean 'Return to Christendom'. Even a century ago it meant a kind of hybrid of evolutionary-psycology and pseudo-eastern mysticism with a vauge tolerance and general disdain for Christianity. Think of the pre-Fascist traditionalist philosophers. Think of Evola and Spengler. If they even go back to the Baroque period they've gone deeper than most. Traditionalism tends to be an ironically modern philosophy.

Liberalism always was anarchism and anti-Christ. It's liberty from human bonds, from community, from moral obligation, and from God. It's just that not enough people asked 'free from what' and 'to do what'. Better writers than me called liberalism the universal solvent, it exists to dissolve ties of blood, kin, faith, and nation. And it does nothing else.

A lot of times words change less than we think.
 

deano

Newbie
I will speak a few languages in the home with my children.

I'm American and only speak English fluently. Have been studying German for a long while and and am getting good. I won't start a family for many years. When I do, I want to be able to speak:
  • English (native)
  • German (fluently)
  • French (fluently)
  • A lot of Italian
  • Some Mandarin
  • perhaps others
 

Max Roscoe

Kingfisher
The sad thing is, a lot of conservatives really do think that the arts are unimportant, but they are not.
Art will always exist. The question is do you support and encourage art which glorifies God, magnifies beauty, and reinforces positive messages, or do you just throw up your hands and say "let the Mahhkets Decide"? There will be art, even if it is graffiti on buildings, drum beatings, rap about fornication, and PissEarth. That's what you get when you remove your values and tradition from art.
 

deano

Newbie
@deano, are you planning to speak all those languages with your kids?

I've often wondered how someone would go about that. Maybe one language for each day of the week, or something like that?
Yes, I want to speak them all with the kids. I don't have a plan, yet, for how I will go about doing it. Maybe I'll do what you said and schedule it by day.

Another option is to let it flow and just make sure to switch it up. All those languages sound quite different from each other, so I think the kids would be able to make the distinction.

I also want to teach them a lot about their ancestry. For example, I'm a quarter German. Germans have an awesome history. I want them to know about that (and their other nationalities)... know a lot and be proud + feel connected.
 
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